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101 Comments
- baalzebub, on 10/12/2007, -21/+144OUCH! there is no way in hell my next motherboard purchase will have a Phoenix BIOS...
- XVampireX, on 10/12/2007, -16/+74Hmm..............
LinuxBIOS for the win :) - GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -8/+58Since all well designed OSes should avoid BIOS calls there is no reason for this. I wonder how much MS is paying them.
Note there is a use for something like LinuxBIOS for specialist cases but generic BIOS should be bloody well generic. - bobcrotch, on 10/12/2007, -18/+48It's not all Phoenix bios chips tough guy.
- schoate09, on 10/12/2007, -4/+28My Gateway's BIOS (EFI with CSM), boots Vista and OSx86. No linux bootloader, nor Xp/2000 will work.
- Lorian, on 10/12/2007, -4/+22guice: It is, it can load any OS. The BIOS itself it controlled by a Linux kernel.
- Hickeroar, on 10/12/2007, -7/+25nofx- good job botching the spelling on your search terms ;)
- mythicflux, on 10/12/2007, -9/+26Why is anyone surprised? Does no one remember Palladium or Trusted computing? How about the announcement Microsoft made with Phoenix a couple years ago regarding adding Windows code directly into Phoenix BIOS products?
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/0,1000000121,39116902,00.htm
http://www.thefreelibrary.com/Phoenix+Technologies+Announces+BIOS+Replacement+Product+That+Supports+...-a0135433803
It's called vendor-lock-in and Microsoft loves it. - DickBreath, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18Actually, it is now called OpenBios. (More marketable than LinuxBios.) And some boards from at least Gigabyte, MSI and Tyan use OpenBios.
I was shopping on NewEgg a couple weeks ago, and to my astonishment, a Gigabyte board had OpenBios. I read the reviews. Several remarked about the OpenBios. Some reviewers were using Linux and others were using Windows.
OpenBios is just a BIOS built out of Linux. Turn on the computer and you have Linux in 3 seconds. Ready to load a Windows bloat loader, or any other OSs boot loader. - nofxjunkee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14I've known lots of people who like[d] their Toshiba notebooks, myself included. Sure it was a while back when I had my Satellite but it was still great, and lasted for a long time. (I'm talking Pentium here, pretty old)
- deviationer, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19buried as inaccurate because the linux ***** who wrote this forum post is an idiot with computers and didn't even troubleshoot his problem. All he did was oh look it's asking for a password that I didn't set, pulls up some random ***** from 3 years ago, and since he believes everything he reads on the intarweb, he decided everyone else should go along with his crazy ***** anti-microsoft conspiracy theories
and no I'm not anti-linux or pro-microsoft, both camps have major ***** problems with their OS's. - superkendall, on 10/12/2007, -7/+19There is no reason why this makes any sense to a consumer, who may decide to backgrade to XP if Vista is not to his liking, or corssgrade to Linux of he decides on new uses for the hardware, or even just wants to boot Knoppix to run memory checking utilities to track down issues (as I had to do with a friends Toshiba laptop which had some bad RAM). Locking computer hardware to just one OS makes it almost worthless and un-debuggable.
I mean, here in one corner you have Apple who not only allows other OS'es on its own hardware, it writes device drivers and boot loaders to help you. Then you have VistaLand, where hardware explicitly disallows even helpful OS loading attempts like Knoppix. It's not exactly Microsoft's fault but they are encouraging hardware like this. - XVampireX, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13However, it is still called LinuxBios, OpenBios is a completely different project...:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linuxbios
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenBIOS - AJH16, on 10/12/2007, -15/+25It should run on more of an open standard, but in principal I understand what they are doing. They are trying to create a trusted platform for boot time that will ensure that only signed kernels can load. This makes a lot of sense from a security stand point and is very desireable to certain markets such as business. If all they are making available requires Vista, that is a bad thing, and it is bad that it can't be turned off through configuring bios by hand, but in principal I understand what they are trying to accomplish.
- phaero, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Is this story still relevant? I mean the forum post is from Jan 2005 and the story he references is from 2003.
- DiscoLando, on 10/12/2007, -12/+22I'm beginning to think anyone who wishes to post an article on Digg should be required to pass a basic journalism aptitude test of headline and summary writing. Could we present news a little more objectively?
- DickBreath, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12An advantage of OpenBios / LinuxBios.
You at least know that all of the hardware on the motherboard
1) is supported by Linux
2) has open source drivers, and therefore at least _some_ level of documentation, even if only the source code. (eg, no "secret" chipsets) - Urusai, on 10/12/2007, -3/+13That's great, you have both hardware and OS lock-in in one sweet, pricey package.
- cantormath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Here is the link to the Toshiba site
http://tinyurl.com/3bd4z3
Version 1.20 03-11-2007
* This BIOS is ONLY for use with Windows Vista. Please do not install this BIOS for use with Windows XP, or other Windows versions.
* Updated: Yonah T2060 micro code from Ver.59 to Ver.5B.
* Added: SETUP item "Critical Battery Wake-up".
* Corrected: "Fn sticky key" function was still enabled after resume from "Ctrl+Alt+Del -- lock this computer".
* Modified: Implemented a wakeup from S3 when battery capacity is less than 6%.
* Modified: Made a change to avoid current leakage from SPK_SEL. - fcekuahd, on 10/12/2007, -9/+18This is obviously an effort on the part of Microsoft to ensure that the PC's that they've subsidized to include Windows aren't subsequently wiped and converted to Linux. Possibly also an attempt to keep people from "downgrading" to XP. Just another sleazy anti-competitive move. Microsoft: instead of all of these anti-competitive gymnastics why don't you try doing something for the benefit of your customers for a change?
- pkulak, on 10/12/2007, -7/+16"It's not all Phoenix bios chips tough guy."
So what? - fcekuahd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Even if it's not all Phoenix BIOS chips, it means that you now have to check which bios chip the computer comes with when you're ordering. Many vendors don't even tell you this now.
- eean, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10TFA refers to that news, so yes people remember. :)
- Malakin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9I think this is because of Phoenix's "TrustedCore" feature which you can read about here:
http://tinyurl.com/327k8c
Sounds like something we may have to actively avoid when purchasing a computer. - FieldAnonymouse, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11You've got no idea what's going on do you?
People can install XP on Apple hardware because, *gasp*, Apple gives them the tools! For free even! - GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -7/+14How about the entire server market who will now avoid Phoenix in case future updates are only for Vista.
- sambo357, on 10/12/2007, -5/+12This is silly. A hardware manufacturer should be driven to commoditize complimentary products such as OS's. This would be like MySQL locking down their DB to work ONLY with Rails. What are they thinking. . . Dell has smarter management than Phoenix for sure!
- reparsed, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11"Buried as lame. Not _ALL_ Phoenix bios chips are locked down like this."
Yet...
Who in their right mind would want to encourage this kind of proprietary crap? - jamesweston, on 10/12/2007, -9/+16INACCURATE: This BIOS will work with any OS all they mean by this is that the advanced functions like "Fn, Media Keys" have optimised so that the ACPI will work with windows vista properly.
- Hickeroar, on 10/12/2007, -24/+30I HIGHLY doubt this will be ALL Phoenix bios. And as far as the article goes, one mans crippled is another mans enhanced. If there are specific OS releases that enhance performance in certain OSs, I'd be all for grabbing them. This one just happens to be for Vista.
It would be financial suicide if pheonix had Vista Only bios' from now on. Too many third party motherboards would cease to be bought... - wageslaven, on 10/12/2007, -13/+19Its not just 'objectively' writing the articles, its blatant, purposeful misdirection. And the accompanying cabal of Pro-Mac & Pro-Wii diggers who *always* digg up anything that competes in the Console, DAP or Computer market.
We end up with articles on the front page that are both A) ridiculous and trivial in scope (RSS bittorrent on Mac is there now...) B) Blatant falsehoods and ignorant mouth breathing (like this) if it "harms" anything that is in 'competition' to the above pro-sacred-cows.
Digg needs to look into a Digg/Bury system that offers a little more opportunity beyond the sheep-cycle. Slashdot's +1 Insightful, +informative et all may help.
Needless to say, im about to get buried. Instead I suggest you bury this ignorant article. - extols, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Indeed, my Toshiba laptop was very faithful...it even survived a spell submersed in 6 inches of water and worked perfectly after a small drying out session.
- graemee, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10Well if DRM is required to run the OS. ***** it - I'll get a Mac. oh, wait....
- catchphrase, on 10/12/2007, -10/+16It is a good heads up. I am about to build a Linux machine so I will choose a motherboard without phoenix.
- guice, on 10/12/2007, -16/+22According to the thread -- Splynncryth's post on second page -- LinuxBIOS is to Linux as Phoenix is to Windows. Meaning, bad idea. BIOS should be OS independent.
- kflasch, on 10/12/2007, -5/+10The description (to me) pointed out a single BIOS and didn't say ALL Phoenix BIOSes suffered from this defect.
- kahrn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6How the hell can you say Toshiba makes bad laptops?
I can echo one simple model: Toshiba Liberato.
Toshiba (behind IBM) is one of the best companies for making Laptops. No doubt about it. Take a look at the Liberato for example. If you asked most manufacturers to make something like that today (bearing in mind the liberato is around 10-15 years old now) they probably still couldn't.
Iv'e had many friends which have given praise to Toshiba, and all the experiences I have had with them have been great. You sir, should come back when you've got a good reason too say toshiba makes ***** laptops. Because they don't. They make some of the best.
And no, I'm not being paid by Toshiba to say this. - nubnub, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10Wow that sucks. I'll try to avoid them.
- markit, on 10/12/2007, -3/+7they haven't, they don't have a bios. Much like when they stopped shipping with floppy disk drives...
- trollenlord, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@schoate09:
EFI != Bios. They are completely different approaches for the same thing. And yes, it boots also 2000/XP and works with Linux bootloaders. There's EFI compatible Lilo available, and some version of Grub as well. Some distros work automatically just fine too. - anamanaman, on 10/12/2007, -11/+15Relax guys. This article is misinformation from some blowhard in a message board. I wouldn't take too much stock in it. Please keep the "OMGWTF>>BOYCOTT PHOENIX!!!!!" posts to a minimum.
- DickBreath, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5As I pointed out elsewhere in this thread, when shopping at NewEgg recently I discovered that (at least some) Gigabyte and MSI motherboards use OpenBios. I already knew that Tyan boards use OpenBios/LinuxBios. I read the NewEgg reviews. Some users used Windows, some Linux.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6Difference is when people buy a mac they want to use OSX, otherwise why would you pay more for the hardware.
- repruhsent, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Exactly what I was thinking. I bet someone got their hands on his laptop and changed the password.
- warragul, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I suppose there must be *some* legacy OSs that still use BIOS.
EFI FTW - trollenlord, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Those tools are not required btw. You can install XP or some flavor of Linux even without those tools, I did.
- SEMW, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I happen to agree with you; but Windows versions prior to Server 2003 didn't support EFI, so you know what'll happen when a major PC manufacturer starts shipping EFI PCs, don't you?
Yup.
Front page: "OMG OMG Brand X PC's crippled to work ONLY with Vista!!!1!!! [2000 diggs]" - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4hahah and whoever said google was evil
http://weekendeconomist.blogspot.com/2007/03/52-google-is-your-friend.html - master_of_fm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2all the people that dugg me down are a bunch of asshats
http://www.networkcomputing.com/blog/dailyblog/archives/2007/04/jumping_to_conc.html - z00k, on 10/12/2007, -13/+14^ What he said.
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