What is Digg?52 Comments
- ephemerae, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3wow, that article was remarkably free of content.
- 5blocksfree, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Nougat wrote: Linux was written by programmers for programmers. If you don't understand how to write code, you're going to have a tricky time with Linux.
More misinformation, I'm sorry to say. If you intall Ubuntu, or even Fedora, and stick with their package management system (with Fedora, it's yum), you won't have have to TOUCH anything to do with programming. Entering "yum update" in a shell has nothng to do with writing code. Not only that, but most configuration CAN be accomplished easily via various GUI tools. Understanding *what* you're configuring, and what the effect will be are different matters entirely. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Until the papal-like powers are removed from the bea$tly OEM bundlers other OS are always going to have to fight a little harder to bob above the surface of the water for attention.
The fight should be taken via the EFF to allow for a FREE CHOICE in what OS is installed on the computers for purchase.
Until then, the beast will always be ahead. - Nougat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I'm a Microsoft engineer, not a programmer or fanboy. I've been making some forays into various Linux distributions recently, and I have come to this conclusion:
Linux was written by programmers for programmers. If you don't understand how to write code, you're going to have a tricky time with Linux. Linux will not gain a great market share on the desktop until non-programmers are able to configure it easily - especially on home user desktops. - crunk, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Hmmm this article doesn't really say much, how many times have we heard "this year might be the year for desktop linux".... no digg :-
- wysiwia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1> The fight should be taken via the EFF to allow for a FREE CHOICE in what OS is installed on the computers for purchase.
Yes, just make the EFF aware of this!!!
Besides there's a more comforting message which agrees that cross-platform is the way to go.
http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000369.html - vonskippy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2What a Craptastic Headline. It's one schmo's opinion, not "The Truth".
I didn't think it was possible to make headlines that suck more then Slashdots, and then Digg arrived. - eastshores, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Eh... Linux is an OS where depending on who you are talking to, it either is hugely successful, or it is still trying to overcome its obstacles. Now.. read that sentence back and replace "linux" with Windows.. or Mac OSX.. and the statement should still hold true.
So why do we keep re-hashing this issue?? I swear 6 years ago I read VERY similar articles.. the only thing that has changed since then and now, is that the word "Linux" isn't the poster child it once was. The buzz-word is gone.. now it's just another topic in a very large technological landscape. - kloud213, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1linux will never go anywhere without proper support from major manufacturers. the hardware4 detection is leaps from what it was just a couple years ago when i first decided to try it. But it is still not good enough for the masses. I also beleive that plasma(kde 4) will bring new light to the linux desktop. gnome and kde are both great but are behind the times.
- dcipjr, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I've tried a number of different Linux distros, and in all of them, although most of the components of my laptop were recognized and set up automatically, not all of them were. That's where it begins; even if it's good once it's set up, getting every component of your computer to a working state in Linux is a nightmare.
Linux fans love to cite how they have had non-Linux users sit at their computers and not have any trouble whatsoever using the OS. Well, sure -- once everything is set up, Linux is reasonably easy to use, I won't argue that. Try this instead: hand your friend a device that isn't automatically recognized by Linux, and ask them to set it up for you. See how he or she fares.
Case in point: wireless. Wireless is key for me, and for a lot of other users today. I put Linux on my laptop, and none of the distros I tried recognized my Broadcom card. I figured out how to install ndiswrapper, get the devID of my card, wrap a Windows driver, edit config files, and put up with ensuing kernel panics since ndiswrapper is hardly stable with some wireless cards. Once the wireless was set up, even the GUI tools were hardly mature -- under both KDE and Gnome. I couldn't connect to WPA networks automatically, so I had to install something called wpa_supplicant.
The average user doesn't want to learn about how to operate command-line programs; a lot of people look at the command-line as an obsolete interface from the 80s. Linux die-hards will complain that it's not that hard to type a command in -- doesn't everybody know about flags and parameters? -- but typing in the command is only the beginning. Once you're finished typing the command, you almost always get one of two kinds of feedback: none, or a stream of indecipherable messages.
There aren't a lot of end-users who are going to put up with this. Therefore, major companies aren't going to take producing drivers and software for Linux seriously. Therefore, true hardware/software integration won't be realized. Therefore, the command-line interface and difficulty of setting up Linux will remain.
Am I totally trashing Linux? No, it's excellent for being adapted to work as a specialized OS for set-top boxes, handhelds, etc. But for the desktop market, I don't think Linux will ever make serious inroads in its current state. - SolariPicasso, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I installed UBUNTU on my old DELL CPI with a Wireless D-LINK card. After the install which took along time because the laptop is a PII 300, I was up and running. I was expecting a sluggish OS, but what I got suprised me, it booted 2x faster than XP and worked right away. I was on FireFox and surfing the web in no time. I can't figure out how to get my Laptop screen to full size with the NEOMAGIC drivers, a problem even with Windows sometimes, but i am working on it. All in all I can't see LINUX replacing Windows at work, however I can see it gaining traction in the Home-User market. I think Ubuntu should mail out their CD's like AOL! When I build relatives computers, I will probably got get a cheap AMD box and load UBUNTU on it. They will stay Virus-Free and running much longer than if I give them XP.
- rafgar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Linux for the desktop is here already. It IS easy to use, if you get the right distro, and the software is available. With Ubuntu, Mandriva, Xandros, or any of probably a couple dozen other distros, even my grandmother could configure it. Heck, I know quite a few people who, when I show them the Ubuntu live CD, think it's easier to use than Windows. As for apps, Firefox they mentioned, though it is far from the only web browser available. OpenOffice (which should have been mentioned more, I think) is actually superior in many ways to M$ Office. The only thing that REALLY holds Linux back as a desktop OS these days is the antiquated notion that it takes a geek to run it, which hasn't been true for a couple years. Unfortunately, this flawed sentiment is still very strong and is going to take a while to overcome. I don't think 2006 will be the year of the Linux desktop, nor do I think 2007 will be. I'm fairly certain that it'll take till at least 2008, and probably even later, for it to gain widespread acceptance.
- jonesin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I've been using Linux as my sole desktop OS for years. What's the big deal?
- hellsyeah, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0That article told me nothing at all.
- bitswapper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0As for Linux as a desktop os, I had just put SUSE on a laptop, and my roomie needed to use a computer to do her homework. I put it in front of her, and told her which icon to click to browse the web. That was all, and she was just fine. She was basically a garden-variety user in terms of skill. There were very few questions from her on how to use things. She had used a Mac previously, and windows for about as much in terms of overall experience.
Honestly I don't understand the obsession with the 'business end user'. Are there really so much more of them than home users? Anyway, the big thing in corporate environments is support. Business *really* want to have support contracts so they can call someone in case the help desk and sysadmins can't figure out a problem. And, that's the other big obstacle - most business' help desks know how to talk someone through some windows task of some sort, and if anything's at all different, its a big challenge for them given that they are doing support mostly over the phone. Hell, many business have just finished transitioning to XP fro W2K, and that was a challenge for many. When they think of Linux, knowing its a different OS, I think they mull over the W2K-to-WXP switch, and re-experience some kind of trauma or something like that.
Further, the issue with support contract really doesn't end up having much to do with who to call when all else fails - its just a security blanket. At work, we have rarely call MS for help, and when that suggestion comes up, the windows sysadmins cringe a little. - alex323, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1benlevon: Linux is not an operating system. It's a kernel. In addition, it is more than a CLI. See, X is a windowing system for bitmap displays. It provides the standard protocols used to create _graphical_ user interfaces. I actually read the Wikipedia article this time. ;x (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_server)
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I see articles about desktop linux being the future. Then I see people saying Linux was never meant to be a desktop. Which is it?
- tadelste, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I agree. I didn't post this because I thought that Desktop Linux was going anywhere. I just thought David wrote a frank status report.
- wysiwia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I'm rather skeptical that the Portland project will have any positive effect, just look at this thread "http://lists.osdl.org/pipermail/desktop_architects/2005-December/000349.html".
- trogdoor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"If you don't understand how to write code, you're going to have a tricky time with Linux."
Try to teach smeone new to computers how to use Ubuntu then do the same with XP and get back to me on that statement. - Sintax, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Firefox is god awful, and a load of crap. So slow, no matter what. I'll stick with opera :-) Maybe one day they will go open-source. Not like it matters, though. It's great software.
- storywizard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Well we all have our Linux stories don't we. I have been using Suse Linux on and off for three years, always hoping in my way that this time everything will work...I am not a coder, am not interested in command line power I just wanted an OS that would get me away from M$. well I have to say that if I had lots of time I would try Linux again, I went through a painful multimedia install with Suse 10 that has left me using XP again...but I don't have lots of time and so Apple becomes a lot more enticing as an OS that simply works. I am an ordinary desktop user, and I feel that my days of trying to get Linux 'just to work' are at an end...at least for this year...
- rafgar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I tried that, actually. My sister refused to even sit down at it because, as she put it, only geeks like Linux. I ended up having to install XP for her. Which brings up a good point about setting up the computer. Most users can't (or wouldn't dare try) to install Windows themselves. So why is it that that's ok for Windows but considered a weak point for Linux? Plus Linux, once installed and configured, generally remains stable for as long as you care to use it. Not the case with Windows.
Wireless is something of a weak point for Linux, I have to admit. I've never been able to get wireless to work with Linux, but then, I don't own any computers that have wireless. When I bought my laptop, the only 'security' for wireless was WEP, which I didn't trust. Rather than paying for the wireless and leaving it permanently disabled, I just customized it out of the computer. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0How exactly does the title "betray" the content?
- bdwoolman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Agree: The big difference is between installing a Linux platform and using it. Linux with KDE is not hard to use. Nor is Linux with Gnome. Certainly anyone comfortable with the common grammar of GUI should be able to knock Mac OS X, XP, Gnome or KDE to do most common tasks up to and including installing a new program.
Installs are another matter. But most people get their computer loaded with it's lifetime OS. Few ever do, or need to do, a clean OS/GUI install of any kind. Professionals, hobbyists, and the odd power user take it on. But neither Linux nor Windows is always trivial to load onto a fresh machin. So I doubt that install hurdles really kill the market for Linux.
As was said in an earlier post (or two) that the installed base of Linux will expand when the number of boxes shipped with a Linux based environment on board expands. Don't expect to see this soon in the US (already flopped), but in Europe? Maybe a little. Brazil? Yes. Africa Yes. Uh Hunh. China is going to help as well. They are going to have to go legit at some point. Think they want to pay for all the Windows on their machines, which run pirate software to the last? No. They will switch to Linux/GUI for some markets including the home market. When Lenovo starts shipping seriously Linux watch out. Redmond will not be able to stop them. Not they way they did IBM with OS/2 Warp.
I did think the thumb-sucker of an article that started this post was well thought out. I would like to see the lask kinks get worked out of the Linux platform. And certainly some more mainstream heavy duty apps need to ship for Linux based systems. (EG: Unless things have changed in the last months Linux Format magazine uses Macs for production... Pathetic, but true.)
One last thought: Vista is probably going to be dirty with all kinds of DRM, which may push a few more independent souls in the direction of The Penguin. - 5blocksfree, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0FTA: Bolder and brasher, but the user interface is still immature compared to Mac OS or Windows.
What a complete LOAD. This is an uninformed opinion, AT BEST. I use linux almost exclusively(I also have a windows box for games), and there is absolute nothing I've noticed that relegates Linux to a second-class status as far as UI is concerned. In fact, I'd argue that Linux is MORE sophisticated, because not only does it have a wide selection of window managers to choose from, but environments like KDE are very polished and allow for boatloads of customization options.
Suffice it to say that it really annoys me when purported experts make dumb comments without backing them up. - pgm_01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Linux on the Desktop won't happen until a few things change. "Linux" needs to have a point and click .exe system to install programs. Yes, apt-get and the various front ends for it are easy to use but still not as easy as clicking and downloading x.exe to the desktop and then double clicking it to install. The other major hurdle is the programs themselves. Gimpshop makes gimp more like the photoshop experience but it is not photoshop. There is no player (that I have found) that replicates Itunes or even Musicmatch's interface.
Linux depends on many hacked and "illegal" programs just so you can do what you would normally do in Windows. VLC is the best player out there (for windows or Linux) but you could not build such software in the US and now much of Europe. The growth of Linux depends on interoperability which depends on reverse engineering which is illegal under the DMCA. People will have to get to the point where they are tired of being told where, when, and how to use the content they purchased before Linux becomes mainstream. - ArthurSucks, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I think Linux desktop will start to make serious strides in 2008-2010. At the speed that it's all going I don't see it happening till then.
- chrono13, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1"Linux??? What's that???
Oh, a crappy OS without a user interface. It's just a command line, people."
Riiiiggghhht. So, every time you want someone to refer to Linux, with accompanying software, as a whole subject you want them to state it as:
"GNU/Linux with KDE, Gnome, Xfce, IceWM, Fluxbox, Blackbox, with Gaim, Firefox, *list all libraries here*, xine, mplayer, amarock, xmms, bmp, kaffeine, kplayer, *list all various command shells here*, etc and so on"
Or perhaps by listing all the distro's instead of their common components?
"Ubuntu, Suse, Mandriva, Kubuntu, Knoppix, Damn Small Linux, Gentoo, Slackware, Debian, Fedora, Red Hat... etc etc."
Or maybe since the meaning of the term is, unless specifically talking about the kernel, assumed to mean a complete distro, they could just call it Desktop Linux, and you could stop being so anal retentive. - zwilliams, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Belevon??? Whose that???
Oh, an idiot who obviously hasn't touched Linux in years if at all. Theres KDE, GNOME, Fluxbox, Blackbox... - PseudoCyborg, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Great. Another "Is this the year for desktop Linux?" piece. Boo-urns.
- alex323, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0benlevon: Err... even if you SSH into the Linux box, you would still get a shell. And to use the shell, you'd need a keyboard.
- alchemista, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I don't see anything great about this article. Just seems like any other silly article, and is more about Linux in general than it is the desktop.
- Maverick83, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"If you don't understand how to write code, you're going to have a tricky time with Linux."
One of the dumbest statements I've ever seen.
Anyone who can point and click can install Fedora or Mandriva with no problems.
"Linux is easy. If it's not, you're doing something wrong." - jaredvolkl, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I'll sum this story up for everyone. ANSWER: Firefox is the future!
- valis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I seldom trust anything with the word TRUTH in it. Facts are a lot easier to know and verify. Truth is a lot more difficult to pin down. Interesting article, though.
- alex323, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0benlevon, Could you explain to me what X is?
- alex323, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0benlevon: How do you send the configuration file for the web server over to the box? How do you edit it?
- thecwin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Look.. Linux be interacted with directly (keyboard attachment) or indirectly (ssh, webserver) or it could do completely automatic things with no interaction- just being plugged in to the electricity.. no network, keyboard, monitor or mouse. Or a combination of them all.
- alex323, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0benlevon: "Oh, a crappy OS without a user interface." X provides a user interface. Even bash does, if you think about it. If Linux had no user interface, there would be no need for a keyboard/mouse. :/
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0@alex323:
X runs in the command line - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0@alex323:
umm, you DONT need a keyboard mouse to use linux you idiot
@chrono13
no, you stop being retentive - valis, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0"WOW ... only 21 diggs in almost 24 hours ... and already on the front page - wonder how this got promoted (?)"
Pride and Prejudice? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0WOW ... only 21 diggs in almost 24 hours ... and already on the front page - wonder how this got promoted (?)
- chaosbuddha, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0"WOW ... only 21 diggs in almost 24 hours ... and already on the front page - wonder how this got promoted (?)"
just ads to my theory that digg is more like /. than people think - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0@alex323:
So digg needs a keyboard to run a webserver? NO! The webserver DOES NOT need a keyboard. I cant believe digg users are so stupid, lol. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+0Base on the comments I see, you guys are a bunch of *****.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+0@alex323: a letter, newbie.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+0Oh, I don't know. Maybe use a keyboard? That's a ONE TIME thing, you set it and forget it.
You don't need a bloody keyboard just to serve webpages, which is what you have been trying to say the last three posts you idiot. - tamzarian, on 10/12/2007, -5/+0lol, good question alek :|
---
http://www.waterblogged.be
Browsing Digg on your phone just got easier with our enhancements to the 
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is