What is Digg?135 Comments
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+121@anicejew
You really think that none of the $2,000 you paid for a MacBook Pro went towards the operating system?
You're an idiot. - TKn00b, on 10/12/2007, -3/+111OS X costs money and Ubuntu does not, but hey that didn't make the front page either
- meuserj, on 10/12/2007, -1/+56@ElitistSnob
"And before you fire back with the predictable Linux fanboy claim that "You just don't want to try something different" I have Ubuntu running on my AMD rig..."
Is that the geek equivalent to the "I'm not racist, I have friends that are black." argument? - chrono13, on 10/12/2007, -0/+45This is a very small step programing wise (just a bit of script), however, it is a MASSIVE step toward wider adoption.
I've heard many people simply handing out Ubuntu disks. And while I'll argue various points that Ubuntu is easier to install, setup and maintain than Windows, general folks, even most geeks do not know Linux. This learning curve, however much easier than Windows, will be perceived as difficult, different and worst of all frustrating to those who otherwise are wizards with Windows who now feel lost.
This "Instant system" type setup allows casual users and migrating users to actually USE Linux and experience it before ever getting their hands dirty. Once they are comfortable with the GUI, the applications and some of the system - if they need to learn something advanced to accomplish something, it will be much easier since they only have to learn that last part - not the GUI, apps, package manager, AND advanced CLI magic all at once (which needless to say turns many off to Linux).
Automatix could be rough on stability and gets around force by... force. Not the best solution. EasyUbuntu always lacked behind Automatix and some functions sometimes failed to work. Now with an official solution, it can be quick, easy and newbie friendly.
Talk about beating Windows for ease of use. This effectively eliminates (for (x)buntu anyway) one of the single largest hurdles for wider Linux adoption. - diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -8/+48@ElitistSnob
"frankly no one outside the niche of Linux fanatics really wants this OS"
Correction: frankly no one outside the niche of Linux fanatics really KNOWS ABOUT this OS. - diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -1/+38***Extra info that didn't fit in description:
The package depends on gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly, gstreamer0.10-plugins-ugly-multiverse, msttcorefonts, sun-java5-jre, flashplugin-nonfree, sun-java5-plugin (so it basically auto-installs these for you) .
It is also available via the gnome-app-install app accessed by the Add/Remove entry under "Applications". Flash 9 Beta was installed and works great with Digg Labs http://www.flickr.com/photos/28313023@N00/350208234/in/set-72157594466867001/ and mp3s played perfectly. Divx was audio only currently, and H.264, MPEG4, and WMV still didn't play. This is a limitation of gstreamer, however, and not the package itself. [as a side note, gstreamer-bad plugins should play some of those formats; they are the beta gstreamer codecs] Definitely makes installing Linux a lot easier since there is less "essentials" to add. Have fun! - ModernTenshi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+35Correction: you paid the price of the MacBook to get it. If you want to upgrade to the latest version later on, you'll shell out another $129. Using Ubuntu, I can upgrade to Feisty Fawn when it comes out, and at no charge.
This is cool though. Having installed Edgy on notebook's new HDD, I'm really impressed with Ubuntu. I've been running it on an old Toshiba Tecra (circa year 2000 or something, my dad's old work laptop), and it's nice, but I wanted to see how it performed on a more modern system, like my main notebook. I gots the Beryl+XGL going on, and I feel good.
For now, though, Automatix2 got the job done for Flash support. Yes, I know Ubuntu hates it, but I'm lazy, and it installed a ***** of apps for me with very little intervention on my part. - coredump0x01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+33@ElitistSnob
You just don't want to try something different. - ubuwalker31, on 10/12/2007, -2/+32@anicejew
Everytime I see one of your posts, I am going to educate Diggers to a new Yiddish or Hebrew word. Today's lesson:
anicejew is a schmeckle. See http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=Schmeckle - wezzul, on 10/12/2007, -0/+27@ElitistSnob: 'It all comes down to which one consumers want...and like it or not they don't want Linux.'
Meanwhile, OSX is just running away with market share, right?
I said this on Slashdot a while ago, and I'll say it again here. For desktops, Windows is king. For servers, it's Linux. Apple is trying to penetrate both markets with marginal success. - weijie90, on 10/12/2007, -0/+24OK... but to be successful, the option to install it must be in an obvious location, such as an "Install Restricted Multimedia Codecs" icon on the desktop after installation. Otherwise new users will not be able to find out how to get the codecs unless they google it.
- tboutcher, on 10/12/2007, -0/+22@diggapleazeI just want to say great job on the extra detail. Users like you make digg great
- somerandomnerd, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22Where where?
Linux is fine. It's the hardware manufacturers who only publish Windows drivers that are the problem.
(My Compaq laptop worked out of the box, with it's Intel graphics and wireless card.) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+22I auto dugg junkmail down because I thought he was anicejew :'( Woops. Guess I have to look further then the avatar now.
- maino82, on 10/12/2007, -0/+18My wireless worked out of the box just fine (Foxconn card) with the RT2500 driver. All I had to do was go into the network manager and select my wireless id and put in the password and I was on the net in no time. Granted, there are plenty of cards that DON'T work out of the box, but support will improve as time goes on.
- geronimo, on 10/12/2007, -3/+21Very typical of apple fan boys/girls, self-centered as always, to make sure to mention Apple anytime someone says something positive about another OS.
Ubuntu is a great distro - I tried it recently and I now use it as my main OS. I've used redhat since 7.3 but I am open minded. Ubuntu is polished. While apple or windows fanboys complain, they oooh and ahhh at coffee shops as they glimpse my rotating 3d cube desktop. Maybe someday you guys will get that. - WaldoX, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16install vlc player plays divx.... mp4 etc..
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -3/+19Ubuntu is taking small but vital steps in the right direction making it even more appealing to the average person, Ubuntu has come along way, it's definitely one off the best Distributions out there.
- Wootery, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15@anicejew
"OS X came free with my macbook pro. I paid a total of: $0 and 00 cents for it."
What you mean to say is "OS X is always included with an Apple computer."
OS X is not a free operating-system. Not free-as-in-beer (soon you'll be paying for Leopard, or pirating it), and not free-as-in-freedom (though somewhat more so than Windows). - diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14Wait a sec, why are you trying out Fawn already? It's barely even functional yet!
But I have some good news for you. They're fixing the WPA problem for Feisty too for April: https://wiki.ubuntu.com/NetworkRoaming . And it's the very first feature on the spec list for Feisty, see here https://blueprints.launchpad.net/ubuntu/feisty . NetworkManager with WPA support built-in is pretty damn robust at this point, and will be even more so when finally integrated in the Ubuntu desktop.
So wipe that frown off come April and give Linux another try! - NewChar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13These packages have been in Ubuntu for a while too. What this news describes is that all of the restricted codecs are in one simple meta-package that installs everything and enables the correct repositories.
- burty89, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13@mikefitz2:
"I'm so ***** tired of trying to get Ubuntu 6.10 work with my Broadcom wireless device. I wasted three days last week following the handy 'guides' posted on the official forums and ended up throwing my XP install back on."
I don't know which card you use but for my broadcom (4318 (aka Airport Extreme)), I just needed to install bcm43xx-fwcutter and run it to get firmware. Google wl_apsta.o (name of the file I got the firmware from, result 2 is a tutorial on what you need to do). Also install networkmanager-gnome or knetworkmanager for gnome/kde respectively, it makes things much simpler.
"So frustrating. And for what, a slower operating system," - Linux is definately faster on my machine, particularly when visual effects using compiz vs. aero glass is taken into account.
"with slower boot time," - Again, simply not true for any of my machines
"almost no application support" - There are thousands of apps, with more companies developing them all the time...
"no 3D driver support?" - Check your graphics cards manufacturers site. ATI & NVidia both have 3D drivers, Intel I believe should work out of the box, anything else I don't know
"Installing applications from a command line?" - Try System -> Synaptic Package Manager, nobody forces you to use the command line
"Waste of my time, for ***** sake I can see why these developers only compile Windows drivers." - No, you can't. You don't know how to find the package manager by clicking on a menu, so you sure as hell don't know anything about driver development
"I'm so sick of 'the elite few' who use Linux as their primary OS and look down on us Windows Peons." - Yes, a few do take that attitude, but most don't. Its just that the ones who do tend to be louder... - Lazybones, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Most users of other OS don't know what a "Codec" is just that they need to install that FLASH thing or that Quicktime thing so they can watch that video that they just received in their inbox.
For this to work they will need to call it something like.. enhanced video support. With a description stating that it will enable most common internet videos and music file formats. - kingace, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16anicejew: You are a disgrace to our people.
- diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13@schestowitz: glad you noticed the new avatar :)
@biggyfred: there's nothing about this new installation method that would violate the *letter* of the GPL if you were to put a big fat button on the desktop after installation that says "Click Here to download and install all closed-source/binary codecs and drivers". It's just rather untactful from a distribution's point of view because...well...it's just not the thing to do at this point in the FOSS culture. You would make your distro a pariah, sorta like what Freespire does. What *does* violate the GPL(according to GNU) is if you were to make a distro, and then ship the binary codecs and drivers in the same package (i.e. the CD or DVD).
What's that I hear you asking?? Ubuntu already ships binary drivers by default on the CD, right? This short read might clear some things up http://www.ubuntu.com/ubuntu/licensing if you didn't know that Ubuntu ships closed-source software by default. So how does Ubuntu get away with it?
Well, brace yourself...basically *every* Linux distribution, according to the FSF, violates the GPL with the two exceptions of gNewSense and Ututo. It appears that the FSF picks their battles and gives distros some fudge room. It all hinges on the definition of a "derivative work". Does a distribution of software (i.e. a Linux distro) count as a "derivative work" if binary software is packaged with and made to work with GPL software? [edit: I don't know the answer to that question!] More specifically, for example, does a closed source graphics driver (like nvidia's) that *hooks* into the Linux kernel count as a GPL violation if shipped publicly? In the case of Ubuntu, Canonical makes the argument that binary drivers are required to even get a user's system up and running. With Feisty Fawn, that argument is extended to the graphics card. According to project goals for Ubuntu's next release, if you bought the hardware, you should be able to use it without having to be a Linux command line guru.
I may have raised more questions to you than answered the questions you asked, but I hope it at least clears a couple things up :) - ssam, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg does exist in ubuntu universe
- diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10@Phocion55
OK. I'm gonna call you out right now. Name *one* distro other than (I think) Freespire that provides a *metapackage* that autoinstalls Flash, common codecs, Sun's java, and true type fonts all in one go. And don't say gentoo, because we both know it ain't so. - schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11That is excellent news, 'Chuck'.
Many people in the forums have proposed some form of Automatix integration, installer option, menu item, etc. It's rather bad when an obscure script like EasyUbuntu is such a crucial piece of information. It frustrates many newbies who order a CD but never attend the forums. Moreover, let's wait and see if Canonical supplies binary blobs 'out of the box' now that binary codecs are a few clicks away. This could help avoid GPL violations. - diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7yep, my thoughts exactly. Toss in gstreamer0.10-pitfdll too and put some logic in the installation of the codecs that checks to see if you're dual booting with MS Windows, and if so, scan the dll's on the Windows partition for various win32codecs for use by pitfdll. Register the Windows codecs with gstreamer via the pitfdll module. Completely legal way to get H.264 and WMV working within Ubuntu flawlessly.
- diggapleaze, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8...and I'd like to go on record and say that Ubuntu gets my vote for this easy-codec-install method. People are using autoinstall scripts anyways, why not make it official and more usable?
Sort of like how regulating and legalizing drugs and prostitution makes for a safer and cleaner society :) - karamba_kid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7You must not be looking very hard. The first USB wifi adapter I tried was a cheap 'CompUSA' which has the zd1211rw chipset in it which has a native linux (2.6.x) driver, or at least it did in ubuntu edgy. I had it working with wpa_supplicant in no time.
- tracker1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8I think that this is great... I've been running Ubuntu on my desktop for about 8 months now, it's worked pretty well, but not great. I do development work in windows, so it had to stick around in VMware for Visual Studio and Paint Shop Pro. Almost everything I did in Linux worked, however a lot of it, took a lot of effort. A few buggy areas, and crashes here and there. It seemed like a lot of the gnome panel applets were buggiest of all.
I am returning to windows this evening as my main OS, simply because I spend a lot of my time in windows for work. I respect the efforts that have been made thus far, and hope that adoption continues to grow. I also hope that stability, and version compatibility become more common place. A number of times over the year, kernel updates broke one thing or another... The VMware Player package in particular. The mono framework doesn't keep up nearly as well as the Debian unstable repositories do, which was another big issue. Badgerports helped a bit, but my hopes of doing more work under Linux just haven't come to fruition. I will probably give it another try in about a year or so. - neko, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I've got gstreamer0.10-ffmpeg on my system, it plays practically everything. Not sure if it's available in Ubuntu though?
- thread, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6What's the deal with Sun's Java being included in here? I thought it was distributed under GPL as of not too long ago.
- uhdean, on 10/12/2007, -4/+10Here Here! Linux and Wireless need some work!
- lpcustom, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@Phocion55
No one said Ubuntu was the first to implement this. It's great that Gentoo has been doing it, but try to get an average computer user to use Gentoo. It's a great distro don't get me wrong, but it had serious problems the last time I tried it. Besides being a hell of a lot more complicated for someone new to Linux it seems that every package in Gentoo is now masked. Sure you can still install these masked packages but they tend to cause my install to get hosed. I can't remember which packages were masked cause it's been a while but they were programs I like to have installed.
You can knock Ubuntu all you want because, like many, you don't like what's "popular", and when it comes to Linux distros Gentoo used to be very popular. People liked it when it was fresh and new but now it doesn't seem to get as much press. There was a time when it got all the press though. You can hate Ubuntu for its popularity but in the end it's not a bad choice. It's the same programs you use on Gentoo but it doesn't break as often. If you need to optimize your system you can do all the re-compiling and optimization you want to do with apt-build. Or you could try out a binary package based 686 optimized distro like Arch. Finally, if you just want to compile your system all the time why not just go full out and do a Linux from Scratch install. However you dish it, Gentoo has no advantage worth mentioning. I'd rather spend 20 minutes installing and customizing my Ubuntu install than 7 hours installing and weeks customizing my Gentoo install. If I feel list compiling a custom system I'll build an LFS. - Vektuz, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5This kind of thing needs to be an option during install.
Users must not be forced to play hunt-the-package for stuff that you KNOW they probably want to do (like play video).
There needs to be a checkbox or dialog or something in the actual base install that says, "by the way, will you be using this system to play videos?" and if the user answers yes, it installs them. Because you sure as hell can't play videos without them. - bradleyland, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5ElitistSnob is so out of touch. My girlfriend's 83 year old grandfather wanted to finally make the plunge and get a computer. Did I have him spend $500 on a new Dell? Nope. I pulled out an old P4 1.3 MHz 512MB of RAM system that I had lying around and threw Ubuntu on it.
Anicejew, the very simple reason this is front page news, and the fact that OS X already does it is not, is related to the fact that prior to this, it was somewhat difficult to get these items installed without dipping into the command-line, which is something my girlfriend's grandfather just isn't going to do.
In short, this is great news because it improves the available alternatives. - crazybrit, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Holy *****. Oh my god. Yes. One less thing for Ubuntu's detractors to whine about.
- motang, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Dude this is sweet...one step closer to becoming easier to use.
- DoubtingThomas, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Wireless worked fine out-of-the-box when I installed Dapper Drake.
3D graphics, that's another story. I have spent way to much time trying to get 3D acceleration working against my ATi Mobility 9700 and never once got it to work (SUSE 9.2, SUSE 10.0 and Ubuntu DD). I have tried every xorg config variation I could find on the myriad of forums I have poured through. I have just resolved myself to the fact that I will never have 3D acceleration on any LINUX distro. Do I blame LINUX? Not one iota, I blame ATi for being a pack of close-minded ***** heads that produce sub-par proprietary LINUX drivers. Still, that doesn't change the fact that my card doesn't work 100% correctly. Want to know what it has done? It has formed up my resolve to never buy another ATi product until they get their ***** together. Now you may ask why would ATi even care about one unhappy geek? I will tell you why they should. I influence the buying decision of many of my less-than-geeky friends and family. They will also be told never to buy ATi products also. - rubengs, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Take your pills man, don't get angry for an OS, use wathever you want and live and let live.
- mercurysquad, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Actually it's funny but it was the other way round for me. EVERY SINGLE device on my Dell laptop needed drivers to be installed under XP (I found that out after I reformatted and reinstalled XP). But in Ubuntu, I would plug something in and then immediately google for the drivers, only to be told that "there are no drivers available for download because your OS already has support built in." I have a friend who is wanting to switch to Ubuntu just because stuff just worked on my laptop while it didn't, on his ;)
- Marvelboy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I've been using Ubuntu linux for about six months now, and all my friends are impressed with how easy it seems and how good it looks, but the moment I start explaining automatix to them and codec support, they are turned off. My friend/roommate gets a popup every 10 minutes saying his copy of windows isn't genuine, and he still won't switch. This additional repository should change his mind.
- drizek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"I auto dugg junkmail down because I thought he was anicejew :'( Woops. Guess I have to look further then the avatar now."
There is no need. They are both equally stupid. From another one of his posts:
"smell is coming from our friends in Iran" - Shirokun, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Wouldn't it be better if it wasn't released only for feisty but also for Edgy, drapper....?
- straxus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@mikefitz2:
"Excellent point. I'm so ***** tired of trying to get Ubuntu 6.10 work with my Broadcom wireless device. I wasted three days last week following the handy 'guides' posted on the official forums and ended up throwing my XP install back on. So frustrating."
Sorry you had a bad experience. Please understand that as popular a distro as Ubuntu is, it isn't for everyone's hardware. One of the keys to running linux happily is to run a distro that gives you the best 'out of box' support for your hardware. You might want to take Fedora and OpenSUSE LiveCDs for a spin to see if they fully support your hardware. There's also a good chance Feisty will support your card, if you are willing to give it another go in a few months.
"And for what, a slower operating system, with slower boot time, almost no application support, no 3D driver support? Installing applications from a command line?"
For what it's worth, I personally use Ubuntu on my desktop, and have none of the above issues. I hope you don't give up on Linux all together because of a bad experience with Ubuntu. As much as I like it, it isn't what's best for everyone. - kingace, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6Welcome to society...
- guttertrash, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@ispshadow: people who dont know the difference between a desktop and a browser shouldnt be using a computer at all. I say make computers hard, lets get all the stupid people off the internet. :D
- kingace, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6He's a disgrace to the Jewish people because by openly declaring himself as a jew in his name and then saying stupid ***** that everyone hates he is making it look like he is representative of the religion.
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