What is Digg?61 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Lots more info here on using Linux in schools with lots of case studies with real world large savings too.
http://www.k12ltsp.org/ - ctheory, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I think everyone should stick to the main subject.
The school system saved money. In this country, we've got a huge problem with diverting funds for other things, whether right/wrong, moral/immoral, whatever.
In the state of Florida, Jeb Bush, and previous elected officials, have diverted so much in educational funding, I was using books that were nearly 10 years old, the school was in shambles, and the only thing that seemed to be getting funding was our piece of ***** football team.
The fact that the county/school/whatever has saved almost 100k a year can do tons, especially in the case of saving teachers. We used to live in a time where teachers did so because they made a change in peoples lives, and were able to make due with the pay and satisfaction. Now, in FL, the average teacher pay is just a tick over $7 an hour. People can't live like that, and a simple raise can keep people around and happy.
Just a few ideas to throw out there. - coolcoolglasses, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1The kids could handle it but the teachers would have a hard time
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http://plueballs.libsyn.com - aresef, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I'd love to start the OS revolution in my school (I spend a period a day as an aide for our computer guru of sorts), but there's so much bureaucracy at the county level that we can have a Linux server, Firefox 1.5 as the default browser on most new images, and I saved us a bunch of money in Photoshop licenses by putting GIMPshop on Art computers, but unfortunaltely, I think that's about as far as we'll be able to go.
- Broncho24, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I think this is a smart move. All my Friends use OpenOffice and there are 3 linux boxes here, only one thats mine. The otehr 2 my familey uses and they fly trhough linux as if its windows. My dad(2 finger typer) uses windows at work and he gets frustrated with all the problems that occure. With Suse 9.3 he loves the computer experience now.
But I do agree teachers are stupid :-p - bgeek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This is great news. Hope it spreads.
- glitchbit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0All I got to say to that school is duh.
computer_kid,
if they're too stupid to use windows then why does it matter? And if they are sufficient at windows then I see no reason why they should not be around the same level when using email clients, word processing, powerpoint like programs and other compariable programs on linux. Linux with KDE setup similar to Knoppix is not that hard to grasp like so many fear, harder to install programs but this is a school and you have less virus and spyware issues, and with windows spyware being as rampant as it is I wouldn't be surprised if many schools want to leave MS on that alone. - dotuplink, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0good choice!
- glitchbit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0foohookups, I thought about that too, but OpenOffice is not vastly different, different yes but it is basicly the same concept and those kids mostly all have a windows based computer anyways. And with some businesses slowly going to linux they may end up using linux anyways, sometime in the not so far away future.
- wilf_brim, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This is interesting, but I always remember that "open source is only free is you consider your time worthless". It would have been useful to estimate the amount of man-hours it took to make the transisition, in training on new software, and in ongoing maintenance.
The comeback is always "we can't go open source, it is too hard on the IT department". Some data to confirm or refute that would be useful. - glitchbit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0(linux)ongoing maintenance
o0 vs no high maintenance to keep windows running? Sorry but chances are, one these script kiddies at the school won't know linux terminals near as well as windows, two they can read their emails all they want and the school won't be affected by the slew of virus's and spyware. In all reality I think they would find it harder to screw up linux than windows, and the teachers, well as long as they know how to open their email programs and use their word processor and have a comparable browser it should not be that bad.
Second it isn't that hard to create a tutorial cd for the things the teachers want to know and just burn them all a copy to watch and listen to during the transition. And just have all their questions forwarded to the IT department via email and they can respond over that and when they get a large number of questions about the same thing they can just create a video tutorial and send it by email as mandatory to watch. - foohookups311, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0this is a good idea but problem is that most of the computers the kids will interact with outside of school will be windows based comps. One day when Linux is used over windows this will become an even better idea.
- TheD, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I may have had too many beers already this fine evening, but I have a question. If open source starts to gain a wider acceptance, and becomes a "significant" force in the world of software apps, what are these kids going to grow up to be? Software programers that dont get paid? Highly skilled coders who have to host a blog and advertising supported podcast to pay the rent. Can someone name me another industry that manages to survive when its main creation force are hobiests?
- drbroccoli, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Yes. This is the way school should be.
- tarun, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Fairly good article, but keep in mind this is a very small school district.
I used to work for a school district software company. Our biggest client had 18,000 students. Open source is good and everything, but a solution that works for 270 kids won't necessarily work great for thousands. - Computer_Kid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0yeah, but most teachers/students need to be helped every step of the way when it come to computers!
- Ringo47, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0wilf_brim:
"This is interesting, but I always remember that 'open source is only free is you consider your time worthless'."
Oh? And there's no extra costs at all with closed source software? Amazing!
That argument only works on people too stupid to realize that those costs will be there for both closed and open source software. - saxmanlarry, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Freaking awesome. Now that's smart use of tax dollars. So much for cutting programs and depriving students of the things they need. When I was in high school, it came to a point when they wouldn't allow us to have white lined paper in English class to even to tests or papers on (we had to provide our own) and the school sold many of its textbooks to a third party to lease them back for the quick cash. I don't even want to think about how much the district spent on simply software licenses each year. Thank God for open source.
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http://www.highlandmusic.org - glitchbit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0 chordonblue,
can't afford office but you can afford Macs! umm...yea ok....just reminded of that 1984 ad...."Our mouse only has one button so you don't get confused" =) - SirGrant, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I agree, if all schools started using open source it could save our country SO much money. I know my school spent tons of money on software licenses so I mean that woulda been great if we coulda saved that much.
- Chordonblue, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I am proud to say that our school: The Linden Hall School for Girls in Lititz, PA was the first to openly use and endorse OpenOffice.org. We've been using it since the first beta versions (and boy were they rough!)
But in the end, it's been worth it. OOo 2.0 is awesome when you consider that it's compatability with MS Office can be better that various versions of Office itself! The reality is that we simply cannot afford these huge licensing costs. We're not a corporation or a big school (only 135 students), so we fall through the cracks when it comes to discount pricing. Then there were the enormous difficulties dealing with students using all forms of incompatible word processors or office suites (many of them international).
The teachers did resist this change at first, but when they saw that none of our students were having difficulties with filetypes or printing anymore, it made everything alright. We still use Windows boxen but will probably move to Macs next year (we have in the dorms and the girls love them!) - riskable, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0carguy84, you seem to be hyping up Microsoft's strengths without pointing out any weaknesses. Your list above goes over some products: Exchange, Sharepoint, Project, MS Office, IIS/.NET, XP, IE, and Active Directory.
The idea here is that if your organization is using all of these products, they are guaranteed to work well together since they all come from the same company. There's many issues with all of them, but they all share one thing in common: What if you want to change the way these products work? Answer: You're screwed.
If you keep to Microsoft's recommended operating procedures and never stray from the norm--building your network, workstations, and server from scratch--you can have a pretty nice setup... For an enormous cost. However, there will come a day when you need to implement something that Microsoft never gave you a wizard for and you'll be up a creek without a paddle. You'll either have to invest a large amount of money in 3rd party solutions, or you'll start looking at open source software to fill the gaps (such as using a Linux-based intrusion prevention system/firewall/antivirus solution to protect IE, Exchange, and IIS since you can only patch systems SO FAST).
The truth is that Microsoft does a couple things well, but they're not exclusive or un-copyable. In fact, many Microsoft solutions are merely copies of much better products (Sharepoint, hah! In 100% of cases, a LAMP solution is better). There's really no good reason why companies use MS Office other than that's what they've been using in the past and they fear either A) backwards compatibility/sharing with other companies, or B) they have some sort of cult-like belief that OSS is going to cause them litigation/liability problems. No one ever calls Microsoft for support of Office.
More examples:
Why use IIS when Apache is better (there's really no arguing this) and it is free? I mean, you can even get Apache working with Active Directory. There's no excuse. IIS is a huge ass waste of money and has more security issues than anyone wants to deal with (the fact that it runs on Windows 2003 server being it's biggest security issue =).
Sharepoint? I work for a company that implements Sharepoint crap every day... What a waste. For a 10th of the price any given company can implement a better, more stable/secure solution in FOSS (LAMP).
.NET: Tell me what the advantage is to .NET on a server. I certainly can't think of one.
Active Directory: The only point to having AD is so you can administer your Windows clients/users like unix (or Netware) did a 15 years ago. It is kind of a pain to setup ($$$ up front VS $$$ in time), but you can turn any old OpenLDAP server into a perfect emulation of AD and it will include a hell of a lot more functionality (and won't screw you over when you want to change it around in the future--AD is very static and easily broken).
-Riskable
http://riskable.com
"I have a license to kill -9" - carguy84, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0How about this....how about all the linux distros get together and make a max of 2(TWO) desktop distros together. 1 aimed at the casual computer user, and one aimed at the super user. Call them, I dunno, Home and Pro versions. Maybe then, organizations would be more apt to installing them site wide, instead of trying to figure thru the myriad of choices there are out there.
As for MSFT products, yes they cost money, shocker. But with good reason...
Exchange? Rock solid if you don't try and F with it.
Sharepoint? Bad ass document repository/intranet.
Project? Great app, which when it gets tied into MSFT's new to be released billing, is going to be a huge time saver and forecaster.
Microsoft Office? Tough to judge since OO is the only "competition". If your time isn't in great demand, OO will suit you fine.
IIS/.NET Framework? up until recently, IIS had cases with major security holes.
Windows XP? Still running it directly connected to your cable modem? ok you get what you deserve :)
IE? uhh not sure what all the hub-bub about viruses and spyware is. Apparently you have to be a complete moron/porn junky for those options. But IE's rendering of HTML/CSS "standards" pretty much blow. If webmasters would just open a website in Firefox to make sure it worked correctly, IE would be doomed.
What else does Microsoft have....I feel like I'm leaving out something really really big.
oh right.
Active Directory? makes everything listed above available with a single sign-on :)
And linsys, I don't believe a word coming from your typewriter. - Cerberus047, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0two things first i think that schools will also save money if we use less money for SPORTS c'mon which is more impornant... and second does anyone know of an open source printer because im thinking that we make one or better yet a printer that DOSENT SUCK!!!! anyone with me we can make millions think about it a printer that dosent suck...
- carguy84, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0uhhhh, what?
I basically stopped reading your post with any credibility when you seem to think it's OK running Apache and whatever linux based email server you choose to select....without a firewall in front of it.
wow, can you come work for my company? lol. - x2dx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I think every dam school should do this.
Our school run on novell and about 3 times or more a month (im not there for half the day) they usally announce or you will see for your self that the network isent working blah blah blah - AnteChronos, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"issues from worms and internet attacks decresed by over 600%!"
I hope you're just exaggerating (which you really shouldn't do if you want to be taken seriously), because I wouldn't want someone with such poor math skills auditing ANYONE.
Free hint: You can't reduce a number by more than 100% without going negative. So . . . did the system end up sending OUT 5x the number of worms it was originally receiving, or what? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Administration is the only difficult part of using Linux. My little sister has no problem using her carefuly administered Ubuntu PC. Since most schools do not give their students administration access, and seeing as how a fair share of useful applications exist on linux, it almost seems foolish not to invest in a cluster of Linux machines.
Administration over a network with a breeze. I imagine it would only take 1 knowledgable admin (80k / year) to administer a cluster of 200 computers, and perhaps a few lackeys. - lenwood, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Apart from the cost savings, think of what a boon this is for open source. All these kids are going to be familiar with Linux (or BSD, or whatever they're running), so what are they going to get when they grow up and buy their own computers? This is a larger win for open source than just money, this opens the door for more open source opportunities.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0i wished my school did that :(
- Chordonblue, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Glitchbit...
Macs on lease are VERY reasonable indeed when compared to outright buying PC's. The deal schools get from Apple is amazing! Then there's the savings on personnel (less spyware/virus worries), etc. This is why many schools still use them. - sparkmonkeyz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I agree with the guy above me. An d what i wasnt to know is how the teachers and kids are suposed to find a way to use linux, they are ussually really stupid (eg: P.E. teachers). i guess that they are stupid becuase if u are using it for education pourposes, they only have to buy one coppy of windows xp and they can use it on every comp in the school. (hey guess what, i am in school right now in one of my classes, i hope i dont get caught, wish me good luck)
- gregcotten, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0If any of you are proffesionals in resource management, you would understand that using Linux and other open-source software would be frivolous at best due to the poor documentation and interfacing (especially with all those builds of Linux) incorporated in this free software. It's a corporate nightmare.
- ctheory, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"The fact that the county/school/whatever has saved almost 100k a year can do tons, especially in the case of saving teachers. We used to live in a time where teachers did so because they made a change in peoples lives, and were able to make due with the pay and satisfaction. Now, in FL, the average teacher pay is just a tick over $7 an hour. People can't live like that, and a simple raise can keep people around and happy."
Where are the numbers for that? I am not saying teachers make a killing, but that comes out to something like 14,000 to 15,000 a year."
That actually comes from a family member directly that was a teacher, and has since moved back into school to finish a degree in physical therapy.
End pay: 8.35/hr, after being there for 5 years. It really is sad. I wish this country put more emphasis on education. - krschuerman, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I've worked with several schools and would have loved to build an opensource school. Unfortunately it was never in the cards for me.
WAY TO GO!! More schools should follow this path. - mrkoje, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"If any of you are professionals in resource management, you would understand that using Linux and other open-source software would be frivolous at best due to the poor documentation and interfacing (especially with all those builds of Linux) incorporated in this free software. It's a corporate nightmare"
Resource management? It's people like you that tend to make horrible decisions regarding what is right or wrong for the company regarding technology. Especially when you don't fully understand the situation.
Ok "pal" go and spend a lot of your companies money... do it.. do it. - ctheory, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Very true, Josh.
At the same time, the only difference I can say is that maybe the pay is higher for them in those areas because it's a bigger city, and the cost of living is much higher. Just an idea. - multifaceted, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Since my off topic post will just blend it with the others:
Maybe teachers would get paid more if the stopped letting so many kids 'fall through the cracks.' Teach the students instead of giving busy work or bitching about not getting paid enough, do something like earn a raise instead of demanding it. - carguy84, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1lol, and out pour the blind Open Source fanbois, whoooohaaaa
Open source programs are great, but come on, it's freakin software. - gregcotten, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0And linsys - everything that you are saying is a load of crap (such as "Linux runs 10x more stable that Windows"... There is limited support for things that are automated in Windows (if installed) such as the incorporation of a Novell Client - enabling administrators to restrict priveledges via LAN - leveling out the so called "stable" environment.
- gregcotten, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Go flip burgers? Check my paycheck, pal.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"Go flip burgers? Check my paycheck, pal."
Because a large paycheck = large penis. - gregcotten, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0@expecting a flame response *braces himself*
- gregcotten, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0not sure how to cancel my account - it will still be active
- gregcotten, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Sorry pal, I'm too high up to deal with those petty matters.
- gregcotten, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0I'm done with digg - too many people that are stubborn (haha - kindof like myself).
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0One of the many reasons I stop reading /. is because of all these pro-Open Source articles.
We get the point already! - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0Then they realised that the software is too hard to use and then decided to go back to the better OS.
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