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108 Comments
- judicar, on 12/04/2008, -2/+42The author seems to think that they are having to pay $725 for each seat, the $725 is for a support contract for all systems in the cafe. A decent deal by most standards. But, hey, why spend 30 seconds researching a story when vitriol sells more adds.
From the Wiki:
"This system is provided with a non-expiring support contract at the cost of 5000 yuan for all machines in the cafe" - balaknair, on 12/03/2008, -2/+25Ironic, when you think of the goals of FOSS and the GPL.
There is nothing free about 'Red Flag Linux' (neither free as in 'Free Beer', nor as in 'Freedom'). And is it actually open source? If not, what do you think of the possibility that it contains 'secret' code that enables the Chinese government to spy on its citizens(more than it already does)? And it offers nothing to the community, instead depriving many of their their livelihoods and rights.
Though given China's stellar human rights record and its history of concern for its citizens, I can't say it's out of character for them. - eraccusa, on 12/03/2008, -4/+27Apparently this will be the Chinese government's new way of attempting to stop China's citizens from getting access to information from outside China. They can't beat technology, so they will shut it down with draconian fees and laws. There is nothing more fearful to tyrants than a people with access to "free" information and means of forcibly changing government. The Chinese people that can get access to outside information over the internet already have the first part of the solution. Unfortunately, they are, as far as I am aware, an unarmed populace. So, changing their government to one more amenable to freedom will be the harder part.
- MrApocalypse, on 12/04/2008, -1/+21Yes, the world consists only of China, the US and Europe.
- jeevesatvic, on 12/04/2008, -2/+21I don't think this article was intended as a reading comprehension test, but a lot of commenters seem to be failing it.
- samiti, on 12/04/2008, -0/+17Supported by a different version of the article here:
http://www.pcworld.com/article/154841/chinese_cafe ... - crunchdigg, on 12/04/2008, -1/+17buried for:
1) misleading title. The government there is not trying to market linux.
The title might as well have been: "bad way to drive a car, make people pay $725 for Linux"
2) total lack of reading comprehension by 90 percent of diggers. - SteelFrog, on 12/04/2008, -0/+10What's wrong with your 'Enter' key?
- MWeather, on 12/04/2008, -0/+10Red Flag Linux is free. You can download it from their website. I think the author is confused over the difference between buying Red Flag, and buying Red Flag support.
- IphtashuFitz, on 12/04/2008, -0/+8Did you bother to RTFA? The Chinese government is giving these internet cafes two choices: Either buy Windows or buy Red Flag linux, both at fairly high prices (for these mom & pop shops). They don't have the option of running any of the free versions of linux. The conspiracy theories are that the Chinese government has put backdoors in these two offerings so that they can keep an even closer eye on internet users.
- Phocion55, on 12/04/2008, -1/+8Is this trolling in the form of a haiku?
- jeevesatvic, on 12/04/2008, -0/+7Did you read the article? They don't *have* the option of using a freeware version of linux. They are only allowed to use Windows or a $725 version of linux. And in reality, it doesn't appear they are actually letting them use Windows.
- knowitall, on 12/04/2008, -0/+6WTF?
You gotta be kidding.. right? - martalli, on 12/04/2008, -1/+7I have read two articles on the subject, and that is the gist as I read it. You can only use Windows or Red Flag. I suspect they have backdoors written in for the government to snoop. If you were using debian (or really almost any linux distro) there would probably be no backdoor.
- Totz83, on 12/04/2008, -1/+7•Needs
•moar
•bullet
•points - inactive, on 12/04/2008, -0/+6chinese food
- funkyloki, on 12/04/2008, -0/+6Me thinks this is the person who created the meme "All your bases are belong to us."
- ModeSeven, on 12/04/2008, -0/+5That's either made up or one of those crazy 300 year old laws nobody bothered to change. I've lived in England all my life and I've never heard this.
- bffoley, on 12/04/2008, -0/+5I love the mascot for Red Flag Linux: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/b/b8/Red_ ...
Tux, Savior of the Proletariat! - inactive, on 12/04/2008, -1/+6@dogparade
If you're anything to go by, all non-Americans can't capitalize, can't use periods, fail to type in complete sentences, and are generally douchebags. - mk3k, on 12/04/2008, -7/+12Westerners writing about Chinese policy is silly. Most of us have no understanding of what it would be like to be Chinese.
- tehbored, on 12/05/2008, -0/+5China is fascist, not communist, despite the name. I'm not defending communism, I'm just pointing that out.
- inactive, on 12/04/2008, -0/+4Politics Soup
- benighted, on 12/04/2008, -1/+5what did you eat last night
- inactive, on 12/04/2008, -4/+8In england you have to pay for water that falls on your house even if you are not connected to the water supply
- absurdist, on 12/04/2008, -0/+4So in other words, what you're saying is you have no idea of what fascism is, other than "it's something vaguely bad and wrong."
- ruitaosu, on 12/04/2008, -0/+3The GPL License is here:
http://www.redflag-linux.com/xiazai/gpl.html
All the source codes are here:
http://www.redflag-linux.com/xiazai/yingyong.php?d ...
Yes I AM BRAIN WASHED, thank you. - eraccusa, on 12/04/2008, -1/+4I read this article and two others about this issue before I posted my response to SJVN's Digg here. Actually it is more significant than just "happening in the Jianxi province". From another article I read on the subject: "Nanchang, the capital of China's eastern Jiangxi province, has required Internet cafe operators to replace pirated server software with licensed versions. ..." That a capital city is where this is taking place has significance. Also from that same article: '... "You have to install Red Flag Linux, and pay 5,000 yuan," complained one user on the Jiangxi discussion forum (in Chinese). "If you are using a different Linux distribution, they just say it's pirated!" '.
I see this as a test case for their CLOSED source Enterprise Red Flag Linux by the Chinese government. Probably for more than one reason. One of the reasons being "legitimate" in that they have received many complaints about "software piracy" from the Microsoft controlled BSA. - tomjowitt, on 12/04/2008, -0/+3Yeah, we get taxed for pretty much everything here. The rain tax is probably the worst as we only usually get 3 days of sunshine a year.
- benighted, on 12/04/2008, -2/+5read the article,it's only happening in the Jiangxi province
the central goverment doesn't control everything - balaknair, on 12/04/2008, -0/+3My thoughts exactly. And it seems they're pressuring even people with legit copies of Windows to switch to Red Flag. And the Red Hat spokesperson apparently refused to comment about the snooping aspects of Red Flag
"Fan Hongguan, a spokesman for Beijing-based Red Flag Software company said the company had been marketing a version of the operating system with chat functions to Internet cafes for three years. Fan declined to comment on the surveillance allegations."
http://www.google.com/hostednews/ap/article/ALeqM5 ...
Of course the money involved would count as well, since the Red Flag company is part government owned(CCIDNET Investment, a VC arm of the Ministry of Information Industry is Red Flag's second largest shareholder).
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Red_Flag_Linux - hmphargh, on 12/04/2008, -0/+3Interesting what they are doing, but a terribly written article.
- mk3k, on 12/04/2008, -1/+4They already have a pretty effective lockdown on the internet. I don't think they are trying to lock it down they already have.
- wigren, on 12/04/2008, -0/+3You've never built your own any thing, and _your_ time is _not_ money.
- jonshipman, on 12/04/2008, -0/+3In unrelated news, Blizzard has announced World of Warcraft for Red Flag Linux.
- dasunst3r, on 12/04/2008, -0/+3You know what would be a fun idea if there is really censorware in Red Flag Linux? Let's use it outside China and start looking up "blasphemous" things like Falun Gong, Free Tibet, Tiananmen Square, and DEMOCRACY!
- ModeSeven, on 12/04/2008, -1/+4I'm pretty sure North Korea has all of them beat by a huge margin.
- plhofmei, on 12/04/2008, -0/+3Sounds like a tax on the Internet Cafe business, to me.
- eraccusa, on 12/04/2008, -1/+4'... "You have to install Red Flag Linux, and pay 5,000 yuan," complained one user on the Jiangxi discussion forum (in Chinese). "If you are using a different Linux distribution, they just say it's pirated!" '.
http://www.pcworld.com/article/154841/chinese_cafe ... - linagee, on 12/04/2008, -0/+2If they do actually pay, where does the money go? If they choose the windows route, does microsoft even see $0.01 of this? If they choose the linux route, does the money go to more FOSS software?
- eraccusa, on 12/04/2008, -0/+2No, because Haiku has a specific format and usually makes sense when read. :)
http://www.toyomasu.com/haiku/#whatishaiku - jeevesatvic, on 12/04/2008, -0/+2Note: this comment isn't directed at judicar above, who has a very valid point. It just happened to slot in after his comment.
- staeiou, on 12/04/2008, -1/+3Yes, that's the textbook definition of fascism.
- tehbored, on 12/05/2008, -0/+2Italy.
- cyb0rg2, on 12/04/2008, -0/+2the local goverment was just trying to bully internet cafes to make some money for themselves.
It's clear to me that you know nothing about Chinese poltics and also fail at reading comprehension - benighted, on 12/05/2008, -0/+2the local government's announcement on this matter were posted on the Chinese forum
people who know Chinese can go to check it out
http://bbs.jxcn.cn/dispbbs.asp?boardid=34&id=2 ...
it says any version of Linux is acceptable,but they recommend Red Flag linux. the price is just for the support of the system, if they have the ability to install it themselves then they can choose not to pay - LocalDocal, on 12/04/2008, -0/+2I can almost guarantee it's not open source. If it is, then someone could just take the code, compiled it, then offer the distro for free, and people could install that instead of paying a ludicrous price. Furthermore, I suspect a part of forcing this distro on people (aside from profit) is for some invasive measures, and making your software open source could compromise that (not to mention alert your intents to people).
Nonetheless, I still can't wrap my head around this. The people there can't even afford Windows and Microsoft sells Windows for a huge discount in China. On the other hand, the government for Nanchang apparently believes it can sell this Linux distro for more than Windows cost in America. - benighted, on 12/06/2008, -0/+2Yes,I'm Chinese,and are you trying to imply that I'm a CCP propagandist?
I never said corruption is the only problem in China, but in this case the money is definitely the main reason.
Internet cafes in China all require personal ID to log in and were installed with their own control systems,there is no need to install red flag Linux server to "control the information"
BTW:this article is also submitted to a popular Chinese website
http://www.cnbeta.com/articles/71501.htm
and if you are looking for the CCP's new way to control the infomation maybe this will help:http://newsgroups.derkeiler.com/Archive/Soc/soc.cu ...
http://www.asiaamerica.org/publications/cif/cif-04 ... - MWeather, on 12/04/2008, -0/+2"I can almost guarantee it's not open source. If it is, then someone could just take the code, compiled it, then offer the distro for free, and people could install that instead of paying a ludicrous price."
You mean like CentOS does with RHEL? - benighted, on 12/05/2008, -0/+2like I said the central government doesn't control everything.
it has more to do with the corruption ,not a experiment to turn china into the largest LAN in the world
the local government could have received bride from the company developing the red flag Linux, things like this happens in China almost everyday , many local government officials are just greedy bastards who will take any opportunity to make more money for themselves
and believe me CCP don't have the guts to do this in the whole country -
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