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Reincarnating a discarded laptop with Linux
desktoplinux.com — Do you have an old laptop sitting in a closet somewhere, taking up room and gathering dust? You might be able to get some surprisingly good service out of the old clunker -- if you know how to revive it by installing an appropriate Linux distro. This article says just what to do.
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- doolittle, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11My 500mhz/256m dell latitude and my 266mhz/128m compaq armada are happy with ubuntu / xubuntu respectfully, hibernation and wireless fully works on both out-of-the-box.
Both systems had XP pro on them (were corporate hand-me-downs), the dell was bearable but the 10gb hdd was full, the 266 was extremely painful. Both systems are fully useable once again!
I do have an ancient dx4-75 toshiba collecting dust, maybe I will give one of the smaller / quicker distros a go on that one - have a feeling anything on that will be slow ;-)- 7of7, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11Do you use security like wep/wpa2 on your wireless routers? I really wanted Ubuntu to work but it wouldn't cooperate with my security so I ditched it. The people at the Ubuntu forums were less than helpful.
- r2d7, on 10/12/2007, -52/+4@ doolittle - wow, must suck to be broke like you and have a pair of craptops. Maybe you should investigate a job (or a change in jobs).
- bolero421, on 10/12/2007, -1/+23@ r2d7
Not everyone can afford and / or needs the latest and greatest laptop with a 2.0 GHz Core Due processor, 120GB hard drive and 2GB of RAM. For some people older, less powerful systems do the job that is required of them perfectly fine. Try to remember this next time you want to wave your e-penis in other peoples' faces.
Back on topic, I'm still amazed that a modern operating system such as Ubuntu can run so well on slower hardware. I guess that just goes to show what a well-designed/coded OS can do. - trogdoor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@7of7 The people at Ubuntuforums are nice speedy and good at explaining things to new users but beyond simple questions... I had around 10 unanswered threads on Ubuntuforums and I finally reluctantly tried IRC ( I really don't like the multiple conversations going on at once ) and 9 of my ten problems that had all been unanswerable for over a month on Ubuntuforums were answered on IRC in one day. Then http://alpha.qunu.com started up and it has real experts without the pains of IRC ( if you don't like IRC ). Also, I assume you have already tried WPA supplicant?
- r2d7, on 10/12/2007, -35/+1"Not everyone can afford"
Hence my remark about finding a job, or a new job.
"or needs the latest and greatest laptop with a 2.0 GHz Core Due processor, 120GB hard drive and 2GB of RAM."
There's what ... 12 years worth of better machinery than those pieces of crap you're proud of. Anything below a gigahurtz is just embarrassing.
"For some people older, less powerful systems do the job that is required of them perfectly fine."
For some people newer, more powerful systems do many jobs, instead of some relic from the early/mid 90's chugging away on a single job.
"Try to remember this next time you want to wave your e-penis in other peoples' faces."
Next time you see my e-penis waving in your face, how about you e-kiss it? - elstupidos, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13@ R2D7
Way to show off how much of an idiot you are. Isnt one of main things that many linux gurus tout is running linux for older machines.
Not everyone can afford to buy a new laptop every year or so. Especially if they have family to support. And if someone can put linux on an older laptop and have it useful for the purposes they need it, for then why bother spending more money. - CharlesDarwin, on 10/12/2007, -4/+3TFA doesn't mention Gentoo, which is perfectly for optimizable for laptops, and easy to install using distcc or even a laptop harddrive to ide connector on a faster machine in a chroot environment. Seriously, this ***** is so easy a fscking noob could do it!
@dolittle, I can only imagine how quickly xp pro filled up a 10 gig drive... - doolittle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@7of7 - yes WEP works, and I supplimented with OpenVPN / ssh tunneling for some added security on a server's dedicated nic - and pretty much treat WEP and open network with the same respect.
The sweet deal with that setup is, I can securely connect over both wireless and the internet which is handy for when I am on the starbucks lan, or on vacation at the in-laws or at work and want to tunnel https over ssh ;) - doolittle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@r2d7 - they were free, and so was the WEP wireless equipment since people like you like to get WPA running since they do not grasp the "tunneling" concept to secure an open connection - really it is no different than internet DMZ imho...
- somerandomnerd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6@r2d7;
Some people think that there are things in life that are more important than how many GHz their computer runs at, and would rather get the best out of what they already have than constantly strive to just have more.
Some people would rather spend their cash on their friends and family than on the latest cutting edge machine that won't be impressing anyone in 6 months or so.
Some people choose their jobs because of what they want to achieve or do with their lives, rather than what they want to earn and spend like good little consumers, and simply don't have money to burn on computer-related commodities, but do have a need for things like email and web browsers.
Some people don't *want* to have the computing equivalent of a buying a brand new gas-guzzling SUV every year even though it's a complete waste of energy and resources to have a five litre engine doing the job a 2.0 (or even less) could happily manage, just so they can let everyone know they can afford it. - Jaymoon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Not knocking linux or anything, but seriously, if a laptop is your secondary computer, do you really need the latest and greatest laptop to run linux?
You're not gaming, so what do you need all that for. I doubt you're converting video, or re-encoding DVDs while sitting in the park.
More than likely you'd be checking email, surfing the web, or typing/coding. - LFTravel, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I recently took an old computer with Win98 and put Debian on it, first using Fluxbox, and then IceWM. It works great now. It was full of spyware when it was running Win98.
- snuffulupagus, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10Yay for puppy linux! I found it even more user friendly than Ubuntu.
- siedam2000, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6@70f7
You need to install the wpasupplicant package as well as network manager, once you have both installed (and after a reboot) wpa should work. Google around for it and you will find an answer, that's how i found it.- Hiker, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Unless he has a ralink adapter, in which case WPA is part of the driver and just needs to be configured in /etc/network/interfaces. In fact, I had wpa_supplicant installed and when using WPA, after about 1 minute I'd lose connection to the network. Removed wpa_supplicant and it solved that little prob (I have a rt2500 based adapter and I use WPA)
- drmatto, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5i recently installed ubuntu on an old Compaq evo.
positives: easier install than i thought it would be (xubuntu would install mind u?), connected to the net very easily, had some useful productivity programs, worked snappily despite 256 ram.
negatives: couldn't share files easily, installing other programs was difficult, battery stopped charging?
it is now my emergency back up lap top. i would not consider using it daily and do not prefer Linux at all cf windows or mac. - Michael, on 10/12/2007, -9/+3A lot of these only work with the text-based form of the distro. I would preferrably use it just as a firewall or something, but then you lose the portability, o well.
- trogdoor, on 10/12/2007, -6/+5Congratulations, your post makes no sense whatsoever.
- kubudubudubuntu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8/* A lot of these only work with the text-based form of the distro." */
// Or a lighter desktop enviroment, like xfce. Where you can still run all Linux applications.
/* I would preferrably use it just as a firewall or something, but then you lose the portability, o well. */
// Running a laptop as a server is NOT a good idea,, esp. an old laptop...
- BaltazarZoltar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6What worked for me is Damn Small Linux .
64MB RAM only 4th hand Compaq laptop and watching Star Trek TOS every night
(DivX format and I am on Season 3) :-)
And what's more : using Audacity to record multi track music :-)
I love DSL - gbm85, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I've actually found that older memory tends to be *more* expensive than the new stuff, due to less of it being available. Nice article, though.
- Pignanelli, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2Am I the only one who realizes Linux is the reason Microsoft if backing off on it's GMA initiative?
- whitehornmatt, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Yes
- nstanosheck, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I put Yellow Dog Linux 3.x on my young daughter's old Apple PowerBook 3400c and now it is a very funtional and now fast again machine that she can do everything she needs on, plus play a number of games that she enjoys too!
FYI: A 3400c maxed out has only a (G2) PowerPC 603e processor at 240 MHz, 144 MB, 3 GB HD. - drag, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"Do you use security like wep/wpa2 on your wireless routers?"
It depends on your drivers.
The reason you may have not gotten help is due possibly to a veriaty of reasons:
A. The people in the forum didn't know the answer.
B. The answer is well documented in many places and people didn't want to bother with a question you can easily figure out the answer to yourself.
C. You asked the question badly. Didn't give usefull information, was insulting to the people there, talked loudly about how "Windows this is easy and if linux ever wants to be accepted on the Desktop, blah blah blah" or something like that.
D. Asked in the wrong place.
Or a few other reasons along those lines.
Usually the reason people have a hard time getting WEP to work is the drivers. People using things like NDIS wrapper to get stuff to work shouldn't be suprised that Windows drivers in Linux don't work out to hot sometimes. Stuff like that.
If your using a decent wifi card that supports this sort of thing in Linux then making sure that your card has no configuration in /etc/network/interfaces file and then install network-manager-gnome
Network manager is a system designed specificly for mobile Linux users. The version in Dapper should support WEP as well as WPA and WPA2 depending on the driver.. Mostly the intel stuff. However I successfully use the bcm43xx (this is for broadcom based 80211g cards, ndiswrapper is worthless for me since I am not using a x86 laptop) driver from the stock 2.6.17 and newer kernels with WEP and network manager. (haven't tried WPA or WPA2). Atheros based wifi cards (stuff that uses madwifi drivers) may work also.
With the bcm43xx driver it requires a firmware image which you need to rip out of a Windows XP or OS X airport extreme (doesn't matter which) driver. There are tools aviable in Ubuntu make this trivially easy. There are some nice wikis on the subject with instructions you can follow.
You can find good docs about getting all these types of things working. How well it works for you is not certain. Wifi in Linux is being solved, but it's going to take at least until the next version of Ubuntu before it works mostly flawlessly for most people.- drag, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Sorry this post was ment to be a reply to 7of7's post at the top of the comments. I forget silly digg messes up the reply when you click the 'reply' button and are prompted to log in.
His post was:
""Do you use security like wep/wpa2 on your wireless routers? I really wanted Ubuntu to work but it wouldn't cooperate with my security so I ditched it. The people at the Ubuntu forums were less than helpful."" - trogdoor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"With the bcm43xx driver it requires a firmware image which you need to rip out of a Windows XP or OS X airport extreme (doesn't matter which) driver. There are tools aviable in Ubuntu make this trivially easy. There are some nice wikis on the subject with instructions you can follow."
Or just download this and extract the zipped files to /lib/firmware http://trogdoor.googlepages.com/firmware.zip
Should work for almost all broadcom cards
- drag, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Sorry this post was ment to be a reply to 7of7's post at the top of the comments. I forget silly digg messes up the reply when you click the 'reply' button and are prompted to log in.
- geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Last year I revived an old cracked laptop running win 98. Linux worked great, then it came to wireless networking.
Dear jesus, wireless networking is a pain in the ass with linux. I've added linux kernel patches, I love linux, but wireless drivers are about as fun as video drivers.
I use WPA, not insecure WEP.. WEP worked, but I will only use WPA. Problem is WPA is a problem with linux. ndiswrapper was buggy. I couldnt get the wpa supplicant going but I did manage to compile the rt2500 beta drivers. Then the dirt cheap linksys device would fail every once inawhile. I managed to hardcode the SSID and get it to work OK.
But it's nothing like XP's zero-config wireless networking, not even close. XP = point and click, type in the password.
I'm getting a laptop for work this month and it will use XP not linux, I'm done playing games with wireless and video. I blame these driver problems on the GPL. All the neat cutting edge stuff is closed source, which means no one can ship those closed source drivers. GL drivers, wireless.. all the recent innovations(recent for linux at least) are just a pain in the ass with linux.
So redhat can't support the closed source drivers, no one can.. they're just underground. It's similar to making drugs illegal, it's going to happen, forbidding the shipping of closed source drivers will just make things unhealthy. Our thirst for the cutting edge won't subside. So we must deal with hacking config files and compiling kernel modules to get wireless and video working decently.- drag, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5haha.
The whole point of Linux for the vast majority of developers is having a Free software and open source operating system. Without the GPL there would be no Linux. The most fanatic pro-open source guys are the ones that have devoted their lives for Linux and work the hardest at it and contribute the most code. If you want to use closed source stuff using OpenSolaris. That's their whole thing. They LOVE stable internal ABI's and support closed source driver developers..
Oh, wait.. OpenSolaris has ***** for hardware support. Go figure. Nevermind.
But FreeBSD has no legal issues with closed source drivers, too! They care about stable internal ABIs... oh wait. It's hardware support sucks also, (although it's better then OpenSolaris) and even though their license doesn't have issues with closed source drivers FreeBSD will never ship with them.. Go figure. Nevermind.
But there is OS X! They are closed source and love closed source drivers... Oh, wait... You have to purchase Apple-specific hardware (which they support very very well) and they don't support nearly as much stuff as either OpenSolaris, FreeBSD, or Linux.. Go figure Nevermind.
As far as wireless stuff goes it's not a closed source vs open source thing. The Linux kernel developers dropped the ball on wireless devices. They figured they were just ethernet cards with no wires.. They are in fact very complex half hardware half software radio devices and the Linux kernel devs weren't prepared to support them.
Since then they figured out were they screwed up and are rectifying the situation rapidly. BTW, WPA sucks also. I use a VPN, you should also if you actually care about wireless security.
If your using Ubuntu or Debian there is a handy program called module-assistant. It's job is to help you compile and install 3rd party modules that Debian/Ubuntu have packaged in source packages.
For instance to install the rt2500 modules (carefull make sure you remove custom-installed versions before you use distro packaged versions)
sudo su -
(make sure you have universe repositories installed in Ubuntu)
apt-get install module-assistant
m-a update
m-a prepare
m-a a-i rt2500
Makes things a bit easier. If you run module-assistant with no arguements it will drop you into a ncurses dialog wizard thingy. - geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11)Open Solaris isn't a desktop OS, why would people want the latest and greatest on open solaris? That analogy doesn't fly.
2)Open BSD isn't targeted to the desktop like linux
3)OS X was designed from the start to work with apple hardware.
I guarantee you that if redhat said, "OK, we support XX's closed source wireless driver", then you and I and everyone else could download redhat and know that wireless.. not just WEP, but WPA, will indeed work.
What if they then said, "We support XX's closed source video driver." Instantly, there will be no messing with xorg.conf/proprietary drivers(and no the open source drivers don't cut it). It will "just work." Like windows.
-WPA sucks also.
Huh, care to back this up? If you have a long enough random password, you can crack it? Link please?
WPA's security depends on the strength of the key. WEP security, well there is little to no security, it's not a function of key length or randomness, it's straight using holes in WEP. There are no such holes in WPA unless you can point them out.
Although those commands for installing on ubuntu are easy, you still have to hack config files - with XP the networks come up and I just choose a password. Works, no messing around. If redhat and everyone supported closed source drivers, linux would have the same functionality. The kernel devs arent the problem - the rt2500 got open sourced relatively recently. - doolittle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@geronimo
Would it not be possible to make a WEP or open wireless secure with a vpn client? Or maybe tunneling ssh over it? Or both, using knockd to open up the firewall port for either?
A good argument is, the WPA security makes a wireless connection as secure as ssh or a vpn client - that is why it's used over the internet. - somerandomnerd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"I'm done playing games with wireless and video. I blame these driver problems on the GPL. All the neat cutting edge stuff is closed source, which means no one can ship those closed source drivers. "
Bizzare logic. I'd blame the people making the closed source drivers.
- drag, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5haha.
- dohidied, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Cool article. I wish I had some old hardware to install Linux on. Maybe I'll find a replacement mobo for my dead computer.
- Indrek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Interesting article.
Does anyone have any suggestions for my Compaq Aero 4/33c? With a 486SX (33 MHz) and 12 MB of RAM it's below the requirements of any of the distros mentioned in the article. Right now it's running Windows for Workgroups 3.11 flawlessly, but I'm interested in trying Linux on it as well.- cazabam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3For that you'll need to dig out an OLD distro. RedHat 5 springs to mind. It was widely used when it was released as a learning distro, and has a good amount of software included with it. It's a single CD and is available from here:
ftp://archive.download.redhat.com/pub/redhat/linux
I have recently installed redhat 7.3 on a Toshiba Satellite Pro 480CDT (233MHz, 32MB RAM) and it runs absolutely fine. It can't manage Gnome or Kde (they require at least 64MB of RAM) but I got the latest IceWM and it is now a perfectly usable machine. - slothing, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Look at DeLi Linux, which targets OLD computers:
http://www.delilinux.de/ - Indrek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2DeLi looks like it'd do the trick. Thanks!
- cazabam, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3For that you'll need to dig out an OLD distro. RedHat 5 springs to mind. It was widely used when it was released as a learning distro, and has a good amount of software included with it. It's a single CD and is available from here:
- DigitalDust, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I did this about 2 years ago with a friend of mine´s old lap top. After they had paid some useless guy a lot of money to make it work again by reinstalling their old windows OS . He had loaded it with more crap than before and they asked me to try and fix it but I asked them what they want to do with it and they said email and internet and that was all, so I convinced them to install Linux so they gave me the laptop and I tried Mandrake and Suse but both were to big and needed more power to run ( it was a really old laptop) so I installed the KNOPPIX live CD as the OS and it worked perfectly.
They were so happy and then a week or two later they bought a new Mac, go figure.
All that work for nothing. - grapfx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I've installed Ubuntu in the past on an old Vaio laptop that had a dvd drive but could only handle 128 K of ram. Everything worked out of the box except the ethernet card, which I think would have worked if I wasn't such a linux newbie back then. This was the first Vaio with a dvd drive made and was built for Win Me. I have 3 old laptops I think I will install DSL and/or Ubuntu on. I think it's fun to try to get these old POS's running again.
- somerandomnerd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@R2D7
Some people don't *want* to have the computing equivalent of a buying a brand new gas-guzzling SUV every year just so they can let everyone know they can afford it, even though it's a complete waste of energy and resources to have a five litre engine doing the job a 2.0 (or even less) could happily manage
Some people think that there are things in life that are more important than how many GHz their computer runs at, and would rather get the most use out of what they already have than constantly strive to just have more.
Some people would rather spend their cash on their friends and family than on the latest cutting edge machine that won't be impressing anyone in 6 months or so.
Some people choose their jobs because of what they want to achieve or do with their lives, rather than what they want to earn and spend like good little consumers.
On the other hand, some people are just dicks.- doolittle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1cant' agree more, flame bait like that says "i'm overcompensating for my many shortcomings". Well that's what I gathered on what his wife told me...
If I get that 75mhz laptop and it is useable, it would bring my laptop count to 6 and yes I do have two modern centrino laptops that are able to run windows or linux and have both connect to my network securely, be it locally or at starbucks. R2D7's WPA can't help him over the internet, and if he knew how to secure an open network he might get a paycheck as big as mine - but in his dreams. noobs assume much!
His wife also wished he had something else as big as mine ;-)
- doolittle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1cant' agree more, flame bait like that says "i'm overcompensating for my many shortcomings". Well that's what I gathered on what his wife told me...
- slothing, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Installed Xubuntu on our old 366 mHz Gateway, which had become unbootable after upgrading McCafe anti-virus software (on Win98, don't ask.) I've never been a fan of Gnome, and XFce is MUCH better for older hardware.
Here's the kicker: my wife loves it, and uses it almost daily! She can plug her USB memory stick in and it appears without fanfare or hassle on the desktop. Abiword works great for her schoolwork or teaching documents. Networking works well, Firefox is fantastic. What more can you say?
If (X)ubuntu can get my wife to love Linux, that is a true achievement!
One caveat: use the alternate install disk (console interface), I had problems with the standard disk, which installs from X.- slothing, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I should have noted that she has a fast desktop of her own w/WinXP, but still uses the Xubuntu laptop system often!
- pobster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Heh, great timing - I'm just in process of 'reincarnating' a laptop as a Puppy Linux machine. Pentium 166MMX 64Mb Ram but still reasonably ok to use. Takes a few seconds to open Opera 9 but then is fine. Was given in for free as the household already had 3 PC's and now a shiny new Toshiba Laptop.
I love it! It's a weird loking grey/green and even has scooby do stickers on it. It's the mystery machine! - inajeep, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1ubuntu came at a good time so I took my Dell Inpiron 4000 w/ 512MB and installed it quickly and easily two weeks ago. The only issue is the linksys wpc54g card. Trying to get it to work has been a hassle that will drive most drink. I found what I think it is a good FAQ on installing my rev card but haven't tried it yet.
- unitedstatians, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Which Indispensable OS is the Requisite to Awaken an Old Laptop?
Hey I wanted to get some more use outah my old Laptop it was an investment I made in 1997.
Here's what I've researched you will need an OS (Operating Systems) and windows manager (nothing to do with windows more to do with desktop theme) or user interface (UI) at the top of the list are the most popular essential OSes for installations on a Old laptop like mine. Enjoy my list. My laptop is a Compaq Armada 7330t, CPU pentium1 166mhz, 92 MB of RAM (upgraded from 16MB), HDD 3.0GB
Debian (Knoppix 3.9 or below) (Download)
Damn Small Linux v2.3 (Download)
Windows 2000 (Link)
Windows 98se (Link)
FreeBSD 5.3 (Download)
SUSE 9.1 (Download)
Slackware 10.2 9 (Download)
Puppy Linux 1.0.7 (Download)
Vector Linux Standard: 5.1 (Download)
Austrumi v1.1.0 (Download)
Basic Linux (BL) (Download)
Feather Linux (Download)
PocketLinux (Download)
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