What is Digg?91 Comments
- i440, on 10/12/2007, -5/+132Sounds like a [...buffering...] great idea to me.
- Tsiolkovsky, on 10/12/2007, -7/+54The best thing would be to just stop using these crappy and closed formats and just advance to using fully open and documented multimedia formats.
- chris9902, on 10/12/2007, -12/+47I would rather watch an animated gif file than use Real player.
- dukeinlondon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+34would be better if they supported ALL Real streams in the first place. It can't play the streams on science tv (not sure about the site's name).
Mplayer works fine for everything else to be honnest. - scheper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+28"Just have 1 video file type and 1 audio type."
It can't really work that way. Company power struggles aside, different codecs are useful for different things. There are codecs designed for cartoons, codecs for screen captures, codecs for slow movement animations, codecs for fast movement animation. It'd be hard to put it all into one codec. - jejones, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21@scheper: Read The Fine Article.
"Currently, Linux users can play Windows Media Video (WMV) and Windows Media Audio (WMA) content if they install closed-source modules....That will change as the result of a licensing deal RealNetworks has signed with Microsoft and its settlement of an antitrust suit against the software giant. It will release open-source code to play the files..."
Of course, the day after this happens, version N+1 of Windows Media Player will come out, with a codec that breaks compatibility with what Real releases... - scheper, on 10/12/2007, -3/+22"Plus you can't have DRM with it :D"
You can have DRM with OGG. You can have DRM with any kind of file. - kerrle, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19It is important to point out that Realplayer on Linux is very different than what most Windows users are used to - it's got a very clean interface, and doesn't do any of the bad stuff that they've been guilty of in the past.
I do tend to use Totem or Mplayer more just for the better codec support, but really, Real's been pretty good to Linux lately, and having a legal way to play Windows Media will mean a lot to some people - business customers, particularly. - jrepin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18@livestradamus
Ogg by itself isn't very usefull. It is a container format. Which means that it is used to contain something else, like audio, video or some other meta data (artist name, subtitles, ...). Similar to Matroska for example or the old avi container format.
What you probably wanted to say is Vorbis audio format contained in an Ogg container format, or shortly Ogg Vorbis. And yes Ogg Vorbis is some extremely good format and quite an advanced one. It would be simply great if it replaced older formats that are closed and covered by patents.
There is also a completely open and free to use video format called Theora, but I guess it is not yet at the same level of quality as MPEG4 video files encoded with XviD or something similar.
BBC are also developing a completely free video format called Dirac. - sbrown123, on 10/12/2007, -1/+17It will run through the Helix Player.
- scheper, on 10/12/2007, -8/+23I don't really see the point here; there are already open source apps playing windows media files under Linux. As far as I can tell, they're not opening up the codecs, so I get the feeling I'm missing something.
Which wouldn't be the first time... - hsorbo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14And one architecture: Intel?
mplayer doesn't support real/wmv9 on other architectures, since the use real/windows's proprietary so/dll-files - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -15/+29Well, that's settled that then. Problem solved.
/sarcasm> - stian, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10Nothing new really...
A open source implementation of VC-1 (wmv3) is already in Mplayer (via FFMPEG) thanks to Kostyantin Sergiyovich Shishkov work during Google's summer of code project ( http://code.google.com/soc/ffmpeg/appinfo.html?csaid=5AA777DB19E2BB24 )
Check here for compiled version for mac:
http://zrb.livejournal.com/43922.html - KWhat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Ok first of all mplayer does not play windows media files. win32codecs play windows media files threw mplayer. Now correct me if I am wrong... Are the win32codecs packaged with mplayer the actual windows dll's? Second problem is that they are win32 not win64 so they dont work with my 64bit mplayer. RealPlayer could very well solve my video playing problems on x86_64 linux =P
- Mudhoney, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Yah, I've been playing just about every video format ever in Mplayer for a long time, since it supports native windows codecs. I'm pretty sure XINE is able to do the same thing.
- jsusanka, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8"That will change as the result of a licensing deal RealNetworks has signed with Microsoft and its settlement of an antitrust suit against the software giant."
ashame this kind of thing has to be brought about through lawsuits
and everybody wonders why microsoft is so deeply hated. - Darkan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I don't think 'Mplayer does this already' is the point here. The point is, another company is developing products for Linux. Even if it IS Real, it's encouraging news. The more companies who develop products for Linux, the more viable an option it becomes for users. I applaud Real for this, even though I probably will continue using Mplayer.
- junioraspirin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8actualy realplayer on linux isnt that bad. it is a simple player like media player classic (but with less features) it just plays realplayer content, thats it. now if only their windows program was like this.
hopefuly this will help linux users play windows media files 9+. wmv is the only format i have any problems with. - tangential, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Excellent. Seeing as helix is the core for the new trolltech greenphone, and qtopia in general, this means that when they support it, we do :)
- willcode4beer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Not to bust the whining but consider, RealNetworks is the only company that has put any effort to multimedia on linux. Microsoft and Apple have both pretended than Linux doesn't exist.
Real has had a player for linux for more than 6 years. I think its nice to see an increased effort in getting it up to date. A bonus, since this is in the Helix project, it means that many more OS's than Linux (Symbian, Solaris, HPUX, etc...) can get support for these formats. - t3hX, on 10/12/2007, -6/+11That's what the idea of Quicktime is...
And well, RealPlayer on OS X plays Quicktime. And with Flip4Mac, Quicktime can play WMV...
Still leaves the Linux people stuck though, unfortunately. - yasth, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The standard a few years ago was MPEG4 ASP, the standard now might be MPEG4 AVC(h264). The problem is neither one scales down to 56k (aka stream rate of 40k) looking as good as say Real. Also the standards are patent encumbered. Which means a company has to pay royalties per download (or more likely just say feh, and pay the max rather then try to track use). That is why Real lacks native support for h264 or Mpeg4 (except in the pro version) they do lean on quicktime if installed.
Besides even a well supported standard implemented today does nothing about the immense ammount of legacy feeds. Because of the sheer size of uncompressed video, there is rarely a "real" copy to re-encode from even should someone want to take the time.
Now my real hope is a wavelet based codec coming around sort of MJPEG2000 with interframe compression. - tikal26, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I think many people missunderstand this and don't see the point.
1.The exitment is not that you can play WMV and WMA file on linux but that you can do it legally.
2. It is all buil as part of the helix project, which is an open source project,It is a good example of a commercial companny using the open source model and having succes with it. You don't have to use Real player to use the engine. Amarok in Suse has a helix engine (still needs work). The software is going to be open source.
3. Realnetwroks has beign the only company that has shown support for multtimedia on Linux for a long time and I am gald to see them move foward with their work
4. They see a market for this, which means that they see Linux growing on the future or perhapos there is a good enough need now from Linux users. Hopefully this would be available to more than Novell users sooner rather than later
5. They might bring a music strore to Linux (one of the very last things I still use on Windows)
All this can only attract more users to Linux and open source and it shows that the open sopurce model works - GameGod, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Isn't Fluendo (http://www.fluendo.com/) working on something like this for GStreamer?
- neko, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4True. I love MPlayer very much, but loading those binary codecs makes me feel a little... unclean...
It would be nice to see open implementations of those codecs. Not just for the sake of being open, but so they can be legally distributed, and recompiled for your specific architecture. I'd like 64-bit versions, myself =) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10Great, now we will get all of the same damn nagging screens when installing the Real Player on Linux as we do on Windows!. Weeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeee.
Real Player is the MOST annoying piece of sh*t commercial software available. It needs to simply die on the vine. - t3hX, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5@mythos
>What about QuickTime's idea of having to pay to see full-screen content?
Yeah, that isn't too nice. But we are discussing video formats, not video players. There are tons of third party QT players that will do fullscreen. - brickbat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5If I understand this properly, it will be awesome! Up until now, the codecs themselves were not strictly legal. Thats why distros like Red Hat never included them. Now, the codecs will be open sourced - which means that anyone will be able to legally have the codecs installed default. The only problem is that helix player is crap.
- Mejogid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+31)a major distro cames stock with autopackage.
Autopackage has many problems, mostly dependancy resolution and incompatibility with other package formats. Although lack of cross compatability between distributions can be annoying, I personally have no problem with just double clicking a .deb file.
2)all software is now written in .package format
This would take a huge amount of effort that could be spent on further developing the software, with little forseeable benefit.
3)multimedia is already set up for you, via VLC
VLC doesn't support wmv9 on linux (legal reasons) as well as quite a few other formats, and requires libdvdcss2 to decode DVDs, which is of questionable legality.
4)all available hardware drivers are included, and for the missing ones(wireless) Wrappers with guis are included.
All common open source drivers are included, and the closed source ones are not included for a reason - they can not be vetted by developers and go directly against the philosophy of many distributions. It is stupid to suggest all drivers are included - this would most likely lead to many cds of just driver installation, forcing live cds on to dvds and multiple gigabyte downloads for the rest of us.
5)installing xgl is easy, because it's pre-packaged in .package format.
XGL is still in beta, and it's not just chucking some files in, it's modifying various config files that would be very risky to do automatically, since the user would not know how to reverse the changes.
6)Grub is nolonger ugly.
Grub is really no uglier than Microsoft's boot loader. The reason it looks like this is because it is restrained to 640x480 & 16 colours for compatability reasons - sure it might annoy you having to look at such a hooooooribly disgusting menu for a couple of settings, but it'd annoy other users alot more if they couldn't even get to a console because they have an older or obscure (eg. laptop) video card.
I'm sure you haven't considered that these things are not already done for a reason, but you may want to consider it. - bigtomrodney, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3For everyone that missed the point - Using Win32 Codecs is just that, you are not using native or open source drivers. There is also legal questions around this and the question of patents for anyone in the US using Mplayer and Xine.
Of course we all use them, but providing the *Open Source* Helix engine will remove these questions and make it easier for OEMs and Businesses to use Linux. Just one more step to mass adoption ;) - openedge1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Ok, my thought is, if this is an included package for Linux, I believe it will better the usability of Linux on the desktop. Everyone keeps saying No Digg, as Mplayer does all this for you. Yet, you must jump through hoops, and get a minor degree in rocket science to get it to work in the first place. I have followed the tutorials on the net, have the codec installed, and still cannot play .wmv (and yes, I have been using Linux for years now)
How do you enable the simplest user to play these formats? Include it as part of the distro, and have playability out of the box. This looks like what the Helix code is planned for. I for one, welcome ease and usability on the Linux desktop.
Big Digg from me. - sukimashita, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3ffmpeg, vlc, mplayer, Real Player, ...
After setting up GStreamer with all plugins I have to say that for instance Totem achieves a better video compatibility for me than all those players; including playback of WMV9 video using the pitfdll plugin even from within the browser already (Totem browser plugin). - kettlechips, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Remember when Netscape was stupid bloatware, now they have morphed into a great open-source browser. Perhaps the same will happen to Real?
- mc4_a, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Real Player for Linux...because Linux users deserve to be punished too.
- macewan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2will rm or smil or mp3 run through the helix player?
I've found that mplayer is the best bet for playing media in the browser or totem/xine - Dren, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3# apt-get install w32codecs
Done. - redx666, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Yes in windows Realplayer is bloated, but in linux its lightweight, so whats with all the bloated comments? I for one am happy that the Realplayer is at least trying to make Linux more viable for the new comer, since Novell has Realplayer preinstalled this should be a sweet deal. Anytime Linux gets more articles in the news the more publicity it gets and the more people will hear about it, which is a good thing for all of us.
- jonesin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3No, it doesn't seem simple. Do you have any idea how much extra work it is to make .autopackage packages? There's a reason that they're so easy to install on everything, and that reason is that it takes far more expertise on the side of the packager to create them than a regular rpm or deb.
- Mejogid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1As has been said repeatedly in this discussion, the Helix Player is not branded, has a simple interface and is nothing like real player on windows. Although I don't use it much (since mplayer supports far more formats with win32 codecs installed), there's certainly nothing wrong with the player.
- muyuu, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1A DRM can perfectly be OS. Sun is working in an OS DRM system. It's not really necessary to resort to security through obscurity when there are strong public-key encryption schemes.
- ThankTheCheese, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2hold the phone...what's this Real Player you speak of?
;) - McNubbins, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I don't think people are excited about the Real Player itself, but the open source .WMA codecs that we'll get to toy with as a result.
Good news. - tgone, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2scheper,
You don't see the point in supporting Windows Media Files? The point is to support more media files thus making the application more useful... - trogdoor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I use Ubuntu on PPC. That means I can't play h.264, flash, and many other codecs. But the crappyness of proprietary components in Linux doesn't stop there. I also have no nvidea drivers, no google earth, no NDIS wrapper, THAT is why these "Linux zealots" don't like depending on proprietary components in Linux. It hinders distribution, slows progress and innovation ( see nvidea and ATI drivers not supporting AIGLX ). Binary blobs should rot and die. </rant>
- jonesin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Or you could just use PCLinuxOS, which already has the necessary mplayer codecs included in the operating system to play anything out of the box. You didn't know that?
- zerblat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I've never had any problem getting WMV to play. What distro are you using?
Anyway, I agree that this is great news. I know many people hate Real because they practically invented spyware, but I think they're a lot less evil than they used to be. They're the only mainstream video player that supports other platforms than Windows and Mac, and they seem to have gotten rid of all the annoying ads etc (at least on Linux).
Anyway, the future is open, patent-free formats such as Ogg Theora and Dirac. But until they become dominant, it's nice to be able to play mainstream videos legally. - stian, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@KWhat..
You are both right and wrong.. Mplayer currently uses win32codecs to play wmv9, however, this was fixed during Google's summer of code where a guy named Shishkov implemented a open source codec for vc-1 (wmv9) in FFmpeg.. The code is currently in their SVN, and actually works great..
You also couldn't use win32codecs on other platforms than intel (like powerpc), now you can with the new vc-1 support in ffmpeg :)
Next build of mplayer will include it i bet.. or you can download it and build it yourself (or se my post below for mac builds..) - willcode4beer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1CNN can be done with the (newer) Linux player (if you have an account) but, it requires some trickery that is really more of a pain than its worth.
- basselope, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It's a step in the right direction. We can find a way around just about problem that might occur.. but not always on the up-and-up. this helps bring a little more legitimacy to table and could well help some of the stablity, compatability and ease-of-use issues we've all run into before. It's just one more item to add to the list of things that make Linux appealing.
Although, did you notice
"... Jeff Duchmann, general manager of client and digital rights management technologies at RealNetworks. "
Duckman?!? That can't be good. -
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