Digg

Discover the best of the web!
Learn more about Digg by taking the tour.

OSS Silverlight implementation Moonlight shines bright

arstechnica.com — At LugRadio Live this past weekend, Novell developer Miguel de Icaza discussed Moonlight, an open source implementation of Microsoft's Silverlight web plugin as well as what it's like working with Microsoft and Moonlight use on the desktop.

Bury

SquareEnix 99 days ago

47 diggs
digg it

schestowitz, on 04/18/2008, -14/+8It's not a "bright" anything. It's a case against Linux and against Free software. Novell is just a Microsoft tool here, to be used against Adobe, the GPL and Linux all at the same time. http://boycottnovell.com/2008/04/17/novell-fights- ...
- superjan, on 04/18/2008, -4/+6So i guess your pc is free of Nvidia/ati drivers, flash and all video and audio codecs except theorea and ogg? Or are you against FOSS as well?
  - sq377, on 04/18/2008, -5/+4Nvidia and ATI do not have a track record of attacking Linux. Microsoft pushing it's technologies into Linux makes me nervous, as It should most people.
- kretik, on 04/18/2008, -1/+4Evangelizing again Roy?
- geoken, on 04/18/2008, -4/+2superjan, you're argument is invalid. He's not arguing against the installation of closed source software in all situations. If I dislike what IE did to web standards in the earlier this decade, does that mean I'm some open source zealot?
  
  MS has a track record of trying to introduce certain technologies to the web, then make their OS the exclusive tool to veiw/interact with those technologies. That's the objection to silverlight. It has nothing to do with being against all colsed source software.
- Stonekeeper, on 04/18/2008, -1/+3It's a trap!
sloppychris, on 04/18/2008, -5/+7Moonlight is open source. And competition with flash is a good thing.
- sq377, on 04/18/2008, -5/+7I agree competition is good, but don't confuse this as being open source.
  http://tirania.org/blog/archive/2008/Apr-17.html
  "The codecs that Microsoft will distribute for use with Moonlight are limited to use inside the browser. This will prevent Moonlight's standalone applications from playing back any vc-1, wmv, wma, mp3 content. "
  That is not open source.
  - stoanhart, on 04/18/2008, -2/+3You don't have to use those codecs: Moonlight can be compiled to use ffmpeg OR the MS provided codecs. Most distros will probably compile with ffmpeg.
    
    What they should really do is use ffmpeg by default, and then have Moonlight auto-download and install any codecs that ffmpeg doesn't include.
    - X-Istence, on 04/20/2008, -0/+2It will be the only way to play microsoft protected video's. So really you will be forced into using Microsoft's proprietary counter part, or be fine with a very much broken moonlight implementation.
superjan, on 04/18/2008, -4/+8From the article:

Despite being misunderstood by some and criticized in the open source community, Moonlight offers a much more open and rich web content solution than Flash. It is a versatile open source technology that has a lot to offer on the desktop and will help ensure that Linux users don't get locked out of Microsoft's next generation web technologies, which are already being adopted for high profile sites like the Library of Congress.

Don't you remember the times (like 2 years ago) you had to install special tools to get audio working with the binary flash? Is there any reason you believe this can't happen again? I don't like MS, but sites like boycot Novell, are hurting the OS community. At least Moonlight may force adobe to be more committed to Linux.

Besides, software patents don't exist in my country. So instead of punishing the whole world because you are afraid of some stupid US law, push your lawmakers to fix the American patent system, and let the rest of the world enjoy those decent mono and moonlight programs.
- geoken, on 04/18/2008, -1/+3moonlight will force adobe to be more commited to linux? How exactly is that going to work?
  
  Also, you complain about installing special tools to get audio working in flash, what about the fact that to get video working in silverlight/mono you need to be using a Novel product (or one of the otehr vendors that signed with MS). Flash will stream h.264, moonlight streams Microsoft video formats which are only licensed on distro's who have signed with them.
  
  Also, in terms of content, Silverlight offers nothing above and beyond Flash. And the point of moonlight isn't to keep linux from getting locked out of microsofts next gen web technologies. It's to give people have value cross platform compatability the green light to make silverlight projects, thereby allowing silverlight to gain traction. If silverlight has a significant foothold, moonlight will dissapear.
  - fejj, on 04/18/2008, -2/+1If Adobe doesn't commit more fully to Linux (e.g. open sourcing, improving, etc their offerings) then they will lose market share to Silverlight.
    
    If Moonlight did not exist, then Adobe would not feel pressure to improve the situation for Linux.
    
    Silverlight 1.0 might not really offer much of anything over Flash in terms of what the end-user sees, but XAML is far more open than Flash is currently. Also, with Silverlight 2.0, it will be possible to write Silverlight apps in any .NET language and Javascript. Flash currently only offers ActionScript (which is a sort of Javascript). This will be VERY attractive to web developers who want to implement more complicated applications for the web because currently writing applications in Javascript is just simply not scalable.
    
    Moonlight will never disappear. Everyone who says so makes the assumption that Moonlight will disappear only because IE for Unix disappeared, but there's a huge difference between IE for Unix from a decade ago and Moonlight for Linux: Moonlight is not a closed source port of Silverlight controlled by Microsoft - it is an Open Source/Free Software implementation of the *openly documented* Silverlight runtime.
    
    Compare that to Gnash, a reverse-engineered implementation of Flash (Flash's documentation cannot be used to implement an alternative runtime or you risk legal action).
  - geoken, on 04/20/2008, -0/+2If you were able to gaurantee that moonlight is totally free of patents and can therefore never be taken down by microsoft then you'd probably put some people at ease. Unfortunately, most people don't believe that it would be any harder for microsoft to kill moonlight through patent related attacks than it was for them to kill an app they directly developed.
    
    Also, I'm not sure what makes XAML more open than Actionscript? Do open source compilers even exist to compile XAML? There are various open source actionscript compilers, even the official compiler from adobe is open source.
    - katelin, on 04/24/2008, -0/+0Being that Microsoft is helping the Mono team to create Moonlight, they'd have some pretty shaky legal ground if they decided to attack Moonlight for infringing their patents in a court of law in the US. So no, not very likely to happen.
      
      Secondly, you do not compile XAML as it is just plain XML which is why I presume the person above is saying it is more open than Flash (note that he said more open than Flash, not ActionScript). Anyone can read the XAML files which also makes it more friendly to being indexed on the web by Google and such. You can't really index Flash content.
z0mbie2099, on 04/18/2008, -2/+6Community opportunity? Since when is a Microsoft product a community opportunity?
tripzero, on 04/18/2008, -1/+5moonlight is a cummunity project NOT a microsoft project. Furthermore, many technologies and tools that microsoft implements are opportunities. Of course, you can chose for yourself whether you use them or not, but the opportunity is there if you chose.

I'm a big Linux guy but I code in C# for my day job. I personally like the idea that Linux implements moonlight and other .NET technologies. It allows me to develop applications much easier than I could in c++ otherwise (and i really like c++).
- Remmy, on 04/18/2008, -1/+1I use C# in a work environment as well and see how it epitomizes RAD. My problem isn't with the technology, but the licensing surrounding them. I WANT these things to be available to me in Linux, I just don't want to have to worry about whose IP I am violating in the process and if I will or will not be litigated against for using it since I am not a customer/user of Novell which is currently the only user base that their deal protects when it comes to these technologies.
  
  The common misconception with GNU/Linux purists is that we don't want advancements. That's not true in the least. We just want to be able to use them without fear of consequences. I'll even go so far to say that Moonlight is a step ahead of Adobe's Air as it is open source. That however doesn't imply that it nor AIR are Free Software. The difference between the two are that you are entering in to an agreement with Adobe when you install AIR. When you install Mono/Moonlight and are not a Novell user/customer, you are circumventing the patent covenant that was made between Microsoft and Novell.
  
  http://www.mono-project.com/FAQ:_Licensing#Patents - It's important to read this to fully understand what people are talking about when they say that there are patent traps in Mono. Specifically, "The core of the .NET Framework, and what has been patented by Microsoft falls under the ECMA/ISO submission." Microsoft has so far allowed royalty free use of this, but could change their mind at any time. That's the concern.
  
  It's not that we don't like the technology. It's not that we are against the interoperability that it creates among platforms. It's simply the scare that Microsoft will resort to their favorite technique. Suing. It's not a shot at Microsoft's developers, Novells developers, or anything of the sort. It's a shot at the corporate side of it and stupidity that lies in patenting a "standard".
Login or register to add a comment

Create a new account or login to join in the conversation on Digg. You'll also be able to Digg stories to help promote things you like.

OSS Silverlight implementation Moonlight shines bright

Login or register to add a comment