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43 Comments
- j01101010, on 10/12/2007, -3/+26direct to website: http://www.novell.com/products/desktop/compare-to-vista.html
- inigomntoya, on 10/12/2007, -1/+22When I worked at Novell, they were pushing everyone to get on the Novell Linux Desktop. We got all of the secretaries hooked up by saying they were getting a new monitor, so things would look different. The only way the receptionist found out she was using Linux was because she couldn't install Weatherbug.
- falloutsyndrome, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20Everyone I've asked, "Have you heard of vista, microsoft's next version of windows?" They all say no. Your average person won't be able to tell the difference between linux and windows. My sister couldn't tell, my mom, my dad, and my friends, the only difference they saw, was that there wasn't a start button.
- schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20We mustn't forget that soon after the deal with Microsoft had been made, Novell took down all the anti-Windows material from its Web site. Here is just one among many examples: http://boycottnovell.com/2006/11/20/novell-change-image/
- kryptobs2000, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9You probably only think Gentoo sucks because it's too complicated for you, and have you heard of openSuse?
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Generally no, the Linux IVT, system calls and API are totally different to their Windows equivalent. There are projects to provide a windows environment in Linux but they generally are not integrated into distros as of yet.
The exception to this is Java that works in most cases (you'll still need a Linux installer or source but it's more likely to exist).
What Linux does have is a series of their own apps that are for the most part capable replacements for Windows equivalents. - dioscaido, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Wow... I spent some time reading the white paper, and it's such a piece of FUD. They spend a whole page trashing the Vista limited user model, when in reality this is a direct parallel to the Linux security model. For example "Some Vista security features require a user to gain permission to perform tasks that are easily done today". Uh yeah, administrator only tasks are finally locked down. IT folks running a large coporation of desktops should especially be happy about that. This same 'limitation' has been the case in linux since the start (which is why it has such great security), or do all users on Novell run as root?
It's pretty sad actually. They have the opportunity to really evangelize Linux in this time of transition, and they choose FUD over professionalism. - MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Some, using WINE. But most of them are pretty buggy and act weird.
- regeya, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Vista will never catch on until software like Lotus 1-2-3 for DOS is supported better.
- pumacub, on 10/12/2007, -12/+17Linux is great and all, but claiming it is a viable upgrade path from Windows is just stupid. It's almost certain that any company running Windows will have some software (if not a lot of software) that's vital to their business and only runs within their current environment.
"We've upgraded."
"Good. Now install this Windows-only legacy software and all of our .NET applications. Oh, and figure out why our IT guys seem suddenly clueless..."
"Ummm." - coredump0x01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5The Nvidia drivers aren't so bad as they at least have OpenGL support. But the ATI drivers are total ***** in comparison with slow DX rendering and no OpenGL support at all at least, this is my experience with Vista. But ATI has always had ***** drivers regardless of operating system (XP, Linux, etc). So if you want a real graphics card with drivers that don't strive support the bare minimum, Get an Nvidia.
- BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6"""Linux is great and all, but claiming it is a viable upgrade path from Windows is just stupid. """
Not really, I've participated in such upgrades and they went without a hitch. The office-suite only monkeys in the office barely noticed, and IT were thrilled to bits.
"""It's almost certain that any company running Windows will have some software (if not a lot of software) that's vital to their business and only runs within their current environment."""
Even were this the case, a windows machine/server on a network does *not* carry the same kind of overhead as lots of windows clients, many of which get buggered about with online and packed full of garbage.
"""Good. Now install this Windows-only legacy software and all of our .NET applications."""
Note above, using your existing licenses, or using Mono, will not kill anyone, and does not necessitate haemorrhaging time and money on servers, clients and infrastructure that is Microsoft-centric if it's not cost-effective for you.
"""Oh, and figure out why our IT guys seem suddenly clueless..."""
Any "IT guy" who stands in the way of their company upgrading through their own lack of skills, needs to be fired, because they're a fraud.
You wouldn't last five minutes in any decent company with that attitude - the correct response is to STFU and go install it/read books/take courses/whatever you have to do to keep abreast of technology, hey, even if you have to take time off, the onus is on you to learn.
There is an overpopulation of computing professions by people with no technological aptitude but a wad of certificates, and to be honest
the sooner those people GTFO and let credible folks take their place, the better it will be for all of us.
I write software, it would certainly make my job easier if there were more of the good "IT guys" and less of the crap ones. - regeya, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@Raidenwolf:
You've reminded me that I need to update my resume. I work in an environment where people expect to be able to install anything, anytime, and not only that, but install any hardware they wish from home, even if it causes major problems for everyone else. The icing on the cake is that I'm usually expected to not only fix the problem personally no matter the hour, but to do so in a cheerful yet apologetic manner, even if it's the other person's *****. And this is on top of what my real responsibilities are.
OK I think my blood pressure just went up. :-) And maybe it's a bad idea to type this at work when things are royally fux0red and I haven't taken a full weekend off yet this month, and probably won't. - kryptobs2000, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6not exactly true, Vistas requires you to input the password far more than you actually need to do so. Also in linux if I want I can do whatever the hell I feel like in my home directory without putting in a password, for example, I can install programs in my home directory which is totally fine and functional in every way.
- coredump0x01, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Vista didn't run half of my games, granted some of that might have been caused by ATI's Vista driver not supporting OpenGL, even some DX games didn't run. Using an ATI x1950 No go for Quake 4 (nasty texture distortions, unplayable framerate), Legends (crashes on startup), Doom 3 (same issues as Quake 4) Nexuiz (unplayable framerate), Sauerbraten (unplayable framerate), Tribes (Goes into weird half windowed half fullscreen thing and takes no input, needs to be killed w task manager), Tribes 2 (crashes on startup). I still enjoy older games but it would not run Red Faction or Red Faction 2 at all, Games like Mafia and GTA 3 and 4 run with really annoying framerate fluxuations that jumps between ~20 and ~150 every 2 seconds. Feels like I'm getting whiplash. So for ppl who still play older games, Vista doesn't win for gaming.
- MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5Vista only makes your games slower because ATI and nVidia haven't gotten up off their asses and released decent drivers. Though, nVidia at least has more frequent releases than ATI. ATI hasn't published new drivers in over a month!
- MioTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10Your average person becomes scared and confused when either some shockwave gave won't play, or that idiotic weatherbug that despite your best efforts, you can't get them to give up won't install, or that game they want to install, etc, etc.
Trust me, I've tried....I was sick of my family breaking *****. Linux didn't last long. Now, I just have them running Vista with a limitted account. - jgrgg, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5This is probably going to sound stupid, but I haven't been paying much attention to Linux, can u download the games and programs that work on Windows XP, 2000, etc. for Linux?
- nadadingsda, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5We must never forget the evil connection between Novell and the Dark Side.
- AkiraXXX, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I've worked tech support for a long time. I really don't care what OS people use. To me, it is all about being able to accomplish what you want. But I have to say, I'm getting a bit on edge about Microsoft. I support 2000 PCs and the thought of having to deal with Vista is making me lose sleep. It took XP three years to become stable and compatible enough for my use. It works well now even though it is still virus/spyware bait. But the thought of having to shell out $250 to $400 just for the application seems pretty steep. For the average schmoe who wants to use the Internet, email, word processing, watch videos, listen to tunes and play a few games, Linux is the winner hands-down. I can do more with my old laptop and its crappy Intel on-board video and Beryl than Vista can with all of its Homeland Security style warnings about upgrading hardware and being "Vista Ready".
Hey, if you want to buy into the hype, be my guest. And, if you want to run AutoCAD or Office or World of Warcraft, you don't have much choice. But for the rest of the average users in the world, I honestly don't see why they'd part with hundreds of dollars for what amounts to next to nothing other than a late-to-the-party version of Mac OSX (with added licensing and DRM fun) by a company that spends too much time duplicating and not enough innovating.
My $0.02 - ccheath, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5@dugdig who said: "Wouldn't "Windows Vista Not Needlessly Crippled" be a better title?"
um all versions of vista are crippled, afaik - sirhomer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3BS, Vista runs games between 10% to 80% slower then Windows XP. Under NO circumstances do games run faster on Vista. Visit tomshardware benchmarks and get a clue.
- sirhomer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Exactly what does Vista have that XP doesn't have in regards to gaming? Slower FPS is not a feature. (Yes, games run much slower on Vista then XP, especially with ATi cards but with NVidia as well).
- randal2k, on 10/12/2007, -5/+6Vista makes my games much slower, and once wine is good to run GuildWars, i am gone.
- alx242, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@kryptobs2000:
There are several reasons why Gentoo sucks and they are not connected to stupidity but to a user maintenance aspect. If I wanted my upgrades to take forever due to recompile time I would use Gentoo but that is not what I want. I want to rely on my packages being maintained and compiled by someone whom is dedicated to this since architecture wise I have already made my choice and prefer not to be in a complete cycle of recompile all day long.
I like the fact that I can get a distro that is really optimized for my own setup but no comparison as of yet has shown that an i686 precompiled install distro is much different then a Gentoo install...so thanks but no thanks, I like spending my days in front of the computer doing something else then compiling someone else code. - alx242, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@5blocksfree:
No it did not escape me...I was just pointing a flip side of things...why one might say it sucks! I wouldn't say it sucks, I would say it's not my kind of thing. Besides that I was talking about maintenance not install. Install is a one time deal so it wouldn't bother me, maintenance is an every day deal.
@thepxc:
It's been a while since I last ran Gentoo now. But how many packages are maintained in binary format and if I want to stay bleeding edge would I still have to do most via compiling or could I use binary install? - alx242, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1why the hell do I always forget clicking the reply button...chessuz...:/
- thepxc, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Nobody who actually knows Gentoo cares very much about the performance boots of compiling your own packages... it really only makes a noticeable difference if it's a single huge app (EG: openoffice, the gimp, blender). You can emerge binary packages as well, so compile time isn't really an issue. Just because you don't like or understand something doesn't mean it sucks. I'm not crazy about Ubuntu and I can't stand Fedora Core 6, but that doesn't mean either are bad--they're just not for me.
- SSCrow, on 10/12/2007, -7/+8I enjoy XP.
And I am going to enjoy Vista.
Go ahead and dig me down for not being a Linux enthusiast. I don't care. - barbobot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"There is an overpopulation of computing professions by people with no technological aptitude but a wad of certificates, and to be honest
the sooner those people GTFO and let credible folks take their place, the better it will be for all of us."
hear hear - ccheath, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1got it
- kryptobs2000, on 10/12/2007, -4/+4ATI releases (*****) drivers once a month on a scheduled basis. Nvidia releases drivers whenever they feel a need to, and from what I've heard Vista actually runs games much faster in many cases.
- Elranzer, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3Wii has better games. Does that mean Wii Firmware is a better OS than Vista?
- Chandon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1No, but there are perfectly good *Linux* games and applications that work great on Linux. If you're actively a computer gamer, Windows is still a more effective choice - Crysis won't be running on Linux - but if you aren't looking forward to Crysis and HL2: Episode 2 then Linux does everything you need.
- 5blocksfree, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@alx242
So let me get this straight - gentoo sucks because *you* don't want to spend time compiling from source. Did it ever occur to you that there are *other* users who might find this aspect of it appealing? Aside from that, the notion of a stage 2 or stage 3 Gentoo install has apparently completely escaped you. - thepxc, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1@blackadder
IT guys who sign up for jobs dealing with Windows don't turn out to be frauds when they don't know anything about Linux... - Raidenwolf, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1So what you guys are saying is that people are too stupid to notice what environment they are in until they try to install weatherbug, what I think is stupider (what a word) is that most companies have a policy against employees installing software yet no one ever calls employees on it. Yes I agree people are stupid and most people that choose to run Linux over Windows I will give you are smarter. But the real problem is not so much windows, it is bad policy people, users and management that need instant gratification, people want to install anything at anytime without asking for advise from their IT dept, and when they screw up they don't want to take responsibility everyone thinks everything is okay we have a firewall. I came from a school of thought that even the administrator of the domain should have a simple user account, I would never be signed on as admin unless I had a specific task. And the machine that I ran NWAdmin to add users and control the nds tree from had no internet access, no email client and it was always logged off unless in direct use. Go to most companies nowadays and you will see all users are logged in as administrator of their machines, you will noticed that the IT dept signs on to any machine as administrator of entire domain, without consideration that this machine could have been compromised. So yes Linux maybe a superior product but once the Dumb Masses start using it, you will see companies giving SU or flat out root to all users, you will see most security disabled to a point that just does not make any sense, shares to all users on root folder, installing software that is deemed spyware and having management okay it, etc etc etc.... It is a good thing Linux user base is so selective the best users are keeping Linux safe. From my experience 4 out of 5 Linux users sign in correctly (Not as root) for day to day use and su when needed. But it still amazes me that 1 out of 5 still login as root 24 7 and when you ask they say "hey I'm behind a firewall and I'm always installing stuff"
Idiocracy is not 500 years away. - nuclearpenguins, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3No. There are emulators that get some Windows programs to work but not enough to make it worthwhile to switch to Linux.
- vajra918, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3Dugg up. I've run every version of windows from 3.11 to Vista. and most currently available Linux distros. I got compiz running on Ubuntu and it looked awesome. I got WoW running under Wine and it... well, it worked.
Vista wins because.
1) My mom can use it.
2) All my peripherals have drivers.
3) .NET
Linux no longer gets points for a 3d accelerated desktop or UAC. Vista has both and wins my comparison hands down. - xxNIRVANAxx, on 10/12/2007, -7/+3damnit Halo and Crysis!
- grevvvvvv, on 10/12/2007, -8/+2nevermind me
- nuclearpenguins, on 10/12/2007, -22/+16Vista = games. Therefore Vista wins.
- scronline, on 10/12/2007, -7/+0Too bad that Suse is so much in bed with MS that MS still gets a portion of each sale of Suse. So no, I think I'll stick with my CentOS, Ubuntu, or even crappy Gentoo before I think about using Suse. It's kind of a shame really. Suse actually has a decent distro and I've had family members on it in the past and they were actually able to use it without too much help from me. But part of the point of using Linux is to NOT give money to the behemoth that is Redmond.
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