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135 Comments
- roysorlie, on 02/06/2009, -4/+49I sometimes wonder wether MS has sweetened the deal with certain hardware vendors, in an effort to keep linux drivers from appearing. The Linux community certainly does all it can to help hardware vendors out with drivers if they'll let them.
@greenx: It's not easier, but though the overall percentage of linux on netbooks has dropped quite a deal, the number of units shipped with linux has risen quite alot.
My biggest gripe is that when I find a netbook that has all I want, 10" 1.6Ghz, 3G etc, they only ship with XP. I want to be able to freely chose what operating system I use on which hardware. I cannot describe the intense dislike I feel having to pay for a XP license when I'm not going to use it. If I want a EEE 1000H with 3G, I HAVE to pay the ***** windows tax. Gah! I loathe MS, and giving them any money just pisses me off! - SalmanPak, on 02/07/2009, -2/+28Why does the fact that Windows 7 will be available in different versions mean that one would want to move to Linux? What does that have to do with anything?
- greenx, on 02/06/2009, -5/+31It is getting harder to find EEE PC's with Linux as the operating system.
- Jektal, on 02/06/2009, -0/+25I've actually had the opposite experience lately. Just installed Ubuntu 8.10 on a media center PC at home which previously was plagued by horrible driver support (ATI Radeon 9800, could never get 3D acceleration), and everything went perfect, including the new ATI proprietary drivers (which actually work.)
But I'm still not going to "move to Linux" because of software. I still enjoy PC gaming and Wine is not a viable solution. - estigma, on 02/06/2009, -7/+26The company I work to moved to a new HQ, more than a year ago, and they decided to put all company computers with Linux. So I decided that it was best for me to make the move also at Home.
Ubuntu is my flavour. I have 1 or 2 programs in wine, everything works excellent.
I recommend any work place to be powered with Linux! It's economics! The learning curve is small... - saranagati, on 02/07/2009, -1/+17kind of a retarded article. of course [hardware] drivers aren't going to work with any operating system you choose because the driver has to know how to communicate with the kernel (or more accurately, the kernel needs to be able to communicate with the driver). What is sucks that hasn't happened yet is that not all companies open the specs to their hardware so third parties can't create drivers without having to reverse engineer the hardware. It would be nice if all companies would at least release the basic specs to get the device working in a basic state without the specific specs to perform the more secretive advanced features that makes the device unique.
Maybe one day there will be some organization that will verify that device X has had basic functionality specs released and can brand their product with it, then OEMs could sell their hardware with "all hardware in this computer has X seal of approval". In fact it would probably be a pretty profitable business for someone who has the right connections to start. - JackpotCity, on 02/06/2009, -2/+15As far as the NetBooks go, it seems to be that the stripped down Linux/Ubuntu OSes seem to boot faster and perform better than the same unit running Windows. That makes the Linux based OS quite desirable, but some people just don't want to switch and go through the process of figuring out a new unfamiliar operating system.
- imikedaman, on 02/07/2009, -4/+15Six different versions? This finally proves without a doubt that Windows is retroactively terrible and should be abandoned by all at once! I shall follow the lead of this bold and daring author by switching to the one and only version of Linux!
- srg13, on 02/07/2009, -1/+10You could demand a refund on the license if you don't agree to the EULA.
- smotpoker, on 02/07/2009, -0/+9This is capitalism, you're supposed to speak with your wallet. You don't hate capitalism do you?!!!
Most people don't hate a product unless it is unjustifiably inferior or produced by companies whose values directly oppose their own. Both of those faults are good reasons to withdraw financial support for a company yet MS continually bribes partners into making it harder and harder. - PatrickBrown, on 02/07/2009, -4/+13Once people get past the whole "I use Windows because I am afraid of Linux" and not because of the actual merits of the OS, perhaps some progress will be made. But being afraid of something just because its different and better isn't realistic in the real world.
- inactive, on 02/07/2009, -1/+10 No Windows 7 is not going to kill it.
Linux users are not going to desert Linux . - inactive, on 02/07/2009, -2/+10_You_ "fix" it, jackass - remove the Unix/Linux section in your User Preferences. And do us a favor and choke to death while you're at it, you whiny little bitch.
- blqysmg, on 02/07/2009, -0/+7Oddly enough, there are millions of us out here who have moved to Linux because the OS is better, not because we hate Microsoft. As I have stated in many posts, I own copies of all three major Operating Systems, Microsoft, Linux and Apple's OS X. I am currently using OS X as my main desktop, but not because I've decided to hate Linux. I just wanted to give it a try. I found that I like certain aspects of it pretty well.
Microsoft did the world a favor by making a nice, easy to use operating system that enabled cheap computers on the desks of millions of people. Over the last few years, progress has slowed and allowed other competing OS makers to develop and offer complete solutions just as good. Malware (virii, adware, worms, trojans, etc) have exploited the weaknesses in Windows to the point where a yearly tax of anti-virus and anti-malware programs are mandatory. These not only cost the customer five to ten dollars a month per machine, but also use up a fair chunk of processing power to run.
For someone with several machines, the number of costly software packages begins to mount. If I have five computers in my home, I'd need five versions of the OS ($600), five versions of an anti-virus ($300), five copies of an Office Suite ($1250), five versions of some sort of backup and recovery software ($300), at least one copy of a registry cleaner ($60). That's a lot of money for software. It dwarfs the cost of the computers themselves.
With Linux, all of this is available for free. With Windows, some of it is free. With OS X, there is the cost of the OS itself, but the rest is either included in the cost of the OS, or is very easy to find for free. Also, the back up and recovery system built into OS X is far better than any other system I've ever used.
So, we don't use Linux of OS X just because we hate Windows. I actually like much about Windows. I just don't like the ease in which Windows becomes infected by malware or the registry becomes corrupted or filled with junk. I do hate the business practices of Microsoft, but I can't say for sure that other large companies (read: Apple) are not just as bad. I think that's the nature of business today. - olliholliday, on 02/07/2009, -5/+112 consumer versions of windows 7.
repeatedly saying 6 versions doesnt make it true, 2 are volume licensed versions of the others, 1 is a cut-down version for embedded devices and emerging markets and 1 is presumably for developer testing.
they've repeatedly said that only home basic and home premium will be on store shelves - just like XP and XP Pro. - FairDinkumMate, on 02/07/2009, -0/+6@definitefail - If manufacturer's weren't getting a kickback from Microsoft, why do you think they would sell netbooks ONLY with XP?
You are missing the point of the comment. Microsoft aren't giving XP to the manufacturers, they are charging whatever OEM [rice is agreed. If the manufacturer is paying microsoft even $25 for Xp, why aren't they selling the same netbook $25 cheaper without an OS(it should actually be even lower due to the labor they save on by not having to install an OS!)?
Do you think maybe it's because Microsoft tell the manufacturer that they will sell them XP licenses for netbooks at $25 each on the condition that it is installed on EVERY netbook they sell? This sounds like a fair trade off until you realize that the OEM's only do the deal to save money on the 90% they sell where the consumer wants XP. So Microsoft continues its dominance & the OEM's make more money because they only pay $25 instead of $50 for an XP license.
So everyone is enjoying the deal except for the consumer that doesn't get the choice of whether they pay $25(or $50) extra for Microsoft Windows XP or save the money & install an open source or other pre-purchsed operating system of their choice.
Don't delude yourself - XP is included with netbooks only because it advantages Microsoft & the OEM, not the consumer - herein lies the problem! - djb28, on 02/06/2009, -2/+8I recently built a desktop, and I can't get Linux to boot. Something with the SATA controller, I think. Anyway, I just hope that a fix comes out soon, because that's the only thing holding me back. I prefer a dual-boot setup though, so I can still play my PC games.
- Meursault, on 02/07/2009, -0/+6Yeah, that was a non-sequitur.
- obliviousfool, on 02/07/2009, -1/+6And you intend to strip down your Windows install how?
By using 3rd party software that breaks your license agreement and leaves you with something of questionable stability and kinda renders the idea of paying for this bulky thing you aren't using seem kinda crazy? - Barackalypse, on 02/07/2009, -4/+9Having 6 different versions of Windows 7 = bad
Having dozens of Linux distributions = good
Able to spot bias when you see it = priceless
Please comment on the reason for digging me down, is it because of the Mastercard commercial format post or for suggesting Linux users are a bit hypocritical? =) - fungie5, on 02/06/2009, -1/+6I started using Ubuntu on my custom-built desktop PC since the 8.10 release last year. But like you, i have several games that wine will not run smoothly, so i have XP installed in dual boot configuration. I boot into Ubuntu most of the time and boot into XP for gaming. I'm practically addicted to the Multiple desktop environment that Linux provides now. It's gotten to the point where using the Internet on XP feels weird and inadequate because i only have the one desktop space to work with.
In any case, i don't think that having only one OS per machine is smart. If a windows update causes the PC to fail to start up, you're stuck with a brick until you can get it repaired. I had that problem once prior to installing Ubuntu, and it was hell to repair because not even safe mode worked, It had research files on the machine that i hadn't backed up and it was a Ubuntu live CD that actually saved the day. Needless to say, I didn't need to think twice before installing Ubuntu on my PC after that little fiasco. Now i have two ways to access my files in case a similar situation ever happens again. - Whackly, on 02/07/2009, -1/+6I have also had the opposite experience. I loaded LinuxMint on a couple of laptops without looking up a single thing in advance. Every thing worked great right out of the gate, for both machines.
- inactive, on 02/07/2009, -0/+5How about getting vendors to open up then, *****. Your point is retarded, of course linux drivers can be written, if a company allows access for the linux people to work on it.
https://www.linuxfoundation.org/en/Linux_Graphics_ ...
"members of the Xorg team were able to resume development of the original ati driver using the now released documentation to give it identical features to the radeonhd driver but using their design principles"
unsupported hardware? what the ***** are you talking about, a company that will not allow linux drivers to be developed or a printer from 1984? - TrulyBelieve, on 02/07/2009, -2/+71. RT-HCL?
2. If you standardize too much on hardware, it wont get any better or faster...
5. Even 'unsupported' hardware works pretty good for the most part in most linux distros... just gotta poke around under the hood a bit to make it better - JustinTX, on 02/07/2009, -0/+4I don't, for several reasons:
1) I hate the xbox controller layout and yes, I know, I'm in the minority on this point.
2) I have decided that I will never personally, knowingly support Microsoft by any financial contribution to their business. I try not to be evangelical about it. It is a personal decision I have no right to force upon others.
3) Gran Turismo is exclusive to the PlayStation.
4) The PS3 is a fantastic Blu-ray player.
My point is, while what you say may be true of some people, it is definitely the case that a number of us actively avoid sending money to Microsoft. - Meursault, on 02/07/2009, -1/+5With Windows 7 coming out in no less than 6 different versions, it's getting harder and harder to avoid sorting your baseball collection in the nude.
- darthjure, on 02/07/2009, -0/+4If six versions of windows is confusing, try Linux. They've only got hundreds of versions!
- LostSoul83, on 02/07/2009, -0/+4I just got an Asus G50V and I love it. I installed Ubuntu and all hardware works. I just had to change a SATA setting in the BIOS. My wifi, camera, sound, and nvidia graphics are all well supported. I'm really glad I got a laptop with Nvidia, because the last one I had used ATI and they threw their users to the dogs. They didn't support older cards with the FGLRX driver, which meant we had to use the open ATI driver, which meant even Q3A ran like garbage.
- theaceoffire, on 02/07/2009, -0/+4Microsoft has told companies: If you sell Non MS software openly, we will raise the cost to sell our OS.
- FlyingCaveman, on 02/07/2009, -1/+5I just ordered one of these. There super cheap now. and that Celeron is faster than the Atom. http://www.amazon.com/9-Inch-Laptop-Celeron-Proces ...
Not an EEEpc.... but still. Comes with Linux. Edubuntu. - klitzbtc, on 02/07/2009, -0/+4Yeah, I agree entirely. Some of these people should travel back in time and try running Ubuntu < 5.10, or another big name, like back when it was Fedora Core/Suse.
Hardware support has come an incredibly long way in the past 5 years, and even the remotely unsupported stuff now has at least some personal/community project working on it.
Just get the companies to release the hardware API, or pressure them into releasing Linux drivers, if there is enough market force they'll do it, and progress won't be hindered by standardization. - DickBreath, on 02/07/2009, -0/+4If you don't like Xandros, why get XP?
If you're going to erase the XP off the machine, why not just erase the Xandros off? Or do you WANT to pay Microsoft a "very small licensing fee" for nothing?
If I'm going to pay someone a very small licensing fee, I'd rather pay a Linux vendor than Microsoft.
BTW, both of my Eee PC's are running Xandros. I may try GetEasyPeasy.com after the version based on 9.04 comes out. - ethana2, on 02/07/2009, -0/+4Yeah, I know..
Ubuntu Desktop
Ubuntu Server
x86, 86_64
Xubuntu
Kubuntu
Edubuntu
....someone needs to make up their mind. - dig1x, on 02/07/2009, -4/+8"With news today of Windows 7 being made available in no less than six different versions"
2 Versions at retail for Real World Users.
1 version for every software and hardware perspective.
This kind of "wow! 7 versions of W7!1!" hysteria from a *LINUX* site? For ***** sakes, stop with the FUD. Its just ridiculous. - Nephersir7, on 02/07/2009, -0/+3I think I may have had the same problem but I read in a forum that for my mobo (asus p5q deluxe) i had to switch a parameter to AHCI in the BIOS in order to be able to install linux. Unfortunately, you cannot do that if windows is already installed and I get BSODs whenever i try to install windows xp. vista works perfectly.
But virtualbox (or wubi maybe?) can be good alternative installations - exspasticcomics, on 02/07/2009, -0/+3hot air really- check your hardware before you install. if you do have anything that'll misbehave on you (& most of the time- you won't ..but once in awhile- especially with certain laptop manufactures.. you run into problems..) replace it. yeah- you may get stuck spending a little money to do the first install... but after that- you can upgrade your OS until your blue it the face for nothing.
-long story short- it's cheaper if you know what you're getting into in the first place. going in blind is foolish.. get a knoppix disk or something. - sourabhg, on 02/06/2009, -5/+8I m waiting for that day to come..
Freeedoooom!!!!! - Taiyoryu, on 02/07/2009, -0/+3Get a pre-installed Linux machine and call it a day ESPECIALLY if it's a notebook since user-serviceable hardware is limited to memory and hard drive. There's no need to fiddle with hardware incompatibilities especially with regards to a "commodity" item like a wireless card. If you are stuck with hardware you can't change and the peripheral comes in a USB, PCMCIA, or ExpressCard flavor, go that route than the other.
- ElbowGeek, on 02/07/2009, -0/+3Bollocks, the industry did have safe and stable standards for hardware many years ago, in the form of mainframe and minicomputer companies who made their own hardware and operating systems, and made sure that any third party hardware and software was thoroughly compatible before you bought it.
The personal computer revolution opened up the hardware and software market to all comers, but at the expense of guaranteed compatibility. However the lower cost of owning a PC trumped concerns about compatibility. - Jambi, on 02/07/2009, -0/+3Don't listen to him, stay out of Jersey! We've got enough jackasses as is!
- smotpoker, on 02/07/2009, -0/+3@Koskun
It takes less than 5 minutes to swap out an imaged hd with a blank one manually. I don't think it would be too much trouble to keep a supply of blank hds handy and swap them out if requested.
Regarding a refund, last I heard it is fairly difficult to get a refund on OEM installed Windows machines. These days it seems to only take a few hrs of effort with at least some manufacturers ( http://www.linux.com/articles/59381 ) but back in the day it was nearly impossible ( http://www.linuxjournal.com/article/7040 ) and I wouldn't fully discount the possibility of it still being just as difficult with some OEMs even today. This risk at makes it prudent to at request/support OS-free options if you know you won't be using Windows or have a retail copy - inactive, on 02/06/2009, -5/+8Yes, leaving the parents house gives you that feeling. Enjoy it, when the day arrives.
- spritom, on 02/07/2009, -0/+3Funny...the Amazon item shows that it comes with Linux, but in the pictures, one image has a Windows XP logo and another shows the Windows XP desktop.
- rafe101, on 02/07/2009, -0/+3What exactly is he saying?
"the sad news is that it is getting harder, instead of easier . . . We are getting close to that point, but we are not quite there yet."
Sounds like two different people. - rieuwa, on 02/07/2009, -2/+5perhaps if you had put into practice what you say in your last sentence, you might have noticed the slight touch of humour and sarcasm in imikedaman's comment...
- Ansible, on 02/07/2009, -0/+3WTF is with this article? The guy couldn't be bothered to even look up what solutions might be available for his problem, and proceeds to whine about how his crap isn't supported. He can't be bothered to research his topic and just wants to whine about things. What does he want, hackers to break his door down and storm in with the latest drivers to install? If you want to run linux, don't buy some unsupported crap laptop, end of story.
- pyrates, on 02/07/2009, -0/+2The reason why your wifi card doesn't work is because the Linux kernel doesn't have an abi that allows for binary driver support. Every time a new Linux kernel comes out, the abi breaks and the manufacturer has to recompile their drivers for that new version of the kernel. The reason for this is to convince them to open source their drivers, well unless they are selling the hardware in servers, it ain't gonna happen. So the community has to work on it and a lot of the time, it is not implemented well. Look at the open source nvidia drivers for an example, they can only do opengl in software because they don't have proper memory management. Why's that? Well if you're not getting paid to program something, you're not gonna work on the 10% of the features that consumers care about. And that's where companies who make paying products do care about because if they don't, no one will buy their products.
So in actuality, the fault here is Linux itself and nothing more. - FairDinkumMate, on 02/07/2009, -0/+2"part of the reason the computer is so cheap is because the manufacturer gets XP/Vista very cheap" - Please explain how including XP/Vista with a PC reduces the cost for Dell(your example) of manufacturing a PC!!! Does including a Windows OS magically make the hard drive, power supply or motherboard cheaper to make?
"It is actually more work to manufacture a computer without an OS on it than it is with one." - SOURCE?
I would LOVE to hear how it is cheaper to pay Microsoft for an OS for every PC manufactured//assembled by Dell(& that's giving you the assumption that the hardware isn't tested for functionality until it has an OS on it which I highly doubt but am not aware of Dell's quality control processes so I won't bother arguing it) than it is to just build a PC. - emotecontrol, on 02/07/2009, -0/+2I see what you did there.
- trollick, on 02/07/2009, -3/+56(!) versions of Windows??? Thank god there is only one Linux distro, thank god.
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