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- schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -40/+19Good luck with that, but NBC execs are still having lunch with Microsoft. Wal-mart and the BBC are no exception because they work together. These channels are used to strengthen Microsoft's chokehold on the market and they are being led to believe that DRM is not dead yet.
Save the BBC from Windows DRM!
,----[ Quote ]
| Clearly, shutting out 25% of your audience sits ill with the BBC's
| remit of serving all of its users...
|
| There is no denying that this is an extremely difficult area for
| the BBC, since it must negotiate not one but three minefields -
| those of technology standards, copyright and contract law. But
| there are still things that it could do without turning into a
| global advertisement for Microsoft's flawed DRM approach.
`----
http://www.linuxjournal.com/node/1000183
Corporate Fight Against Open Source
,----[ Quote ]
| Remember during the Dot Com boom when sites used to display which
| browser you should use in order to best utilize their website?
| Quaint, annoying and even a little narrow minded. Those of us who
| have been yearning for a blast from the past will be thrilled to
| learn that Wal-Mart is apparently doing this in the year 2007.
| Wait, it gets better...
`----
http://www.osweekly.com/index.php?option=com_content&task=view&id=2468&Itemid=449- lengau, on 10/12/2007, -5/+13Haven't the Beeb already said that they'll make it all available for Mac and Linux users?
- schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -24/+7No, no real progress on platforms other than Mac OS X. Additonally, the DRM way is defective by design. It was Microsoft's idea. It helps its monopolies.
Microsoft: We Like DRM
http://www.forbes.com/2007/02/08/zune-drm-itunes-tech-media-cx_df_0208bach.html?partner=yahootix
Why Microsoft will fight for DRM
http://km.lqz.ca/blog/tech/microsoft-fight-drm/
Microsoft launches 'PlayReady' DRM system
http://news.com.com/2100-1039_3-6158553.html?part=rss&tag=2547-1_3-0-20&subj=news
Golden Rant : Microsoft DRM's gone too far
http://securityblog.itproportal.com/?p=712
The Longest Suicide Note in History
http://blogs.pcworld.co.nz/pcworld/tux-love/2007/01/the_longest_suicide_note_in_hi.html
DRM in Windows Vista
http://www.schneier.com/blog/archives/2007/02/drm_in_windows.html - chubbstar, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18mtv.ca did this too. windows only. to quote:
"Detecting OS...
We're Sorry!
In order to offer a broad selection of full-length music videos on-demand and free of charge, MTV Overdrive uses Windows Digital Rights Management (DRM) to protect videos from unauthorized re-distribution.
Unfortunately, Microsoft's Windows Media Player Plug-in for Unix does not support Windows DRM. If DRM support becomes available, MTV will develop a version of MTV Overdrive that works for your operating system." - Redemption289, on 10/12/2007, -23/+4Schestowitz
No real progress on anything other than mac? Are you joking
Linux has continued to innovate and optimize throughout its lifetime. Just because the optimization doesn't come in 1 big expensive package every 4 years doesn't mean it isn't there. Kernel updates as well as software updates across the board are available ALL the time, and I don't need to upgrade my entire system to get them. Additionally, the only "progress" on Mac OS X are concepts they stole from other companies. If you are measuring progress in terms of eye candy, then Mac OS X wins hands down. But if that is your idea of progress then... wow. There are so many useful innovations coming from linux and the open source community that it is definitely unfair to say that Mac OS X is the only one making progress - NJHewitt, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21redemption, the point wasn't that Linux developers aren't innovating, no-one said that, it's that the media companies are even slower to offer support to Linux users than to Mac users.
- Dipster, on 10/12/2007, -14/+725%? Since when do Linux users constitute 25%? Not to fan the Linux vs Microsoft flames, but Microsoft users are the "low hanging fruit" when it comes to market share.
- NJHewitt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12dipster, apparently the BBC's own research showed that only 75% would be using Windows Media Player 10.
- Rhino2, on 10/12/2007, -16/+4
oh noes! The entire Centrino Linux community of 9 users are going to be pissed!
I hope they don't write an angry email!
OMG!! You're in for it now NBC! Perpare to feel the wrath of 9 angry nerds. - Dude622, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Well, I'm using a laptop with a Centrino Duo with Ubuntu. I just watched an episode of Heroes with it and everything works fine. The one link that this site offers doesn't work for me, but I really don't want to watch the crappy SNL episodes that are being made today, so I don't have anything to complain about.
- lengau, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@scheistowitz - Here's the story that I was talking about
http://www.digg.com/linux_unix/BBC_video_downloads_will_WILL_be_REQUIRED_to_work_with_Linux_Macs - schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3@ Redemption289: you misunderstood my message, lacking context. I was referring to the Beeb's progress, not Linux, which is making quicker progress than any other platform.
@ lengau: yes, I am aware of this and I have been following the news on this matter very closely. At present, it just looks nice on paper, but there has been no progress. Another British television channel, ITV, has been infected by the same disease. That happened last week. These executives must realise that they are being manipulated into thinking that DRM will survive, all for the wrong reasons (see my links about DRM as means of platform and vendor lockin). It will only make them appear like technological dinosaurs because the rental-based acquisition paradigm for media will *never* truly take off. Even Mr. Jobs confirms this, but it requires persuation. At the FSF we need his support as he's the most influential figure when it comes to these matters. - lengau, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1What's the British form of the EFF? can we get their help?
- st00ner, on 10/12/2007, -10/+28Lol @ NBC. Trash trash trash... just like most TV. You dont need the brainwashing!
- lieutenantmudd, on 10/12/2007, -5/+26No *****, NBC makes you watch a 30 second commercial to see a PREVIEW of a show. I am essentially going out of my way to watch an advertsement, and they make me watch a commercial before I get to watch their other commerical.
- rac3r5, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2here in Canada, we can't watch any NBC videos at all. I tried watching a Heroes online, but it is not offered in my region.. WTH.. even thought we get Heroes here on local basic cable television.
- jeffgtr, on 10/12/2007, -18/+28No suprise since it's Microsoft NBC (MSNBC) of course they are going to block out anyone but windows and IE users. This is how Microsoft does business, not be innovation but by strong arming. If you don't like it the best thing to do is to not watch NBC. Emailing them is going to be a big waste of your time.
- estvir, on 10/12/2007, -18/+6Or god forbid Linux users aren't a large enough group to bother supporting ? Nope, it's some big evil conspiracy !
Quick, tighten your tin foil ! - hdtvdust, on 10/12/2007, -16/+5Microsoft is not strong arming GE you ***** idiot.
- thecatisdead, on 10/12/2007, -15/+7to be fair, microsoft *does* throw pretty awesome halo parties
- venom8599, on 10/12/2007, -1/+14NBC isn't collectively called MSNBC. NBC is NBC Universal, ever since they merged with Universal a while back (leading most importantly to the "Walker Texas Ranger lever" on Conan.) MSNBC is a joint venture between the two companies. Other than that, they've got nothing to do with each other.
- jetpig, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11NBC is owned by GE. there's NO WAY that MS has the ability strongarm GE, the second largest company IN THE WORLD.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_assets_owned_by_General_Electric
for the full list of what they own. - lukee, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3@jetpig: Wikipedia's list is inaccurate, and fails to mention that most of NBC Universal is owned by the Sheinhardt Wig Company.
- biochem, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@lukee
actually they r right. NBC is owned by GE. - cliffzdude, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"No suprise since it's Microsoft NBC (MSNBC) of course they are going to block out anyone but windows and IE users."
*****.
As previously stated, NBC is owned by GE, Microsoft doesn't strong-arm GE. As also previously stated, most of the videos work fine on Linux.
Bull. *****. - vguard, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1But WHO actually owns GE, MSNBC, NBC and Microsoft....?
GE makes Nukes. "We light up the World!"
NBC spreads BS (Nothing But Crap)
Microsoft spys on you and generally make people miserable. (We're looking in your Windows! Hope nobody notices the swastika in our logo,)
Who IS this mysterious evil overlord?
???
- estvir, on 10/12/2007, -18/+6Or god forbid Linux users aren't a large enough group to bother supporting ? Nope, it's some big evil conspiracy !
- caffeinated, on 10/12/2007, -18/+7Cry me a river.
- Sfenton, on 10/12/2007, -15/+5Who watches or visits NBC anyway? The only time I ever tune into NBC is when Conan O'brien is on, and that's it.
- jgmachine, on 10/12/2007, -8/+12Some of the best stuff on TV right now if you ask me... Heroes, My Name is Earl, The Office, Scrubs, SNL...
- ckSubs, on 10/12/2007, -4/+0Friday Night Lights...
- FZero68, on 10/12/2007, -10/+3Theres a reason why linux users shouldn't watch snl episodes, because snl is awful.
- gulpy, on 10/12/2007, -8/+0BLASPHEMER!
- Xeth, on 10/12/2007, -3/+33Wait, how is this worse than NBC "screwing" people who don't have centrino or viiv processors?
- acceptab1euname, on 10/12/2007, -13/+16It's not. I call this "Linux Entitlement Syndrome" - it causes the users of a non-mainstream desktop OS (Just watch as I get buried into oblivion for pointing this out) to expect the same treatment as a mainstream group worth the time, effort, and expense of supporting. Face it, Windows+IE is the dominant combination of desktop OS/web browser - that's what's cheapest and easiest to support, and US businesses seem to love cheap and easy.
- Rhino2, on 10/12/2007, -13/+10@acceptab1euname,
But... but...it's linux and it's better and NBC should PAY their development staff to support ALL distrubations. All 278 differant distrubations!
It's no excuse!
It would be like having McDonalds menus only avaiable in english and spanish and not having Jet Fuel avaiable at EVERY gas station.
My car only takes Jet Fuel and I only read in Latin! - BlackAdderIII, on 10/12/2007, -7/+5"""It's not. I call this "Linux Entitlement Syndrome" - it causes the users of a non-mainstream desktop OS (Just watch as I get buried into oblivion for pointing this out)"""
No, I expect you'll get dugg down for being an idiot.
You do not get to say what the Linux user is entitled to, in this case the money they pay for hardware and services says what they're entitled to.
People have a right to expect what they pay their greenbacks for, end of story. - AlexFerny, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11It would take no extra effort for NBC to support Linux, or for that matter any other OS - all they have to do is release the media as simple XVid/x264/DivX/whatever other decent codec streams/files for download - this way all OSes will work!
- scootinger, on 10/12/2007, -5/+5Xeth, they aren't screwing people! It's because your computer can't handle it! You know, because the Intel chipset that's required to make your PC Centrino/Viiv makes ALL the difference!
- AlexFerny, on 10/12/2007, -7/+2What about if you are using C2D, what you cant view thier stuff? Even though C2D is 1000 times better than Centrino P4 based stuff?
- kindrobot, on 10/12/2007, -5/+4Nah. it's not really that complicated, folks. It's more like not allowing you to have gas that's CALLED "super easy jet fuel (c)" unless you put in a special , useless, non-fuctioning gas cap filter with a special sticker that says "only for use with super easy jet fuel (c)" and is auto-detected at gas stations that only sell that brand of fuel. And the fuel offers you no advantage in efficiency or price and prevents you from using other fuel. (and it's not jet fuel)
- krinn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4@acceptab1euname: This is not about a perception of some sort of "Linux entitlement", it's just NBC being dumbasses.
- mumblyjoe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"...it's just NBC being dumbasses."
Amen. The dumb-asses pages are COVERED with ***** Macromedia Flash crap too. They're major dumb-asses.
- inukki, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4I can't rewatch Heroes, when I had missed the last episode from April 30th because I happen to be in Canada. my ip address is not accepted.
NBC website is a poster boy for what's to come in the future with Linux and such
Sony is not the only executive holier and "knowingier" than you consumers are stupid attitude
Others will come and make their stand and Linux will be hurt
That's what I think, but It's not like my instincts have never helped me "predict" the future anyways
ps I still had not tried using proxy servers to bypass my Canadians are rejected for being Canadian thing - mykos, on 10/12/2007, -8/+3Important story of the century! Or not.
If I were handicapped, I might be miffed that a public building isn't handicap-accessible. But sheesh...NBC videos? Should have a big blue-and-white sign with a wheelchair that says "Linux Accessible"? You'd think with all the whining linux users would come up with a new /wrists switch or something for when websites aren't Linux accessible. - origclubsoda, on 10/12/2007, -9/+5So what. What about Apple users!?
- TerekKincaid, on 10/12/2007, -11/+7NBC? As in parent of MSNBC? Don't be surprised if it doesn't work on a rival. It's called "good business sense". Don't bitch when you put your money on the wrong horse.
- chicken101, on 10/12/2007, -5/+20Why the ***** would I need an Intel viiv processor to watch a video? Does it have something to do with DRM?
- Satertek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+15No its marketing. Intel paid NBC to only have them shown to people with their CPU.
- SPECOPS, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2What's ironic is, those who don't have the chips/OS/etc. will just download the content from other places, commercial free.
I guess, one day the "big guys" will finally hire someone who understands how to market properly on the internet. Until then, hello Usenet and Torrents. - Grayfox777, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It's not just marketing, it's *****, gimmicky marketing.
- Wyzard, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Viiv isn't a special type of processor. Neither is Centrino. They're just marketing names that refer to hardware that most PCs have anyway.
If you have a Centrino laptop, all that means is that you have a laptop with an Intel processor, Intel video card, and Intel wireless card. It doesn't mean your computer has any special Centrino-specific capabilities, and it has nothing to do with watching video. Even if your laptop wasn't branded "Centrino", it'd still have a processor, video card, and probably a wireless card; they just might not be made by Intel, that's all.
Viiv might be related because it mandates DRM support, but it's not some special Viiv-specific DRM; non-Viiv systems can do anything Viiv systems can.
NBC's screw-up here is mis-stating the system requirements for their video download service, citing unrelated hardware features rather than the software that's needed.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Centrino
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Viiv
- nullview, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5Who cares? They are almost as irrelevant as the horse and buggy, we can get all the news we need from other sources, which are much less beholden to the corporate ladder. These guys keep on passing us nails to pound into the coffin.
- weebit, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3A lot of your NBC affiliated websites do this.
- venom8599, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6A lot of sites on the Internet do this, not just NBC sites.
- GiantLeap, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8For those of you that complain that "you can't watch NBC episodes in X country" -- you are aware that in many cases NBC Universal does not produce the show and therefore must comply with whatever licensing agreements are in place with each territory as per the company producing the show? That is how the TV industry works... NBCU for example produces House but it airs on Fox.
- xerus, on 10/12/2007, -15/+22Oh no! What are all 12 of you going to do?
- chriskzoo, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9I think they already have plans: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CPai43Ck-2U
- Rhino2, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4
Lighting Bolt - Lighting Bolt - Lighting Bolt - Lighting Bolt - Lighting Bolt
Take that NBC! Fear the Nerds.
- Langford, on 10/12/2007, -7/+15Supporting only client configuration shows a tragic amount of incompetence. Whoever made that decision doesn't deserve their job. Have they been living in a cave?
- dasunst3r, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10While we're at it, I'm sure we have a few angry Celeron, P4, and AMD users out there. Let's fight the battle for treating processors equally first.
- SirBotchness, on 10/12/2007, -12/+5oh darn, all 10 people who have linux on centrino laptops.
- Zap2, on 10/12/2007, -11/+4Screw you NBC! You don't even have any good show any way!!
Linux and OS X own Windows...and IE is the worst browser EVER. - Aux88, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3Yeah, all of those linux users should be subjugated to those lousy SNL episodes like the rest of us!
- ericdano, on 10/12/2007, -10/+6So the three of you who have Centrinos are upset? Understandable.....
- foleymon, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1damn nappy headed admins
- bradmoreland, on 10/12/2007, -5/+3OH NOES! If only there were some other source to get TV shows on the intertubes...
- MasterDwarf, on 10/12/2007, -2/+6I've watched Heroes from their site, no problem. I am using ubuntu feisty and mplayer.
- onTheJDAR, on 10/12/2007, -5/+1*****. I watch a lot of NBC using Firefox, not IE. Did anyone here try that before posting "OMG M$ suxors."
I think NBC and ABC should be commended for allowing (most of) their content to be viewed freely and legally. So a huge multinational corporations that got its start in radio is a little slow to add support to some of the less popular OS's. No surprises there. The entire business model has shifted as a result of the internet, give them some time to adapt.
Also, Heroes, Scrubs, My Name is Earl, The Office, 30 Rock, The Black Donnelys, and The Knights of Prosperity are all decent shows, but I usually only watch 2-4 hours of TV a week, so I miss most of them. - kindrobot, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I purchased a CD recently with what they call "bonus content" online. Tried to get it to work, but it required IE and then required DRM. I e-mailed them, explained that I would not be allowing any of that and that I wanted an alternate route to the content. They never even replied. So I found it somewhere, ripped. That's the answer to this little issue. Give 'em a chance and then go find it somewhere if they won't work with you. Nothing on the CD said anything about requiring installation of certain software.
- hobophobe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5In most if not all cases there are workarounds available to view the content. They are usually annoying to use, but at the same time the content itself in its presented form (usually some streaming flash player with mandatory advertisements) is at least as annoying.
The workarounds range from alternate user agent from the browser (eg for the MSNBC debates I had to make my user agent Firefox on Mac OSX) to running either Firefox or IE through wine.
Personally I'm as much offended by the format of the content as by the need to take extra measures to get to it. The only thing that causes either is the greed of the company that leads them to treat customers as thieves (an all-too-familiar trend in modern entertainment and software).
And that's the funny thing: if you pirate the content you get no hassle or ads. If you access it legitimately you get hassles/advertisements/fees. These corporations need to rethink their business models as they are the ones that are harming their own bottom lines. That's not only stupid, but it violates their responsibility to their shareholders.- AlexFerny, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3Yer but hunting down pirates and paying MPAA money so that the MPAA can harrass these pirates and release crappy public statements makes alot more business sense than to actually not screw the end user.
- hobophobe, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Look at history and you see a trend whereby firms (be they traditional corporations, individuals, governments, whatever) that undertake repressive actions on the market (again, be it traditional commerce or free exchange of ideas, etc.) and although it takes time they eventually find themselves holding the bag.
That's why Youtube exists. That's why bittorrent exists. That's the place where these alternatives spring from: the status quo is inferior and so long as they are unwilling to change the market has vacuums. The vacuums get filled. The lowest common denominator will collapse (ie, traditional media). The alternatives become the new status quo.
So no, it's not good business sense. It's driven by lawyers and DRM vendors and the like. They stand to make a lot of money off of the fear of the media conglomerates of losing money.
- nubnub, on 10/12/2007, -5/+2Special Menu -> Disguise -> Enemy -> Windows XP
- mjw2025, on 10/12/2007, -6/+3Come on folks. You use linux and now expect everyone to accomodate you? Web site owners can do whatever they want just as you use a operating system that you believe is so wonderful. You made the choice so live with it and quit bitching.
- ThomasTuttle, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Hey, I submitted this, and I just wanted to respond to a few recurring comments.
"blah blah blah all nine/ten/twelve/etc... Linux Centrino users" Um, Centrino's got pretty good market share these days. Pretty much any Intel laptop that isn't a Celeron piece of crap is Centrino-branded, so I'd guess 25-50% of Linux laptops are Centrino. That's not insignificant, but no, it's not significant either. The point is that they shouldn't lock anyone out -- they should just offer downloads, period. And if you read the article, you'll see that they obviously didn't plan the site very well, because it fails miserably rather than saying "You need to be running IE on Windows".
"What about if you are using C2D, what you cant view thier stuff? Even though C2D is 1000 times better than Centrino P4 based stuff?" Er, Centrino = Pentium M (*not* Pentium 4 M) or Core Duo or Core 2 Duo + Intel chipset/graphics + Intel wireless. My Intel Centrino Duo laptop has an Intel Core 2 Duo T7200 processor.
"Who cares?"/"SNL sucks, why bother?" Not the kind of attitude you should have if you ever want Joe Randomperson to use Linux on the desktop. And SNL is funny sometimes, especially the iPod spoofs.
"The ads suck." I agree. Too bad NBC can't even get me to watch them.- AlexFerny, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Shows me and my knowledge of Intel branding :P
I always assumed Centrino was just P4M / PM
AMD ftw!
- AlexFerny, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Shows me and my knowledge of Intel branding :P
- Pestilence, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1If NBC actually produces anything that's worth stealing, just steal it. Let them learn the hard way that DRM is a waste of time and effort.
- kindrobot, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1It's not stealing. When you download SNL, NBC still owns SNL.
- jsusanka, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4CNN does the same sxxx - why doesn't the world just use ogg and then anybody on any platform will will be able to listen/see everything.
and guess what - no patent ransom to pay and in my opinion looks and sounds better than those proprietary formats.
microsoft's next step is to use drm and the dmca to lock people in. - HanSolo69, on 10/12/2007, -4/+2uumm....seriously, not NBC's problem.
- colincornaby, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2"NBC offers extra videos and content for Viiv and Centrino PC users... but someone at NBC thinks that "Centrino" means "Centrino running Windows and IE," even though Intel explicitly *supports* Linux on Centrino laptops! Linux users, demand equal access to content -- there's no reason we shouldn't get to see those SNL episodes, too!"
Get in line behind the Mac users. - blaynew, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2To me, what's irritating about this is that there are plenty of standard formats they could use to release this. The problem isn't a lack of compatible alternatives. They choose to use a proprietary format that only works on Windows. The reason is probably just DRM... whatever good that does for them, considering this is probably already on The Pirate Bay, that is, if their "extra content" is worth anything at all.
- msoule, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Maybe you never heard of The Pirate Bay? Full-length, commercial-free, Hi-Def episodes of everything I care to watch on any platform I choose.
- Grayfox777, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3DRM needs to die. Now.
- nonconformist, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Had the same thing happen here in Australia with the ABC's web site. It was Internet Explorer only for video content. I emailed them and they replied with something to the effect of "You need Windows Media Player because of the special content" - which I felt was an uninformed lie.
So I re-wrote some simple code that allowed Firefox users like me to view the videos without dramas, and emailed it to them as proof that the real reason they were forcing IE was because of slack web development practices. I never got a reply, but within a few months videos were working on Firefox :-) - Xizer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1So uhh...wouldn't Linux users just grab a scene cap of Saturday Night Live?
How is this a problem?
If you're using Linux, you should at least know how to use torrents. - takatsuki06, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1The Chinese are invading!
- JoeDiggsIt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1When is going to erach the point where Microsfoft acquires Mozilla and starts putting Firefox on their OS?
- astrotrain, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Its a one tracked HTML world for Corporate Companies, they think Microsoft is the only OS and application provider in the world. If you don't have Microsoft and its products, your not hip.
Therefore, they program all their web sites to work nicely with Microsoft, so nicely, they use Microsoft Word or Front Page to edit the page (and to think some companies wonder why their web pages take so much room!).
NBC, CBS, ABC... not worth letting your guard down running IE to view a few old episodes of TV shows directly from their site, there are other ways to get your old show fix. Remember IE does not warn you if someone or some site tries to install crap on your system without your knowledge. - yacks, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0hmm.. no problem for me viewng these NBC videos.. and i'm using a AMD 64 x2 using Firefox on Sabayon linux..
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