What is Digg?318 Comments
- nosklo, on 07/18/2008, -15/+129It is a great campaign. Ogg format using vorbis encoding is great! Sound is better, with file size smaller.
- alexp2ad, on 07/19/2008, -7/+118Wow, a site based around the idea of freedom is telling me my first step to freedom is to give them my e-mail address with no hint or suggestion of what they plan to use it for...
- dansai, on 07/19/2008, -4/+115Ogg is cool, but let's me honest here... The average music listener does not even consider that an audio file could ever be anything other than MP3. I even have trouble convincing people what an M4A file is!
- Bjwebb, on 07/18/2008, -6/+103Yeah, ogg is good, I just wish there were more cheap portable ogg players...
- zzz@tkz, on 07/19/2008, -4/+82This is useless. As great as open source stuff is, the MP3 isn't going to die anytime soon. It's too mainstream. The only way that it will die out is if there is a DRASTICALLY better compression with higher quality. Like, we're talking in the sub-1MB per song category. Even then, the transition would be a slow, painful one, and a majority of users would still use the MP3.
- lamouze, on 07/19/2008, -2/+64MP3 has variable bit rate too.
- thrikulam, on 07/19/2008, -5/+65chocolate reine
- pvdg, on 07/19/2008, -11/+67... and most important, it's an open format!
- purelithium, on 07/19/2008, -6/+60Until there is an OGG player that is as ubiquitous as the iPod, I'm going to stick to my melange of mp3's and m4a's. I understand the goals and the benefits of OGG, but it can't replace my music library yet. I need my music on the go.
- thecosmicpope, on 07/19/2008, -5/+52With iPods and other MP3 Players beginning to break the 100Gb mark, and HDDs now into the area where they are measured in Terrabytes, file size is no longer an issue.
The problem OGG faces is MP3s are perfect for most people. Only a relatively small amount of people can tell the different in a high quality MP3 and an OGG. And of course with the storage space becoming less of an issue, MP3s can be encoded in the highest quality without a problem now.
It isn't good enough to be better than MP3. MP3 is the popular format, and to beat that you need to offer a significant advantage. - SoundJudgment, on 07/19/2008, -8/+51A fringe-group advocating more use of .the OGG compression format?? Welcome to 2002.
The 'campaign' didn't work back then, either. ;) - reined, on 07/18/2008, -21/+62it's better compression, better quality than mpthree, have a nicer name and have VariableBitRate!. C'mon, don't be one of those Morons!. With Love, Reine.
- conversekid, on 07/19/2008, -20/+55***** .ogg.
FLAC *****, DO YOU USE IT?!?!?!! - Karmavs, on 07/19/2008, -0/+31Because people still don’t know what an MP3 is. Its a catch all for digital music. And for digital music players. (except for iPods; since they have brand recognition)
- sirmasterboy, on 07/19/2008, -1/+31That would be transcoding and is just about the worst thing you can possibly do to your audio. MP3 is low enough quality already, it would sound like crap after the transcode to OGG.
- LocoMan, on 07/19/2008, -3/+29@Audacitor
I can already do the first one with MP3s. Windows and Mac already support MP3 out of the box, and ubuntu (that's the linux I use) support it automatically within a couple of minutes of trying to play the first MP3 after install. Also (this is the deal breaker for me), my living room stereo, car stereo, DVD player, cell phone and cheap portable player all play MP3s, none of them play ogg.
About the second one, it's just something most people just won't encounter. Developers are a huge minority, and from the regular people's point of view they can already get lots of programs that will read AND write MP3s for free on the net, if it wasn't bundled with their computers to begin with.
I like Ogg... but honestly don't think it'll gain much market penetration mainly because it doesn't offer any advantage to plain old MP3s from the general people's point of view. Heck, I really like ogg... but I keep my music collection in MP3 just because it's more practical, all my computers can play ogg, but every other music related stuff I own can only play MP3s, so that's what I use for my music for the time being. - jockser, on 07/19/2008, -2/+22If there were more people like you, we would all still be using IE6...
- derekcannon, on 07/19/2008, -4/+2410-ish years ago the masses didn't know what MP3 was. Would you not agree that in 10 years or less, people could also understand and embrace OGG?
- richardhenry, on 07/19/2008, -6/+25Excellent post by John Gruber on the matter of Ogg Vorbis: http://daringfireball.net/linked/2008/07/18/aac-og ...
- sirmasterboy, on 07/19/2008, -5/+24As much as I would like to use the open standards, it's FLAC for the master copy on my PC and VBR AAC for the compressed copy on my iPhone.
- Snakedal337, on 07/19/2008, -4/+22FSF is a pretty well known website, but i'm not going to argue your point :)
- bieber, on 07/19/2008, -0/+18I've been playing my ogg files on my iPod with Rockbox for a while now. Adds all the functionality Apple deliberately left out ;)
- lolinyerface, on 07/19/2008, -2/+19@GMorgan
Patents? Run out? This is America...we'll be dead before things like that occur. - sark666, on 07/19/2008, -0/+17I'm all for open formats but let's be thankful that the defacto standard (mp3) is not drm encumbered. Believe me, the big wigs wish mp3 would die.
Is mp3 technically inferior to ogg? yes, it's technically enferior to most/all formats, but for most it's good enough and for the most part free.
You might say mp3 is not free due to patents, but you might not realize mp3's patents expire i believe it's 2010 or 11. MIght seem like a ways off, but it'll be here sooner than you think. Then any device/OS can offer mp3 out of the box without any issues. I'm sorry, I'm just not going to start encoding in ogg when too much hardware I have only supports mp3. If more devices support ogg, I'll be the first to switch. - Karmavs, on 07/19/2008, -0/+17and lose any benefit in doing so…
No thanks. - Rocco03, on 07/19/2008, -0/+17Or wait 9 years until the mp3 patents expire.
- saisumimen, on 07/19/2008, -1/+17You're right. They should change the name to "MP3000". The masses will understand.
- inactive, on 07/19/2008, -5/+20There is a practical reason why few portable players support Vorbis - it requires significantly more processor power to decode than other formats, thus both increasing the cost of the device and reducing the battery life. It's the same reason the iPod doesn't use FLAC - Apple Lossless is designed specifically to be easy to decode.
Sure it's not as much of a consideration now, but there's momentum against it. I have an old iPod that I put Rockbox on - the CPU just couldn't keep up with decoding Vorbis. The video iPods can probably do it without a problem though. - BurgerPunch, on 07/19/2008, -5/+20Name is worse, sounds like a disease
- gsnedders, on 07/19/2008, -0/+14It isn't adopted? Microsoft shipping it with every single copy of Halo isn't adoption? Loads of companies ship it with Unreal Engine 2.5 and 3.0. Have none of those games ever sold well?
If there were any patents covering Vorbis, someone would've been sued by now. Ogg and Theora are unknown, though (some people claiming there are patents covering them, some people claiming there aren't). - DigitAl56K, on 07/19/2008, -2/+16FLAC is great, but it's not really suitable for devices with only a few gigs of storage.
- Failchan, on 07/19/2008, -9/+23OGC
- yertthedigger, on 07/19/2008, -4/+18Screw being tied down to OGG. I don't use Lossy formats if I can avoid them. Lossless is better. You aren't even tied to the format.
- subbzzz, on 07/19/2008, -3/+16Sansa Clip supports OGG Vorbis after a firmware upgrade. That player is pretty decent too! (Sound quality rocks).
I wish more manufacturers add OGG support for their players. - chicaneuk, on 07/19/2008, -12/+25> Are you fed up with seeing new gadgets that only use incompatible and restrictive audio and video formats?
Nope? MP3 works great thanks. - AlienMushroom, on 07/19/2008, -8/+21I find nothing wrong with mp3.
- trogdoor, on 07/19/2008, -0/+13@Audacitor
That second point is why many commercial games use ogg vorbis but most consumers have already paid the license fees for mp3 weather they realize it or not. The only way you could have an advantage is if for instance portable devices were cheaper because they didn't have to license proprietary codecs but an mp3 player that doesn't play mp3's isn't going to happen any time soon, there's just too much market penetration :( - cleansoap, on 07/19/2008, -2/+14The ***** format is VORBIS.
OGG is the CONTAINER. - JimmyIkon, on 07/19/2008, -5/+17"Are you fed up with seeing new gadgets that only use incompatible and restrictive audio and video formats?" No.
- theOster, on 07/19/2008, -0/+12and that sig advantage is only going to come from hardware manufacturers. without a portable device, ogg is kinda dead (even though i just re-ripped my entire cd collection to ogg about a year ago)
- sark666, on 07/19/2008, -0/+12decoding expires in 2011. So all hardware/OS's will be able to offer decoding without issue. I believe encoding is a little longer, like 2015.
- cleansoap, on 07/19/2008, -3/+15Your ABX results?
Face it, carefully conducted listening tests do not bear out a clear victory for Vorbis over LAME MP3. - theOster, on 07/19/2008, -2/+14what?
- Ellipsys, on 07/19/2008, -4/+16I have to admit, I'd love to see free and open source formats like OGG and FLAC applied to media players by default - I have more FLAC than OGG, and it annoys me that iPods and the like do not support these formats in addition to MP3 and AAC. Honestly, it doesn't cost them anything to add them - there are no licensing fees and so forth.
- CRCulver, on 07/19/2008, -2/+13I travel a lot, and when I'm in a new place and meet new people, I often propose trading music. My collection is all FLAC. I'm still amazed that a lot of people I encounter do in fact know that lossless file formats exist.
- inactive, on 07/19/2008, -0/+11Vorbis?
Ogg is the name of the container format, not the audio codec. (sort of like WMA vs. AVI) e.g. you can have an Ogg file with a FLAC audio stream. - therooker, on 07/19/2008, -9/+20Something that seems to be necessary (at least where I live) is to go into computer-stores every once in a while and ask them for players that support ogg/vorbis. Currently, most of the people working there haven't even heard of it! What a shame. (they should do their homework) - Even if you don't buy one: Ask for one!
- DigitAl56K, on 07/19/2008, -1/+12LAME is MP3 ;)
http://lame.sourceforge.net/index.php - wisam, on 07/19/2008, -0/+11COWON has a lot of great portable media players that play Ogg.
If you need a PMP, go for the A3
http://www.cowonamerica.com/products/cowon/a3
If you just need a music player, go for iAudio 6.
http://www.cowonamerica.com/products/iaudio/6 - cyssero, on 04/18/2009, -0/+11I agree, there needs to be a drastic improvement for people to switch from MP3s. But when we've got 160GB portable media players, the thought of a 1MB song versus a 6MB song is less appealing. As storage mediums keep increasing there will be even less incentive to switch from MP3 even if something is *that* much better. For a while at least, MP3s won't be going anywhere.
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