What is Digg?77 Comments
- 4321234, on 04/13/2008, -3/+55I see what you did there.
- Wiini, on 04/13/2008, -13/+32My biggest problem with comments existing, and comments sure to come on this Digg, is that *some linux whores seem to think that linux is perfect... and they're afraid to admit that until things like this (Note, 35 different ways to install software... many of them more difficult than doubleclicking an installer, like windows or mac) are holding the OS back.
Listen up: The sooner you get over your precious mothering of Linux, give it some balls and realize a lot of the things you 'love' are what is preventing it from ever going real main stream, the sooner mainstream will happen. Most end users, yes, even computer 'pro's' don't want to compile their drivers before installation all the time. It gets old. All that ***** that makes linux hard-core 1337 haxor is in the end, what makes it complicated and timeconsuming.
I work in the software development industry, before that, I was a system builder. I have worked in Windows and Linux, and am proficent at both. I am not an "expert" and there are lot of 1337 hax0rs much better than me. But I am a software developer, I can program, and work with my hardware. It's not a pissing match, so if you want to get into one by replying to my thread, forget it, you win. The point is, I know what I'm doing, and am stronger in the Personal Computer arena than the average Joe... and I hate using linux because it lacks standards and consistency.
Yes, I love open source. Yes, I love that it's reliable and fast... but that means ***** when I've got to compile drivers, download software from source forge, make sure I've got 35 different dependent packages from 20 different sources, all before I can run a simple OpenGL application. If you want linux to go mainstream, pick the 50 best things you love about Linux, and sacrifice the rest in order to make it easier, simplier, and more streamlined. - inactive, on 04/13/2008, -7/+23Linux != File System.
- holyskeleton, on 04/13/2008, -3/+18buried for misleading title. if you do a text search you wont find the word "linux" anywhere on that page.
- shadoweva09, on 04/13/2008, -0/+13Now that's just abuse of copy and paste.
- samurimaster, on 04/13/2008, -0/+12You realize your comment only makes us look worse
- Wiini, on 04/13/2008, -9/+21Not quite. Macs are for men who like men and women with short hair.
- Jereso, on 04/13/2008, -22/+31Ugh, once again...
Windows/Macs/Linux are for different people.
Windows is for basic gaming/graphic design/programming.
Macs are for basic usage/graphic design.
Linux is for cheap comps/laptops/servers/programming.
EACH ONE IS DIFFERENT AND NONE ARE BETTER THAN ANOTHER.
And also, this article doesn't even mention the word Linux or Unix. - grumpyrain, on 04/13/2008, -1/+10It is also not like you can't mount FAT32 or NTFS volumes on *nix, or mount Ext3 volumes on Windows. Fragmentation is not a 'windows' thing. It is a FAT32 and NTFS (to a less extent) thing. Granted that these are all Microsoft let you boot from, but there is no techincal reason Microsoft could not use any file system with a license compatible with a closed operating system.
- nestcrw, on 04/13/2008, -3/+10Fracking? Seriously?
- smacksaw, on 04/13/2008, -3/+9As the average Windows user I AM NOT A HACKER blah blah COMPILE and all that ***** about Linux.
Oh wait. Microsoft's solution to your computer being messed up? A bunch of abstract manoeuvres that are as bad or worse than anything you'd have to do on Linux. Except for one simple thing - the older my Linux installations get, the slower they don't get.
There's little badges of honour with Linux geeks, the uptime between rebooting their computers and the age of their install. Generally I re-install XP or Vista every couple of months. I only re-install Linux to practise things or try out new distros. - iRelinquish, on 04/13/2008, -0/+6I'm sorry when is the last time you used linux, 2000? Gentoo Linux does make you custom compile drivers but there are other distro's like ubuntu which have binary packages like .exe. Having different ways to install programs is a plus in my book. Installing a program in ubuntu(debian based linux) is 50x easier than installing a winows program. More difficult that double clicking an install file? well first of all in windows you have to find all of the .exe's by your self. If a windows program requires dependencies (.net etc) you sure as hell have to download it yourself. In ubuntu linux a .deb is the clickable install file and it will prompt you if you want to install all of the dependencies automatically and tell you if there is a newer version availible. Using Synaptics package manager you can find every app that your looking for and easily install them. Windows has nothing like it.
Compiling from source gives so many benefits, if you have it set up correctly. I would rather install a program from source in linux every time, compared to removing a windows program.
And updating is incomparable between windows and linux.
And i think you forgot to mention Virii.
/end rant - shadoweva09, on 04/13/2008, -5/+10I'd also like to say most of the problems are OS independent, the more stuff you have on your drive, the longer the seek time, the more stuff you have installed, the longer the boot, and all devices typically need cpu time (network cards in this article), so you can disable them under both systems to get a very tiny speed boost.
- init100, on 04/13/2008, -0/+4"but until there's a lot more support"
If you expect Microsoft to provide Linux support for your Zune, don't hold your breath. That's not going to happen. - inactive, on 04/13/2008, -1/+5With the use for the word "Fracking" in a non BSG related post you have cemented your "You will die a Virgin" Status.
- shawnz, on 04/13/2008, -0/+4he's not an employee, just an expert zone columnist.
- pprkut, on 04/13/2008, -3/+7Buried for crapness
- dazparkour, on 04/13/2008, -1/+5Your not neutral because your peddling an opinion and Mr Mac User, not an informed one at that.
Linux does not need defragmented.
I'm using Vista just now, but I do dual boot, on linux I do not have anything that runs at start up except a performance monitor, used it for years and never have. The problem here isn't with Windows Vs Linux here, it is that in Windows a lot of things try to default to launch on startup. I mean, who really needs Quicktime, Winamp AND iTunes to start as soon as they log on? - rob3, on 04/13/2008, -0/+4Linux never needs to be defragmented and programs rarely launch on startup. I've only ever had one do that and that's because I chose for it to start at startup. Network shares on linux actually work rather well as they're open source and so generally free from bloat and so this isn't half the problem that it for on windows. The problem with uninstalling programs on windows is that you have to go through the whole 'uninstall' dialogue - with linux there's none of that, just simply select the package, click uninstall and 'apply'. You're done.
- CoolHandRemy, on 04/13/2008, -0/+3Because it's awesome?
- iRelinquish, on 04/13/2008, -0/+3bugs in your toast, no thanks
- Jennica, on 04/13/2008, -0/+3Even if Linux doesn't get "mainstream", I will be fine with it. I am rooting for it though, but people are way too familiar with old things.
- smotpoker, on 04/13/2008, -0/+3There are many advantages to running Linux, but they are hard to specify in many cases because they vary by distro. The most universal reasons are:
- comes with more drivers and supports more hardware than any other OS, including windows (though generally it takes a bit longer for newer hardware to become supported and a lot of the older hardware is uncommon and/or requires manual driver implementation of some sort)
- easier installation/upgrade of drivers that usually do not require a reboot
- easier installation and management of software that (almost always) doesn't require reboot
- more software options (ie software tends to have more options and there are more alternatives to any given application)
- greater compatibility with regard to formats/filesystems/operating systems/networks/software
- more abundance of software that comes pre-packages (though not necessarily installed/activated)
- quicker release cycles, meaning bug and security fixes come quicker, as well as new features
- linux and it's software is almost always free (as in beer and speech) which means you can fix problems yourself easier because there is more information, you can find someone else to do it, and/or you can learn more from it if you want
- fully configurable kernel allows for greater customization/optimization of a given system to suit any task and in general most of the tasks that rely on the kernel are done quicker and more efficiently
Granted, any single one of these might not seem all that great to the average user, but anyone who likes full control of their system should appreciate all of this and they allow for more flexibility programming/upgrading and pave the way for even *better* software than exists on any given platform
DISCLAIMER: Don't mind fredphilips or confuse us, he is trolling because he takes issue with my expression of distress/disdain of the government and with free speech, apparently. He seems to now be running around saying stupid ***** in hopes of making me look bad/change my avatar - cannabrain, on 04/13/2008, -1/+4I think the reason Linux is coddled and loved so much by its fans is because its the under dog in the big OS battle. I agree with every point you make, the main reason Linux is not main stream is because it requires learning how to do things that Microsoft and Apple OS's already do for you, and bitch and complain and call people idiotic sloths, but maybe they would rather go learn to play guitar than learn to write code.
- sloppychris, on 04/13/2008, -3/+6None of that last paragraph is absolutely necessary to run linux. At least Ubuntu. (And yes, I've tried other distros)
- brodieface, on 04/13/2008, -1/+4I drink Coke and Pepsi.
- gavintlgold, on 04/13/2008, -0/+3I think it's about time for me to block fredphilips.... :)
- iRelinquish, on 04/13/2008, -0/+3Yes we do need to uninstall old software, but it does that for us.
the /tmp directory cleans it self. And thats pretty much it unless your retarded.
Defragmentation, i haven't done that since windows. We dont need to. Our file system is designed better.
For a program to run at start up, you told it to every time. I promise.
My friend mac and linux both come from unix. you weren't neutral at all, you were ignorant! - inactive, on 08/11/2008, -2/+4ITT: Retarded Diggers who don't get the attempted joke
- sloppychris, on 04/13/2008, -2/+4Linux's package management eliminates a lot of that.
- smacksaw, on 04/13/2008, -6/+8You're the problem. The last paragraph you've said is utter *****. It's what happens when people repeat a lie said by someone else without fact-checking.
Sadly, most people will agree with you. That's their view of Linux. And they're wrong. I easily have 200 programs installed on KDE right now and I used a package manager to install all of them except maybe 2 or 3.
People think Linux is complicated because people like you don't know what you're talking about and keep perpetuating lies. Linux would be a lot friendlier to people if they realised how easy a package manager is. Please tell me how installing software from a DVD I bought or following a bunch of dialogs from something I downloaded is easier than a package manager? Exactly. Because you've never used one. If you want to give us your credentials, you'd better be able to back them up. Making yourself seem credible to make false statements is just lame. - inactive, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2Wasn't WinFS suppose to solve this problem before they yanked it from Vista because it was not ready yet?
- dazparkour, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2I never said I had EITHER of those start up on my installation, Jo User does though.
As for they not being windows products, I covered that in the part that said "The problem here isn't with Windows Vs Linux here", meaning that in windows more of the applications want to be installed to run on startup than on linux, which isn't a problem with the operating system itself, but the average users will see it this way.
Again, I never said that was a Microsoft problem, or that I had that specific problem. I did not and I do not. A lot of people do and see the applications they use on windows as part of windows.
As for fragmentation, simply - wah wah. Windows uses NTFS or FAT* if it's older. Linux uses EXT3/2, no fragmentation. So, unless your installing Windows onto a partition that is neither NTFS or FAT, then, it IS a problem with windows because that is all the options you are given.
Suck it up. - secrity, on 04/13/2008, -1/+3Yesterday I installed Mandriva on an Asus Eee PC; I didn't have to download any source code or compile any drivers -- it just works.
I have Kubuntu on a home machine and on my workstation at work, I haven't had to compile any programs or drivers for those machines.
I administer 50+ RHEL 4 machines, and I haven't had to compile any programs or drivers for those machines. On these machines I can go to one website and add or remove programs on all or just one of these machines. - iRelinquish, on 04/13/2008, -2/+4amen
- secrity, on 04/13/2008, -0/+2And you think that all of that clicking on a series of arcane buttons or having to use the "run" button to run command line programs is easier than Linux?
Oh, and Wine is NOT an emulator. - nullmind, on 04/16/2009, -0/+1Good point. I wish I could correct the title.
- Wiini, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1SmackSaw, Original OP here and I'm caling you on your commentary. You're trying to get into an elitist pissing match with me, despite my Original post telling you not to. So let's pick your comment apart just a little bit, okay?
How many package managers are available?
How many distro's use their own packages, and aren't compatible with other distrubtions?
How many times have you downloaded one package and found that it's incompatible with your OS, and you need to go get a different package, albeit the exact same program just compiled differently or with different files?
Your comment implies software installation is streamlined, simple, and perfect but YET again, you're the one that's wrong. There are multiple package installers and package types, and only a few of them are compatible with eachother.. and none of those are the mainstream ones.
Where's your credentials, dummy? and again, I stated i am proficient with linux, and know how to use a (generic term inserted here) "package manager" so STFU. - nullmind, on 04/16/2009, -0/+1Windows is better because you have to invest large amounts of time that require organizing it's disk because it can't do that on it's own? Most of us easily own a 1TB of data or more. Defragging 1TB of data on any drive that isn't a solid-state device (SSD) is going to take forever.
Windows uses parts of these "copies", such as the BSD networking stack. - Myztry, on 04/14/2008, -0/+1I'm a daily Windows and Ubuntu user with a leaning towards Ubuntu. Even so, I'm well aware it's got a whole load of architectural problems. Even simple things like device naming conventions are stupid on both platforms.
Computing would have been MUCH better if it had evolved from something like the AmigaOS which was designed from scratch in the form that modern computing currently takes.
My biggest gripe with Microsoft is just how far back they set back the evolution of computing... It's quite disgusting since they keep on insisting of using the term 'innovator' when they are nothing remotely like it. - grumpyrain, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1By the time WinFS is out the door, we will all be booting from SSD based drives, so I don't imagine that fragmentation will be such a concern. WinFS is interesting for other reasons, allowing a tighter integration between different applications, but I don't think lack of fragmentation is its largest selling point.
- iRelinquish, on 04/14/2008, -0/+1.deb = easier than .exe
- sillygates, on 04/13/2008, -1/+2Actually that's not 100% accurate. Many of the non microsoft filesystems are *more* resistant to file fragmentation due to distributing file allocation across different clusters on a disk (rather than sequential allocation) (and on a few of them, delayed allocation), but when the disk usage goes over about 60-70%, this advantage is lost, and files will start to get allocated with lots of fragments. On top of that, most of these file systems (minus XFS, and very few others) do not have defragmentation tools at all.
Most *nix apps (non daemons) don't have crap, updaters, etc start with our computer, so that point in moot.
As for network mounts, its safe to assume NFS will be used between linux systems. As long as the servers arn't just dropping packets (online, rejecting, or unreachable), and especially on a good lan, mounting any reasonable amount of network file systems should happen in under a second. - bumcheekcity, on 04/13/2008, -3/+4Buried for being a totally and utterly ***** description.
- Myztry, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1MS-DOS (QDOS) wasn't meant to be a desktop system even though the Windows GUI was based on top of it up until the NT kernel actually made Microsoft an OS provider.
Linux certainly never started from such a ill conceived (no one will ever need more than 640k) base. The advantage of WIndows is not WIndows itself, it's the third party software pool.
I think frameworks such as .NET are really most useful as a safety net for Microsoft, so if Windows was replaced with anything (including an actual NEW Windows) then a fair slice of 3rd part apps could go with it. Microsoft would only need to control the .NET runtime regardless of platform. Much easier to port, then the entire software pool... - YamiJim, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1ZOMG TEH EPEEN!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
- d1gp1g, on 04/13/2008, -0/+1preach on, brutha man
though i have had to reinstall over a video card driver once
anybody know how to get warzone2100 working from the repo in an embedded intel card under gutsy gibbon? - Wiini, on 04/14/2008, -0/+1I don't get it. Are you saying I support clinton, or you support clinton? Because I sure don't support that evil woman.
- rhesusattack, on 04/13/2008, -3/+4I forced myself into a trial of Ubuntu for about two weeks. I was very impressed with its speed and functionality, but suddenly many of the programs I relied on for some time (particularly my Zune software) were gone and I had to seek a lot of unfamiliar replacements because of a lack of Linux support. I'll agree there's a lot of reasons to switch to Linux, but until there's a lot more support, I'm sticking with XP.
- nullmind, on 04/16/2009, -0/+1So, you just go to articles to search for the word "Linux"? Just open GEdit and paste it, or maybe make a little bash loop and pipe it out to a file. You could have your own internets where pages ONLY contain the word.
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