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Ready for a new K: an inside look at KDE 4.0

rackit.gartnerwebdev.com — A brand new interview with Wade Olson, KDE's North American contact about the soon-to-be-released KDE 4.0, the benefits of FLOSS development, and more.

Who dugg this? Made popular Aug 30, 2007

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  • xShad0w, on 10/10/2007, -8/+37no pictures of the interface = no digg
  • therealfrankdux, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7A screenshot was added to the article: http://rackit.gartnerwebdev.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/xinerama-kde4-beta2.png
  • Ademan, on 10/10/2007, -1/+8I'm not going to feed the troll, aside from saying, let people choose what they want, plenty of people think KDE looks like crap because of the crappy default icons, the general lack of a GOOD Qt theme, and the cluttered interfaces.

    On the other hand, some people don't like gnome because they feel it over simplifies things, is bland (i don't get that one, i call it "uniform" but to each his own), and its general lack of customization options (especially concerning metacity)

    The moral of the story is let everyone choose what they want (it is preference after all), and you're the only nuthugger around here.
  • happenchance, on 10/10/2007, -1/+7Sorry, but it doesn't look very polished to me at all... I'm not a heavy Linux user by any stretch of the imagination, but there doesn't seem to be any clear division between each of the elements in a window (take a look at the screenshot further down the page... that file management window is an abomination, really cluttered and confusing). Coming from Windows and OSX (my primary OS environments) I personally think Gnome and XFCE look far more professional, polished and simple to use.
  • KAMiKAZOW, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6Does GNOME look better than Vista? If yes, which one? Default GNOME? Fedora's GNOME? SUSE's GNOME? Ubuntu's GNOME?

    How GNOME and KDE look depends on the used theme. If you use the same theme for both, you even get way better consistency than under Windows. Just look at MS's software: Office 2007, Media Player 11, Zune Software, and WordPad. MS throws an ugly theme "mish-mash" at its users.
  • fires, on 10/10/2007, -0/+6Best quote of the article (IMHO):

    "Can you believe that Fords and Chevys can drive on the same roads and use the same gas? What a miracle of modern science that an AT&T user could call a Sprint user on the phone? A TGV and ICE train can ride on the same tracks? Madness! I can plug a lamp into the wall that my power company didn’t sell me? Now that’s what I call progress.

    Why would computing be any different? I can’t believe that some choose to write software for a large audience that isn’t cross platform, browser-based or interoperable - but some do."
  • KAMiKAZOW, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5KDE 4 depends on Qt 4, not X11. Qt in turn may depend on X11 on certain plattforms, but there are also plattforms where Qt runs without X11.
  • inactive, on 10/10/2007, -2/+7A GUI on a server is just a waste in my opinion, and in the event that someone who was not comfortable with the CLI was running on their own server, something lightweight such as XFCE would probably be a better choice for a server than Gnome.
  • Cybrwolf, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4The absolute best part of the new KDE is the supported view mode "column" view! Now when using Kubuntu I won't feel like I've given up something when compared with Mac OS X!
  • dualscreenman, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4http://websvn.kde.org/trunk/KDE/kdebase/runtime/pics/oxygen/
    Not exactly pics of the environment, put pics of KDE 4 hotness just the same.
  • grepgav, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Yeah overall I am just not impressed by Kopete so I end up using gAim(Pidgin) anyways.
  • kaniz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Vista is ugly as sin. My partner just got a new computer with Vista pre-installed. The first boot was an attack of ugly popups, notices, trial software and clutter.
    About the only nice eye-candy Vista has is the 3D app-switcher.

    The UI is ugly and clunky - vista is crap IMO. If I was to stick with Windows, I'd be using XP.

    Toss in the fact that MS seems to be using a new UI/theme for every new version of software they put out (Media Player? ugly) - and its just not an enjoyable consistent user experience anymore.

  • subliminalurge, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3If it's a "fact", then there is really no room to be skeptical about it.
  • cesclaveria, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3There has always been a Kubuntu release alog each Ubuntu release, in the end they are the same, just one ships with KDE as default the other with Gnome, I don't think that will change anytime soon.
  • Stonekeeper, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3The best thing about that was finding out about klik2... oh and the oxygen icons are really nice :)
  • KAMiKAZOW, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Today's servers (I mean machines sold as servers, not old PCs that "re-purposed" into a file/print server at home) are really powerfull. A GUI doesn't hurt the overall performance in a significant way. If the GUI is not used, it gets swapped into virtual memory after a while.
  • WorldRTomi, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3kde is not an OS.

    ugly or not it all depends of your theme choices...
  • starsky51, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3As any decent woodwork teacher will tell you, the polish goes on last.
  • LondonDude, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2There is no doubt that KDE4 looks nice but you couldn't really describe this as a "Look Inside" could you? There was nothing much to look at besides the article!
  • inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Heh, funny typo on my part. Time to go for a jog on top of my Debian box. ;)
  • aaronm67, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I do use a different program, but it would nice to have the integration that Kopete has.
    Kopete has a lot going for it...they just need to fix a few annoying things. I use Pidgin like the person below me, but it would be nice to be able to use Kopete.
  • jdhore1, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I agree...Kopete is very feature-lacking, and for KDE4, i think there are only small improvements (mainly graphical improvements), but everytime i try to use Pidgin i just don't like the way it does some stuff so i'll happily deal with the awesomeness of Kopete and not having a cool AIM profile...Also, i see no bugs in it other than occasional crashing.
  • KAMiKAZOW, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2The new Oxygen theme isn't even finished.
  • happenchance, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Sure, i understand that concept... but what's the direction KDE is going in? I've never seen an example or mockup of what this new-look KDE is going to eventually look like? Has anyone?
    Also, I've also though the same about the current KDE btw... that it looks half-finished and clumsy.
  • DoomMusic, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Agreed. But you could just use a different program... Plenty of AIM clients for KDE.
  • enterneo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1I am skeptic of the fact, that ubuntu may adopt KDE as default DE after KDE4 release :-|
  • Neiby, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Why would you add yourself to your buddy list?
  • aaronm67, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Mostly because I use a lot of IM clients (Kopete/Gaim on my computer, Meebo/AIM at work, ichat if I'm using my girlfriend's computer, etc) and sometimes I change my info to something on one of them, and its annoying to have an info like "I'm At Work" because I changed it while I was at work.
    It's nice to be able to right click your name and see what your info says (especially on Kopete where you can't even set your info)
  • aaronm67, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Well, I guess the main bug I was talking about was the fact that if you have yourself added on your buddy list (which is very common on AIM, and nearly every other client allows it) you get an error message every time you log in.
  • fires, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1What file manager?
    The one in this picture:

    http://rackit.gartnerwebdev.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/08/xinerama-kde4-beta2.png

    It's called 'dolphin' and is the new file manager for KDE 4, and as far as I can tell, it looks alot like Nautilus which is the default file manager for GNOME.
  • jadrian, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Easy people, it's just the first Beta. And even when it's ready it's just 4.0.0. It's purpose it mostly to deliver the new foundation on which the 4.x series will be built. It's very promising as is!
  • nxtwrld, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1well on linux (KDE/Gnome) with Beryl or Compiz Fusion it's the USER that is considered the art director of it's OS. So what kind of look you give it, what kind of effects you setup and how you tweak their settings is up to him. I guess it's a matter of preference - OSX is cool and nice, yet to uniform for me. I like to have it setup the system in unique way, that suits me.

    Regarding Wobbly windows - when I first saw it, I thought it must be obtrusive as hell and that I would never use it. But now I must say, that it's a back ported functionality from real life - when you take a paper a move to somewhere, it also does not stay rock solid, but sort of wobbles in the direction of the movement. I got so used to it, that it now seems weirdly rigid when dragging windows on my XP at work....
  • counterplex, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1As a full-time Linux user who has used Gnome and KDE heavily, I'll say this about KDE - it is one nicely integrated package.
    I've always found Gnome to be a nice clean looking environment with applications that similarly look clean and easy to use. The end result is a collection of applications that are a pleasure to use. KDE, however, tends to have cluttered toolbars, not a lot of polish but all applications live and breathe as one. If I'm using KMail, my calendar is available right there as is my addressbook. The same calendar and addressbook (or mail client for that matter) is integrated everywhere else that it needs to be. The end result feels more like OSX in concept but without the polish. I typically forego the polish for the functionality figuring, like starsky51, that the polish will come eventually.
  • Speed, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1No, but my god man, it's obvious doublesh0t was referring to the movie. "Scum of the Universe" was what the Men in Black fought, K was the character played by Tommy Lee Jones. Sorry but good movie with good actor trumps crappy cereal.
  • Neiby, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1I agree. I much prefer Kopete to Pidgin.
  • Speed, on 10/10/2007, -2/+2Miss the Men in Black reference?
  • buggu, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0KDE4 is STILL under heavy development. It cannot be stressed enough but people always make their judgment based on a few screenshots. New things are added/removed/modified daily. The important thing to remember is that KDE4 is finally adopting a HIG that takes into account usability and accessibility. During the last akademy, the lead developer gave a great presentation on what was wrong with KDE's design and they are already rectifying the interface based on those suggestions (for example, in the screenshots it is already evident that they have switched to using a toolbar with a few descriptive icons and text by default). So, remember that before judging it finally. As for your question of screenshots, I asked the lead developer of Oxygen theme design and he explained that the reason that few screenshots are being released is because the interface has not been finalized and that people will get a wrong impression of it.
  • gmgartner, on 10/10/2007, -0/+0The consistency of the reflection and drop shadow across hundreds of icons spoke volumes to the "lack" of cohesiveness.
  • Giga, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Miss the cereal reference?
  • Giga, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0"The first boot was an attack of ugly popups, notices, trial software and clutter."

    That's not a Vista issue. That's a 'new computer built by a company such as HP' (for example) issue.
  • inactive, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1Does it look better than Vista? If not, then how are they going to get people to switch? Visual images are the first thing people notice when they use a new operating system. And who wants to be staring at an ugly os?
  • gmgartner, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1Do this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfbqYkFWFMA with Vista Areo
  • geminitojanus, on 10/10/2007, -4/+1Special K?
  • gmgartner, on 10/10/2007, -4/+0Do this with OSX (maybe) or Vista Aero http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lfbqYkFWFMA . Who's UGLY?
  • morphie, on 10/10/2007, -5/+1No, it depends on the graphical backend behind it. OS X is by far the only one who has been able to ditch old habits and create Quartz (Extreme). KDE4 still depends on the old and bloated-with-legacy-code XServer. :)
  • aaronm67, on 10/10/2007, -8/+3I hope in KDE4 Kopete gets better for the Aim protocol. The way it exists right now, there isn't any way to set your AIM profile, and there are several bugs with AIM buddy lists also that are pretty annoying.
  • antitab, on 10/10/2007, -6/+1Cute troll is cute.
    OS X has been capable of that since version 10.0, Apple has just opted to forego frivolous, useless eyecandy. Unfortunately, FOSS lacks the sort of art direction that went into Aqua, so you wind up with ***** like ZOMG WOBBLY WINDOZ.
  • EclipseAgent, on 10/10/2007, -13/+7Glad to see KDE doing a major change.. Something Gnome will never do again (sorry you Gnome nuthuggers, it is good on servers, since it is so plain).

    You can say KDE has bloat, but you can minimize what it has.. That is your decision.
  • FatShady, on 10/10/2007, -9/+3Why is it still ugly? I mean seriously. It's *STILL* ugly. Have these people not seen OSX? Or Vista?
  • spyd3rweb, on 10/10/2007, -12/+3no matter how you look at it kludge and bloat always looks the same.

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