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Shuttleworth and Ubuntu keep moving on up

itwire.com — Ten years from now, if Linux has managed to gain something like 10 per cent or more of the desktop market and continues to maintain its lead in the server market, one person would have to take a goodly share of the credit - Mark Shuttleworth.

Who dugg this? Made popular Aug 15, 2008

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  • Wookie, on 08/15/2008, -5/+61I've been using Linux since the 1.x kernel series and I appreciate somebody finally stepping up and making Linux easier to use. At some point you have to stop fiddling with the foundation so that you can move on to creating higher value on top of it. I never liked hand editing a dozen config files every time I installed Linux on a new machine.
  • Netik09, on 08/15/2008, -4/+32Love Ubuntu.
  • leerayIG88, on 08/15/2008, -2/+27I use linux as our servers because I like the penguin.
  • Vadi0, on 08/15/2008, -1/+25Having a guy who has a fortune devoting his life to making Linux work is certainly nice.
  • highlymodified, on 08/15/2008, -0/+21After a little tinkering with Ubuntu to get it as shiny and customized to my usage as possible, I'm never going back to windows and OSX (while closer to ideal) just isn't the same.

    Canonical's mission to make Ubuntu as pretty and user-friendly as possible while retaining the strengths of Linux will usher in a new era of desktop computing, one where ***** is a whole lot more free...not to mention stable :D

  • rowjimmy, on 08/15/2008, -0/+20wow. just wow.

    i think people like the command line because it is WAY more efficient than using a gui. sure, a gui for certain complex operations makes a lot of sense. however, a gui to edit a single line in a config file, to restart a service, to tail a log, to grep a directory, to sed some tsvs, etc etc etc would be overkill and waste time.

    if you forget commands, there's always that great gui, the internets. or - heavens forbid - man .

    to each his own, but it drives me ***** crazy to hear "power users" - especially jackasses who should be in human resources but somehow ended up "system administrators" - complaining about using a command line
  • inactive, on 08/15/2008, -0/+20Ubuntu I think is what will bring the "year of the linux desktop" that has been going for the last 10 years or so someday. And they only keep making it better.

    If they could just get it to game, Id be sold.
  • cday, on 08/15/2008, -3/+21"Though it feels like Ubuntu has been around for a long time, it's not even been four years since the distribution was launched."

    Less than four years? Wow! In a very short span of time, Ubuntu's come a long way, baby! It's nice to see a success story about a company that didn't have to use dirty tricks or ugly behavior to get there.
  • stutimandal, on 08/15/2008, -0/+18Wait till more Indian and South American schools adapt Linux due to price advantage. They have begun doing that. I am hoping for a number of around 20% Linux-users worldwide. Thank you, Vista!
  • aywwts4, on 08/15/2008, -0/+16Because once you "learn a ton" you can do more than you can ever dream of with scripts and chron jobs.

    Things you don't even think of can all be completely automated, what takes countless hours in microsoft server management can all be done with a single script and some databases. Programs which sell for hundreds of dollars can all be replaced with a few commands and know how. (Norton Ghost for instance) and then your server will email you when it is all done and tell you how it went. Its like adding a robot to your IT team.

    The command line is incredibly efficient. Anyone who thinks otherwise hasn't seen it in action with a pro.
  • h0ly, on 08/15/2008, -1/+16Please do not forget to thank the whole Debian community and upstream developers. They rock!
  • Smudded, on 08/15/2008, -1/+15I like how you think the article ends on page one.
  • dougle, on 08/15/2008, -1/+11That is so true my friend, there is only so many times you need to bring a base install up to speed before it should use that as the default, there is nothing wrong with following the trends as a foundation with the scope to go off on the tangent if you need/choose to.

    It is just evolution.
  • inactive, on 08/15/2008, -3/+122018 is the year of Linux?
    ***** man, And I thought that was next year and all years proceeding.
  • naughtyboy, on 08/15/2008, -1/+8I'm on ubuntu now and I use ubuntu at work, also has ubuntu on mediacenter pc, and car-pc. I'm pretty pleased with it.
  • mahler, on 08/16/2008, -0/+6I totally respect the work of Debian, but it took somebody like Shuttleworth to take the next step necessary to bring Linux to the desktop. His work to transform the great Debian platform into the Ubuntu community which is more accessable to the average user, was a big step into wider acceptance.
  • inactive, on 08/15/2008, -1/+7afrothunderman

    I hope this doesn't sound harsh and I don't mean it personally but it's this type of response IMO that hinders the adoption of Linux. I have tried Rhythmbox, Amarok and Banshee and none hold a candle to iTunes. Rhythmbox which is the closest doesn't allow reordered lists which is a pain, Amarok's everything but the kitchensink approach is an even worse gui cluster ***** than Windows Media player (and it runs poorly under Gnome) and Banshee was crashy and lacked working daap support when I last tried it, and none of them work with my itouch, I tried the command line config on the Ubuntu forums and then gave up, synch less. :(

    And sorry but the Gimp is NOT in the same league as Photoshop for even close to professional design, and Scribus lags even further behind Indesign than that, and there is no real substitute at all for Dreamweaver or Final Cut Pro/After Effects/Premiere for serious video work.

    Not all of this is Linux's fault with proprietary standards, volunteer coders, etc.

    But here is my bottom line I have a dual boot Core2Duo Sony Vaio notebook and as a hard core lefty I'd like to boot into Hardy Heron every time, I 90% of the time boot into XP to synch my itouch, because iTunes IS much better, and because I may need to do design work with my Adobe apps, that is just the sad reality I wish it were different but it isn't. :(
  • inactive, on 08/15/2008, -1/+7Note to wine developers if you want more mainstream acceptance of Linux work on getting iTunes, and the Adboe design apps working perfectly on Linux including clear save dialogs to the native file system. That is the ONLY thing keeping me from switching from Windows and OS X. Yes it's proprietary software that sucks in an idealistic sense that Stallman accurately points out, OTH I have to use my computer in the real world.
  • TheZorch, on 08/15/2008, -1/+7II agree "highlymodified", Ubuntu is great. I use Kubuntu myself. I find it pretty funny that people who rag on Linux often praise Mac OS X for being user friendly, yet they forget that Mac OS X is essentially BSD Unix under the hood ... and Linux emulates the style of Unix! The only difference between them is the kernel ... that's it! You see, its all of that Redmond, WA brainwashing.
  • rowjimmy, on 08/16/2008, -0/+6what aywwts4 said.

    i'm not going so far as to say every computer user should use emacs all the time, but I loathe people who consider themselves "power users" (or even worse, "microsoft certified system administrators" who have no idea what they are doing) but refuse to learn how to properly use a computer. as with almost everything in life, to do it properly you have to invest time and *gasp* "learn a ton"
  • Vich, on 08/16/2008, -0/+6He didn't say he loved ubuntu. It was an order. LOVE UBUNTU.
  • inactive, on 08/15/2008, -0/+5bro that was painful
  • FairDinkumMate, on 08/15/2008, -1/+6Your assumption is as bad as the haters that say "Linux doesn't work for gamers & until then it's nothing"

    When will you guys realise that gamers are a TINY percentage of PC users & basically irrelevant to Linux in building a desktop user base? If you were to produce an OS, would you target it at the less than 10% of desktops that are used by gamers or the more than 90% that aren't?

    Linux will have desktop market share when it's on the desktop at your local bank, government office & car dealership and maybe when your mum has it on her laptop as well!
  • inactive, on 08/15/2008, -4/+9Goodly?
  • pengo79, on 08/15/2008, -3/+8There's no substance to this article, and I'm not surprised no one from Canonical wants to talk to this journalist. The last sentence-and-paragraph is as vague and meaningless as the rest of the article: "The times have suited [Mark Shuttleworth] and it doesn't look like anything is going to change." Whatever. Bury time.
  • cypherz, on 08/15/2008, -1/+5I think you're trolling a little bit here, but I agree that Linux esp. the Ubuntu variants have really come a long way. I irecently nstalled eeebuntu on my old eeePC notebook and it just worked. No configuration at all other than entering the wifi password. That's particularly impressive to me considering how obtuse the hardware is on the eeePC notebooks.
    The eeebuntu distro is significantly better than what was shipped on the notebook and nearly at par grooming-wise with OS X.
  • defrex, on 08/16/2008, -0/+4damnit
  • FairDinkumMate, on 08/16/2008, -0/+4Raydeen, I am seriously curious & not giving you a hard time, please take my comments as such.

    Do you honestly believe that Linux needs gamers in the short-medium term? Traditionally gamers have been seen as a good market because they are generally tech savvy & early adapters.

    However, in the case of Linux, it has plenty of tech savvy, early adapter type users, so this really isn't an area that it needs a lot of help in. In fact, I'd guess that a lot of Linux(especially Ubuntu) installs on normal users PC's are due to this crowd - the 'family' or 'social group's tech guy. You know the one(you're probably it among your friends) - "Oh, my PC's stuffed, I'll invite raydeen over for a beer & get him to take a look at it while he's here!". You head over & because it's the 17th time this month that Johnny's PC has been stuffed with viruses & malware(it's the PORN sites Johnny!), you say "Look Johnny, I can install Ubuntu on here for you & you'll have far less trouble with viruses from the porn sites & it might take you a couple of weeks to get used to, but it'll be better for you in the long run". He says "OK" and there's worlds the next Ubuntu istall.
  • morepowerr, on 08/15/2008, -3/+7Windows is for play. Linux is for business. And i have to say Ubuntu 8.04 put Vista to shame. And Xp is only good for gaming. If programmers tried to write games in SDL or GL. Instead of going the point and click DX route. You would see the windows market dry up fast.

    I have run in to more then a few people how use the PC for nothing but internet. And linux do's that better then xp can any day.
  • TheZorch, on 08/15/2008, -0/+4So do I! I use Kubuntu and its now my main OS.
  • inactive, on 08/15/2008, -1/+5been using linux for my desktop for almost 4 years now
    used it on my server for almost 10

    never looked back.

    i play games online and have to shake my head at the pitiful fools still using windows as their computers crash, become exploited. get viruses.. etc.. so many issues. even configuration issues that i never seem to have any problems with on linux
    wine has come along way fyi, i play steam based games, and world of warcraft on it regularly without issue
    also photshop works perfectly (and i cant stand gimp)

    the only crash ive had on linux that i can recall in recent months was when i tried out a winXP gnome theme ;) it crashed! just like windows ;)

    all i had to do was restart X, didnt even have to reboot, seconds later i was back in action
  • thethorn, on 08/16/2008, -1/+5Linux Mint, FTW

    It has this ***** built in. Would have saved you an hour and a half.
  • mikelieman, on 08/16/2008, -0/+3Fiddling with it is why I like it.

    I guess I'd be tuning a carburettor or some ***** if I wasn't playing with a computer.
  • fokov, on 08/16/2008, -2/+5Those reasons are why I hated using Linux. My latest blunder has been with OpenSuse (some people that I know love it so I gave it a shot). During the installation it recognizes my main monitor and my secondary perfectly. However, after the installation it messes up my primary monitor (high performance CRT) to where I can only use my cheap LCD. To fix that I guess I have to go configure everything manually changing settings in places I don't even know exist.

    To get Linux to be completely adopted the developers need to get out of the old habit of command-line and config files ONLY. I don't care if they leave them as the main method of doing things, but they need to create a layer of abstraction to get those pesky details away from new to Linux and lazy users like me. I have a ton of information I have to know, knowing 10 commands with 10 switches and creating/editing a few files shouldn't be required in this day and age.

    I should be able to control everything on my computer with either just the mouse or just the keyboard. I know Linux was created by geeks and they are proud to know all the hidden features, but IMO that is horrible usability. However, all operating systems have those faults.
  • troy1of2, on 08/15/2008, -1/+4Uhm, go back and re-read the very first line of the article. Pay close attention to the Ten years from now part and the if part.

  • revslaughter, on 08/16/2008, -0/+3Linux would love it if major game companies developed for it - Ubuntu et al has the resources and everything one would need to game. What I mean to say is, an operating system isn't responsible for people developing stuff for it - though it ought to inspire people to. Or FUD into, if you're microsoft.
  • vincentweber, on 08/15/2008, -1/+4... by the growth of any Linux distribution at the expense of Windows, even if it isn't the one they use...

    Epic

    Signed:
    A satisfied Linux user.
  • shakin, on 08/16/2008, -0/+3Ubuntu hasn't revolutionized configuration. Even installing Arch Linux has minimal config file editing. It's the under the hood fiddling that brought us this: bulletproof X and better kernel drivers.

    While I like Ubuntu enough that I am using it to write this post I think that its real innovation is marketing. They were able to leverage Debian's great base system and add a few extras to make it more user-friendly and they were able to match or better the established distros, then they were able to market the hell out of it so just about everyone that uses Linux gave Ubuntu a try.
  • tflowholdings, on 08/16/2008, -2/+5Ubuntu > OSX
  • slugicide, on 08/16/2008, -0/+3Ubuntu is free of charge, but you can get a really good deal for support from Canonical. You don't really need it though because, contrary to what you say, the help on the forums is really incredibly fas (and often the answer is already posted)t. And if that's not fast enough the irc channel offers live, real-time help.
  • cypherz, on 08/15/2008, -1/+3To each his own I guess. I think Vista Aero is especially fugly, but there are (free) themes for Gnome and KDE that will skin the GUI to look like Vista Aero, OS X or whatever.
  • raydeen, on 08/16/2008, -0/+2The horrible truth is that games are indeed a big part of owning and using a computer. It's been like that for decades. The developers know this. The store owners know this. The hardware manufacturers know this. Quite a bit of time, money and energy goes into software production. If developers don't see a big enough target audience, they either won't develop for a given platform or will end up charging extra to make up for the production costs. An example: When Diablo 2 came out, I ran out and picked up my copy for $39.99. On the shelf across from the wall of PC games was the Mac version for $52.99. Now you and I both know that there was no difference between the PC and Mac versions. They both had the same freaking discs! But Blizzard and/or EB knew that the smaller Mac crowd was NEVER going to look closely enough at the box specs and would simply buy the more expensive but exact same box. I happily played D2 on my PC at home and my Mac at work.

    Now. If Ubuntu (or any other distro) can get it's foot in the door and start making enough noise, the developers, store owners, hardware manufacturers will begin to take notice. At this point, it's up to the community at large to introduce and spread the word, and it's happening. It took some balls on Dell's part to listen to it's customer base and offer systems with Ubuntu and to keep offering them. Other companies are following. Guys like me install it on people's systems when we repair Windows for them and show them how to use it in case Windows takes a dive. It's catching on in cities and countries around the world. Projects like Wine and VirtualBox are making it easier for people to go over the 50 yard liine and live in Linux more than in Windows.

    Sorry for the long ass ramble. Linux in general is maturing and gaining attention. It will take time but the time may be shorter than any of us imagines. Especially if the next Windows can't learn from the early Vista mistakes and Apple doesn't get their heads out of their asses and offer competitive prices on their product lines. $699-$799 for a MacBook is reasonable. Fairly good machines (I'm typing on one now) but I wouldn't pay the price Apple is asking. At least throw in a semi-decent discrete graphics card for $1099.
  • saturn5, on 08/16/2008, -2/+4Ubuntu wouldn't exist without Debian, and that distro has been around for a lot longer than four years.

    I love how people think Ubuntu was built from scratch. They just took Debian (and Gnome) and made it easier to install and use. Shuttleworth didn't need to use "dirty tricks or ugly behavior", Debian was already a popular Linux distro.
  • Kamujin, on 08/16/2008, -0/+2@tomarocco

    "I will always be slower than you efficient *****. You will always be better paid. Always."

    Fixed.
  • HonestAbe, on 08/16/2008, -1/+3I don't know why anyone hasn't mentioned rubbing sticks together yet. I've been a fan of rubbing sticks together since I learned how to do it several million years ago, and I don't see why anyone would do anything differently. I can't imagine how anyone could come up with a more flexible or powerful method of starting fires.
  • Kamujin, on 08/16/2008, -1/+3@HonestAbe You said it better then I could have.

    Thanks
  • Ademan, on 08/16/2008, -0/+2I laughed when you called DirectX the "point and click" direction...

    Anyways, that aside, it really is true that porting from Windows XP and vista to OSX and Linux is EASY (it's entirely possible for your code to build without any modifications, and it's likely that you'll only ever need a couple hundred lines of modifications at worst, probably more if you hard coded your path separator :-) ) if you use SDL and OpenGL instead of DirectX.
  • javaroast, on 08/16/2008, -1/+3Very poorly written article. I'm sure it had a point , maybe even a good one... but it was unreadable.
  • ethana2, on 08/16/2008, -0/+2People notice this now. Basically all the video editing people united to form Lumiera recently to give us a Blender-class nonlinear nondestructive video editing system.

    Finally.
  • ethana2, on 08/16/2008, -0/+2Depending on the situation, I'm ok with mac growth at the expense of windows too.
    Whenever i find another friend has gone mac i tell them 'oh, well, you paid too much, but hey, at least you're not on windows.'
    At least they know what good software is.
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