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300 Comments
- fasda, on 10/10/2007, -26/+67Why do people on the internet care so much about what other people are using for an OS? Whats the big deal if people chose to buy their software from a company instead of receiving a free one from the Linux community its their choice. I probably wouldn't be complaining if people just wanted to inform the populace on their views but everywhere I go people make Linux sound like they're fighting the Nazis or something.
- hambend, on 10/10/2007, -4/+44I'm really not fanatical about what software others choose to use, but still it's something that affects my life directly. As long as IE is the market leader standards will stall. Opera, Safari and Firefox all support interesting new markup, but you won't see it on any website until Microsoft release their next version. Not to mention what must be hundreds of thousands, if not millions of hours in productivity lost to supporting Internet Explorer idioms.
For maybe the last 12 years the ubiquity of the .doc format allowed Microsoft to set the pace for office software. Even though there are now free alternatives, we're still in the same situation as with the internet; if Microsoft doesn't do it, no one else will.
Virtually since its inception Microsoft has acted like an anchor for software (and hardware) development. They drag their feet constantly, sometimes deliberately and sometimes out of incompetence, but always the rest of the market is forced to follow at the same crippled pace. They've been working from the same codebase for so long it must be close to unmaintainable, and yet due to their near-monopoly any little bug or idiom in their software becomes an ironclad standard. Even Microsoft themselves have been stung by this, when they tried and failed to rewrite Windows from scratch (Longhorn). Trying to make an all-new codebase compatible with the current Windows must be an exercise in futility.
I could go on, but like I say I'm not really fanatical about this stuff. I hope I don't sound like I'm fighting the Nazis, but I do think we'd all be better off if Microsoft were marginalized to the point where they have to follow standards rather than setting them. - SirBotchness, on 10/10/2007, -10/+42Yep this is the end for microsoft, i see everyone in the business industry dropping windows and microsoft office for ubuntu and open office. Good job.
- kerms, on 10/10/2007, -9/+40another microsoft is going to fall article?
- thomasprebble, on 10/10/2007, -12/+34Reminds me of a funny story regarding XAML. A group of their evangelists were flown down from Auckland to give our computer science department a "student day". Towards the end they demonstrated XAML and we were all amazed by it until someone asked if it will run on Firefox. When it was made clear it would only work on IE everyone broke into laughter.
- schestowitz, on 10/10/2007, -20/+39They are not sufficiently-crippled yet. What we need to do at this point is ensure that the new shackles (e.g. XAML/OOXML/XPS) are broken before they start a new wave of lockins. Meanwhile, Linux conquers part of the OEM channel, which is hugely important. Free software is gradually winning, but Microsoft plays dirty with 'deals', patents, and embrace to destroy tactics (OSI is the latest victim... maybe even SpikeSource).
- lickmyback, on 10/10/2007, -7/+24No.
- Phocion55, on 10/10/2007, -5/+17I don't mind people choosing Microsoft over Linux. They have the freedom to choose whatever they want.
And that's my problem with Microsoft. Love Linux or hate it......what's undeniable is the fact that Microsoft will stop at NOTHING to take away that freedom everyone is entitled to. Sometimes there ARE other products out there that are better/just as good as Microsoft's offerings. That's when they start throwing legal papers at people, paying off lobbyists, and throwing FUD all over the place. - MioTheGreat, on 10/10/2007, -3/+11What? I'm perfectly correct. Straight up WPF is a presentation framework designed to replace Winforms. Silverlight is its little brother, the part you should be running in browser (It is true that IE7 can execute some XAML code, but what it can do has been scaled back since the Avalon days, probably around the same time plans for Silverlight (WPF/e at the time) were being drawn up).
You don't demo a framework designed for designing Windows apps inside a browser any more than you'd demo some new CSS spec by using your word processor. - libbydib, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9"any GNU/Linux user would immediately recognize xfce as the window manager in the more recent releases of the Mac OS."
Mac OS uses XFCE? Is this true? - MioTheGreat, on 10/10/2007, -3/+11Eh? XAML is just a markup language for WPF and Silverlight. Most WPF apps shouldn't be run in a browser anyway, that's what Silverlight is for, and it just so happens to work in Firefox, and on OSX.
Virtually all WPF XAML code will be run by standalone apps, not by browsers. Giving a demo of WPF in a browser is a stupid idea anyway. - rushtrue, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9Um yea...I can't quite remember, but doesn't Linux hold a large share of the server platform market? I mean most of the mail exchangers, DNS servers, and webservers run Linux in some form or another. Without those servers, the internet would not really function. So, I don't really see your point that Linux will never be interesting outside the computer science community.
- thomasprebble, on 10/10/2007, -4/+11Unfortunately no. Just look at the mess with the BBC and Digg adopting MS Ads.
- burningbush, on 10/10/2007, -2/+9Yes, yell it from the mountain tops. You hit the nail right on the head. I am a front end web developer, and Internet Explorer has got to be mine, and everyone else in my positions worst nightmare.
- cliffzdude, on 10/10/2007, -3/+10As one who is fully OS and software agnostic, I fail to see why any company needs to be "sufficiently-crippled" in the first place. Maybe your chosen skill-set if rather one sided?
Reminds me of Microsoft heads who are scared of open source, by the other token you have OSS heads whose skill-set is also just as as one sided. They "hate" anything that isn't 'nix and/or OSS.
To be a computer and computing professional is to be software and OS agnostic. A fit for your need may not be a fit somewhere else. Open Office is great, but it doesn't fit an accounting department that has years worth of man hour equity in deeply programmed spreadsheets. Sure, one who doesn't work in the enterprise thinks this is rare, but it really isn't. Same goes for a firm with literally hundreds of boiler-plate Word and Power Point documents, say nothing for the business power users who sharpened their skills on the Office Suite. Ok, so Open Office isn't really a good fit here, let's just be honest about it. Then comes the basic low end users whose company pays for office because they don't know otherwise. They're a perfect fit for Open Office. One size does *not* fit all...
Computer professionals who want to fly in the industry need to open up to *computing*, and leave the bickering behind. - FluffyArmada, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8While I'm not entierly sure about the inherent security capabilities of microsoft's server software versus the foss, I'm pretty sure the most important thing in network security is having an admin that knows what he's doing.
- Avalontor, on 10/10/2007, -2/+8you replaced an 'S' with a '$', how old are you? grow up, that was childish last year, now it's just downright annoying.
- schoate09, on 10/10/2007, -4/+10Burried as inaccurate.
- orion846, on 10/10/2007, -5/+11Microsoft losing its dominance is as inevitable as the bush impeachment.
digg, bringing the delusional to a front page near you, 24/7 - Fartag, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5On one hand philosophical, on the other technical.
First, the philosophical. This question is similar to why an atheist or agnostic could be upset that people believe different things in society. Suppose a religion is dominant in their community. To them, they may want to live under a more rational set of laws, whereas the majority religion has laid out a different set...
As for the technical, Microsoft is a business first and foremost and they are there to make money. This is great, except they're also a monopoly and have employed anti-competitive tactics for over a decade. By anti-competitive tactics, I mean things like forced vendor lock-in through forced incompatibilities, closed file formats as monopoly standard, embrace extend and extinguish tactics, and so on. A monopoly controlling a key infrastructure such as Operating Systems, (etc.) that is also anti-competitive stunts technology growth in a multitude of ways. Competition is stunted, killed or coerced. Beneficial diversification requires a much greater effort to occur. But, Microsoft is in it for the money and control, not for "innovation" or progress. If you're an investor or worker for Microsoft then Microsoft has been great for you, if you're dependent on them due to vendor lock-in then it's costly to break away. For those wanting tech to spread as fast as it possibly can, they're not beneficial. The market is slow to leave a Monopoly, and they have the resources to hang in there for a long time.
For now though we have viable and better alternatives despite that it was exceedingly difficult to get to that point. We've reworked, we've reverse engineered for some uncooperative vendors, we've invented new technologies, and _truly_ innovated to get to this point where mostly true innovation is what's left ahead. That is why people are getting so excited these days. The basis is there, and people are vocal when they recognize this and push very hard for it. It can't be stopped or marginalized, but the faster it spreads, the faster it benefits us all. - drjekelmrhyde, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5Microsoft PAID millions to develope Vista why in the hell shouldnt they cash in
- Fartag, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Say what? They lost because they were distributing and using GPL'd source code without releasing their source as well (also not including GPL license text). You're not supposed to do that. And if somebody shipped closed source software on a whim (say, something like Microsoft CE or whatever) with their company software they would most certainly be sued into oblivion!
Also you claim via a lawsuit FUD argument that this is any reason to switch to commercialized UNIX which is ridiculous. The premise is invalid, and also trying to copy and distribute that (etc.) will not fare well in the courts either. GPL is _freer_ than copyright in distribution, it restricts only that which prevents/inhibits redistribution in closed source forms . Compare this to copyright where any redistribution is prohibited entirely (barring deals etc. w/ copyright owner). - mashw, on 10/10/2007, -1/+6Exactly. It's like the people to hate Walmart, unfounded and puerile.
- MadLeper, on 10/10/2007, -8/+13Not a day seems to go by without some article spouting the virtues of FOSS over the evil of Microsoft. Honestly, is this some sort of organized FUD campaign from the FSF ? I’ve never seen such a flood of amateurish, ill-informed and just flat out lying bullcrap spewing from the mouths of the Linux zealots as I have on Digg for the past few weeks.
If you’re using Linux/FOSS and you’re happy, good for you. If you’re using Linux/FOSS and you can’t get any satisfaction except by slagging people who choose to use an OS you don’t, then do us all a favor and take up knitting instead of computing, you’ll be much happier. - maccam94, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5It's being really slow after only 30 diggs.
http://www.duggmirror.com - imikedaman, on 10/10/2007, -8/+12Not only does it not matter, but it seems like this type of article pops up tens of times each year, each time proclaiming to be *the* time Linux starts catching up with big Microsoft. Hey guess what guys, Microsoft is still dominating.
- VanD, on 10/10/2007, -8/+12No.
- Bilbobaggins, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7Nothing lasts forever, take the Walkman for example. It was once dominant in the industry. Then iPods came along. I'm sure the iPod won't last forever either..
- gwolf, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4Could you be a little more condescending. Believe it or not we are not all idiots. I am aware of what Microsoft is doing with their OS, I just don't ascribe the sinister motives to it that you seem to.
- jeclips, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7To quote someone, (can't remember who)
"Linux is free if your time is worthless"
OS X won't take over until it can be use with any hardware. Lots of people out there like to build their own system. I've heard mac people talk about how cheap the next OS will be compared to Vista, compare the price to the upgrade for vista (essentially the same thing since you have to own a mac to use the new OS) and guess what. Pretty much the same price. Yes the new OS does have high points but like I said, until you can install a Mac OS on any PC I don't see it taking over.
I haven't used linux in a while but the general problem with Linux and companies is the lack of support. (Which you have to pay to get). Nothing is free. You end up paying somewhere along the lines. - Phocion55, on 10/10/2007, -5/+9Please don't associate "success" with "borderline illegal/unethical/shady business tactics"
- gmgartner, on 10/10/2007, -2/+6I agree that the lack of accepted standards on Microsoft's part is frustrating. I'll get a layout looking exactly how I want it using only standard css only to see it mangled in IE. I have to then tweak the css so the design looks good on both mozilla and IE. On the service side, I have to know MS products because that is what 99% of my clients use. All operating systems have their idiosyncrasies. My issue with Microsoft is their model: development is driven by marketing whereas free/open source software development is driven by innovation.
- EXreaction, on 10/10/2007, -3/+7When will YOU ever learn to use the REPLY section?
- tdous, on 10/10/2007, -1/+5Dreams = reality in Appleland.
- noahhoward, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Absolutely spot-on, Hambend. It isn't just having to hack your CSS to cover IE, that only take a few minutes, the bigger problem is the way it resricts new and potentially useful standards that are implemented rapidly by everyone but Microsoft. When CSS finally supports columns, how long will we have to wait for this very logical ability to show up in IE? I'm still waiting on proper implementation of the box model.
- Sheetz, on 10/10/2007, -3/+6short answer no, long answer, no way in hell
- init100, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Does OS X *use* the X Window System? I don't think so. There is an X server available so that you can run X programs, but that does not mean that the OS X GUI is built using X.
- nakani, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4Haha you're so right. Those who know laugh at all of the goofballs who bicker about KDE v. Gnome, Java v. C++, Windows v. Linux v. OS X. It's funny because most of the time the people arguing for the divinity of their chosen side have either 1) never tried the other offerings or 2) only dabbled slightly in it. Meanwhile, those of us laughing at these fools have used all of the platforms/tools and are versatile enough to apply our generalized skillsets to whatever specific situation we need
Also, describing yourself or others as a 'fanboy' is for 16 year olds IMO - jstone, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3A moderate request: If you're going to digg people down, at least have the common courtesy to state what it is you disagree with. Some (most, I would believe) people like to have a rebuttal.
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5Exactly. How many of these do we need to ***** see. It's like the boy that cried WOLF. No one gives a ***** after a while.
- dengzhi, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5u forgot the /sarcasm tag
- Noctem, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5oh, another 'i like socialism, everything should be free, lets redistribute wealth and punish those who ever make any kind of a profit' post.
- tony134340, on 10/10/2007, -2/+4You ever used any linux distro? I know pretty much any Nvidia card can be overclocked on almost any distro of Linux. I've done it for years. Next time know about a product before you talk in disfavor of it.
- iliketoprogram, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2i don't think they said that all software would be free if ms never existed.. think think think a few before you babble
- tdous, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I love how you keep presenting yourself as this platform agnostic non-fanboy with your Apple logo image and consistently pro-Apple stance. I am a Windows user (yeah sucker, whatever.. see below).
1) I disagree that OSX looks "amazing all of the time". That makes me want to vomit. I do not like the visual style of Apple's OS or other software - iTunes/Safari/Quicktime on Windows have that same style for example. It's personal preference and while I don't HATE it, I find it far from amazing. Also there is no reason apart from Apple's right to decide that it is so, that OSX should not be usable on other hardware than their own, especially now with processor normalization. I do not want to have to buy their hardware in order to do my "computing". If I was a fan of OSX that would still be the case and I would want to build my machines to my specs and install OSX on there myself - or buy reasonably priced hardware, Dell style, perhaps with OSX preloaded. Not pay Apple prices for Apple only hardware. Also, I do not care what my PC actually looks like so form is not a factor for me here.
2) Largely agree with the Linux assessment, though I rarely encounter the bugs you speak of as though they're so frequent and do not find installation complicated. The problem is more one of standardizing of procedures where so different distros can currently do things in different ways. I guess what will have to happen is that, rather than "linux" as a grand unifying platform coming together and formalizing approaches, one distro probably needs to pull ahead with corporate support, perhaps in the way Ubuntu is beginning to do, at least in terms on mindshare.
3) I can't remember the last time I had a Windows machine crash. I've had software on it crash - games, apps and even third party drivers have spat on my shoes - but Windows itself never gives me a problem and has given me very few from 98 onwards, despite that and each version since' reputation. I don't know what it is - perhaps it's that I take better care of my machine than most people and secure it properly. Or perhaps the operating system used by 90% of the world generates a greater number of horror stories by virtue of it's ubiquity and it's actually all just blown right out of proportion. Either way, it always feels quick, responsive, never crashes for me, and the ONE piece of software that I want out of all the differnet kinds of game or app that I can't have is Textmate which is currently Mac only. But I get by.
All in all, what Windows provides for me has always been perfectly fine for me and yeah, I paid for it. Perhaps you think I'm a sucker for doing so. It doesn't matter to me because I can afford to pay for it and I like what I pay for. This post is not intended to further an argument. It's an expression of personal opinion and satisfaction, and it should serve as an indicator to why they still hold a large marketshare - because despite the rumour and innuendo, the overblown stories of endless failure that are inevitable for such a widespread package as Windows, it's as fine for most of the 90% user-base as it always has been for me. I will switch when I find it worth switching. It's not. That's what holds other platforms back. - Darcy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2"Reminds me of a funny story regarding XAML. A group of their evangelists were flown down from Auckland to give our computer science department a "student day". Towards the end they demonstrated XAML and we were all amazed by it until someone asked if it will run on Firefox. When it was made clear it would only work on IE everyone broke into laughter."
What was being demoed?
WPF is for standalone Windows apps, and is Windows only.
Silverlight is a subset of WPF for the web, and can be used in multiple browsers, including FF & Safari, for Windows and OS X.
- Stemp, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Anyway if they are using Internet, they are using open source software, even if they are unaware of it.
- multitude, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Linux is an operating system. In that respect, it is like Mac OS X or Microsoft Windows. The difference is in the fact that it is community created and supported, and thus incredibly "open". Whereas proprietary operating systems exist to make profit for the companies that created them, Linux is meant for people to use. This is why I anticipate Linux gaining more market share, and why I dug you down.
- GMorgan, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Well I've used all of those extensively (bar OS X which I've used enough to hold a reasonable opinion). In my dictionary C++ redirects you to mess. I can use it but will walk on water before I willingly do so. It's not about divinity, it's about the best tool for the job. One high level language is not as good as another (outside of Turing equivalence).
It's important to know how to use all these technologies. Many people hate Java but I don't think many would say that it isn't a vital language to know in most circumstances right now. The point is that one technology is better than another but it's important to have breadth to your knowledge even to the point of understanding the technologies you'd wish would just die. -
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