What is Digg?Sponsored by Sony Pictures
Adam Lambert sings the 2012 theme song, “Time for Miracles” view!
whowillsurvive2012.com - Watch the Adam Lambert music video for the 2012 theme song. See 2012, in theaters Nov 13
99 Comments
- bugmenotlol, on 10/12/2007, -0/+42From the article:
'Getting a Windows refund only works if your computer is new. If you've booted into Windows once and hit the Accept button at the end of the Microsoft EULA, you're disqualified.' - schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+37Last month, after Dell came under scrutiny for this (and gava a refund), it offered "Open Source" laptops for a price that's $100 higher than that of a laptop with Windows preloaded. I suspect they did this for legal defense. Hordes of people were expecting refunds as well, you see...
Also see this:
Microsoft 'killed Dell Linux' - States
,----[ Quote ]
| The States' remedy hearing opened in DC yesterday, and States attorney
| Steven Kuney produced a devastating memo from Kempin, then in charge of
| Microsoft's OEM business, written after Judge Jackson had ordered his
| break-up of the company. Kempin raises the possibility of threatening
| Dell and other PC builders which promote Linux.
|
| "I'm thinking of hitting the OEMs harder than in the past with anti-Linux.
| ... they should do a delicate dance," Kempin wrote to Ballmer, in what is
| sure to be a memorable addition to the phrases ("knife the baby", "cut off
| the air supply") with which Microsoft enriched the English language in the
| first trial. Unlike those two, this is not contested.
|
| [...]
|
| Earlier memos described that it was "untenable" that a key Microsoft
| partner was promoting Linux. Kuney revealed that Dell disbanded its Linux
| business unit in early 2001. Dell quietly pulled Linux from its desktop PCs
| in the summer of 2001, IDG's Ashlee Vance discovered subsequently, six
| months after we heard Michael Dell declare his love of Linux on the desktop
| the previous winter.
|
| Compaq was also mentioned in other memos, with Microsoft taking the line
| that OEMs should "meet demand but not help create demand" for Linux.
`----
http://www.theregister.co.uk/2002/03/19/microsoft_killed_dell_linux_states/ - vertinox, on 10/12/2007, -1/+25@"If you've booted into Windows once and hit the Accept button at the end of the Microsoft EULA, you're disqualified.'"
What if your kid, relative, or computer tech does it for you?
I've always really considered this aspect when I've setup someone's computer for them or upgraded their OS and it was me doing all the clicking on the EULA's. - wildfire, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24Let's see if it would apply to HP and their bundling of Microsoft Works on the three machines I just bought. Because $40 for Works is like paying $15 for a burger at Planet Hollywood; sure it's food, but I'd probably have more satisfaction eating the $15 with the scant traces of cocaine and all...
- Pottersquash, on 10/12/2007, -1/+22@vertinox
If your kid did it, you would be liable since hes your kid, and he is under your control at the time.
If your relative did it, you would be liable for giving your relative access, but you could hold your relative liable to you for unauthorized use.
If your tech did it, at the time he was your employee and his actions are liable to you since it is within his realm of employment, again you can hold him liable if he has gone beyond his power, however he would have a good agrument that he was authorized
Isnt Agency Law Fun????? (in each case, the question is was the unauthorized authorizer and agent of you) - InvisionUK, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16To be fair, I do like the points made about being nice to the customer service rep. We in the retail/associated industries are usually made to feel like complete rubbish just because the customer has been told to start yelling and shouting to get their own way by all these consumer TV programmes, when in actual effect it's usually the opposite.
Would you try your hardest for a customer who wouldn't stop berating you? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1450 USD is still quite a bit.
- Four20, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12i know right. in an odd way it's like microsoft paying you 50 dollars to install ubuntu
- jman8888, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11$52 dollars?
*Installs ubuntu* - PlaidPhantom, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Well, great. Now I'm hungry again.
- bugmenotlol, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10The cost isn't the only reason why you shouldn't accept the EULA; whatever your position in the whole Windows/Linux debate, there are just some things in the EULA that you wouldn't want to be bound to. See http://wendy.seltzer.org/blog/archives/2006/10/19/forbidding_vistas_windows_licensing_disserves_the_user.html
- Pottersquash, on 10/12/2007, -4/+13Uh, the only reason MS sells the license for 50 is so the can undercut all other OS's and get you used to the MS look and feel so they can they sell you future updates at an inflated cost, or other less effective software that is by default more compatible.
Its the reason monopolies do illegal tying... - bugmenotlol, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Obviously it goes without saying that a lot of people will make use of this in the following way:
1) buy pc bundled w/ windows
2) get refund
3) install their own copy of windows (obtained from... well, I'll leave that to your imagination
There's something beautifully ironic about getting $50 from Microsoft to help pay for your torrent bandwidth bills :) - MScrip, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8> "unethical bundling..."
Unethical bundling? Including Windows with a new PC? The horror! How dare they!
The type of people who choose to use Linux shouldn't be buying PCs from a manufacturer who forces Windows anyway. - sparkles, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7The reason it's referred to as a 'tax' is that, pre-antitrust decision, Microsoft would charge hardware manufacturers for a Windows license on each PC they built, whether or not Windows was actually installed on or sold with the box.
They're no longer allowed to do that overtly, but they're continuing to find ways to do it covertly, as evidenced by some of the strongarm tactics alluded to in the first comment. - joe90210, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10Can I do this if I buy an Apple computer?
- netnifty, on 10/12/2007, -2/+8On first use does Wii Sports ask you to accept a license agreement, and if you refuse tell you you can get a refund from the company which your Wii came from? No. Microsoft Windows does, and so there is nothing wrong with exercising this option Microsoft gives you.
- Kev1000000, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7This is awesome. I always format and install my own version of windows on any new laptop I buy, but now I can get 50 bucks back! Sweetness.
- stuartcow, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7no, because you are left with no other option from the manufacturer as far as an OS goes.
so, that is like buying the Kellogg's variety pack JUST for Corn Flakes (because you can't buy them by themselves) while the EULA on the box says that you can return the cereal that you don't want.
next time read the article... the EULA when you boot windows says you can return the license to the manufacturer for a refund.... - Pottersquash, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5adml ur close, but i think its more like buying the Variety pack when all you want is Corn Flakes and your stuck with Friut Loops and etc. And the stores only sell the Varitey pack not indivdual boxes of delicious delicious flakes-o-corn, shouldn't you get your money back for an such a tying arrangement? @broomett?
Well, even if you dont think so, the government long ago said you should, so send back your windows. - NerveBand, on 10/12/2007, -6/+11Um, this is about refunds for Windows. Not channels. Get off this thread.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -20/+24You know, no one is preventing you from buying a computer from any one of the thousands of other OEM retailers and system builders, many of which offer you more robust system configuration options and cheaper prices than companies like Dell.
If you're blaming anyone for the "Windows tax", blame the specific retailers (like Dell) who are consciously doing this because it's more profitable to them. They have agreements with dozens of companies to pre-install their Windows-only ***** on every computer they sell. So it's better for them to sell systems whose OS is compatible with the ***** they make money from. - chrono13, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10"especially now when a whole lot of people are buying Macs for the hardware to run Windows on it."
Have you used OSX for a couple of hours? If you say yes, I probably won't believe you.
I use Windows and Linux, and may never switch to Mac. But I seriously doubt *anyone* much less 'a whole lot of people' are buying Mac's to only use Windows on it. - EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4If the CD was licensed under the Microsoft Campus Agreement then it only covers upgrades anyway. I order a lot of computers at our University and I have to get *some* flavor of Windows on them--then I can upgrade it however I like. Also I believe the license only covers students while they are attending the school, then the software must be removed.
- colinm, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Unfortunately it is a less-viable option if you want a laptop.
- adml_shake, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4No, using your example thats like buying a Kellogg's variety pack of nothing but corn flakes because they didn't have or offer you anthing else. Then you ask for a refund because you found out that you didn't have to buy the corn flakes because the store secretly had the option of buying the box empty and filling it with whatever type of cereal that you wanted.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I don't know that I would go as far to say idiots but, there sure are sheep on digg.
- eytsec, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7I'm surprised nobody talked about Apple Macs bundled with Mac OS X !
- leviathan3k, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5You certainly should expect to do so if you had a *LEGAL AGREEMENT* saying you could.
Grantend, a EULA is not necessarily a legal agreement, but Microsoft certainly would like to consider it one. - orbit1979, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3True as far as I know. But is it still possible? Or could you at least have one custom built to your specifications?
- Hubris, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I think it would be a tough sell....and only if you want to completely remove OSX from your box. Boot Camp isn't free - I suspect Apple would claim you require a license for OSX in order to use Boot Camp to load Windows...
You can always TRY... - cliffzdude, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Updates are free, upgrades cost. Considering the vast majority of computers with an OEM OS installed keep that OS installed through the life of the machine, the idea of coming in at a low price as a catalyst for future sales not valid.
- drakethegreat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4No because its a completely different case. There is no OEM licensing going on because Apple makes the entire deal. Thats like asking for a refund on your toaster because it didn't come preloaded with a stripped down linux kernel. The only reason this works is because two seperate companies make these products and the real reason is because Microsoft includes the ability to refund it to the person buying it. If Microsoft decided to not include that and could still get vendors to buy their product then legally these hardware manufacturers wouldn't have to do anything. I can see what your doing though, your trying to make Apple look like the bad guy but then you can look at any product on the market that has computer chips embedded since they use software and good luck trying to get them to refund you for it...
- motters, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4Another alternative to this is just to build the PC yourself from scratch, buying the case, motherboard, processor and so on. I know this isn't for everyone, and it's not as convenient as just buying something off the shelf, but it is yet another way of avoiding paying the Windows tax.
- ExtremeRyno, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I attempted to return my copy of WinXP MCE from HP with no luck. I wasn't going to go the Linux route, rather I was going to put Win2k on instead as I already own it and it is in my opinion a superior product to WinXP. I explained to them, I complained, I lied, and I got no where. HP doesn't give money back. Doesn't bother me too much, really, because seriously...What's $52 anymore? Maybe a pair of pants or a shirt.
- adml_shake, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2My problem is that I ordered my laptop (2 years ago) from dell with windows xp home on it because I had already gotten a copy of pro from the college I was attending. So I didn't even boot into the OS that was installed on it, I just popped the CD on the first boot wiped the HD and installed a fresh clean copy of pro. But I'm guessing that my laptop is a little old to get the refund.
- EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1If it's the Microsoft Campus Agreement then the *license* only covers upgrades for Windows. Other software in the agreement includes the full version. From the Microsoft Campus Agreement page, the licensed software currently includes "Windows Vista Enterprise *UPGRADE*" [emphasis added] as well as older versions of Windows. Feel free to read more at http://www.microsoft.com/education/CampusAgreement.mspx . As you mentioned, the media will allow you to install on a blank drive without proving prior ownership, but you're still not legally covered unless you have a license for some flavor of Windows for that machine.
Incidentally I was partially wrong about the student option. Our campus doesn't purchase that feature so I wasn't sure, but if you graduate from the licensing institution the license becomes permanent. If you leave without graduating you must remove the software from your computer or exercise the buyout option. - mrmagoo, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I've seen this before. Same story. Just build your own computer and you don't have to deal with any of it. Plus you get a better computer at the end.
- Bobalobabingbon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1$50 isn't worth my time to do all of that.
- sanguinemoon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Indeed. It makes little to no sense to abuse the rep that you get. He or She did not make the policy. Also, sometimes the consumer is so busy yelling and carrying on that the actual nature of the problem never comes out in the call. If the problem does get mentioned in the call, let me put it this way...do you want to help somebody that's abusing you. In your mind you're calling a company, and yes you are; but you'll also be talking to a human being with feeling and one of those feeling is "Ok, this guy is doing nothing but screaming..he's not getting anything from me!"
So at some point you ask to speak to supervisor to get what you want. There's a fair chance you won't get an actual supervisor, but a member of an "escalation" desk, but usaully can do eveything that a real supervisor can do. This a "warm" transfer, meaning the rep has to talk to the "supervisor " first, and yell the "supervisor" what a jackass you are. if your behaviour doesn't improve, do you really think you'll get anywhere. Now you're speaking to somebody whose been there a few years and has a thicker skin and cares even less. So at this point you think you'll ask for somebody even higher. Now it gets amusing. When I worked for a major cellphone company, a major would come to my desk, and I would tell the manager how to handle the call, including telling him if the customer's request could even be satisified at all.
Now here's something those consumer shows don't tell you, or don't actually know. At least a few firms that can actually ban abusive callers. It's very simple, they just ban whatever ani you call in from and a note is made to ban any other numbers that you try to call in on. So that's the long winded way of saying, when you call, don't be an ass. - orbit1979, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Exactly! If you build a PC yourself, you can build any dam system you want. And it is not very hard either, in fact I would argue that the hardware is the easier part. You can then use any OS you want.
- wildfire, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1It could buy you (3) burgers at Planet Hollywood!
- orbit1979, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@ bugmenotlol:
"but that's no reason to allow your frustrations to manifest themselves in the form of poorly written, sanctimonious and factually-incorrect digg comments."
In other words, anything you disagree with. You should take a piece of you own advice shove it up your anus. Until then go suck a fat one! :P - brickguy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Dells are crap.
- jsusanka, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"The auto industry. In most cases for any given make and model you have 2 or 3 "trim" levels. Some don't have everything you want in a car, others have too much, but some of what you want. Either you pay less and don't get the features you want, or pay a lot more and get features you want plus some you don't."
that isn't even the same thing - at least you have the choice of going to ford, chevy, honda, toyota, volkswagon, etc etc - here in this industry you don't even have the choice because one company has forced their monopoly on the industry illegally and yet has had only a hand slap and just keeps buying itself out of jams it gets into because of all the money they make from their illegal monopoly. - orbit1979, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"name one other industry that you have to go to such extremes just to have a choice of what you want."
The auto industry. In most cases for any given make and model you have 2 or 3 "trim" levels. Some don't have everything you want in a car, others have too much, but some of what you want. Either you pay less and don't get the features you want, or pay a lot more and get features you want plus some you don't. - Lobster, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Good attitude works for everyone. If Dell and other manufacturers fail to embed a basic OS in hardware, then far East suppliers will. China is bypassing OEM services and box packers and dealing first with their consumers and increasingly for profit, the West.
Reliable and increasingly powerful operating systems are embedded in mobile phones. The MS era is finished. Get your money back whilst you can.
Soon they won't have any. - sparkles, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@SundayBrunch: I imagine your first challenge would be to show that accepting a EULA constitutes a tort. I guess you could come up with a far fetched argument in cases in which parents are suing their own children, but even that would be a tough argument to make.
And I think you replied to the wrong post. - KoderOne, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Return it, get yor 52 bucks and install "ungenuine" Windows if you want.
There's really nothing wrong with not paying for Windows. Not because it sucks. Because it is just far more comfortable when you don't have to get a new license key from MS every time you install new hardware.
They have to be punished for treating all their customers like criminals, mistrusting them, spying on them, locking them in.
Of course that is illegal, so I personally would never do such a thing. ;-) - sarnia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I sold my Windows disc on Craigslist. There's always a person who doesn't want to spend hundreds for a serial number, in exchange for a case of beer in your fridge.
-
Show 51 - 99 of 99 discussions
The Digg Toolbar for Firefox lets you Digg, submit content, and keep track of Digg even when you're not on the Digg site. Download the official 
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is