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101 Comments
- Nephersir7, on 04/18/2009, -1/+20I still think keeping a computer (or almost anything else) for longer ends up being greener than buying a new one because it may use energy, but the manufacturing process/power and physical waste needed for making a new one are way greater.
- hbyrne, on 04/18/2009, -2/+21Great that you can use hardware longer, eliminating ewaste & landfill requirements. But at the same time, older hardware is often based off designs that weren't as sensitive to power use, and are therefore less energy efficient.
- acemilo, on 04/19/2009, -7/+24I'm sorry but I disagree. About 3 months ago I switch to ubuntu linux full time after dabling here and there in linux on secondary pc's for years and trying to switch about a year ago. Once I finally made the full switch I haven't been happier. If you are a full time windows user then linux is a shock. Coming off mac os it would be a lot easier transition, but still a transition, but windows is definitely more of a shock. The more you use it the more sense it makes and the easier it is to do things and get things done, but at first it does make less sense when coming off windows. I'm not going to sit here and preach about how linux is better and list reasons and all that, it's been done before, but honestly once you know the terminal its a ton more efficient than gui and since linux really is more powerful than windows, you can get things done a lot faster. I'm sure I'm more efficient now in linux than I ever was in windows, but yes it took some time. Once more people take the plunge they will realise just how amazing linux really is.
- sigmaman2, on 04/19/2009, -2/+18Well, I agree with you that it is debatable. I certainly disagree that it takes 2-3 times to do something on Linux. I use both XP and Ubuntu daily. Neither has an advantage with steps needed to complete a task.
But one HUGE drawback that Windows has is the need for antivirus/anti-malware software. Running Windows without antivirus software runs the risk of having your system compromised. So, pretty much every Windows system needs it. Linux systems don't need it anywhere nearly as much.
And when you run antivirus software on your system, you are pretty much running a full, active database on your system while you are doing your other work. Any file that gets accessed will get scanned for viruses first, instead of just plain accessed. That takes extra time. That takes extra CPU cycles. That takes extra energy. - LordBacon, on 04/19/2009, -3/+16Wtf is wrong with the people above me ?
Lower consumption = cost saving .. no ? - clarious, on 04/19/2009, -0/+11Yes, consuming less computing power = longer battery life for laptop, and the machine also lives longer. I have to pay less for my electricity bill too.
And I can do some mental masturbation that I have saved the world for the future generation. - grapesofbaath, on 04/19/2009, -0/+10Newer computers used much more energy efficient power supplies, with over 80% efficiency (the rest lost as heat). Also, just because a power supply is rated at 400 watts doesn't mean it is always using 400 watts. Yes, it it will inherently waste slightly more, but if it's using a newer energy efficient processor it will come out ahead.
- inactive, on 04/19/2009, -1/+10Increasing battery life under Linux:
1. Use kernel with dynamic ticks
2. Ensure ACPI is enabled
3. Use CPU power saving
4. Blank screen when idle
5. Use PowerTOP
http://www.linlap.com/wiki/Increasing+battery+life ... - Khast, on 04/19/2009, -2/+11Hmm, maybe that could be turned around as well... I mean every ***** article about Windows 7 gets rave reviews as well.
Hell, MacOSX tends to cause the same kinds of *****.
We Commodore users shut the ***** up long ago. :P - andycr512, on 04/19/2009, -0/+8ACPI in Linux is fine. ACPI is broken in many laptop hardware designs. Windows ACPI is broken. The hardware is equally broken to accommodate legacy versions of Windows. This was done quite deliberately by Microsoft.
My laptop actually does a decent job adhering to the ACPI standards - yes, what a thought, standards! - and sleeps and wakes perfectly under Linux. Go figure.
That said, ACPI as a whole is a complete mess, but that's another story. - superkendall, on 04/19/2009, -3/+11I'm still using a seven year old Powerbook. It runs OS X just fine. How is that not just as green?
I also know people still using G4 desktops...
Good hardware is good hardware, it lasts a long time and you can keep working. That's true of Macs or PC's. - flibblesan, on 04/19/2009, -0/+7I run a brown operating system called Ubuntu
- nullity, on 04/19/2009, -0/+7Yeah! ***** your children! And ***** your children's children!
Who cares if the the world is uninhabitable by humans in 50 years?
We won't be around to see it anyway, since we're all dying of cancer.
Short-sighted elfishness for the win! - beers, on 04/19/2009, -2/+8even if the older computers are less energy efficient, they still use a lot less energy than newer computers. Today's desktop consists of a power supply that is greater than 400W where older computers typically have smaller power supplies 300W.
- ChromaVita, on 04/19/2009, -4/+10I completely agree. One of the worst offenders I've seen is this Walmart ad for a Bissel steam cleaner. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=93cRqNv-x7M The commercial says it's made from 50% recycled plastic bags, and that if everyone of Walmart customers went out and bought one, it would be like recycling 2,000,000 bags of trash.
NO IT WOULDN'T. Everybody going out and buying a brand new steam cleaner doesn't do anything to reduce the ammount of waste in landfills! It's going to Increase the amount of waste in landfills as soon as your steam cleaner stops working, not to mention if you had an older similar product that you're replacing this with. Also due to the fact that 50% of the vacuum is made of non recycled materials, it's like dumping the original 2,000,000 bags of trash in the dump, and then dumping an extra 2,000,000 bags on top of that for the un-recycled materials.
Apple is guilty of this too. Saying that it's the greenest line of notebooks out there, and making it seem like everyone should do their part and go buy a new apple computer. The batteries may last longer, and they may be more efficient, but how long are you going to have to use that laptop before it becomes worth it? You'll buy an even newer laptop before then. If I have to buy a new computer, sure I'll take efficiency into consideration, but don't make it seem like I should go out and buy a new laptop and act like I'm doing the world a big ***** favor.
The Idea that we can conserve by consuming MORE is absolutely ridiculous. Conserving takes minimal effort, but you aren't going to achieve it by just buying some extra products touted as "green". There are things you can buy such as low-flow wattage monitors, shower heads, and faucet aerators that will do a lot to help conserve water and energy, but don't expect to just go green with a few products from companies that spend more on advertising their "green-ness" than they do actually trying to solve the problem.
***** greenwashing. - nabe, on 04/19/2009, -0/+5Also cleaner environment = better quality of life. Better water, better air, better food...
It's called "I feel impotent about these "green problems" so I better ignore them or think they are *****, so I don't feel guilty for being part of the problem and doing nothing about it". - phyx726, on 04/19/2009, -1/+6Or just buy a low watt cpu
- KibibyteBrain, on 04/19/2009, -0/+4Still, those are peak values. Older machines tend to draw less power at load but draw more at idle. And most workstations and servers I work with at least spend most of their on time at idle/on the lowest clock speed the CPU supports.
Also, much of it is marketing too. Its hard to find a low rated power supply these days. They can just add an extra cheap 12V rail to put a bigger rating on it for almost free, even though its really supplying any more "useful" power. So you might _have_ to buy a 500 W PSU even if your rig only draws 350W at load because of this marketing BS - pika2000, on 04/19/2009, -2/+6Not all Linux are "green." He's just comparing server OSes. You have to use the right distro. Just look at Ubuntu. The default Live CD install actually has higher system requirement than win2k/XP. Can I say MS-DOS is greener then?
- nikhil760, on 04/19/2009, -0/+4For those who hate the 'scam', there is another way to look at it :
Linux is the greenest OS because, my pocket stays green while I'm using it. - Radan, on 04/19/2009, -0/+4Well, they do actually make servers and we have two of them running where I work, but of course it's nothing compared to the amount of Linux servers there are out there.
- Foofoofoofoobar, on 04/19/2009, -2/+6Just a slight quibble, Apple isn't a player in the server market at all.
- delecti, on 04/19/2009, -8/+11I get better battery life on my laptop with Windows 7 installed with Aero enabled than I did with Ubuntu 8.10 installed with Gnome running on the same laptop.
Based on my experience, Linux isn't as green. - pHr34kY, on 04/19/2009, -0/+3Yo dawg! We herd yo like articles, so we wrote an article on an article so you can read while you read!
- someguy92, on 04/19/2009, -4/+7Blogspam...
Original article on one page: http://www.zdnet.co.uk/misc/print/0,1000000169,396 ... - MacEnvy, on 04/19/2009, -0/+3XServes are actually a pretty good deal for small IT shops, considering they give you a server OS with unlimited client licenses along with the hardware. It's not for everyone, but I've played a bit with Leopard Server (and I'm taking the cert for it in a few weeks) and it's both solid and powerful, as well as easy to use.
- judicar, on 04/19/2009, -5/+8Web 2.0, Cloud Computing, Green Computing, Social Networking ... it's just marketers repackaging vague, long standing concepts and pretending they've created something new to bilk clueless venture capitalist for more money.
- GavinZac, on 04/19/2009, -0/+3To misquote Maddox...
- inactive, on 04/19/2009, -1/+4Is someone forcing you to read the Linux articles?
If you don't like Linux, just bury any Linux submissions and move on. - nullity, on 04/19/2009, -0/+3Yeah, goddamn treehuggers.
Like that Stephen Hawking guy: http://www.commondreams.org/headlines07/0121-04.ht ...
What the heck does he know anyway? - mithrasinvictus, on 04/19/2009, -0/+3No, people upgrade their PC to get more performance because new software requires it. An OS that uses less resources for itself will made hardware last longer.
- nullity, on 04/19/2009, -0/+3LOL at myself.
elfishness = selfishness - Killer_Manbeast, on 04/20/2009, -0/+2Brown? Isn't Ubuntu an Orange operating system?
- SwabTheDeck, on 04/19/2009, -0/+2It's not necessarily that Linux is bad with power management, it's that there aren't good power management drivers available for every model motherboard that people use with Linux. There is a long history if computers simply not falling asleep, or if they do manage to fall asleep, they get locked up and then the user just disables the power saving features to avoid lock ups. Not every motherboard is like this, but there are still enough where it's annoying. I don't believe Linux is significantly better or worse than other OSes for power savings if you're running a computer that has good power drivers. Since laptops have become incredibly popular in the last few years, every OS and hardware company have been doing everything they can to squeeze more battery life into their machines. This isn't necessarily to be "green" (though that's incidental) but it's a good selling point if your laptop can last an hour or two longer than the next guy's.
- monkeyrun, on 04/19/2009, -2/+4I know ... in a VM right ;)
- inactive, on 04/20/2009, -0/+2Digg has its share of redneck dicks...
- zmigliozzi, on 04/19/2009, -0/+2Greenest OS does nothing when you are running a 1kW power supply.
- Killer_Manbeast, on 04/20/2009, -0/+2Yes you can retard.
And as I said in another comment "Exactly `A PSU only draws as much power as the PC asks.` Windows and Mac both `ask` for a consistently higher amount of power, at any given time." - angrynorwegian, on 04/19/2009, -20/+22People are still following this "green" BS?
- BrownieMix, on 04/19/2009, -6/+8That's great, but I really wish they would focus on having Linux consuming less battery life on laptops.
- bugwayji, on 04/19/2009, -0/+2 Linux is very robust...want to do video editing and save in whatever format, no problem. I have had lots of people watch me use it, and say "I wish mine could do that"...Windows is the K car of OS's. Mac is for ''those people'', Linux is for those who know
- Killer_Manbeast, on 04/20/2009, -0/+2Well Digg is running Apache, I know Kevin sure as hell wouldn't run the Digg servers on Windows, and the Mac Apache isn't quite ready for a website like Digg, it's also a pain in the ass to setup. So Digg is most likely using GNU/Linux. And the same for Google and YouTube, which are the most popular and stable websites to date. Coincidence?
- thisthatwhat, on 04/19/2009, -0/+2Consumer wise this doesn't work. Consumer's still need/want the latest hardware w/ the largest capacity and the fastest memory for day to day tasks (and yes, games!).
His argument is leaning towards longevity of servers and enterprise machines that users will never touch. The brief mention of the netbook is incorrect as well as newer netbooks are always coming out with more power and capabilities. Originally netbooks came w/ SSD of about 8GB. You think that'll be acceptable 4 years from now? SSD are already in the range of 256GB and more. In a year or two they'll become mainstream and affordable. A 8GB SD card / USB drive is not even acceptable anymore! - chongli, on 04/19/2009, -0/+1Linux, OpenSolaris and FreeBSD are all server OSes with unlimited client licenses for free.
- pHr34kY, on 04/19/2009, -0/+1A PSU only draws as much power as the PC asks. It's actually more efficient to get a top-end power supply and only run it at half load.
I had a 'low power' 300w PSU once. It generated so much heat that I had to turn the air conditioner up. Replaced it with a 550w and all was well. - Killer_Manbeast, on 04/20/2009, -0/+1Exactly "A PSU only draws as much power as the PC asks." Windows and Mac both "ask" for a consistently higher amount of power, at any given time.
"And comparing apples to oranges, blah blah blah." Exactly, GNU/Linux compared to Window/Mac leaves GNU/Linux faster, secure, energy efficient, and environmentally friendly, thus superior. And they cannot be compared. GNU/Linux always wins. - FreeBooteR69, on 04/21/2009, -0/+1I love the panic attack windows users have every time there is a GNU/Linux post. Must be those MCSE types who know they are screwed if the GNU takes over the desktop. The piece of paper they paid so much for will be obsolete. Though the paid MS shills love it, more trolls = more pennies for them. It's better than fighting bums over dumpsters i guess.
- thisthatwhat, on 04/19/2009, -0/+1I've been working with video a lot. Yes, most of these tools are on Linux and Open Source too. :)
But you do know that all these tools have been compiled for Windows as well don't you? Most of these Open Source projects come with a VS project to do it yourself if you can't find the appropriate binaries. Ok, some of these tools you may need to be run from cygwin and lack intuitiveness but with a little bit of persistence it's not too difficult to get those open source tools to run in Windows. - wbkang, on 04/20/2009, -0/+1"It's not necessarily that Linux is bad with power management, "
Most hardware drivers are in Linux kernel source tree. Why the hell are people burying me? - Killer_Manbeast, on 04/20/2009, -0/+1And, that's why I'm melting. And your children will be melting. And the PC's and Macs you love so much will be melting. No, no, go right ahead, and make the hardware/software better and better, using more and more resources, it will eventually just add to the longevity of the Earth's final Ice Age.
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