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- 4DFX, on 04/06/2008, -2/+102Microsoft is not inches away from dumping them as a partner. They need Dell as much as Dell needs Microsoft.
- Aeuta, on 04/06/2008, -5/+80I am sorry but this story is a little too angry....if it was done with better language skills and less ranting I would consider it news worthy but it exemplify a attitude of rage that I do not want placed on fellow linux users.
- InorganicMatter, on 04/06/2008, -1/+69The Windows machines are cheaper because Dell subsidizes them with crapware. McAfee, AOL, Roxio, Cyberlink, et all pay Dell huge amounts of money to install free trials of their software on Dell machines. Said software will not work on Linux. Hence the Linux machines cannot be subsidized with crapware, hence Dell passes the additional cost on to you.
There's no conspiracy here. - pcx99, on 04/06/2008, -3/+46Well at the risk of being modded into oblivion by Linux fan-bois...
I just purchased a Dell XPS m1530 laptop (with windows Vista Ultimate installed -- I use it for home and work so sue me). However I'm a big Ubuntu fan so before I re-installed Vista (to get rid of the crapware) I installed Ubuntu 7.10. Unfortunately this failed since 7.10 didn't have my Intel wireless drivers however Ubuntu 8.04 (Hardy Heron) has drivers for everything -- my nvidia card worked even with all the sparklies turned on, my touchpad worked, my wireless and wired cards worked -- even the friggin bluetooth worked. So far from being a sham Dell's partnership with Ubuntu has pretyt much guaranteed that you can install Ubuntu on your system and it will "just work", just like Windows. That's pretty miraculous for Linux they NEVER used to nail laptop installs.
Dell is pretty much the only major vendor where you even HAVE the option to get Linux installed and supported -- you just go try that with HP. So screw the author of this article and screw the posters who are ragging on Dell. Yea it will be a great world when we can actually select the OS we want and pay a reasonable price, but Dell is trying something new and at LEAST THEY ARE TRYING. So cut them some slack and maybe another vendor like HP will come along and offer something a little better then go with the best value. - neil1492, on 04/06/2008, -17/+48Dell knows that if they sell computers with Vista the user will think that the computer will suck or break it with spyware and have to buy a new one in a year.
- inactive, on 04/06/2008, -1/+31For the info I have a Dell XPS M1330 with Ubuntu pre-installed and it ROCKS. Eveyrthing works out of the box and the laptop is just fantastic.
- oobuntu, on 04/06/2008, -6/+33old story but dell still aren't doing anything about it. dugg.
- j0hnc0ry, on 04/06/2008, -11/+37All four of us Dell buying Linux users are pissed!
- kss42, on 04/06/2008, -9/+35I actually think the best way to go is to buy a Windows box from Dell, then install Linux yourself as a dual-boot. Rip on Windows all you want, it's still nice to have it available on your machine. Plus you get all kinds of discounts - on hardware and on Windows itself - by buying a package from Dell. I'm running Ubuntu on a Dell laptop right now (BTW, loving this Hardy beta), and I don't feel like my experience is worsened by having XP on another partition.
- thewump, on 04/06/2008, -14/+38In Dells defense you can buy a WINDOWS machine for $225 more than a WINDOWS machine. They have multiple paths to the same hardware based on marketing. Last time I bought a dell I paid $329 shipped for a machine which could have been $90 more depending no how I selected it.
I'm more upset that you can't get Linux on an AMD machine. On the pricing, so what ( for me ). I'm just buying a machine to install Linux on, so a free Vista license to wipe my ass with is superfluous. - baalzebub, on 04/06/2008, -8/+29from what i seen of Dell's desktop lineup for a Linux pre-install on the Inspiron 530 n-Series you would be better off going to Newegg or Tigerdirect and buying a Barebones system, most users already have a good monitor, keyboard & mouse so a barebones system is all that is needed...
- swanny89, on 04/06/2008, -13/+30A person who buys a dell desktop with linux installed is either an idiot or an idealist. A person who knows enough about computers to actively look for linux on dell's website could build their own plain and simple. But, dell's linux offerings aren't limited to desktops. I bought a Dell linux laptop because I needed one and was planning on installing linux anyways. By buying linux preinstalled I was assured that my hardware was compatible out of the box, saving me from possible headaches down the road.
- MacSuxWindozSux, on 04/06/2008, -1/+18The one thing I don't like about Dell, HP, and other major vendors are that they typically don't sell computers with Windows disks. Usually its a spare recovery partition. Their setup makes it easier for people who don't know what they are doing to recover from catastrophe, but at the expense of overall flexibility and control for power users.
I'm not going to say that this is the wrong way to do things. I just prefer to have the disk since I can reformat and repartition on my own.
While I don't like this, I'm not really affected since I've never bought a PC from them, instead I build my own part by part. If I bought a Dell I'm sure the customized setup would annoy me to hell. - DangerCollie, on 04/06/2008, -3/+18"so a free Vista license to wipe my ass with is superfluous."
Finally, someone figures out a practical use for Vista. ;) - Phocion55, on 04/06/2008, -7/+22THEY? Who are "THEY"? I'm posting right now from my Dellbuntu box, and I love the system.
Stop making lame generalizations and blanketed accusations. - dreicher, on 04/06/2008, -2/+17Pretty simple really...Dell pays under $20 for Microsoft licenses, has the volume, support and procedures in place to deploy them painlessly and at a razor-thin margin. To offset, Musicmatch, AOL, Tangent, and so on and so on pay Dell to pre-install their crapware on Windows systems to more than offset any OS costs to MS. Really, is this all that difficult to figure out?
- funkyjunk3, on 04/06/2008, -1/+15Once a spammer, ALWAYS a spammer: http://digg.com/users/Seuss195
Report sent.
Shoo, Spammer, shoo!
you bad omen, you go now! - ToadLeg, on 04/06/2008, -4/+18You misunderstood it: it's not $225 more, it's the same price but comes with $225 more in hardware. Also, the whole point of buying it with Ubuntu is that you are just buying a machine to install Linux on, so why pay for a $50 "Vista license to wipe your ass with"?
- InspectorGadget, on 04/06/2008, -0/+13HAHA I googled "Stav Grossfeld" (the name in Seuss195's profile) and actually found a picture of him, according to the caption it was taken today. It's from some Dr. Seuss thing so it HAS to be him. http://seussaza.org/Default.aspx?tabid=282 HAHAHAHAH. How's 8th grade working out? Did you get held back? If I were a Digg spammer at 15, they'd find me at 17 drowned in a ***** toilet. Get a life.
- frontporsche, on 04/06/2008, -1/+13Sure, there's always some system out there that's cheaper, but if it's the Dell machine that you really like, and you're unwilling to contribute to the Microsoft legal-offense fund, ...
- ElectricSoup, on 04/06/2008, -4/+16This post deserves to be moderated up. Looking at the thread I can guess what the original article is going to say, and I think I'm going to skip it. I see saturn5 two posts up has also dissented but got marked down -- that's fair enough, because saturn5 is lacking in "language skills", too. But Aeuta deserves a hearing.
Now Dell's no angel: it is notorious for driving deals with it's suppliers that are so unfavourable that it's damaged a few irreparably. But the end-user, by contrast, doesn't get a bad deal from them, and isn't likely to in a cut-throat market like the commodity PC market where going to another supplier is always an option. Prices fluctuate a bit, and special offers come in and out, so you can't always guarantee that you'll get the best price and that you'll always pay less for a machine with pre-installed Linux on. That's just chance, and in the main the end-user is not paying bad prices for hardware from Dell or anyone else.
As for Dell being scared of Microsoft ... well, **of course it is**. People should pay attention to what people like Eric Raymond have already told them:
"Microsoft's entire pricing, contract, and licensing structure is designed with the primary aim of preventing any other operating-system vendor from getting a foothold on the desktop. They achieve this by making the opportunity cost of pre-installing a non-Windows operating system prohibitively high for any vendor who also needs to ship Windows. ... Vendors like Dell have repeatedly introduced, killed, reintroduced, and re-killed support for preinstalled Linux workstations. Michael Dell recently explained their current public policy, which boils down to the fact that installing Linux on custom orders of 50 systems or more doesn't piss off Microsoft, but offering it as a standard option preinstalled on desktops is something they're not allowed to do.[44] This isn't specific to any one vendor, but is a chronic problem with any large OEM whose business depends on the continuing goodwill of Microsoft. We just lost Linux preinstalls on the Thinkpad."
Read the whole thing:
http://catb.org/~esr/writings/world-domination/wor ...
The balance of power might have tilted a little since esr wrote that, but it's not titled that much.
I don't think you're going to see, for example, a high-profile nationwide TV advertising campaign from Dell pushing pre-installed Linux hard and pointing out its advantages. I'm sure they'd love to be able to do that, and I'm sure they'd really love to stick it to Microsoft. But MS would make life very difficult for them if they did. Maybe Dell would find they could no longer buy from MS at the prices they're currently paying. There are customers who want Windows and Office; and if Dell's current relations with Microsoft mean they can't offer machines with those at competitive prices then they lose to HP and all the others.
Being all angry at Dell solves nothing. And as Aeuta seems to be saying just makes Linux users in general look bad-tempered. And that's off-putting for uncommitted people who might be game to try a new OS, but who are not looking to sign on for a holy war. People could do worse than remember that Linus Torvalds himself said what he did was "Just for Fun":
http://www.amazon.com/Just-Fun-Story-Accidental-Re ... - kryptobs2000, on 04/06/2008, -0/+11I prefer to just use a pirated copy regardless if I own a legit disk or not because it's easier to reactivate
- HonoredMule, on 04/07/2008, -1/+11Meanwhile, Linux gains no credibility or market presence. It's not about the money that MS may or may not get, its about the continued marginalization of consumer choice caused by anti-competitive tactics.
- Brasky, on 04/06/2008, -1/+10No I think you misunderstand. It is cheaper to buy with windows because microsoft will subsidize some hardware cost to keep market share. So go out and buy the box with windows on it, because it is CHEAPER, and then wipe and install linux on it. Easy...
- MacSuxWindozSux, on 04/06/2008, -0/+9Why would they ever dump them? They are a volume customer.
- Macskeeball, on 04/07/2008, -0/+9From a business perspective, if Dell doesn't see sufficient sales of their Linux desktops, they will stop selling them. Being able to buy a Linux system from a mainstream vendor helps Linux' credibility and mindshare among the public at large. By buying a Linux based system instead of a Windows system, you are voting with your dollar.
- forgiste, on 04/06/2008, -0/+9what do you use man? I mean you've got an anti-tux icon, and your user id is macsuxwindozsux?? do you use BSD or something? Maybe OS/2 or BeOS?
- Chandon, on 04/06/2008, -1/+10Or maybe they're - get this - not a computer construction hobbyist. Some people have jobs, and are perfectly happy to pay to have someone else put together their computers.
- inactive, on 04/07/2008, -0/+9Well $40 is still a lot compared to $0; if you wipe the OS as soon as you get it, you're essentially handin over $40 to microsoft for nothing, ie they're getting a free ride. When you're voting with your wallet, pennies matter.
And secondly (and perhaps more importantly) it affects usage statistics. A computer that is sold with Windows pre-installed is another "computer running windows" in the eyes of the market, regardless of whether the OS is wiped as soon as it arrives. - hoverX, on 04/06/2008, -1/+10"Microsoft is inches away from dumping them" hahahahahaha
- dark_helmet, on 04/06/2008, -0/+8I know people who worked in a Canadian Dell call center. They did have one person supporting linux machines. He got very few calls, so they assigned him to supporting XPS machines with windows.
- neil1492, on 04/06/2008, -1/+9Your preaching to the choir.
- MacSuxWindozSux, on 04/07/2008, -1/+9Every OS sucks.
- Shadowgamers, on 04/06/2008, -6/+14I AM OUTRAGED AND APPALLED THAT APPLE ISN'T OFFERING A LINUX DISTRO! THEY'LL BE READING MY ANGER ON MY BLOG!
- inactive, on 04/06/2008, -0/+8i have no idea the relevance of this comment to anything what so ever, so your getting dugg down, now get off of the computer, go play with your toys and let us adults speak in peace
- LVDave, on 04/06/2008, -0/+8As long as you buy from the Dell outlet, you can't build a equivalent machine for less than you pay thru the outlet.. I have two Dell Optiplex GX620 systems I bought about a year ago, at the same time we were buying the same model at work.. We paid $985 apiece for these systems, and I bought my two from the outlet for $419 and $319 respectively.. These were P4D/2.8Ghz/512MB/80GB systems, and came with the same 3 year warantee we got on the work machines.. And both of them run Ubuntu (32bit/7.04 on one and 64bit/7.10 on the other) swimmingly.. The XP that came one them was booted once to make sure the system worked, then was wiped... Laptops are a great deal there also.. I just bought a Vostro 1400 (Core2Duo/2GB/160GB) that would have cost me nearly $900 if I'd spec'ed it on the regular website.. I paid $549 from the outlet, and it runs Ubuntu 100% out of the box..
- darthbator, on 04/06/2008, -0/+8Yeah I'm not digging this. I actually paid more for my m1330n then I would have should I have bought the same laptop using windows. I think I paid about 45$ more, however it was worth it to me to vote for the Cannocial/Dell partnership with my consumer dollar. The only way linux on the Desktop from a big vendor like dell is going to work is if they see the Ubuntu machines generating revenue. There's a lot of truth in the article, yes dell is reactionary in their linux offerings/support. And yes they do have the laptops (and desktops?) priced in a way that you get better hardware by adding a tick into the "with windows" column in their sales inventory and installing linux yourself. But rather then getting mad about how things should be I think it's more important to point out to people that if you don't pay that extra cash and generate sales from the Ubuntu line it's headed into the graveyard with past Linux desktop offerings. (BTW you can do that RAM upgrade yourself at newegg for 40$).
- Chandon, on 04/06/2008, -4/+11If you buy the Dell with Ubuntu on it, you get two things:
1.) When you call tech support, they don't get confused when you don't have start menu.
2.) You are 100% sure that there isn't some random Windows-only network card or something.
I guess if you really want a new Windows license then your plan is reasonable - but you better not come onto some Linux forums complaining that you can't get your ***** wireless card working after intentionally choosing not to buy supported hardware. - secleinteer, on 04/06/2008, -1/+8I think it's more about the principle of not giving money to Microsoft that bothers some people (though I really don't care about that).
- haiduz, on 04/07/2008, -4/+11Dell is going completely out of its way to legitimize Ubuntu in the eyes of the general public and all the fanboys like this author can do is trash this company. Honestly, with reactions like these its no surprise that no major vendors support linux for the home comsumer market. the article was just complaining that the Windows PC was ON SALE while the Ubuntu one wasnt. Its not like the ram upgrade is permanent. That was just the special for that week.
Actually, In theory Ubuntu machines should be equal to or more expensive that the windows ones because the fixed costs of maintaining separate tech support and dedicated product lines is spread among MUCH FEWER customers than the windows PCs.
BTW: I installed ubuntu on my Dell Laptop (and then had to completely reinstalled it because something went wrong) so I could dual boot into windows. Then one day, I decided to install the phun application. In the phun application I decided to try to select full screen... THAT WAS A MISTAKE. The operation somehow messed up the boot sequence, and now every single time I hibernate or shut down my laptop and try to turn in back on, it does not recognize my hard drive. Thus I have to manually turn the computer or and off until it randomly recognizes my hard drive on like the 8th try. So my advice is this: if youre thinking about trying out Ubuntu realize that it has the potential to completely mess up your computer because of hardware/software incompatibilities.
Ironically, support from major vendors would be a great incentive for component manufacturers to work out the hardware compatibilities. However, the linux fanboys love to bitch about the great injustices they suffer when they are disenfranchised because of their god given birth right to choose an operating system. Of course, in reality such actions only leads to major vendors to alienate them in fear of eliciting headlines like "Dell Linux Scam" for their effort to please an ungrateful community. - 5urr3al5am, on 04/06/2008, -2/+9that, and Dell (any big company) is screwed if people get Linux, and then get an in-store maintenance plan/warranty, because they most likely don't have the correct staff, on any level, that knows anything about Linux.
- pcx99, on 04/06/2008, -1/+7Well first off, it's pretty difficult to build a laptop. Second, the Linux community's self-professed goal is Linux for the masses and the masses do not build computers they USE computers.
- inactive, on 04/07/2008, -1/+7You lack the intelligence of a monkey, let alone a human. And everything you said is ***** and incorrect.
- Chandon, on 04/06/2008, -4/+10So... a barebones machine where you install your own processor is cheaper than a completely built and tested system with support. No *****, Sherlock. If you're buying a Dell, you're paying extra to have it work when you unpack it - and to have someone to call and ship it to if it breaks. Running Linux instead of Windows doesn't change this.
- tolbs, on 04/06/2008, -0/+6Wow nice uhh, inspecting, Inspector Gadget. :)...Kids these days, spamming and such.
I really don't want to know what "French Man Adventure Night" was all about: http://cms.seussaza.org/Pictures/tabid/90/path/Fre ... - inactive, on 04/06/2008, -1/+7I was just going to paste the same exact thing. GET OUT OF MY HEAD!
- hassanchop13, on 04/06/2008, -0/+5to the many people talking about upgrades, custom built computers, and whatnot: i assume most diggers would only even consider dell's for laptops, so thats a moot point. the XPS 15 inch laptops are quite nice, and you could always install linux for free, so it doesnt really concern me that much; however, installing linux by default could be important to helping the average user decide to try it out.
- mrsteveman1, on 04/06/2008, -3/+8Well, the argument people make is that they don't want to pay the Microsoft tax, but it amounts to very little with XP, probably around $40 out of a $499 box.
The other thing is, refusing to pay the MS tax isn't hurting Microsoft in any way, you aren't going to hit their bottom line by knocking off $40 for every box people want to run Linux on. It's insignificant to them. - Soken, on 04/06/2008, -0/+5linux users buy dell computers?
- RevoFM, on 04/07/2008, -0/+5Couldn't imagine why.
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