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137 Comments
- neko, on 05/15/2008, -29/+105do not want.
- Senn, on 05/15/2008, -16/+81“not quite Windows Live but still cool”
Since when was Windows Live cool?
Also GTFO of my computer, Microsoft. - manstein01, on 05/15/2008, -8/+47Oh, Microsoft will support this project....until Silverlight becomes popular. Then they will release version 2.0...which will only support a new set of features on the Windows version, as they are tied to Internet Explorer API's. Then they will lose interest in other versions all together, so that version 3.0 is Windows only.
- jestin, on 05/15/2008, -19/+54The haters sure seem to be out in numbers on this forum. Seriously, what is wrong with an open source implementation of something that may one day become a common web API? While Silverlight might not be anyone's first choice for web app development, at least *nix users won't be left in the cold if it becomes big. Thank you Miguel and the Mono team for all the hard work.
- TicoTico, on 05/15/2008, -3/+32Java:
No licenses fee for VM and development environment, robust compiler and VM, cross-platform, open source mostly, robust libraries implemented for nearly all open standards and also it's way too cool. Hahahaha
No hate for MS products, it is just that when you are making software solutions for a living you need to choose wisely and get away from fees, hidden charges and hidden dependencies from other MS products. - TicoTico, on 05/15/2008, -9/+34It goes like this
.NET = MS Java
Silverlight = MS Flash
Besides
Mono = Linux .NET
Moonlight = Linux Silverlight
So, MS is just fragmenting the market, it is not interested in the customers needs but in ripping them off. - SnowCrashv5, on 05/15/2008, -27/+45This will never be on my box. Ever. Same goes for Mono. I may love suse, but my first order of business usually is uninstalling mono. Miguel can take his crap and leave as far as i'm concerned.
- inactive, on 08/26/2008, -3/+211. Everyone is so used to Microsoft being the absolute incarnation of evil (THINK: America's perception of the Soviet Union) that they can't accept that anything originating from them could ever be beneficial, even if it's open source (yes, I know Microsoft had no part in developing Mono, and I'm not trying to claim so).
2. If Mono goes into widespread usage but continues to follow .NET and never goes in any other directions, then Mono, and in a sense an aspect of Linux (and BSD, etc.), will always be behind Windows in that one respect, which would be intolerable.
3. That whole patent issue (no one wants to be sued by Microsoft).
4. There are already more established, more open technologies, and most think there's no need to reinvent the wheel. - Lunarbunny, on 05/15/2008, -5/+24Forgive me for asking, but why is everybody so intent on removing Mono?
- GMorgan, on 05/15/2008, -2/+19Adobe opening the Flash player specification is a start and might help us resist Silverlight. I'll still take an open Silverlight implementation over a closed Flash implementation.
- enri, on 05/15/2008, -0/+16Why should the open source community invest their time expanding a proprietary platform?
- Ossuary, on 05/15/2008, -6/+22I really really really hope Silverlight flops, but the way Redmond is sneaking it into everything they can means it will probably be stuck. Of course, the same could be said for "Plays For Sure"...
- mossblaser, on 05/15/2008, -2/+17Yes, though to be honest I'd rather see silver light nipped in the bud rather than become common, after all does anyone seriously thing microsoft will so much as hint at the specifications to the mono developers if it takes off?
- facereplacer, on 05/15/2008, -3/+19I just wonder why Microsoft needs to be Flash now. Like, Flash is doing fine. Please don't make me download more ***** plugins, especially awful MS stuff.
- ruiacp, on 05/15/2008, -7/+22In Debian or based distributions, like Ubuntu, Mint, etc...
"sudo apt-get remove mono-core" - TicoTico, on 05/15/2008, -2/+16Planned obsolesce AND closed source as a weapon for monopolic market control
- inactive, on 05/15/2008, -1/+13It will go closed as soon as everyone uses it.
Hey you wanna know what would be a good idea? If MS would suck it up and make their browser support all of those open source solutions for this kind of thing that have been around much longer. Like, oh, I don't know, SVG, Ogg Theora+Vorbis... - fotoman, on 05/15/2008, -10/+22I am definitely NOT a MS fan, but I will say that the mono project works pretty well. 4 years ago I was doing some tech work for a company where the other 2 developers on my team built the management console application on windos boxes with .NET and we deployed it on linux boxes and mono and it worked 99% without modification.
Personally I like my websites to require NO plugins, but unfortunately that isn't going to happen. The more projects out there to support the various technologies without being tied to 1 particular vendor the better if you ask me. Imagine if your favorite site went with silverlight? You'd either ditch the site, or begrudge them and install a plugin; wouldn't it be nice if said plugin were available for you? Just saying ;) - mohtasham, on 05/15/2008, -3/+14By making such ***** Microsoft is going to destroy internet again. I hate going to websites that don't support linux. This ***** is going to increase the number of such websites.
- PatrickBrown, on 05/15/2008, -0/+10If you haven't tried it for Linux yet then be prepared to be disappointed.
Remember, MS only offers token support for other operating systems - it really has very little interest in being cross platform. - n0odles, on 05/15/2008, -26/+35Vomit.
- ldog, on 05/15/2008, -20/+31For anyone that is giving Fedora a spin:
After installing, be sure to run:
"yum remove mono-core" - possiblyneil, on 05/15/2008, -12/+21Moonlight? It might be a bit more appealing if it was Moonshine, but then again could it ever be appealing?
- daftman, on 05/15/2008, -1/+9> Seriously, what is wrong with an open source implementation of something that may one day become a common web API
Embrace Extend Extinguish
Since when has any Microsoft API/Format is common and easily implementable by all parties? Moonlight, Mono is nothing but a playing catch up to Microsoft. There's absolute NOTHING to prevent Microsoft from stopping support to the Mono and the Moonlight team.
You are asking the public to place a lot of trust in a company that is known for killing off its own partners
> While Silverlight might not be anyone's first choice for web app development, at least *nix users won't be left in the cold if it becomes big.
The only way for Silverlight to become big is if Microsoft use their OS advantage and push it out to people. Adobe is opening up Flash, and Adobe Air. There are also JavaFx by Sun. Most people already know flash. So it is very unlikely Silverlight/Moonlight will succeed solely on it's own technical merits
>Thank you Miguel and the Mono team for all the hard work.
Miguel is nothing but a Microsoft shill paid to work at Novell. He even admitted to being wrong to support OOXML. I feel sad for the Mono team who waste effort on developing something that is always going to be second rate to Microsoft's solution. - ruiacp, on 05/15/2008, -16/+24Low quality with low acceptance patent bait.
- mvent2, on 05/16/2008, -0/+8Ask Miguel. He's the one so adamant about adopting Microsoft technologies. Most people want to stay away from anything he does.
- ldog, on 05/15/2008, -3/+11because the few megs of space you get back are more valuable than mono and the apps that have it as a dependency
- LinuxGalore, on 05/16/2008, -0/+7After years of seeing Microsoft offer so called free and open tools then further down the road breaking those same tools then putting restrictions (cough patents) on them ie Windows only. Anyone getting on board now and them complain further down the road deserve the "SUCKER" sticker that gets sapped on their forehead.
- stainsby, on 05/15/2008, -0/+7... "But they were all of them deceived, for another patent was made. In the land of Microsoft, in the fires of MS Windows...the Dark Lord Gates forged in secret a Master Patent...to control all others. And into this Patent he poured his cruelty, his malice...and his will to dominate all computers. One Patent to rule them all." ...
- HonoredMule, on 05/15/2008, -0/+7Oh hi, welcome to the internet.
A little reading will help bring you up to speed: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_technology
You should probably study it all at some point, but for the purpose of this conversation, just jump right on in at about 1975.
Or if you would rather work backwards, just do a little research on OOXML...the fastest "uninvented format -> open standard -> bait-and-switch/vendor-locked closed format" cycle to date.
Cheers. - mossblaser, on 05/15/2008, -1/+8Because flash is developed with a non-microsoft program and is well supported on all platforms. Microsoft wants to keep control and I wouldn't be surprised if the token mac support (I say token as it means they can slap cross platform in their marketing) disapeared as well as cooperation with the mono devs.
- sirhomer, on 05/15/2008, -1/+7XAML is not an open standard.
- laelfrog, on 05/15/2008, -6/+15You can't compare .NET to the Java Language. A closer(but not exact) comparison would be to compare .NET to the JVM and assorted Languages. The JVM (Virtual machine that runs Java http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Java_Virtual_Machine) also will do Ruby (JRuby), Python (Jython), Common Lisp, Groovy and Scala.
As a Developer, I've recently worked with C#, VB, Java, Groovy/Grails, ActionScript, etc. and I can definitely say that my favorite has been Groovy, which runs on the Java Virtual Machine on Mac OSX, Linux and Windows.
Please do not promote this type of FUD. - huertanix, on 05/15/2008, -8/+14As a C# developer and Linux sysadmin, I welcome our new Mono Project overlords.
- sirhomer, on 05/15/2008, -2/+8OpenOffice.org is written in C++
- mudfly, on 05/15/2008, -0/+5since when do you consider the Digg community, "The Linux Community" usually developers don't have time to waste reading comments on Digg.
- inactive, on 05/15/2008, -16/+22Do not ***** want! I will NEVER EVER download anything that's got to do with Silverlight. Not only that, I will make sure everyone I know, do the same. Why so? For the pain IE6 has caused me. ***** you MSFT, consider this my revenge. Oh and by the way, I am a Flex/Flash developer too. And a good one at that. Boooo!
- Koppie, on 05/15/2008, -1/+6I'd digg Moonshine.
- patm1987, on 05/15/2008, -12/+18Although I can see where the hostility comes from, don't downplay mono/moonlight. .NET has made my life as a developer much easier. I generally make game/game engines for small scale projects, which I write almost exclusively in c/c++ (I left inline asm ages ago). I normally build these engines so they can be either compiled and executed from an entirely native environment or built into a mixed-mode dll which is accessible from .NET/CLR languages. Although the final project may not contain any managed code at all, I can build highly robust in-game editors and debuggers that help streamline content development.
The mono project is awesome since I am again free from my normal platform restrictions using .NET. The Moonlight project is even more interesting since it both competes with adobe's flash platform and lets me develop web based applications again for the first time since abandoning Java. With mono I can program in almost any language I want as well as interface with entirely native code with little to no effort on almost any platform (c/c++ is normally platform independent from the source perspective, you just have to recompile for each platform) as well as work with an assortment of languages that are aware of mono. So, although I prefer to program in c/c++/c# I can work with developers who prefer visual basic, python, or ruby as long as I maintain good documentation about what my dll does.
I'm sorry for the long wordy response, but I don't see how anything that makes developer's lives easier should be so harshly brushed aside. Even though it has Microsoft's backing developer's are what makes any platform great. If you make the lives of developers harder then your platform of choice will suffer be it Linux, BSD, Plan 9, Windows, or Solaris. - inactive, on 05/15/2008, -0/+5Flash is nice. Adblock Plus is for destroying ads.
Look, streaming content is done best with Flash these days. So stop your whining, get a computer that isn't slower than your neighbors piece of ***** 2 year old Dell, and accept the fact that Java and .NET aren't as good as the marketing teams from their respective owners make it out to be.
What the ***** do you expect them to do, use WMV10 instead? Don't even get me started on Java, 6 seconds for just loading the plugin is too much.
So flash isn't efficient, you're trying to tell me Java and .NET is? PLEASE! That's a load of *****. - sirhomer, on 05/15/2008, -1/+5You could have taken the high route instead but you decided to ***** all over Java instead. What makes you any different? Your mom thinks your special?
Becareful when you are trying to make a point about FUD to not spread it yourself. - anshuman, on 05/15/2008, -1/+5Installed F9 by livecd and
=========================
[root@Fedora9 ~]# rpm -qa | grep mono
[root@Fedora9 ~]#
=========================
Job well done :D - inactive, on 05/15/2008, -1/+5I agree with him. I'm also a developer.
The community needs to Shut The ***** Up and start listening to people who know worth a damn about these things. - TicoTico, on 05/15/2008, -1/+5Go ahead use it, experiment with it, join the Moonlight community and have fun. It's a great way to expand your programming skills.
But personally I won't use it in any of my commercial applications unless a customer explicitly ask for it, and even so I'd try to persuade him of using a open source/open standard/cross-platform/robust solution - HonoredMule, on 05/15/2008, -1/+5Do you even know what an open standard is? Have you even read the ***** you are promoting with that link? There is absolutely nothing in OSP that prevents Microsoft from doing the exact same thing they always do--publish new/ripped-off tech, make grand promises to get it out the door and everyone to adopt it, then alter the spec in future releases without publishing the changes.
It doesn't make the slightest ***** difference if Microsoft can't sue the companies that reverse-engineer their tech (a clue--they never had legal grounds or relevant patents for such suits to succeed anyway, which is why WINE, OOo, and countless other projects that engage in MS reverse-engineering have flourished without OSP). End users and developers will still be stuck using technology that everyone promoted yet suddenly, as of version n+1, only MS can provide, and only WILL provide inside a completely closed MS environment (and screw you, Linux, Mac, Solaris, BSD, PalmOS, Android, OpenGL, Firefox, Opera, OOo, and every other MS-competing product on the planet.........).
Now I'm not saying saying MS has to be stopped from behaving this way, but I'd be dumb as a brick if I just let them do it to /me/ by adopting new MS tech just because it looks useful or interesting now--and it sure would be nice if all the dumb bricks around me would stop making proprietary tech "industry" standards so I have to use the MS products built around them whether I want to or not. If we stopped expecting MS to assimilate everything, we'd see a whole world full of bright developers capable of coexisting and producing quality products that everyone can use indiscriminately.
And finally, regarding OOXML...to which OOXML are you referring? The broken, dysfunctional spec they published as an open standard, or the completely undocumented spec they and consequently all their clients use, which can only be properly handled by MS products and must be reverse-engineered like everything else MS does? - Culyt, on 05/16/2008, -0/+3If SilverLight was to ever take off it would be a matter of years before MS started to add patented technologies into the core components (if there isn't already) and removed the WMV Linux codec support. They would add a whole bunch of standards to SilverLight and make sure as few as possible get back into MoonLight.
Suddenly Linux users are left without being able to browse a large chunks of the web because they use some new function for text alignment/animation or view streaming videos because the codecs been pulled. - inactive, on 08/26/2008, -2/+5*aptitude (It also removes dependencies, and people really should get in the habit of using aptitude instead of apt-*, which wouldn't be a problem in the first place if people/online guides didn't instruct to use apt-get so often.)
- laelfrog, on 05/15/2008, -4/+10no .NET does not always win over Java
- Kamujin, on 05/15/2008, -35/+39.NET/Mono > Java.
Hate all you want. It's true.
Feel free to digg me down now. - xqb4dpx, on 05/16/2008, -0/+3C# is cool and all, but it needs to be native (which is impossible)
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