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66 Comments
- rmjb, on 10/12/2007, -2/+24Dell "Open-Source" Notebooks:
http://www.dell.com/content/products/features.aspx/nseries_nb?c=us&cs=04&l=en&s=bsd&~ck=mn
- rmjb - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19well Linux compatible hardware would include nivida support only no ati thats for sure!
- falstaff, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17As opposed to a "Retirement Home phenomenon" organized by people who've never heard of Linux? Of course it was organized by Linux fans (who are primarily connected by the web), who else would do such a thing?
- rmjb, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14Why am I being dugg down? The guy asked for notebooks with no OS and I provided a link to that...
- rmjb - JQP123, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12"For this reason, I don’t think it makes any sense for Walmart to sell low-cost Linux PC’s..."
Wow! Someone in the Open Source community who actually understands the retail market. Very unusual.
The only way it might make sense for Walmart is if the low-cost Linux PCs were sold without any support under a strict "no-return" policy except for hardware warranty defects. - WiseBoy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Good points! But I wished Dell or other companies could offer at least no OS laptops. I can set up and run Linux on my machine. But it is very hard to find a good deal on no OS laptops.
- pathy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I almost had a heart attack reading this article.
I was expecting a rant and an attack on Microsoft. *****, that took me by surprise. - khag7, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9I bet no OS would be more popular than Linux just because 95% of the people who want linux could set it up themselvs and Dell will definitely charge at least 50 or 100 dollars for Linux (an "Installation fee"). I want Dell to be a hardware store. I can buy the computer there, but let me handle the software myself.
- obe1kenobi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Yes, but Microsoft can't say anything if Dell picks SUSE, because of their deal with Novell to support each others products.
- ray901, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Shuttleworth is not an OSS version of Ballmer.
Ballmer is unique and fits MS's marketing strategy perfectly. - SPLASTiK, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5^^^
Why not 3 options?
1. Windows
2. Linux
3. No OS Install? - Namco, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@rmjb, don't worry man, the calvary is here to save your replies :)
+digg - cmiz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Shuttleworth brings up a few valid points about avid Linux users being VERY particular about their hardware... but that's missing the entire point of pre-installed linux. Pre-installed linux is for the masses who DON'T know much about linux. If you know enough about linux to prefer one piece of hardware over another, then you probably don't NEED a pre-installed machine, right? I certainly would try to support any company that pre-installed linux though...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7Most Walmart shoppers wouldn't know what a PC is anyway.
- jjk5, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6"This helps get deer's support"
I'm afraid I don't follow. How do deer factor into this equation? - cquinnd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Walmart doesn't care whats on the PC, only that it has a low enough price to draw more people into the store.
They would probably make a deal to have the same return policy as most other items sold there,
Walmart sends the item right back to the manufacturer, and they get to eat the cost of the return/replacement. Plus the PC maker would have to provide some sort of back end support once the PC leaves the store. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Don't dig him down people, he is right.
And hopefully walmart wont do it, because witha no return policy on a Linux box, guess who will fix them all for your uncles and that aunt that call once a year...
Nerds like us. - Chandon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3andyrobo60:
What *possible* reason could you have for not wanting companies to offer Linux pre-installed? If you don't want it, don't buy it.
Or are you afraid that if they offer Linux pre-installed you wont be able to find a no-OS system to install pirated Windows on? Don't think you can figure out how to uninstall Linux? - greeblesnort, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3While I don't necessarily disagree with your first statement, I do disagree with some of the reasons why. Your "b" is probably the biggest issue that I can see with, for example, a decent Ubuntu desktop.
If Dell were to take my suggestion and simply create an "appliance", setting up reasonable defaults for everything a normal user would want, the rest of your issues fall away (especially "f"). Meanwhile, the experts mod the hell out of it, creating yet another community to support Dell's product. - Linguino, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Does history repeat itself? Do people forget the past? Do these two questions exist as two sides of the same coin?
Dell did this with AMD a few times, just to get a better deal with Intel. - cry0x, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Contrary to popular belief, your Average Joe isn't the majority of revenue for companies like HP and Dell. It's business... enterprise. IT managers making IT decisions. One of those decisions lately has been to use Linux instead of Vista. HP and Dell are listening.
- Wootery, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3If you're an advanced enough computer user to put together your own system, then yes, there'd be no point getting a Dell.
An experienced Linux user would probably prefer his new system not to have any OS preloaded, as he probably wants to run a specific distro (eg Kubuntu rather than Ubuntu). - shifty2, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It will take time even for big PC manufactures like Dell to support pre-installed Linux. They will have to spend a good amount of time and money to train new technical support reps to accurately troubleshoot and fix an OS or linux specific application. If they started to sell pre-installed Linux boxes and people started calling about installing apps, drivers or how-to's and there would be chaos. No one will like it, people will start returning their computers and be quite dissatisfied with that company and Linux. once they can get a full time linux support team together and finalize all the hardware and especially drivers, this could work in the long run.
- greeblesnort, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4They are going about this completely wrong. Don't sell a "PC with linux pre-installed". Sell a "Web browsing email appliance" that just so happens to run a stock or Dell-branded linux distro and then actively support the modding community that pops up around it. Done.
- WiseBoy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@rmjb, thank you! But I don't live in the United States and I've never heard about no OS laptop in retail stores. I might be wrong though.
- lidflipper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I guess I don't get this whole debate. I like to tinker around with Linux / Ubuntu, but I don't think I would ever desire to have it come preinstalled. That's not to say that it's not a good OS, or that Vista is any better. However, if I log onto the Dell website and see computer "A" for $1000 with Vista or Computer "B" for $1000 with Ubuntu I would, without a doubt choose computer A. Now if computer B was only $700 that would be a different story, but I don't see how Dell could pull this off. Remember, to MOST people Windows is "free." Also, anyone who would desire Linux is Probobly smart enough to download an iso and install it in about an hour (if that). Isn't the best thing about Linux getting it to work right anyway. :-)
EDIT: Oops, why didn't spell check pop up....oh-well. - StrawberryFrog, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4"On the face of it, there is little question that Linux pre-installation is popular with customers."
Yes, there is a big question over it.. Borland made this mistake with Kylix (Delphi on linux) in assuming that a clamour on the message boards from the vocal fans with nothing better to do with their time is the same thing as popularity with genuine potential customers with money to spend. - ldog, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It's not unfair to think that if Suse got picked, hardware support would be proprietary to that OS and windows.
If they picked ubuntu or fedora or debian you can be reasonably sure that the hardware will have open source drivers or at least drivers accessible to other distros.
Dells first response in picking Novell shows that they're still scared of Microsoft or only making a half-assed attemp at a Linux desktop. Hopefully they listen to the specifics of the so called "Fussy" Linux users. - Chandon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Lots of companies offer good deals on laptops with Linux preloaded or with no OS. For example, http://www.system76.com (Linux preloaded) and http://www.powernotebooks.com (no OS).
Just remember these three things:
1.) If you're seeing a big price difference, you're probably getting screwed somewhere. Screen size? Battery life? Low end discrete graphics?
2.) Intel Integrated Graphics are an *advantage* for Linux - it's strictly better unless you plan on playing very recent 3D games. That's the reason why Linux vendors don't offer low-end discrete graphics - either get decent discrete graphics (i.e. 7600 / X1600) or stick with Intel Integrated.
3.) Make sure you actually compare similar products from both vendors. A 15.4" widescreen laptop with a Celeron processor *will* be cheaper than a Core 2 Duo and a 14" screen. - deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You're over estimating the level of support OEM's offer. Your typical OEM offers:
-Hardware warranty coverage
-Help reinstalling your operating system
-Limited support for bundled software - tech42er, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Ahem...Dell sells AMD PC's and advertises them pretty aggressively. It's not just to get a better deal from Intel. A good amount of people with Dells are running on AMD processors.
- tech42er, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@khaq7: a preinstalled OS GUARANTEES Linux support. That's what I care about most.
- JQP123, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"All I want is hardware support. All most people want is hardware support for my WiFi and my graphics card. That's it (and maybe a Winmodem)."
All most people want is "computer support". They don't know or care if it's hardware or software related, they just want it to work. - JQP123, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"Walmart already sells a PC with Linux."
Yes and there is so support whatsoever from Walmart.
The hardware is only warranted by the manufacturer (Microtel), software support is basically unknown/not addressed. - Chandon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1OrangeTide:
The thing is, the components that work with Linux are just as readily available as the components that don't work. They're not any more expensive. In fact, in some cases like Intel Integrated Graphics vs. Nvidia integrated graphics, the supported component is both cheaper and produced in larger volume. If Dell was supporting Linux at all, the cheapest and easiest thing would be to just favor Linux-supported components everywhere.
lidflipper:
I admit to being an *****. That fact doesn't change the fact that people who think that saving $5 on their computer is worth posting an angry message in a help forum are also *****. Other people's time is worth something, and wasting it with questions that you could have easily answered on your own or entirely avoided by a simple choice like picking known-working hardware simply isn't polite. - OrangeTide, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Likely a Linux computer would cost more. You are probably thinking "what? no way." but as another poster mentioned you want your wireless card to work. You will also want your video card to work. You have to choose the hardware you wish to use with Linux carefully if you want maximum support and reliability. In turn what happens is this alternate configuration is not produced in nearly as large of runs, and the economies of scale reflect that in the final price.
In addition Dell has to hire special people who know how to setup and install and test and manufacture Linux boxes. They certainly can use some of their people from their server group. - OrangeTide, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1There are plenty of options besides Dell without having to assemble your own system. (their Laptops are terrible too). So many Dell fanbois on here.
- Zehuti, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2And if you asked all those people who wanted pre-installed linux which distro they wanted, you would problably get 20 diffrent answers.
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Apple did solidify the Linux base to some extent. We have seen an explosion of development since.
- lidflipper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@Chandon
Wow, your an A-hole.
"I'd be able to just post 'You should have bought the computer with Linux on it so you'd know your hardware was supported, dumbass'."
That is one of the most ignorant things I've ever read. Again, anyone who would want to install Linux should be able to figure that out. And if not, there is a large community of helpful people out there that are happy to help out. Unless they run into you. Good thing there are about 100 helpful Linux users out there for every jerk like yourself. - tech42er, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1How about laptops? I want a cheap laptop that's compatible with Linux.
- Chandon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1tech42er:
Decent laptops start at about $700. It's true that you'll occasionally see a crappy one marked lower than that with a mail in rebate or whatever, but there's a certain point at which pinching pennies is just a bad deal. You'll be much better off just paying what it costs to get a decent laptop that works rather than going through contortions to get the cheapest piece of junk Wallmart.com has to offer.
If you're willing to spend the $700, I suggest picking up a System76 Gazelle Value. http://system76.com/product_info.php/cPath/1/products_id/193 - that thing looks awesome.
If you want to pinch pennies, you can get as cheap as something like the PowerNotebooks Crown P 10:4 for $620 while still getting a reliable computer (their support is amazing)
http://www.powernotebooks.com/product.php?itemId=1792
As for going with something like Dell, sure they claim that their Inspirons start at $599, but that's with ATI integrated graphics (horrible Linux support) and Dell brand wireless (questionable Linux support). Just solving those two issues will cost you more than the $20 more that the PowerNotebooks laptop costs. Once you start getting into issues like battery life, you're better off just starting with the higher quality retailer. - Chandon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1That's really amusing. They could even just ship stock Ubuntu with some menu items removed.
- tech42er, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Hardware support is what matters. A preloaded distro ensures hardware support. Dell's word is not as reliable IMHO.
- Chandon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Support is on a script. It would take them a couple grand to update their script to include Linux. A couple grand is nothing. The script would still always end with "use your restore CD" or "we don't support that application / peripheral that you didn't buy from us".
- pHr34kY, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Shipping a PC without an OS would work well. Most people would either:
- Install Linux
or
- Pirate Windows
Mark Shuttleworth is correct that we are fussy. But honestly, he should think about marketing Linux to the ignorant end-user and let the geeks take care of themselves. So what if my PC came preloaded with another Linux Distro? I'll just format it and install the one I want! The fact is that you need to give the consumer SOMETHING that works out of the box. I personally get agitated when I am forced to pay for software that I will never use. If it's preloaded and it's free I won't get the slightest bit annoyed about having to discard it. - tech42er, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Dell doesn't have to support the software, just the hardware, but must guarantee the hardware works with the software. And if you want to look at an optimized Linux laptop (they exist) look at R Cubed and System76.
- tech42er, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1All I want is hardware support. All most people want is hardware support for my WiFi and my graphics card. That's it (and maybe a Winmodem).
- tech42er, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Laptop?
- cquinnd, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1You must have missed out on several years when Dell was an Intel only operation.
-
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