What is Digg?Sponsored by Dragon Age: Origins
Can't get enough Dragon Age: Origins? Check out new footage. view!
DragonAge.BioWare.com - EA presents BioWare's new dark fantasy epic Dragon Age: Origins. '9/10' from Game Informer.
115 Comments
- anokun7, on 05/25/2009, -17/+50FTA: "because the Swiss agency asserted there was no sufficient alternative to Microsoft products."
In this age of the internet, you must be joking!
We should support Red Hat & FSF in this case with everything we can. - retoretoreto, on 05/26/2009, -1/+23It's not about punishing them, but to give open source-alternatives a fair consideration. Something they actually have to do by law..
http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&pre ... - daftman, on 05/26/2009, -1/+21> Imagine the uproar if MS sued a graphics design firm for using only Apple computers.
You know the differences between government organizations and other commercial companies right? - jakem1, on 05/26/2009, -1/+19Switzerland isn't part of the EU.
- dkitch, on 05/26/2009, -17/+34Buried for misleading headline. They're suing over a no-bid contract, not a monopoly in Switzerland. An entity or organization should be allowed to make contracts with whoever the hell they want. If they decide that MS software is the best software for the job, then that should be their decision. They shouldn't be forced to be "fair" and include everyone just because some folks feel left out. Imagine the uproar if MS sued a graphics design firm for using only Apple computers.
- daPhoenix, on 05/26/2009, -4/+20"Swiss government contract"
Whilst I don't know what the Swiss system is like but here it is required for a gov't entity to have a public bid on a project - this ensures competition and fair playing field for all participants - not to mention they're using public funds, a slightly different argument than a business entity choosing their tools. - daPhoenix, on 05/26/2009, -2/+16Since there was no public bid and there was no inquiry to the possible alternative systems, how exactly did you come to the conclusion that other competing systems cannot provide the same results at a lower cost than the Microsoft offering?
Since we're talking about a vendor lock-in product like almost every single Microsoft product is (ever tried to migrate an Exchange installation to an alternative system? Fun times, that) you might as well save money on the long run.
Even if RedHat has an offering that may cost more in the short term because you have to re-train some workers (although that's hardly an issue as you can customize most of the Linux distributions nowadays and more or less everyone who has used a Windows and is introduced to a Mac is pretty familiar with it in a few days) there may (and usually are) cost savings in the long term.
You can keep paying Microsoft for your locked system or you can choose an alternative one that you can hire local people to improve instead of relying on US based corporate entity to improve.
And for those who didn't read the article (99,9% of Digg people that is);
"Even within Switzerland, Red Hat countered the bureau's argument, by pointing to several Swiss agencies, including the City of Zurich, the Federal Agency for Computer Sciences and Telecommunictions (BIT), and the Federal Institute for Intellectual Property (IGE), who are Red Hat customers."
Seems like the Redhat system is fine for other Swiss agencies, I guess it took them a "long time" to re-train their people.. - daftman, on 05/26/2009, -10/+22It is pathetic to see Digg is overrun by a bunch of fapping Microsoft drones.
I can get more insightful comments from 4chan. - Woofermazing, on 05/26/2009, -1/+13Europe is not hostile to open source, I'm pretty sure it leads in open source usage.
- daftman, on 05/26/2009, -4/+15Ever heard of Zimbra, OpenLDAP and Linux?
- thinkloop, on 05/26/2009, -6/+17Nobody needs exchange, they need email. Nobody needs active directory, they need a way to manage users, groups and assets. Linux offers compelling options in these spaces that are time-tested and true. And who knows, maybe linux plus the additional training only comes out to 4 million euros... it's worth a little bit of study to save half the YEARLY cost, especially when it's the law.
- 4DFX, on 05/26/2009, -0/+11He said Europe though.
- 4DFX, on 05/26/2009, -0/+10What exactly are they successful at?
Here's a clue: it's not their products - mrBitch, on 05/26/2009, -1/+10@ computershack, RE: "... If Linux is so good, how come it can't compete on its own merits ... "
You complete idiot... you posted a comment without reading the article didn't you?
If you HAD read the article, you would have understood that nobody had a CHANCE to compete, the whole thing was an under-the-table deal :
FTA :
"... Red Hat is seeking a public bidding process... "
When you make a post on a subject you didn't even bother actually reading about, well ... that just calls you out as a clue-less idiot. - Myztry, on 05/26/2009, -3/+12I really can't see why Governments aren't rolling out their own purpose built Operating Systems and supporting software. An Operating System is like essential infrastructure. It helps determines the health and success of the economy, and indeed the entire nation.
Governments certainly have the resources to develop their own operating system infrastructure. They make Google and Microsoft look absolutely tiny by scale. Governments spend trillions on individual projects. They are the largest customer any company could have. Why are they giving money away to 3rd parties that get to dictate what that product will consist of?
Governments can use the highest level encryption protocols available without watering them down to export level. They shouldn't need worry about whether the latest Conficker is busy slipping national secrets out a back door.
Governments have very specific crucial requirements. They should not be basing everything on the lowest common denominators of computing designed to sate masses. They should not be subject to 3rd party control. They should man up and take control of how their countries vital systems work. - daPhoenix, on 05/26/2009, -2/+11Looks like the gov't workers here are more intelligent than over there since we've been able to adopt Linux on desktops and servers without issues.
- VanishingLex, on 05/26/2009, -0/+9Governments are obliged to find the most efficient way to spend public funds, its part of their remit. Hence the legal challenge is that the swiss govt did not properly investigate the best way to spend public funds on IT.
Business are not under any particular spending remits, they only care if its legal and if it makes them a profit/gets them customers to make profit.
Govts are obliged by their mandate and core purpose to act in the interests of the citizens (even non-taxpayers) business are only compelled to act in the interests of the citizens where they are legally obliged to.
It might surprise you to hear that govts are not just supposed to be "if you dont like them you can vote them out in 3-5 years," but they are supposed to act according to certain principles of national interest WHILST they are in power too. - mscamara, on 05/26/2009, -2/+10Exchange =! email
- IamNomad, on 05/26/2009, -2/+10as a unix admin i hate to say it but youre right about exchange. for ease of setup and integration ,mobile devices,shared content .. there isnt really a better tool then exchange for the dollars.
Office.. I haven't opened since 03. - warp99, on 05/26/2009, -1/+9No-bid tenders with government exclude competitors from obtaining contracts arbitrarily since the process is not transparent. It's allows for back room deals were corruption can flourish. Open and transparent government is needs to keep tabs on the process or you'll end up with something similar to the machinations of the Bush administration. Do I have any takers for more of that fiasco?
All of these anecdotal stories Microsoft lackeys dream up can't get away from the fact that no-bid tenders are anti-competitive, anti-transparent, and anti-democratic. The role of government is to severe in the best interest of the people and that process should be as open as possible to make damn sure we the people are getting our money's worth. If things were reversed and Microsoft was the one excluded i would feel exactly the same way.
- keyo, on 05/26/2009, -1/+9I think you mean !=
:) - daPhoenix, on 05/26/2009, -4/+12Visit www.novell.com and their Enterprise products for management and Enterprise grade support for Linux.
Yes, the tools exist - you just don't know how to use them. - warp99, on 05/26/2009, -10/+18No public tender is ridiculous. Here is the states everyone screamed bloody murder about the no-bid contracts that Halibuton was given. How is this any different?
- Kloran, on 05/26/2009, -1/+8Really? I don't want you speaking for Microsoft. You are the reason that daftman had a semi-legitimate comment about drones. Just stop. You are making every rational Microsoft "fan" look moronic.
- satcomer, on 05/26/2009, -1/+8CressCrowbits just use Thunderbird: http://www.mozillamessaging.com/en-US/thunderbird/
- warp99, on 05/26/2009, -0/+7"Bids are one of those things that work great in theory, terrible in practice."
So is democracy, but do you really want the alternative? - bretkuhns, on 05/26/2009, -1/+8/s
? - daPhoenix, on 05/26/2009, -7/+14And awesomely forces you into a permanent vendor lock-in.
How would you like if the only television you could ever buy came from Sony?
Perhaps you would have no alternative to your music player than an iPod from Apple?
What if the only car brand you could buy was a Chevrolet?
And the list goes on.
How much easier would the world be if there just were no alternatives to anything? - 4DFX, on 05/26/2009, -1/+7I don't like those rules, that's why I use Linux.
- mrBitch, on 05/26/2009, -3/+9@ lukychmz, RE: "... ***** linux boo hoo, so they cant compete so they are gonna cry in court. Make a product as good as microsoft's ... "
You idiot, you posted a comment without reading the article didn't you?
If you HAD read the article, you would have understood that nobody had a CHANCE to compete, the whole thing was an under-the-table deal :
FTA :
"... Red Hat is seeking a public bidding process... "
When you make a post on a subject you didn't even bother actually reading about, well ... that just calls you out as a clue-less idiot. - VanishingLex, on 05/26/2009, -0/+6if you are buying for you or your company then you dont have to put it out for tender as your responsibility is to your shareholders or bottom line, they can force you to do so though if they think you not putting it out to tender is a poor decision.
If you are a government or public body then you have the public interest and efficiency built into your purpose more and as such you really ought to put it out to tender in a sitaution where there are possible viable alternatives that may be cheaper, as thats in the public interest, which is your purpose. - Rubis1, on 05/26/2009, -0/+6Because you don't want those. You want the things that they do, which could very well be done just as well or better by someone else.
- mrBitch, on 05/26/2009, -3/+9jsmith212600
Tags: can't learn new things, unable to change, slow thought processes - daPhoenix, on 05/26/2009, -2/+8If AMD CPUs were so good, why did they have to take Intel to court over their business practices?
Oh snap. - Rubis1, on 05/26/2009, -1/+6Since my school switched to Zimbra for email, it has actually worked, as opposed to the old Exchange based system.
Also, we use Linux (mostly RHEL), Solaris, and Mac for almost everything. You have to have a specific need for Windows to even use some of the Windows computers. - Myztry, on 05/26/2009, -0/+5Windows is a custom project. OSX is a custom project. Linux is a custom project.
They are all custom projects designed to meet the ends of those developing it. The first two to make money and gain market leverage, and the second for broader more dynamic reasons.
Open Source would provide Governments with a solid base to work with. They could ask for, or grant themselves exemptions from any requirements. They are after all the creators and enforcers of law - opposed to being just being those who think they are.
That would not be unreasonable. Computer systems in Government are very much a concern of national security. Instead of dicking around with things like sticking [SEC] in email subject lines, they could be implementing systems where secured communications is purpose built rather than an afterthought.
Groups of people are developing custom Open Source based OSes with all but no budget. Now, if you change that budget to say $100 per computer over 2 million (or whatever) government computers then I'm sure $200 million dollars could get you pretty much anything you want. And if it's $2 million over budget, then add another dollar per computer...
It would also be a great way to stimulate the economy by employing a programming taskforce that the likes of Microsoft could only dream about... - warp99, on 05/26/2009, -0/+4You could have linked to the english version of the same article minus the translation:
http://www.h-online.com/open/Open-source-businesse ...
That way we don't have to read something that looks like it was written by Colonel Klink. - staffa, on 05/26/2009, -0/+4False premise, automatically taking the lowest bid is an incredibly stupid, as you point out, idea that no decent organization would ever entertain. The bids are investigated with cost being only one of many details that they weigh before coming to a decision.
- w3ber, on 05/26/2009, -3/+7Switzerland is not in EU
- danjwray, on 05/26/2009, -1/+5are you high? did you read / understand the article. Governments are free to choose the best tool for the job, but must first find out what that is. They are spending public money, and have to justify it.
- mrBitch, on 05/26/2009, -0/+4@ computershack, RE: "... Nobody else got a look in because nobody else produces a 100% guaranteed compatible office suite ... "
Wow, so the reason Microsoft was chosen was due to the fact that only MS Office is 100% compatible with MS Office ?
You really are a complete idiot. - warp99, on 05/26/2009, -1/+5Because you just arbitrarily demanded that you needed these without giving any reasons. An open tender would provide transparency with what the government's needs and expectations were and ask the question can they be meet with competitive products. By making a unilateral decision without a process for public oversight is just like I stated, it's anti-competitive, anti-transparent, and anti-democratic.
The pinnacle of efficiency is a dictatorship, you want to know why? One person makes all the decisions without the need for pesky elections or committee's wasting valuable time and money. He can make any decision he wants and the people have to follow it.
So you saying "I want MS Windows and MS Office" would be exactly the same as what a dictator would say. If would also be exactly the same if you have said "I want Novell and Star Office", there's no difference. - Rubis1, on 05/26/2009, -1/+4So, why didn't Apple get a chance either? They have Office for Mac.
The point is that it is an exclusive deal that no one else even got to have any say about, not whether or not Linux is the best tool for the job. - twiztidsinz, on 05/26/2009, -2/+5Actually... since he's defending Haliburton, I'd guess he's a conservatard.
Also... You don;t need to tag comments...
It's not a feature of digg for a reason. Idiot. - Rubis1, on 05/26/2009, -1/+4Actually, there is a law that says they do have to.
Ford could sue Switzerland if they didn't have a chance to present their trucks first. Switzerland could then legally choose the Toyota trucks. - uskomaton, on 05/26/2009, -1/+4They didn't give themselves the option of CHOICE and as a government they are required to take bids from everyone before the CHOOSE, but they didn't do that.
- kimbja98, on 05/26/2009, -9/+12Unless they're referring to Microsoft Office or Exchange...both of which are much better than the equivalent open source alternatives. Computers are merely tools and the best tool for the job should be the one chosen. OSS wins in some areas, Microsoft in others. The 2 don't have to be used exclusively, ideally you would use both, to minimise common mode failure.
Strange how the article doesn't mention Apple computers either (unless they're one of the 17 vendors), since they have a 5-10% market share whereas Linux is 1-2% (on the desktop). - inactive, on 05/26/2009, -3/+6I hate Monopoly.
- Feldon, on 05/28/2009, -0/+2@ Twiztidsinz
"The GIMP is touted as the Linux alternative to Photoshop. I don't think you'll find many professionals using The GIMP when they could have access to Photoshop." it would be nice if you informed your self just a little more about Gimp and Photoshop and who uses what. Pixar uses Linux and and Open-Source software to make there Moives. - kimbja98, on 05/26/2009, -0/+2"customers who bought 2003 but can't open their rich vendors 2007 version's files."
Yes, you can :) In fact our office installed the docx etc plugins enabling us to open and save 2007 files quite easily from 2003.
http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?Fa ... -
Show 51 - 100 of 116 discussions
Browsing Digg on your phone just got easier with our enhancements to the 
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is