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40 Comments
- dsmx, on 12/15/2007, -4/+19Another step in the right direction.
- activist, on 12/15/2007, -6/+18awesome!!
http://www.binaryfreedom.info - technoredneck, on 12/15/2007, -1/+9@ iroc409 & latrosicarius:
You may never be turned away from the ER, but you'll be turned to them for life paying off medical bills if you don't have the money or health insurance. If people could get their own health insurance without government assistance, they would. Thing is, they can't. The government has a responsibility to care for its citizens.
Taxes do not have to be sky-high to have a universal healthcare system; they aren't in Canada or the UK or Japan. I would gladly pay higher taxes for others to get access to healthcare they otherwise could not afford, because I am not selfish. I don't even care if those others could afford it but choose to purchase other things. *****, I don't even care if those others were rapists, murderers, or cocaine dealers. I would still gladly pay for them to have healthcare.
Healthcare is a basic human right, which means everyone is entitled to it, regardless of who they are, what wrongs they've commited, or whether they choose to pay for it or not. People should not have to choose between healthcare or having other niceties, especially if the upper classes do not. Human rights are for everyone, not just those that are saintly or those that can afford them.
And "socialized medicine" does not stifle innovation or underpay workers. In other countries with universal healthcare, doctors and other healthcare workers are are paid as much or nearly as much as they are elsewhere. The only people that are 'underpaid' are CEOs and business tycoons that have little to do with the healthcare industry other than sucking money from it (money that could be spent on the elusive innovation that anti-universal-healthcare folks speak of).
If you think most of the major innovations in healthcare come from the US, you are very, very mistaken; most of them actually come from other countries with universal healthcare, e.g. most stem-cell research breakthroughs and a damn good number of cancer research breakthroughs. If you would like sources plus more examples, I will gladly find them for you. In exchange, I'd like for you to name just /one/ American-made healthcare innovation, just so I can see that you're not spewing *****. Even if you can, I can assure you that it's not because of capitalism making bigwigs filthy rich with money that could be better spent elsewhere.
And, no, I'm not saying this because I don't have health insurance and think the government is entitled to give me it (though everyone should be entitled to healthcare). I'm fortunate enough to be able to afford health insurance without being dirt poor, but that doesn't mean others can. Regardless, if the government can afford this *****-ass war we're in and all kinds of bells-and-whistles for politicians and Big Business, it certainly can afford to give healthcare to those who need it, i.e. everyone.
Sure, universal healthcare isn't perfect. It's slow and unfair at times, and it can be a bureaucratic nightmare, but it's /better than nothing/. I'd rather have that than no healthcare at all. Those that can afford better will still be able to purchase better.
P.S. I know this is TL;DR, but I'm quite passionate about this issue. - magnusdopus, on 12/15/2007, -2/+10Don't get ahead of yourselves folks, this will never happen in the US. We still are the one industrialized nation without universal healthcare.
- latrosicarius, on 12/15/2007, -1/+5That's great for their taxpayers. I wish the US govt will do the same for us. There are multi-year, multi-million dollar contracts with software companies like MS, Adobe, etc to for huge site-wide licenses, when free-open source software would be a free substitute.
- mazza558, on 12/15/2007, -5/+9Ah, Europe, you're brilliant! Can these folks do no wrong? (Tech-wise)
- MeneerR, on 12/15/2007, -0/+4Yeah, and if we all use opensource that is going to stay that way forever.
The support/productivity bias has _nothing_ to do with say what the majority of the people are currently used to.
Governments are supposed to think long-term.
Perhaps difficult to grasp for you.
Productivity loss and increased support cost for say a year or five for the transitional period, means LITTLE on a scale of say 20-50 years.
That's why its called _policy_ and _governing_, instead of _reacting_ and _ruling_. - MeneerR, on 12/15/2007, -1/+4Well, just the proccess of justifying means they need to study OSS to even make a case against it.
That is, the system maintainers and the developpers. You can safely assume a large portion has no clue about OSS.
They choose the things they choose by default. Making the case, learning about OSS, might just change their minds. Steal their hearts.
It's all decent folks people. They just specialized in different areas. They missed the boat. Let's get them on board. - glory, on 12/15/2007, -0/+3FYI, the language is called Dutch.
.... and yes, MS Word has Dutch spell check. - MeneerR, on 12/15/2007, -1/+4All kids are fanboys. They go with the flow and take it to the extreme. Then they go with another flow. Then they realize they've going all over the place with their opinions, and then they grow up.
Then they grow older and older. They feel like they have made too many bad judgement calls in their life. So they to decide to just stick to those few opinions that made sense their entire life. They turn those into their new core ideas about reality. Now, they've become wise.
Then they die.
With a smile on their face. - MeneerR, on 12/15/2007, -0/+2Why would the government care who 'wins'?
They need a solution that works for them. They are not using technology just because. Its a tool they use.
They need to get familiar with it. That's all. For their productivity it couldn't matter less what _you_ are familiar with.
Secondly, even if it is hard to pick a winner, we still have to try. We can't implement any IT infrastructure without choosing for specific products and technologies.
Also the government is a _huge_ customer. It is not so much that they 'guess' the winner. Their choices have such an impact on the market, that you could say they 'decide' or 'favor' a specific technology, market or company to _become_ the winner. - mckooiker, on 12/15/2007, -0/+2Why does it work so well in so many countries? Why would it not work in US as well? Ok, maybe you're not kicked out of the emergency room, but what humanity is it to send home a person that is dying from a perfectly curable diseasy, but is lacking insurance?
Animals! - bvdeenen, on 12/15/2007, -1/+3Ever been here you *****? Know anything about it?
- tybris, on 12/15/2007, -0/+2Yes. This was the outcome of a discussion on failed government IT projects.
- niallabrown, on 12/15/2007, -1/+3It's true, but I hope they will be strict and not take any *****. After all it costs your government money. I wish ours would do the same.
- luvearth, on 12/15/2007, -3/+4woooohooooooooo!!!!!!!!!!
- MeneerR, on 12/15/2007, -1/+2We actually had universal healthcare and moved _away_ from it. Yes, that's the same country.
Not that its like the US system though. Healthcare is still mandatory and there is quite complete core package that should be offered regulated by the government. So the companies all offer the same cover, but have to compete on price and service.
That is actually typical for Holland. Move away from things that do not work. Move to things that do work. Stop. Reflect. Did it work? It aint no genuisses at the wheel. But at least they are never stubborn. - insideitalian, on 12/15/2007, -2/+3Ok now it is confirmed - The Netherlands is just a country that mirrors Digg for fun.
- MeneerR, on 12/15/2007, -0/+1This is likely the most compelling argument for our (the dutch/netherlands) government.
Government isn't good at spending money. Governemnt shouldn't be a place of exotic technical setups either.
OSS means they are always placing a safe bet. It might not always be the best tool, but it will not bite you in the ass and its cheap. - MeneerR, on 12/15/2007, -1/+2We're just not that much corrupted with corporate pressure. That's all. Most policies here are genuine, well intented, ideas. But they are not brilliant all knowing people. Far from that.
It's just that, when policy is honest. You revert policies that don't work. You try knew things. If a little kid can learn to ride a bike, these simple joe's can learn to run to a country well.
As for an explenation? The whole OSS thing gets explained to most of them by the neighbourhood kid that fixes their computer. Then they talk to the guys from the economic department. They tell them all of the new fortune 500 companies are running on OSS.
So, they place the bet. The wording is funny at moments. Like they don't _completely_ get it. But they know it's important. And they sort of get the idea that common infrastructure should at least be regulated by having open standards. They wouldn't want some company deciding how wide the roads should be. Different signs on different roads controlled by different companies.
They are not _against_ commercial software. But the Government should not be the place where they live on the edge of tech. It's also a place that has a habit of spending money too easily. Forcing them to use free products that reduces the ties with the corporate world is _always_ good for government controlled organisations. - dadotron, on 12/15/2007, -1/+2that is awesome! although Croatia was the first country in Europe to adopt Open Source for pretty much everything including government facilities. But its good to see more countries join up.
- jammrk, on 12/15/2007, -1/+2"We think it's not in the best interest of the wider software market to single out one model for endorsement like this,"
I cant believe a MS Rep would say something like this, given MS history of trying to do just that. How do these people look themselves in the mirror. - keksovkeks, on 03/06/2008, -0/+1http://guidespyware.com/index.php?action=100-anti- ...
- Fergy, on 12/15/2007, -0/+1You make thoughtful comments MeneerR, Could you add me to your friends so I can give you a shout and get in contact? Or give me a shout
Ik geloof dat we dezelfde interesses hebben :) - JQP123, on 12/15/2007, -0/+1"Governments are supposed to think long-term."
Good luck picking long term winners and losers in the technology arena. In 20-50 years, the market will most likely be quite different than it is today. And frankly, I have little to no confidence in government's ability to excel in this area. - MeneerR, on 12/15/2007, -0/+1Why is this modded down?
- willemmulder, on 12/15/2007, -3/+3yeah, and I hope that the "Linuxz suckzz, MSN w00t"-15-year-oldish don't ever get into the government or anything for that matter...
It sometimes scares me that those kids grow up and maybe once represent a part of the decision-making people in my country (The Netherlands, that is, but it goes for any country). - inactive, on 12/15/2007, -4/+4How's Munich coming along?
- Gneisbaard, on 12/15/2007, -1/+1And boy, does it suck!
- MeneerR, on 12/15/2007, -1/+1They don't. The mirrows were all broken in the great chair-throwing-outburst of 2005.
They are now replaced with big posters of Steve Balmer. - syariscrewz, on 06/20/2009, -0/+0nice . love it
free music downloads
http://www.hotsmusic.com/ - mightycbu, on 12/15/2007, -2/+2has to be justified? people will be coming up with all sots of bs reasons not to use OSS.
let's see if they can make it happen.
btw i'm from the Netherlands - iroc409, on 12/15/2007, -4/+2How much more do you personally volunteer to raise your taxes to ensure a public health care system? How much of a detriment to the world will it be when funding for health innovations disappears if the US goes to a public health system? How many Canadians will die because they can no longer come to the US and pay cash for life-dependent surgeries?
- inactive, on 12/15/2007, -6/+4thats freaking awesome
- qwuinc, on 12/15/2007, -6/+3Getting more dense -> http://www.listphile.com/Linux
:-) - momsshizzle, on 12/15/2007, -7/+2No wonder their country is ass backwards.
Linsux. - GiggleStick, on 12/15/2007, -7/+2They'll adopt it, but in 7 years they'll grow tired of it and give it back.
- latrosicarius, on 12/15/2007, -8/+2It's bad that the US has a problem adopting open-source in its federal agencies, but...
WTF does health care have to do with open source software?
People should get their own health insurance either from their employer, or from a 3rd party insurance company. Quit relying on the government for a free dole-out.
You will never be turned away from the emergency room regardless, if you have insurance or not. - brownr21, on 12/15/2007, -8/+1Yeah, save some money up front but pay 5x in productivity and support.
Gotta love how ***** open source is right now. - shaggy25, on 12/15/2007, -15/+1Microsoft Word doesn't have spell check in Netherlandish?
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