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137 Comments
- bieber, on 10/12/2007, -6/+65People seem to forget that there's a VERY large difference between patent and copyright. If there was an issue with copyrighted code, it would be no trouble at all to rewrite code to get rid of the problem. With patents, however, there's no way around it, because they cover _ideas_. Take the FAT filesystem, for instance. There are actually several patents on various parts of it, two of which Microsoft holds, IIRC. The only way that you could possibly make Linux not infringe on that patent would be to remove FAT support from the kernel. The only way we could "comply" with Microsoft's "intellectual property rights" in this case would be to just start tossing out patented features. And I don't know about you, but all I have to say is "***** that."
- zerocomm, on 10/12/2007, -11/+69Indeed, this whole microsoft campaign has been of fear and confusion. Now that their puppet SCO is irrelevant they are fighting the good fight. I doubt microsoft will directly challenge linux providers in court for PR and antitrust reasons, but they can make quite a dent from the sidelines.
- shrewduser, on 10/12/2007, -13/+48couldn't agree more, This has all been about instilling Fear Uncertainty and Doubt in Linux vendors/users....
to summerise: Ballmer, Put up or Shut up!.
he's been going on about this supposed patent issues for months and months, and in all that time not even the slightest clue as to what those patent issues might be! its damaging linux and linux stake holders... and it really should be illegal. - SirNoobius, on 10/12/2007, -12/+46wouldn't this be considered defamation if he doesn't indeed show where the violations are?
I would like to see MSFT sued over this. - cloakeddagger, on 10/12/2007, -7/+37are you kidding? microsoft are scared ***** of linux...
- DoodlesMcPooh, on 10/12/2007, -10/+397of7
You always post Pro Microsoft or Anti Linux comments. Pro Microsoft is fair enough you should like who you work for!
But stop posting Anti Linux comments in every thread it is getting boring. - forgetfulca, on 10/12/2007, -8/+35Don't be silly. He's not going to pay the slightest attention to any demands for specific lines of code anymore than SCO did. He doesn't have to. Whatever anyone else might be saying, each and every time he starts uttering 'patent infringement' some compliant reporter is going to copy it down and dutifully repeat it.
- hadees, on 10/12/2007, -4/+27Digg up bieber and digg down everyone else.
There is no code to show. Ballmer is talking about Linux infringing on patents and not actual code. The guy is a dick head though and still needs to prove his claim. - 16x9, on 10/12/2007, -6/+297of7, is there anything Microsoft can do that will cause you to think poorly of them? Honest to God, I've been reading your comments for well over a year now and I've NEVER read anything from you that doesn't make it clear that you feel Microsoft poops gold nuggets.
For the most part I like Microsoft too (and I have a lot of respect for Bill Gates) but what Balmer is doing to the Open Source community sucks. Additionally, because Microsoft has oodles of money and clout at their disposal while the Open Source folks have neither, I find Balmer's behavior a bit over the top. And yet here you are, 7of7, as usual, defending Microsoft and claiming that David is being mean to Goliath (oh, and they have an icky website). - damentz, on 10/12/2007, -10/+307of7, well our fud does have some truth to it, thats why no one is complaining but you.
- adml_shake, on 10/12/2007, -7/+25"7of7, is there anything Microsoft can do that will cause you to think poorly of them?"
Not while he's on the payroll. - Szandor, on 10/12/2007, -8/+247of7:
*Yawn*
Another pro-fascist comment by our local Ballmer slut.
Keep sucking that dick, sparky. - ts8lemonade, on 10/12/2007, -5/+20It's not really about being anti-Microsoft (for once) but more about Microsoft providing proof that Linux is infringing on their intellectual property. They've made the claim, now they need to show where Linux infringes so it can be modified so as not to conflict with their property rights. The Linux developers and coders don't want Microsoft's code, and I can respect that. They want it to be their own, and they want it to be free.
- Humptydank, on 10/12/2007, -7/+22
The fact that he isn't being held accountable for his statements is all the proof you need of his lack of credibility among the very people he's trying to convince.
That so far we've only seen "open letters" from advocates means that the business community knows he's blowing smoke, or has decided that the issues he could be referring to are such small potatoes to them that it's not worth the court costs. If any company of any consequence took him at all seriously on this matter, on issues that were of any financial consequence to them, they would bring suit to force Microsoft to put their cards on the table and establish a precedent for future indemnification.
These open letter writers should swallow their indignation and respond to this in the same way his customers and major users of Linux are -- the same way you do to any troll -- ignore him and he'll eventually go away. - ts8lemonade, on 10/12/2007, -7/+22They want Ballmer to show the LINUX code that is infringing on their property rights.
- shrewduser, on 10/12/2007, -11/+26your talking about the linux community making FUD? with sites like this one?? this site is self defence against one of the many FUD campaigns microsoft have going at the moment.... all this site is asking is that ballmer stop spreading FUD and tell everyone how linux infringes microsoft patents....
THATS IT. NO FUD, JUST A SIMPLE REQUEST THAT BALLMER PLAY FAIR. - shrewduser, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18its been said before, but:
for every pro linux article on digg, 7of7 dies a little inside.
kudos to the original author of that quote. - Gomek, on 10/12/2007, -4/+17Please just do us all a favor and get the fsck out of the Linux/Unix section, 7of7.
- DigeratiPrime, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15do some research next time:
Ballmer Calls Linux Top Threat To Windows
http://www.crn.com/Sections/BreakingNews/dailyarchives.asp?ArticleID=22871
Open Source a Threat, Microsoft Admits
http://www.windowsitpro.com/Articles/Index.cfm?ArticleID=37920 - tvgm2, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13He also diggs any anti-Apple/Steve Jobs/Ubuntu/Google story and any pro-Microsoft/Windows/Vista story. Kind of a sickening zealotry.
He actually dugg the same story twice about "Why I don't believe Steve Jobs": http://www.digg.com/users/7of7/news/dugg/page2
Maybe he just doesn't like anything the majority of the diggers do? Or maybe he is paid by Microsoft? Either way he's blocked now. - geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12We're not anti-Microsoft, we're anti-*****. Ballmer is being an ***** and we are against that. When Linus Torvalds threatens to sue Microsoft for patent violations, trying to limit growth of Windows, then we will be against Linus as well.
- 1911wolf, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16This is simple as there is no code involved. See, in Ballmer's mind any OS is IP of Microsoft.
- gcopenhaver, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15"as if steve ballmer gives a rats ass what a few hundred linux users think."
few hundred linux users? try millions of linux users...I'm sure that if there's any linux users that AGREE with Ballmer, it's only a few hundred. Ballmer's a moron for thinking that he can keep up this FUD forever. There will be a time when he has to prove that he's right, or he'll be found out. It appears that we may come to that point pretty soon, now. - FuzzyCat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10@jdmulloy
I think urusai was trying to imply that Microsoft took GPL code and incorporated it into their Windows products, in violation of the GPL . Thus they would be too frightened to reveal code that would show that they stole GPL'd code..
..at least that's what my translation of what urusai comes out as :) - russellnation, on 10/12/2007, -14/+24man, Ballmer is a meathead
- gcopenhaver, on 10/12/2007, -4/+14here's some Fedora Core 6 linux statistics showing that this single distribution reached over 1 million users 74 days after it's release. http://fedoraproject.org/wiki/Statistics
Ubuntu linux is more popular yet. - t0ny, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11On behalf of microsoft I'm going to show you guys a example of code that violates Microsofts I.P.
This is in many of Linux's files.
"while (1) {"
and our patent clearly states a method of creating a Infinite loop - looksliketrent, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Too bad the general public still won't give a damn.
- shrewduser, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7"I wouldn't push this issue. Given MS's patent portfolio, Linux code probably is in violation."
the thing is that novell, IBM, redhat, HP, and all the linux/pro linux companies out there would unleash patent hell on Microsoft if they ever did decide to go down that road.... (not to mention all the individual patent holders and patent holding organisations holding patents on linux's behalf) - NetiNeti, on 10/12/2007, -9/+15You wish to de-FUD Mr Ballmer? Good luck. M$ relies on FUD to gain competitive advantage.
- Szandor, on 10/12/2007, -3/+9"Ha, linux fanboy nega-digg swarm!!"
Looks like we've got another Ballmer cumbucket around here. - schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -14/+19,----[ Quote ]
| ...Darl McBride, CEO of SCO, in 2003:
|
| "The intellectual property roots of Linux are obviously flawed at a
| systemic level under the current model. To date, we claim that more
| than one million lines of UNIX System V protected code have been
| contributed to Linux through this model. The flaws inherent in the
| Linux process must be openly addressed and fixed."
`----
http://community.zdnet.co.uk/blog/0,1000000567,10004553o-2000331777b,00.htm
No specifics. Steve Ballmer is the next McBride. And he'll take the blame...
,----[ Quote ]
| "There you have it. At least a third of SCO's entire market
| capitalization, and their entire current cash reserves, is payoffs
| funnelled from Microsoft. Their 10Qs reveal that every other line of
| cash inflow is statistical noise by comparison. The brave new
| SCO source business model is now clear: sue your customers, shill
| for Microsoft, kite your stock, and pray you stay out of jail."
`----
http://www.catb.org/~esr/halloween/halloween10.html - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Mac OS X is based off of a BSD variant known as Darwin (Apple's Open-Source OS). Mac OS X is built on top of Darwin adding things like the Mac GUI, Core Image, etc. We really can't tell if Darwin is violating MS' patent because the won't tell us what exactly the violations are, which means the devels of Darwin can't search through their code and remove stuff.
This image shows UNIX based OS', including Mac OS X so you can see exactly where it comes from.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/3/32/Unix.png
BTW: I hope I helped better than those ***** above. :) - mccord, on 10/12/2007, -3/+8"Where are these millions of users?"
you are one of them, the dns-server that served you the ip of digg is proably a *nix system
googled today? that query was processed by a linux system...
microsofts fud is not (yet) targeted at the average desktop user, but at the server market that is ruled by unix-flavored operating systems. - andyrobo60, on 10/12/2007, -11/+16They are not going to "Show you the code" because IF it exists, then they just have to keep going the way they are and:
1. If its fixed then they will lose the money from all they business that they are extorting.
2. They cant use it as FUD.
3. They will no longer be able to bring it up ever 2-5 months to piss people off.
If the "code" doesn't exist then they CANT show you the code as it well doesn't exist, if they admit that it doesn't exist then they loss points 1, 2 and 3 above. AND they look like total ass holes. - Kuipo, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Hell.. I believe Microsoft own the patent for right clicking a mouse, despite not being the first people to make a mouse. Now that patent might sound stupid.. but things like that are patented. They are insane patents I agree, and they may never hold in a court of law, but Microsoft still owns them.
I'm not saying I believe that Microsoft can sue opensource and win, as ballmer has claimed, but they most likely have the patents to do so. - nerd05, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10no, Microsoft relies on clever business tactics to gain their advantage. And they sure as hell don't get their competitive advantage from making better software (maybe not Office, but the rest is crap)
- jdmulloy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7How can you be so dense? I agree the Microsoft won't show it's own code but I fail to see how the GPL affects their code as it's not licensed under the GPL.
- blizzok, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Blocked? How silly. I wouldn't do that, I need my humor.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6main()
OMG STOLEN! - geekee, on 10/12/2007, -7/+11I wouldn't push this issue. Given MS's patent portfolio, Linux code probably is in violation.
- lowerlogic, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7kevin45:
"linux which is still an OS only nerds can operate properly." What makes you think that?
I never used Vista so I cannot say anything about it, but I have used XP as my only OS for years and believe I have an adequate knowledge of it to make an informed response.
I noticed the following things on my most recent Ubuntu installation (which occured after Windows ***** up my main hard drive, sorry, it is only the hard truth):
1) Installing Ubuntu was just as easy as installing XP.
2) Installing the Ubuntu updates were just as easy as updating XP.
3) Installing the driver for my Nvidia video card was easier in ubuntu than in XP, Because: In Ubuntu all I need to do what search for "nvidia" in the package manager program and click "install". In XP I needed to go to the website and navigate several pages before I got to the right page that had the drivers. Either way it was very easy to install the video card driver.
4) Sound card was detected and working instantly with no driver searching on Ubuntu. I needed to find the CD that came with my sound card to use it on XP.
5) In Ubuntu I didn't need to install a printer driver to use my printer, while in XP I needed to install it manually. The upcoming UT2007 should also work in Linux.
6) Games like UT2004 and Starcraft (using wine) have been really easy to install in Linux. While the latest version of Wine runs Starcraft slow, I'm sure it will be fixed in a later version or if I wanted to go back to the older version of Wine I easily could.
7) Doing common things like chat, browsing the web, writing papers, watching movies, etc is extremely easy to do.
8) Installing the latest version of flash is easy, making youtube videos play flawlessly
9) Getting even Microsoft Windows Media Video 9 to play is possible and made easier by scripts.
10) While my latest install was a desktop and didnt need wireless card drivers, I have gotten my Broadcom card in my laptop computer to work without doing any programming or compiling of any sort, just takes a bit of time to find the right place to get it.
And I have not programmed a single app for Linux and have not been using it for more than a year. You don't need to be a nerd to use Linux. Period.
Sure the average user won't be able to compile from source, but often he doesnt need to with big distros like ubuntu for many big programs. And often the compile is as easy as "./configure; make; make install" and there are graphical programs which will do that for you and check to make sure you have all the software that program depends on.
"few hundred linux users"
Um. Hello? Have you been living under a rock the past 10 years? While it is hard to gauge the exact number of Linux users due to Linux's free and de-centralized nature, meet the Dell Idea Storm: http://www.dellideastorm.com/ . The preinstall Linux idea has 80539 promotions and counting, which means there are at LEAST 8053 users right there. The Fedora numbers are probably accurate because how many people who take the time to update their systems if they were just going to try it? And look at the average unique IPs every week: 102,952. That number is 100% fake, god help you.
"Where are these millions of users?"
They exist in many countries, states, and towns. What do you expect them to do? All show up in your neighborhood one day and throw a suprise party? If that happened would it even convince you?
By the way, since you are generalizing about a diverse group of thousands of different linux distros (admittedly most not very popular, you can find just about all of them at distrowatch.org), have you even used any popular linux distro? Linux is the only OS on my laptop and is the main OS on my desktop (and haven't needed to boot into XP since), and it is extremely easy to use. If you just installed it for a week and were willing to learn new things (something I don't expect you do often), I'm sure you would see it is easy to use even though you don't know ***** about computers.
Since I don't think you will even read this entire response because it does not reinforce you false preconceptions of what you currently believe (and in your case may always believe), I will now block you for commenting on a topic you are so ignorant about.
I didn't post this comment to get a response from you, I made this comment so that you may one day open your mind. - Salgat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Either Balmer is lying or hes afraid that he'll lose the only leverage he has on Linux, since the patent infringing software will be fixed quickly after he tells us what the heck we're infringing on.
- udahlen, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I was not aware that Microsoft had much of intellectual property. Their entire business model is based on copying from others and intimidating the competition, not on innovation.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6The Site has been updated for professionality's sake. Thanks all to making this get noticed. Blog buttons are coming soon.
Mark Shuttleworth, Matthew.Szulik of redhat, Kevin Carmony of Linspire, and the Free Software Foundation have been contacted about this as well as it currently stands. Hopefully they will respond soon. - Skeithy, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7If Ballmer released how linux violated patents it would be fixed in a couple weeks, then the FUD means less than it does now.
Unrelated, but I have seen a surge of Linux desktop converts since Vista came out. Today I helped my friend get Ubuntu setup with beryl and other neat applications, now hes trying to get WINE to run the couple games he plays so he can dump Windows because he was so impressed by it. In forums I frequent, having nothing to do with computing, have had dozens of topics made in the past weeks about how much they like Linux compared to Windows. - ronaldst, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Crying is an effective tool for 5 years olds.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -5/+9in balmer's mind "computers r us."
- ToscaDisco, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Was just reading the FAQ on the RedHat's site (link from showusthecode.com) and it made me laugh.
In the old days people would frequently ask questions. The recipients of the questions would eventually get sick of getting the questions (and having to reply), or realize that the documentation totally failed to answer some questions people were asking and would make an FAQ. The FAQ was based (unsurprisingly) on a list of questions that people asked (frequently)!
These days FAQ actually means "List of Questions We (Or Our Publicity And Marketing Department) Would Really Like You To Ask, As We Have Beautifully Polished Answers To Them That Cast Us In A Really Good Light"
The acronym should read B.U.L.L.S.H.I.T
Don't get me wrong - I love Redhat - it's not just them. Everyone is making up FAQ that aren't actually being asked. -
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