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77 Comments
- Culyt, on 09/15/2008, -1/+20Just about every operation that you do in the console can be done in a GUI in Ubuntu (about the only exception is when your video drivers die), most people will give console commands because its much quicker that way. conf file editing can be done in gedit if launched from a nautilus running as root.
Its easier to say:
1) 'apt-get install blah'
2) when thats done type 'blah -dowhatver 3'
or even just 'apt-get install blah && blah -dowhatever'
The alternative is:
1) goto system>administraion>synaptic, click it
2) search for 'blah'
3) select install
4) click whatever
5) click next
6) agree to dependencies
7) next
8) goto Applications>Utilites>blah in the menu, click it
9) Click "Do Something"
10) Click "Do Whatever"
11) Enter 3
12) Click ok
Its also more flexible, its the difference between playing with Lego or a prebuilt toy. The prebuilt toy will only ever be or do 1 thing and look the same. with Lego you can turn then into whatever your imagination wants (until your missing that damn piece that you just saw 10 minutes ago). If you want to find all the packages you installed between 2 dates that are of a specific size, you can do that, you just need to learn how to use dpkg to dump the raw packages, then something like sed to parse the output. Its not easy but once you learn those tools they will be invaluable and usable for heaps of other situations.
The other thing is that its easier to troubleshoot the command line, if a GUI is ***** up you have no idea if its the GUI, or the program underthehood. Your also dependent on the amount of detail the GUI chooses to give you about the error.
If you are avoiding the command line, you are crippling your computer abilities. Obviously granny won't want the command line, but granny isn't likely to be setting up an ssh server.
☢ - abbathdoom, on 09/15/2008, -2/+15Finally a guide by someone who doesnt expect people to learn the terminal. That's just not going to happen, no matter how many times you tell me its quicker and easier than GUI.
- colonelxc, on 09/15/2008, -2/+15It's quicker and easier than GUI.
- duncanbell, on 09/15/2008, -0/+12"7. To see the weather in your current location you need to configure the clock applet from the panel
Right click the clock, select Preferences go to the Location tab and add yours."
My way is quicker, I look out of the window. It's usually pretty accurate. - phatboye, on 09/15/2008, -7/+17Console >>> GUI. Learn to use the console and you'll love it. Once you newbies break that old GUI ball and chain you'll never go back. =)
- apothekari, on 09/14/2008, -0/+7"And yes i know that I'm not going to get dugg because i don't have an established domain / or a big fanbase behind me. Meh. this is digg this days."
Don't sell yourself short there CoolGoose I not only Dugg I bookmarked the site.
Besides us Linux folks are used to being in the minority.
"We move though the corridors of the technological society like a stainless steel rat."-Harry Harrison - wonderbriefs, on 09/15/2008, -6/+13Once the Linux community realizes that most desktop users value a smooth experience and would rather gouge their eyes out than type in a text-based command console then maybe Ubuntu would be more accepted and not need defense articles.
- Spamiclese, on 09/15/2008, -1/+7Yeah! Who wants to use a console in Linux anyways...
- derkles, on 09/14/2008, -1/+7I use NFS shares/exports between my Mac and Linux boxes. Works way faster than CIFS/SMB and is a breeze to setup.
- WoollyMittens, on 09/15/2008, -0/+6Wow. Useful tips and they'r not spread over 20 pages of ads. Cheers!
- tvanwyk, on 09/15/2008, -1/+6Yeah. What kind of ***** idiot would want to use the most powerful shell in the history of computing!?
The nerve of people these days... - inactive, on 09/14/2008, -0/+5[FTA] The problem is that it doesn't tell you that you have to login/logout to be able to share folders after that (i really don't know if this is a bug),
I like it that way..
File share log in is safe and painless. If you want to share between 2 office computers then create a user account for each pc and a password (fairly painless as an admin will already have a list. this user account can be used across all pc's as a default service account so each pc will be able to 1 account if you think that works. e.g lan-user .. passw. ). This guarantees that only those granted access can use that share. If at home just log in using the computers user account and password that you intend to access, once again this is safer as anyone getting in behind the network from outside the LAN cannot access that PC only the people who know the password and user account name. It does ask for a windows password but hitting enter (boom boom) will work regardless as windows shares are typically by default open access unless you tell it otherwise..(ahh and they complain that IT vendors charge so much).
Linux/ MAC Samba file share system is getting better and faster. It beats the opposition hands down for security, accuracy, specifications and ease of use and deployment. - JQP123, on 09/15/2008, -0/+5"Just because it involves typing and - horror of horrors - using both hands (instead of fervently moving the mouse) doesn't mean it's difficult."
Typing isn't the problem. Knowing "what to type" is the problem.
To most ordinary users, the computer is just a tool ... not their best friend. Frankly, they just don't care enough about it to spend time memorizing and manipulating an endless stream of very precise commands and switches. In their judgment, it's a waste of valuable time and even more so once they've been exposed to alternatives that allow them to be reasonably productive with less effort. - isunktheship, on 09/15/2008, -1/+6Blasphemy. BURN THE HERETIC!
- WoollyMittens, on 09/15/2008, -0/+5You're
- sodade, on 09/15/2008, -1/+6"Learn the console?" WTF? How do you learn the console? Different applications have console commands associated with them - do you mean "learn the console commands for every app you use that lacks a GUI option for those commands (likely because some coder didn't feel like making one)?"
If the HC linux geeks really wanted other people to "learn" these commands (and their options), then maybe when they were posting a tutorial on how to do something in the CLI, instead of just listing out a series of CLI commands, they would ***** EXPLAIN THE GODDAMN COMMAND SO PEOPLE CAN LEARN. - djchester, on 09/15/2008, -0/+5Dugg for StartUp-Manager!
- Exekutor, on 09/15/2008, -4/+8"yay, no console editing"
Where's the fun then? - CoolGoose, on 09/15/2008, -0/+3Yes, but from experience actual users get scared on starting that. Also you can't just say apt-get install blah. You have to say Applications > Terminal first
- selrahc, on 09/15/2008, -0/+3There are no windows in the basement, what are you talking about?
- Swipecat, on 09/15/2008, -0/+3Whoa! Don't enable backports permanently. The packages there are intended for the next version of the distro, but are compiled using the libraries from the current distro -- and are for those who have a particular reason for wanting an up-to-date version of a given app and are prepared to accept the possible unreliability of a package that hasn't had integration testing. Use backports for single apps -- but a full update with backports enabled might well introduce a scattering of bugs.
- Katana314, on 09/15/2008, -0/+3Heck, I dug it just because he doesn't seem to have an army of auto-Diggers.
- OneLess, on 09/15/2008, -0/+3Dugg up for radioactive comment.
- tvanwyk, on 09/15/2008, -0/+3Well-said.
Another problem is when trying to provide help on forums. I rarely give GUI instructions simply because the average person asking for help rarely mentions what GUI he's even using. Now, to get him to open up the Network Configuration GUI tool, do I assume GNOME or do I assume KDE? Or do I just provide overly-detailed click by click recipes for all available GUIs?
Or do I provide one ***** command and be done with it? - dazparkour, on 09/15/2008, -0/+3You mean "Copy and paste commands that they tell you to enter", - it is easier, it's harder to get a copy and paste wrong than it is to get a series of clicks wrong.
- jaikob, on 09/15/2008, -0/+3I've always wondered why I would lose my copied text after closing the window. Pissed me off. Great Article!
- arjie, on 09/15/2008, -0/+2A better acronym than Boot Up Manager!
- selrahc, on 09/15/2008, -0/+2While I love the command line there are a lot of problems with it. My main annoyance is differing command line switches. In most commands "command -r whatever" will work recursively on a directory, but some commands will only work recursively if you use "command -R whatever". Usually the command switches make a lot of sense with a little context but there are a few that stray from convention and so you have a mental list in you head saying "These switches do this 90% of the time except when using Command X and Command Y".
A great example of this is if you have a couple of computers running SSH servers behind a router and have one of them running on another port. In order to change the port in SSH it is pretty straightforward, just type in 'ssh -p 2345 example.com'. Now comes the fun part, to do it in SCP you have to type 'scp -P 2345 example.com' and in SFTP you have to type 'sftp -oPort=2345 example.com'. I think it is pretty crazy that the three programs included in the SSH package all have different commands for changing the port. - sodade, on 09/15/2008, -2/+4Not having a GUI equivalent for a command line operation is just lazy.
- Sabretou, on 09/15/2008, -0/+2It's quicker and easier than GUI.
- JQP123, on 09/15/2008, -0/+2"Once you newbies break that old GUI ball and chain you'll never go back."
Ummm, if we had a continuous stream of articles and posts here reinforcing this viewpoint, what percentage of ordinary users do you think will become converts? My guess is near zero but feel free to prove me wrong. - WoollyMittens, on 09/15/2008, -1/+3Let me know when you become useful.
- rowjimmy, on 09/16/2008, -0/+1because they will conflict with other commands? please list a single typo in any unix command, i'd be interested to see if you aren't just talking out of your ass. in terms of them being "long" that is far from the case - i think in every case, every option etc is very necessary. take your aliases - "install" already is a unix command, so you've potentially screwed up a whole bunch of stuff by aliasing that to "sudo apt-get install" (try installing something from source and watch it fail). same with "update", etc etc etc. taking your example - "sudo apt-get install " - the sudo is necessary to temporarily give the user su rights. apt-get is the name of the utility, which makes perfect sense as you are "getting" software via the apt system. install means install. making aliases like you have done is VERY bad practice - not just because it breaks other stuff, but because then you don't preserve the semantic hierarchy of commands, making them far more confusing for anybody but you. fair enough if you alone are using the system (and you don't mind breaking a bunch of other ***** because you are too lazy to type a few characters) but horrible horrible practices, and you have no ***** idea what you are talking about if you say these should be default.
ps you can use tab to "complete" a command - so "sudo apt-get install " becomes "sud"-tab "apt-g"-tab "in"-tab - rowjimmy, on 09/16/2008, -0/+1even with a desktop system, it is faster to mv ~/Desktop/some_porno.avi ~/Videos/pictures_of_kittens_dont_look_here_honey/ than it is to open up a file-manager and move the file wherever.
the only guis that make good sense are text-editors (not for updating a config file, but for writing documents/programs) and some programs (im, web-browser, torrents, video-player, etc) - but in terms of navigating around your computer and managing services, a gui is almost always crippling. - Ademan, on 09/15/2008, -0/+1Let me be clear, I use vim and less far more than gedit (quickly viewing files was the last holdout gedit had on my machine), bash more than gnome's panels, and find more than tracker.
*however* I don't think that it's a bad thing to have gui equivalents for command line tools, and wrapping plain text config, it makes things more accessible, because no matter what, the GUI *is* friendlier to newbies, or at least feels safer to them. - mikedoth, on 09/15/2008, -0/+1If your using it as a desktop system then you probably don't. If as a server, then yes. I personally don't want to unless I have to.
- TeamBaldwin, on 09/16/2008, -0/+1"A simple sentence or two that explains what the command, it's parameters and switches actually mean - give me that, and I'll actually learn something - not to mention being able to troubleshoot if something goes wrong."
-h and/or --help are generally accepted by all cli based programs. I've yet to find a program that didn't have some basic help from one of those switches. (Excluding windows)
How about an example..
andrew@kubuntu64:/$ rm --help
Usage: rm [OPTION]... FILE...
Remove (unlink) the FILE(s).
-f, --force ignore nonexistent files, never prompt
-i prompt before every removal
-I prompt once before removing more than three files, or
when removing recursively. Less intrusive than -i,
while still giving protection against most mistakes
--interactive[=WHEN] prompt according to WHEN: never, once (-I), or
always (-i). Without WHEN, prompt always
--one-file-system when removing a hierarchy recursively, skip any
directory that is on a file system different from
that of the corresponding command line argument
--no-preserve-root do not treat `/' specially
--preserve-root do not remove `/' (default)
-r, -R, --recursive remove directories and their contents recursively
-v, --verbose explain what is being done
--help display this help and exit
--version output version information and exit
By default, rm does not remove directories. Use the --recursive (-r or -R)
option to remove each listed directory, too, along with all of its contents.
To remove a file whose name starts with a `-', for example `-foo',
use one of these commands:
rm -- -foo
rm ./-foo
Note that if you use rm to remove a file, it is usually possible to recover
the contents of that file. If you want more assurance that the contents are
truly unrecoverable, consider using shred - mikedoth, on 09/15/2008, -0/+1Is there a gui for a drive manager?
- rowjimmy, on 09/16/2008, -0/+1ignorant and proud of it. at least you're in good company, with the other 98% of jackasses out there.
- JQP123, on 09/15/2008, -0/+1"I think it is pretty crazy that the three programs included in the SSH package all have different commands for changing the port."
The CLI is really oriented toward programmer (*not* end user) efficiency. Most of the interface burden is on the end user who must learn and adapt to the programmer's whims ... as in your example.
The GUI meets the end user about half way. The programmer assumes responsibility for a consistent and uniform presentation using standard visual cues, devices and graphics. The end user must still identify, understand and manipulate the provided cues.
Hopefully in the not too distant future, we'll start to see "Star Trek" style natural language interfaces where most of the interface burden is placed on the computer.
In any case, there is a clear and unmistakeable technological progression taking place with regard to user/computer interaction. And no amount of "nay saying" is going to stop or turn back the clock. - rowjimmy, on 09/16/2008, -0/+1@sodade - pretty much any command you can do command --help or command -h to get a list of all the options, parameters, inputs, etc. also man command will give a more detailed manual page. if you don't know what command to use, there are a lot of forums out there discussing unix-like operating systems - just search for what you want to do (e.g., "sort unique on particular column" or whatever)
edit - whoops, kept getting some invalid token errors, and when it finally posted i didn't see teambaldwin said pretty much what i said. anybody who says they command line is not well documented simply isn't looking. you can admit you're lazy & don't want to learn, or that you hate typing, or whatever - but unix-like commands are really well documented, and there are a lot of sources out there for whatever particular task you want to do. - tvanwyk, on 09/16/2008, -0/+1@mikedoth
I don't? What, I don't want to use Bash? Speak for yourself. Or better yet, ask my .bash_history.
Shake off your reflexive fear of the command line, take 2 minutes a day to do a bit of learning, and you'll find just how much time you can save with a pinch of bash here and there. I say this as a person who boots some of my Linux boxes into GUIs everyday. GUIs make sense for some things. Granted. I use GUI apps daily.
But the worst legacy of Microsoft taking over the desktop/workstation market is that it has made an entire end-user base completely afraid of their ***** keyboards - simply because they automatically equate command line hacking as "difficult" and GUI-based "solutions" as "easy." - frostw, on 09/15/2008, -0/+1Not for my granny it isn't
- marybaboo, on 09/19/2008, -0/+1GUI is for pussies!
Terminal/Nano all the way!
By the way, get your countdown to Intrepid Ibex here: http://doiop.com/Ibex-Countdown - sodade, on 09/15/2008, -0/+1"What do you want, some Video Professor ***** on using Bash?"
A simple sentence or two that explains what the command, it's parameters and switches actually mean - give me that, and I'll actually learn something - not to mention being able to troubleshoot if something goes wrong. - tvanwyk, on 09/16/2008, -0/+1Look around Digg some and you'll notice a theme.
- databeast, on 09/17/2008, -1/+2google me, then get back to me about that.
- tvanwyk, on 09/16/2008, -0/+1@JQP
With an answer like that you'd think I was asking people to memorize the first 1000 digits of pi or train themselves to recite and interpret the first 1000 quatrains of Nostradamus's Prophecies.
If people have a problem with learning stuff like "mv source.file dest.file" or "rm filename.porn" then humanity truly is *****. It's not about "not knowing what to type." It's laziness or fear. CLI thinking may be a bit different than click-monkeyism, but it's not difficult once you get past the mental block. - tvanwyk, on 09/16/2008, -0/+1You know, I was going to digg you up until I saw that ridiculous "Mongoloid" comment.
- johndavidjack, on 09/15/2008, -0/+1@JQP123
"To most ordinary users, the computer is just a tool ... not their best friend."
Eh, my computer is nothing close to my best friend, and I'm pretty damn proficient on it... -
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