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youtube.com - Musician and Best Buy employee, Keith Parsons, rocks his Best Buy holiday campaign audition.
52 Comments
- schestowitz, on 10/11/2007, -3/+43Whatever choices they have made, let's just take it and ensure that the anti-Linux venom (Silverlight) never gets any momentum. It's known as the attempt to hijack and close the Net, which then becomes .NET. The worst we can do is whine about Flash for Linux. gnash is coming along nicely with version 0.80, which was released just a couple of days ago (full support for YouTube videos). It's open source!
- phjr, on 10/11/2007, -0/+26Yeah, it's just good that Flash is getting better, and Adobe thinks about support for Linux... Sure - Flash is not perfect, but is way better than (in fact proprietary, despite all what Microsoft says) Silverlight.
- HerbertScrunge, on 10/11/2007, -2/+27Using kdelibs would make life hard for GNOME users without humungous amounts of RAM ;) (And yes, I've seen the benchmarks, but regardless of its efficiency, kdelibs is *big* and has a large initial footprint).
Gnash uses the desktop-neutral OpenGL (which, before anyone jumps down my throat, can be rendered in software, if need be) which I think is a far better approach. Hopefully it will be a suitable replacement soon, as it would be great to have a usable, Free, flash implementation that can be pre-installed and working OOTB in all distros that want it. - geminitojanus, on 10/11/2007, -0/+21"it uses XUL"
XUL in turn uses GTK+/GDK to render is widgets in Linux (XUL->XPCOM->GTK+), is being moved to Cocoa in Mac OS X (currently XUL->XPCOM->Carbon/Quartz), and uses Win32 in Windows (you guessed it, XUL->XPCOM->Win32). In other words, saying it uses XUL says it uses GTK+ wrt Linux. - phjr, on 10/11/2007, -2/+16@7of7: it's not FUD that Microsoft's technologies are proprietary etc. I'm not saying Silverlight is technically bad and has some problems. The nature of these problems is rather political / marketing-related.
- ptFoe, on 10/11/2007, -1/+15Well Adobe should release Photoshop for Linux and Dreamweaver, it really wants to get back at Microsoft.
- chair, on 10/11/2007, -1/+13OK I installed the plug-in last night and it's good, full screen works well and the right-click menus look much better. It doesn't work in Konqueror, more info about it can be found on Kevin Krammer's blog (http://www.kdedevelopers.org/blog/83). Something's seems to be wrong with kdedevelopers at the moment so here's my summary.
Adobe Flash Player 9 Update 3 beta uses the XEmbed protocol, which is supported by Konqueror, but not the way the plug-in needs. The Konq and Adobe Flash developers are looking at a solution (There's a thread on kfm-devel started by a Adobe Flash developer http://lists.kde.org/?t=117560482600004&r=1&w=2). The problem is that using the new API would mean that the plug-in runs inside the browser, but plug-ins in Konqueror are run out-of-process (so that a plug-in freezing or crashing doesn't affect the whole browser). It's possible that Firefox might switch to out-of-process plug-ins. There might be a way to use the plug-in in Konqueror, but until the plug-in is finalised the konq devs won't know what they have to do.
Now, as for the whole GTK vs Qt thing. First of all, there's a difference between GTK and GNOME libs, and Qt and KDE libs. So let's forget about GNOME libs and KDE libs, they have nothing to do with this. The new Flash plug-in uses GTK (I think it previously used Tk, which is lightweight but limited and kinda ugly on a modern system). For two reasons I think:
1. Firefox uses GTK. I'm a KDE user and I use Firefox. Konq is faster and integrates better in KDE but a lot of websites won't work. KHTML/Webkit is one of the most standards compliant rendering engine but there's just not enough users to compel a website to test against it. It was the same with Firefox but now they have enough market share to get noticed. And the reason they have the market share is because it runs on Windows. I love Linux, but still I realise that in terms of amount of desktop users Linux is almost insignificant.
2. GTK is licensed under the LGPL (lesser GPL), so there's less legal restrictions than if they went with Qt, which is under the GPL.
And memory usage? Using a Qt app under GNOME is going to take more memory than a GTK app. Using a GTK app under KDE is going to take more memory than a Qt app. I've got a fast computer with 1.5 gigs of RAM, what do I care? - Chandon, on 10/11/2007, -1/+10I'm surprised they don't wrap the plugins somehow to put them in a different process from the browser itself - so that when the plugins crash / lag / whatever it doesn't impact anything else.
- geminitojanus, on 10/11/2007, -0/+9Reporting your problems here on Digg isn't going to help the Adobe developers. Send them an email or comment on their blog, they'll tell you better how to report errors to them.
- 13thMonkey, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8"Potentially more stable". Well that's ***** great news (potentially).
- mooninite, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8Link to the mozilla bug? Save me a few precious minutes searching bugzilla. :)
- Chandon, on 10/11/2007, -2/+9> Flash windows are "always on top" so to speak, and always have been on the Linux player.
Adobe says this is a Mozilla bug.
Mozilla says it's a bug in all the web pages.
Web developers say "WTF? It works everywhere else, my page is fine".
In conclusion, more people need to vote for the bug on bugzilla so the Mozilla guys actually make their browser work as expected. - danhillmoses, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7Uninstall your current flash plugin (I assume with YaST -- your package manager), download the new plugin in, extract it ("tar xzvf [filename]" in the terminal, or just use the GUI), then run the install script ("./[filename]" in the terminal, or you might be able to just click it).
- ptFoe, on 10/11/2007, -3/+9What are you using pentium 2?
- geminitojanus, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6"The new Gecko engine will be written directly in Cairo. "
Uh yeah, it's going to use Cairo for layout and rendering. What's your point? It's still going to use GTK+. Cairo isn't a toolkit as much as it is a generic layout engine; it allows users to create cross-platform programs that use the fastest rendering system available for that OS with one API (for example, GDI in Windows, Xlibs in whatever *nix, Quartz in Mac OS X, and when Glitz gets mature, OpenGL too).
Cairo doesn't provide much else, however; no widgets, no event system, etc. These will still need to be provided by either platform specific toolkits (Win32/MFCs/.NET, GTK+/Qt, Carbon/Cocoa) or adapter toolkits (XUL, Wx, etc). - Vinvin, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8But if you're using Qt, there's no big difference in using GTK or whatever it was that they were using before, is there? And GTK is light-weight enough for many Xfce users.
- GMorgan, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6The new Gecko engine will be written directly in Cairo. *much partying ensues*
Seriously the decision to go directly Cairo is a good one. Before the GNOME users cry, GTK+ use Cairo these days anyway (albeit in a limited way) so the library will always be loaded. For the KDE guys they don't have to load everything, just Cairo. Much more efficient. - mooninite, on 10/11/2007, -0/+5This release is still far from perfect.
Flash windows are "always on top" so to speak, and always have been on the Linux player. Example: A website has a HTML/CSS navigation bar at the top, but a Flash video right underneath....... if you try to use the nav bar and it has drop downs, you can't get to some of them because the Flash player is on top of the drop downs.
Firefox bug on Linux? - NoTiG, on 10/11/2007, -5/+9flash i believe is the main cause of my firefox instability
- codeman38, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3No PowerPC Linux version either. Not that I really expected it, given that there hasn't been one yet that I know of, but still... it's one of the things keeping me from running Linux as a primary OS on my PowerBook.
- melve, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3"just use wmode=transparent as a parameter on the flash object, and the menus will appear on top. I use this for my site"
This won't work on linux versions of firefox. Here's the bugzilla URL : https://bugzilla.mozilla.org/show_bug.cgi?id=137189 - sockdemon, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Still no 64 bit version, I guess I'll have to move my mouse out of the flash window and back in to click again for just a little bit longer! Huzzah!
My fault for mistakingly downloading the 64bit ubuntu :( - Chandon, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3I run 64 bit Ubuntu, and I just went and downloaded the 32 bit Firefox off getfirefox.com and installed it in my home directory. I had to install a couple of 32bit compatibility packages through the package manager, but flash works fine.
- godzillaWax, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4pentium 4 3.2ghz 1gb ram
- hikaricore, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Flashblock is a nice work around for this, see flash when you want, don't when it's annoying/in the way.
not the best solution but it works. - Chandon, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3This is a bug in your distro most likely. With Flash 9 on Ubuntu (even with janky stuff going on to run 32 bit and 64 bit apps at the same time), Alsa has no trouble mixing whatever different sound sources I give it with Flash.
- Chandon, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4PhinnFort -
According to that page, the entire XFCE desktop environment (based on GTK) only weighs in at 16 megs. Even if *all of that* is GTK (which it isn't), that's not an absurd amount of memory to add to a KDE desktop for a proprietary browser plugin. It's not free, but it shouldn't be significantly impacting your RAM usage either. - danhillmoses, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2But fjleon, I can't just go and change the HTML of sites that I go to regularly and don't use that, such as mlb.com and Newegg.
I also can't find the exact bug in Bugzilla -- does anyone know it's number? - danhillmoses, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2If your /home is on a different partition, you can install the 32 bit version without having to backup a lot of stuff.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1So still unusable for any of the office machines, which are amd64 machines with Ubuntu. Unlike my colleagues, I don't miss Flash in the slightest. There are a number of companies that have lost my business as their site is not navigable with Flash. With so much choice over the Internet anything which slows me down simply isn't worth wasting time over. And I'm also not going to mess around with 32-bit emulations. I clean installation is a maintenance free installation, I've no intention of being sys admin for everyone.
Phillip. - godzillaWax, on 10/11/2007, -2/+3you and a bunch of others....but not so large a bunch as to actually force any change.
honestly, mozilla knows about flash's buginess - why dont they pull any weight in getting in making them fix it? - fjleon, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1just use wmode=transparent as a parameter on the flash object, and the menus will appear on top. I use this for my site
- super_duper, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2thank God....firefox crashing with every other youtube video was starting to get really ***** annoying.
- SteveMax, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1That's NOT a Firefox bug at all. It happens on Seamonkey (I know...), Opera and Konqueror also. Any Flash object that can grow (example: some ads that get larger on mouseover, or Flash menus) is always at its maximum size, overlapping any text/pictures that could be under them.
- motang, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Finally! Really good news.
- PhinnFort, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1@HerbertScrunge:
esn't use OpenGL for the interface (widgets, not drawing). Gnash uses OpenGL for drawing the flash itself, but Tk, afaik. Yes, it's still another toolkit, but it's extremely lightweight.
@chair:
No, Firefox doesn't use GTK, it uses XUL, as theroyalweman already noted. And how about making two versions, abstracting the interface shouldn't be that hard. But it do boggle me why they need a widget toolkit at all.
The biggest reason they use GTK over Qt is probably that Qt is mainly a C++ library, while GTK is mainly C. - dschep, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1@PhinnFort
The very page you link disproves your arguments against gtk. They do indicate that gnome is bloated. That however does not mean that gtk is bloated. Xfce is a gtk based Desktop Evironment and out preformed KDE in all but one of the tests. - JEmerson, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0"But fjleon, I can't just go and change the HTML of sites that I go to regularly and don't use that, such as mlb.com and Newegg."
Greasemonkey/Userscript should let you make the insertion if it's worth the trouble of learning it for you. - generalloy, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1Still no gstreamer??
Gnash is the future. - lezard, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1Why would they use gstreamer ? Thay want it to work, remember ?
- vanden9, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1How would one go about install this on open suse 10.2
- PhinnFort, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1Try an ad-blocker.
- Artz, on 10/11/2007, -1/+0I wonder when will flash get an native GPU acceleration, all those vectors can be accelerated.
- theroyalweman, on 10/11/2007, -8/+6@phjr - firefox doesn't use GTK, it uses XUL - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/XUL
whatever adobe decides to use for flash, be it QT or GTK, it'll be statically linked and included within the flash package - that way, the installation won't need to require that a particular version of a library be present at install/runtime. - chrysrobyn, on 10/11/2007, -4/+1I'm hoping the sound is handled better. I don't know if Flash has trouble with ALSA or GSD, but it won't perform if any other application has sound control. Instead, the whole browser finishes while you figure out what to close / stop. My culprit is usually Notes. Another problem is when two Flash applets make noise simultaneously -- this is often enough to crash Firefox. All on RHEL4, BTW.
- godzillaWax, on 10/11/2007, -11/+7awesome! a new flash player for linux when flash player on windows battles RealPlayer as the buggiest ***** application ever made. I can barely surf the net without flash causing my browser to eat 90% of my processor. The only thing keeping me alive is FlashBlock.
Hooray for ***** ***** programs! Long live flash! - macewan, on 10/11/2007, -5/+1Anyone want to discuss the fact that they updated Flash or the fact that the title of this post is misleading. Linux Beta?
- stalefries, on 10/11/2007, -6/+1Carefully.
*snicker* - phjr, on 10/11/2007, -14/+6Firefox uses GTK, and it is the most popular browser on Linux. No wonder Adobe decided to use this library. Note that it is just impossible to please everyone.
Hopefully someone will make some lightweight Flash implementation, but anyway - I wouldn't call Adobe Flash Plugin resource-intensive. Adobe Reader consumes much more resources - that's really huge! - rieuwa, on 10/11/2007, -20/+1"anti-Linux venom (Silverlight)"
What's wrong with you? -
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