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167 Comments
- baalzebub, on 10/11/2007, -5/+115yes!
ogg/vorbis/theora is good :) - Gman1223, on 11/11/2007, -8/+74Why not?? MP3 isn't a very good format in the first place, and saying its good enough for most users is like saying that windows is good enough for most users. Lets all start using something better, MP3 is an old outdated under featured audio format, why should we continue to use it?
Well, other then the lack of support for Media Players. - TheWorm, on 10/11/2007, -15/+48Its name is honestly what's killing it.
- Gman1223, on 10/11/2007, -3/+31I do, my music collection is all .ogg.
- corevette, on 10/11/2007, -3/+30you can't forget FLAC
- ZakMcRofl, on 10/11/2007, -0/+19What some people seem to forget is that an open standard doesn't have to be popular to be usefull.
Many open source programs already use OGG Vorbis for storing, deploying and playing audio. It may not be the next MP3 but it has its purpose:
Want to write a game engine, use OGG Vorbis for audio storage. Want to transfer/store user recorded audio for later playback in your application, use a OGG library.
Its great to have choice and I for one am happy that OGG Vorbis exists, even if I don't use it for "normal" music storing. - Dankoozy, on 10/11/2007, -6/+23I prefer FLAC myself. Muspak/Wavpack are also extremely good codecs, one of them even allows for lossy, and then has a 'correction file' to make it lossless. OGG is a good codec, but there is better free codecs out there. and all the ones i just mentioned work on my iPod mini with rockbox so lack of player support isn't really a problem for me
- seether166, on 11/11/2007, -11/+27@Gman1223
"windows is good enough for most users"
That analogy pretty much contradicts your point. Windows IS good enough for most users. I'll probably get dugg down for saying that, but it's an irrefutable fact. If it wasn't good enough for more users, it wouldn't be dominant. Of course, I'm not saying it's better than OSX or *nix because I don't believe it is. - mushroom, on 10/11/2007, -19/+35Dose anyone actually use .ogg? i don't know of any mp3 players that supports it
- nipuL, on 10/11/2007, -0/+15iRivers can play .ogg
- CompIsMyRx, on 10/11/2007, -0/+14All iAudio players play both Ogg Vorbis and FLAC.
- schestowitz, on 10/11/2007, -1/+15> Well, other then the lack of support for Media Players.
It's coming along. Chicken and egg.
http://www.osnews.com/story.php/17860/Review-The-OGG-Compatible-iRiver-E10
Ogg Vorbis Gaining Industry Support
,----[ Quote ]
| While Ogg Vorbis format has not gained much adoption in music
| sales and portable players, it is not an unsupported format in
| the industry. Toy manufacturers (e.g. speaking dolls), voice
| warning systems, and reactive audio devices exploit Ogg Vorbis
| for its good quality at small bit-rates.
`----
http://hardware.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=07/02/06/1931244&from=rss - cynicist, on 10/11/2007, -0/+13OGG is not a codec, its a container format. Vorbis is the codec, and it is the best lossy free codec out there.
- Gman1223, on 10/11/2007, -3/+15Whats the point? Well, the fact its a much better format, its like asking whats the point to advancing our technology, if everyone thought like that then we'd still be driving around in model t's and using computers the size of a small building.
- mastercheif, on 10/11/2007, -1/+12About 2 seconds. Get a better computer and stop complaining.
- kevinfell, on 10/11/2007, -7/+18"i don't know of any mp3 players that supports it"
mp3 players will support mp3. - gemadouble, on 10/11/2007, -0/+10Some iRiver players support ogg.
- julianrod, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9"FLAC vs lossless"??? WTF? FLAC IS lossless.
FREE LOSSLESS AUDIO CODEC. No difference. Really. Bit by bit. - ordminute, on 10/11/2007, -1/+9There is something to this statement, hardly idiotic at all. Think of it from the perspective of the suffix. An MP3 ends in *.mp3, it is the codec and the container and is responsible only for audio content. When you download an MP3 you know what you're getting. A *.ogg can be either a video (Theora) or an audio (Vorbis) file: when you download an ogg you don't know what the hell you're getting! Sure you could argue that AVI's are the same, but really how many people release music with an AVI suffix (ie no video track)?
Can you think if another file format which is similar?
Personally I think file suffixes are arcane anyway and should be done away with. the .zip.exe.virus.trojan problem aside, I think the file should be the container and any codecs should be detected from metadata, not from the bloody filename. It's silly.
Anyway, I rant. - sqrt7744, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6I'm really happy with my Samsung YP-U1. Small with great sound, and it plays all my ogg stuff. I think all Samsung players play ogg.
- MikeCerm, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6FLAC is lossless, and can be used to encode any PCM audio. Even DVD-Audio could be stored in FLAC. Instead, they use a proprietary lossless format, called MLP.
In any case, DVD-Audio and SA-CD will never, ever catch on. People don't want better quality. People want to carry their entire music library around on smaller and smaller iPods. Most people can't tell the difference between 128kbps MP3 and CD. Many people who can tell the difference don't even care that much, they prefer the convenience of having their library portable and accessible.
HD-video formats will be adopted eventually, because on a large screen, the difference between DVD and HD is obvious to everyone. CD-quality audio is close enough to the limit of human perception that there is no demand for anything better. If people do adopt next-gen audio, it will be for the multichannel surround capability, not for enhanced fidelity. - Gman1223, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6@Yazilliclick
Other then the fact it sounds better (mostly at lower bit rates) and is on average smaller then mp3... no, i can't think of any. - SimonGray, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6All of my music (about 25 GB) is Ogg as well.
- chikazuku, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6I use it on my Meizu MiniPlayer.
- rastap, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5What he wrote was:
"DRM (“Digital Restrictions Management” as Stallman likes to call it)"
which is a fact.
Do you do any research before posting a reply? - feedmecereal, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4I also use the Meizu MiniPlayer and I am very happy with it. It even supports FLAC. Just don't try upgrading the firmware as that can be a pain in the ass.
- shanesemler, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Many games, including proprietary games, use ogg already. I know for a fact the Uru: Ages Beyond Myst used it and that was released in 2003. Also, by default, JetAudio encodes audio in ogg format. There isn't even an option for mp3. Developers already know about ogg and are using it.
- gnatinator, on 10/11/2007, -5/+9"I'm a big fan of Richard Stallman and his work – even though, the first time I interviewed him, he proceeded to criticise my questions before answering them, not a journalistic experience I'd had before. Without his vision and sheer bloody-mindedness in the face of indifference and outright hostility, we would not have the vast array of free software we enjoy today."
Awesome quote. Very true :) - SteveMax, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6Given how long these formats have been out there already, how much better they are, and how little adoption they've had, I'd say that CDs will possibly be "the" optical format for music for a long, long time...
- k0001, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4You have another one here, almost 30GB in ogg
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4Or you could just buy decent ones...
- nickwebb, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4For lossless, I'm with you on FLAC. But let's face it, most people care more about how many songs they cran cram onto their nano than they do about audio quality higher than 192 - this is about lossy formats. Vorbis is, by far, the best sounding codec (for the file size) that I have ever heard.
- linuxdaemon, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4I have a Neuros II that plays them. A friend at work also has the Rio Karma which does ogg as well as flac. Both of these players also support gapless play. Though I believe both of these players are out of production now :/
- KnightMareInc, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5or you could just install the codec
- urbanight23, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6Doesnt .ogg cut the battery life in portable players, because the codec used more of the cpu?
I was debating ripping everything to .ogg for my rockboxed iriver, but I went with .mp3 because I didnt want to reduce my battery life. - BozoTClown, on 11/11/2007, -0/+3Hey butthead, I said "MP3/WMA work fine" not "MP3/WMA are superior". Millions of people use both on a daily basis. I could give a flying ***** on a rolling donut if ogg is better. MP3/WMA works for me and a lot of other people. The question was posed: Should we fight for ogg vorbis? I said go ahead, but I won't be joining you.
There, I fixed THAT for you. - r3zonance, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5Okay that's one, who is the other user? :P
- schmik07, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5@ mastercheif
One point to you my friend. - willemmulder, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6I use it as well... Winamp has native support, and I know a LOT of people who use Winamp...
- mrkmrk, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3RIP, Rio ;_;.
- dunkyp, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4I really like ogg I do find music sounds better at similar bit rates sounds better but it may just be my clearer conscience :P. I wish my ipod would support it (I'm a Linux user but I just like the apple hardware in this case) but I doubt apple will play ball.
- CeeJayDK, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3You are wrong on all counts :
1) Ogg Vorbis' sound quality is superior to MP3 : http://www.rjamorim.com/test/multiformat128/results.html (google for more listening tests if you still don't believe me)
2) There are plenty of user friendly encoders for Ogg Vorbis - Try for example OggdropXPd : http://www.rarewares.org/ogg-oggdropxpd.php
3) Many audioplayers support Vorbis : http://wiki.xiph.org/index.php/PortablePlayers (thx o4g46)
HydrogenAudio has a very extensive wiki on Ogg Vorbis (and all the other aduio codecs as well) , read it if you want to know more.
http://wiki.hydrogenaudio.org/index.php?title=Ogg_Vorbis - orlyfactor, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Nope.
- sqrt7744, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3...or use linux. Any modern distro uses ogg as the default audio format.
- GnuTzu, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3My worst paranoid nightmare on this is the likelihood that the big corporations will push for laws that mandate proprietary DRM.
I, for one, reserve the right to create and publish in any medium that I choose (regardless of how insignificant my work may be).
Even if , Ogg remains a minor standard, I would hate to see hardware that prevents Open Source software from playing Ogg content.
If anything, an important reason to fight for Ogg is that we cannot allow Open Standards that allow for Open Source software to be murdered by large corporations. - salmonmoose, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Essentially every quality personal media player supports .ogg these days, and have done for a few years now - as does quality media player software.
The "no support" argument is only applicable to the iPod, and Zune. - Tredici, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4Actually, yes, it does. Blame the media and the ignorance of the general public for referring to media players incorrectly.
- prammy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Most Samsung audio players made in the last 2 or 3 years play ogg as well.
- shanesemler, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4All of Cowon's players play ogg and FLAC. I suggest you check out http://anythingbutipod.com because there's a whole world of excellent players beyond the iPod.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5Personally, I think mp3's time has come and gone. Storage space is plentiful and relatively cheap these days, so I think we should start supporting better formats like ogg or FLAC. I can't wait for the day when more portable music players support FLAC.
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