What is Digg?140 Comments
- maglob, on 10/12/2007, -13/+74"The GIMP - free software replacement for Adobe Photoshop"
I love GIMP and use it a lot, but it isn't anywhere near being a replacement to Photoshop - eplawless, on 10/12/2007, -5/+44GIMP has a terrible user interface, text features aren't great, lacks dynamic (non-destructive) filters and blending options.
There's other stuff, but that's enough to make me not use it. Especially the UI, even if you can get "GIMPshop" to make it not terrible.
Don't get me wrong. I love and support open source software, and I don't want to ***** on the effort the GIMP team has put in, but it's a graphic design program designed by programmers for programmers. - jasmus, on 10/12/2007, -4/+36Can open... worms... everywhere.....
- coredump0x01, on 10/12/2007, -2/+32Ubuntu is based on Debian. But you're obviously trolling so I'll not bother myself with further explanation.
- Cbeck527, on 10/12/2007, -5/+35Wait wait, there is a Linux article on digg that isn't about Ubuntu?!?
This is blasphemy!! - Giga, on 10/12/2007, -17/+36Sorry for the comment abuse, but why exactly does the release of Vista promote people to look for non-MS alternatives to XP? If you don't want Vista, why not stick with what you are currently using?
- Niten, on 10/12/2007, -9/+26Everyone, care to answer schestowitz's honest question rather than digg him down mercilessly just because you disagree with the premise? I want to know, too: What features of Photoshop do you use, personally, which aren't available in the GIMP?
Note that I'm not implying I think there's no reason to use Photoshop over its Libre cousin. I just want to know why. - darkyoshi, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17Debian's hard to set up, but once you've got it working, it's stable as a large boulder, and you earn 19 million l33t points.
- jcapogna, on 10/12/2007, -1/+16Being the linux noob I am, this looks exactly like Ubuntu to me. Can someone explain what the difference is?
- Gzero, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15I thought they just both used GNOME, which is a Linux interface (the other one being KDE). So superficially, they're going to look practically identical, it's the installer, the programs, configuration, etc. that make each build unique.
That, or I have no idea what I'm talking about. - Giga, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14"I SAID DIGG HIM DOWN YOU IGNORANT DIGG HERD!
Jesus, do you people ever think for yourselves?"
I think for myself, thus I do not do what you tell me to do. GTFO, Ubuntu IS based off Debian. - theonewho, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13Check the automatix website again mikecampbell. There is indeed an automatix for debian etch.
- reddevil3, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14GIMP is great for most amateur "artists" which I assume most diggers are...I use GIMP too because I don't need professional work done.
WTF is up with GIMP's user interface???? Can't it all be in one window just like every other program! - apecat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8@jcapogna: Debian Stable releases are.. Stable. Stable distros are intended for systems that just need to work with proven, reliable software. That means, boring sounding not-bleeding-edge versions of everything with backported security fixes, see http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Backporting . This may or may not be something you'd enjoy for your main workstation/toy, but at least consider using something that is built to last a long time when setting up systems that your job and honor depends on, or for your own spare time's sake, when dealing with people who don't care about software versions, just reliability. Maybe using CentOS (a distro based on Red Hat's Enterprice Linux, all releases receive patches for.. seven years!) or Debian Stable to build an easy to use interweb workstation for Grandma wouldn't maybe be such a far fetched idea after all?
Ubuntu's six month release cycle can not be compared to the "release when ready"-model of Debian, the quality of Debian's packages remain higher, many commonly used Ubuntu packages are even in "non-supported" repositories. As of now and not even Ubuntu's current LTS (Long Term Support) release seem be very highly regarded among sysadmins as far as stability is concerned, compared to Debian. however, for server and corporate use, Ubuntu's LTS 5 year fixed support schedule makes it easy to plan deployments and administration. It remains to be seen how/if the Debian project will respond to this, but at the moment, Debian Stable (4.0/etch) is actually a technically more up to date system than Ubuntu LTS (6.06.1/dapper).
Debian stable is superb for situations where you want to build a customized, (in a work related scenario, the word in-house would be used) solution without the expensive optional support contracts from the likes of Red Hat, Ubuntu or Sun. Debian's default desktop settings may not be as thrilling as Ubuntu's, but the capability is there. Also, one notion of the Debian project that often is completely ignored in the press is the massive support for different architectures (i386, x86-64, PowerPC, SPARC, DEC Alpha, ARM, MIPS, HPPA, S390, IA-64.. and these are just the fully, totally supported ones). That is, they are releasing massive, security maintained repositories of Free (as in speech) software enabling you to turn systems a typical PC-centric user never may have heard of into fully capable desktops, servers or other systems.
In addition to Debian stable, there are more recent alternatives for those who wish to use the products of the debian project. The project itself is an amazing organization to follow, its mechanisms work pretty well considering the heavy use of politics and polemics in every aspect of seemingly anything. The development flow is described in the image on this page: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Debian-package-cycle.png
For those who want a recent system with packages that have been proven quite reliable during their stay in the unstable repos, debian testing is an interesting solution, at least for workstations and toy servers. It's a continuous, rolling release, so there's never a need to upgrade from a cd, just use teh løvely apt-get dist-upgrade regularly. I've used the rolling testing release on my current home server for over a year, and i've experienced no breakage whatsoever during package upgrades. I prefer the current Kubuntu releases on my desktop, as i want the nice default desktop configs. - Mausen, on 10/12/2007, -5/+14THIS
IS
DIGG!!!
(couldn't resist) - Dude622, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13They look a lot alike because Ubuntu is based off of the Debian platform. Other than that, I can't see a reason to prefer this to Ubuntu.
- kuyman, on 10/12/2007, -8/+17@schestowitz
The GIMP lacks CMYK support, smart layers, the shear number of filters, HDR support, good auto align, panoramic image generator, 32 Bit support (I think), the layer style support Photoshop has, the number of freely available brushes and add-ons, decent perspective controls, commercial support, the number of tutorials, and a decent name.
I'm sure there are a lot more, anyone care to add? - linuxbeta, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Etch Shots: http://www.thecodingstudio.com/opensource/linux/screenshots/index.php?linux_distribution_sm=Debian%20Etch%204.0
- oobuntu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Shouldn't the comparisons be made with Photoshop Elements? The full blown photoshop is out of most casual user's price range.
Even if Photoshop were able on Linux natively I couldn't justify the price, hence sticking with gimp anyway. - jorgepblank, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Okay you guys all seem to be confused. Whether or not Debian is good on the desktop doesn't mean if it's good or not at all, Ubuntu is based on it, so if it weren't for Debian, there'd be no Ubuntu (Most likely, at least). I like Ubuntu more than Debian on the Desktop side of things, but Debian deserves its credit. Ubuntu owes much to Debian, and actually sends many of its patches/fixes/etc back to the Debian developers. All the great things like apt-get/synaptic/aptitude and the thousands of packages come from Debian, as do many other wonderful things.
The reason they all (All as in, most of the Linux distributions) look the same is because they use the same Desktop Environment, be it either of the two most popular: GNOME or KDE, there are more but these are the most popular. In this case and in Ubuntu's, by default, it's GNOME. The same themes could be installed on any of them, so that's why they look the same. The Desktop Environment is basically (I'm saying it like this so you understand it, but it might be incorrect) what controls how the desktop looks, be it the theme and other stuff. The Desktop Environments work on pretty much any distribution because they are still Linux, so it's like installing a program (That's actually what it is, a program), which is why they are able to look similar.
Looks shouldn't really be a big deal when choosing a distribution, since you could really make any distribution look like anything (It's customizable up the a**). Sorry if this is in any way incorrect, I'm just trying to clear up any confusion. - bullox, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Debian is no longer a pain to set up. Etch has a very clear installation process with an optional GUI.
- chrisbarr, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12This is Madness!
- 89vision, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Wireless works fine for me with the built in cards of the 4 different laptops ive tried feisty on. No tweaking at all, it just works.
- fusinfun, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8schestowitz: one of the biggest things that Photoshop can do that GIMP can't is work in the CMYK color space. This is an essential feature for professional work, as it is designed for the printing presses as opposed to your average home printer. In general, the home user or hobbyist wont need any of the features that Photoshop supplies (over GIMP) other than the "It just works" factor, and the learning curve.
- Tom_Riddle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@mandeep
I'm currently working on a big project called "Chi" that aims to create a beautified linux desktop.
There's also a big movement for the KDE in which new icon sets/themes etc. are being created.
Also, the Compiz and Beryl projects aim to create a better looking linux desktop.
we're all working towards it.
As for installing things by default.
Sometimes you just can't. there are libraries out there that are still closed source or for some reason can't be released under the GPL. it's a big struggle for people trying to push out a great distro when they can't release little modules like that. Don't worry. we're working on it.
The more out in the open that linux gets, and the more attention it gets, the faster it'll move. - Mausen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Etch is much simpler to setup than Sarge was. No more answering arcane technical questions during the setup. It can figure all of that out. Most of the information you supply to the installer is similar to what you'd put into the Ubuntu installer.
Without making a long post of this, the differences can be summed up like this: Debian goes for stability. You get fewer releases, but those releases are not going to have very many bugs at all. Ubuntu releases every six months, but suffers many bugs, as it is based off of the unstable branch of Debian. More up to date, but also more bugs. A Debian user can upgrade to the Testing branch and have a rolling release instead of staying with Stable. This is what most Debian desktop users end up doing. This way, you end up getting changes as they happen, rather than rolled up into periodic releases. Testing is, despite the name, rather stable. The only exception to this is just after a release, when the freeze on testing lifts and a bunch of packages flood in. Testing will be good to go again in a month or so. - growler1, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9"I had program crashes often, which is what can be partly expected from free software."
--To add a bit of contrast, I've been using both Linux and XP for the past year, and have had far more application crashes in XP than in Ubuntu Edgy or Feisty (and I'm running Linux as a virtual machine on the laptop and standalone on the desktop). - megaton, on 10/12/2007, -46/+52OK! We get it!
Linux is the perfect alternative to Windows. Gimp is the perfect alternative to Photoshop. Audacity is the perfect alternative to Sound Forge/Audition. LiVES is the perfect alternative to Premier. cSound is the perfect alternative to Cubase.
It's a shame it's not true. Get a Mac. THAT'S the perfect alternative.
(Before you digg me down, I don't own a Mac, I don't know anyone that owns a Mac, and I LOVE Linux. But it's not the perfect desktop replacement. Nor are any of the aforementioned apps perfect replacements. If you want a competitive alternative, Mac is your only choice.) - apecat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8We can't stop here. This is Deb country!
- westyvw, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7How come every linux article has to bring up the GIMP without ever mentioning the alternatives? I would offer that Krita may be another useful photo editing tool. Krita supports CMYK and has a layout that wont scare most people off. Its no photoshop replacer, but I would give the Krita team credit for making a decent tool for linux.
CMYK, 16 bit (some colorspaces with 32), multiple layer types, brushes, is scriptable with python and ruby, and some filters. - jasmus, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8Well put, eplawless. I only dugg him down (and the OP) because it's a little off topic. I didn't want to see a flame war about GIMP and Photoshop in a discussion that should be about Debian Linux.
- bullox, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12It's a good thing to let people know about the non-MS alternatives due to the fact that all new PCs come shipped with Vista, and some people don't have XP to install on it. Linux is a good alternative for free, especially Debian Etch (Or Ubuntu, etc).
- apikoros, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Jaywee, you seem to be a bit confused about Debian. Debian isn't slow per se. It's just careful and picky about new software that may still have bugs and compromise system stability. Whenever a serious flaw is discovered in the software they have already chosen to include, the Debian team fixes it very quickly. Perhaps the best way to say it is that Debian is slow to adopt new features, but fast to fix problems with existing ones.
(And, to clarify further: Debian isn't slow to adopt new features because its team is lazy or slow -- it's because they test software very thoroughly before they release it.) - bIuebonics, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6vector work is better in photoshop as well...
- dyzlexiK, on 10/12/2007, -9/+14I hate people who claim to have the ultimate desktop. Ive used UNIX, Windows, Linux, and a bit of Mac OS9 (I havent seen a mac in years). I used Ubuntu, SUSE, Mandriva (It was Mandrake back then). I recently switched back to Windows XP after trying Windows Vista, Ubuntu 6.10, OpenSUSE 10.2, and Windows XP over 3 months. Linux was good, but still has a ways to go. I had program crashes often, which is what can be partly expected from free software. I prefer the polished commercial programs, although I know there are great free alternatives out there. It goes down to preference.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Most source code quality metrics put OSS as way out in front of proprietary software. It's not even close I think on average it is believed that OSS has a 5th as many bugs per lines of code as compared with proprietary.
- xtraa, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I am on OS X, but I would recommend everything else than Vista, as long as you don't have to work with it because of some special application. It is not a personal thing, I was fine with XP, but Vista only looks so tidy and clean because they hide all crap under the hood behind some arrows and strange menus. It is really unhandy and one has to spend much more time to get tasks done. It's like a huge detour searching experience.
- benb, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@kuyman - I'll add one more.
Lack of a decent GUI RAW file converter - a la, Adobe Camera RAW. - sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Actually, there is Automatix for Debian. :p
- gsiliceo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5maybe xp but vista does have a built-in drm features.
- Jacob, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Ubuntu is based on debian which is mostly the package system, meaning .deb files are used to install stuff (in addition to installing from source) other than that they both use gnome as opposed to KDE XFCE or many others. The biggest difference being the packages available, installation, and the system defaults. Other than that they are quite similar. You can make a debian install exactly the same as an ubuntu install with a little effort (or a switch to the ubuntu repos and installing ubuntu desktop) I think that about covers it, I completed what the others said as they weren't quite as thourough as me while I wasn't too thourough it should clear up most basic questions you have.
- generalloy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8It's called the 'cost analysis of vista DRM'. You will pay for it in other ways than just having the "privilege" to watch your DRM'd media.
Subscription music? Why not use Magnatune in Rhythmbox or the store in Amarok. Otherwise, you could have used Hymn to download your precious DRM'd iTunes music (which would then have Fairplay stripped by another DRM stripper), but Apple locked that application out. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6For most users, this is heaven! More than enough for everything they do plus it's all free. Really, unless you have specialty needs, this will serve you.
- reha, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5try debian etch automatix 2 installation guide http://www.debianadmin.com/automatix2-setup-in-debian-etch.html
- goyira, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I mostly agree with the "no perfect desktop" thing, but I think that your opinion on the stability of open source software is an artifact of having used free programs which don't focus on stability, like Ubuntu and Suse. Not saying they are bad, but stability is not their main goal. This digg post is about Debian, which does has stability as primary goal, and if you try it you will probably find it really stable. Same applies to other free software like FreeBSD, OpenBSD, non of which is less stable than any comercial product, AFAIK.
I agree with the fact that different people has different needs (cutting edge software Vs stability, in this case), but I think that most of them (exceptions are some kinds of technical software) are covered by open source software
Ps. If my english sucks, sorry, it's because I'm not a native speaker, - gringer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5There's plenty of stuff on the web about why this change happened. One of these sources is the following (found by googling for debian+firefox):
http://www.internetnews.com/dev-news/article.php/3634591 - poturta, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@bIuebonics
This is one thing that has baffled me since the start of the internet. Why do people use a raster graphics program to do vectors I mean it's so bad to try and do in photoshop when you can just fire up illustrator/inkscape and make it all quite easy.
And do give me that ass about it being hard to put stuff from one into the other k go export and if you are using photoshop and illustrator you can just drag from one to the other - GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@dyzlexiK
None of the other branches of Linux have nearly as diverse a range of packages as Debian. Right now find me packages for Groovy or Scala that are remotely up to date on any Linux branch other than Debian. Even Gentoo is behind on those two (admittedly they aren't high priorities right now).
However it's worth noting (though none of the Ubuntu sucks, use Debian crew would admit it) that Ubuntu is one of the biggest drivers of the modern stuff like new GNOME packages for Debian. One of the prime reasons Debian Etch uses 2.14 is that it is the same GNOME release as Dapper so has had extensive testing by Canonical as well as with the Debian crew so is very stable. - jwalk81980, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Spoon fed. That sums it up. This is extremly straight forward. If you've been thinking about trying linux, this is the guide. I just followed all the steps and it took two hours including downloading and installing the recommended programs.
- shanesemler, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@mandeep
The icons in those screen shots aren't Tango, they are standard Gnome icons. -
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