What is Digg?69 Comments
- g30ph, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I wanted to read it but there were so many words and so few pictures I got intimidated.
- redman5419, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Get the facts - the real ones. No, not those real ones. Not those, either, this set. Riiiiight over here, further down the list. Yes, I know that those were all the real facts, too, but...
- HarryBauzonia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"It's becoming increasingly clear that Linux has nothing to do with software, and everything to do with politics."
My politics have been running for 437 days without a reboot. - tominator1983, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2The way I see it, linux lovers are like car mechanics.
Plain and simple, anyone can drive a car. And anyone can fix their car if they took the time to read the manual. Need to replace the transmission? No problem. There's a book on how to do it. Want better performance? Just tinker with the engine a little bit! Anyone can do it!
But 99% of the people out there don't even change their own oil. Why? because they have better things to do with their time. They just want to drive the car. They don't want to get their hands dirty.
Why can't the linux community understand this concept? My time is valuable to me. It takes time to read a readme file or to set up a custom config file. Sure, there's documentation out there, but the nature of open source means that things are constantly changing. What works one day might not work the next. As an end user, I don't want to have to read through 30 pages on a forum until I find a post from some nerd who stays up all night and has figured out the solution to the problem I'm having. Sure, I can do it myself. And yes, it's free.
But time = money. Those 5 hours I just spent installing and trying to figure out linux could have been spent doing something productive. At $75 an hour (what I charge my clients), linux just cost me $375 worth of my time. - steal_apps01, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I tried to go to page 2 and the site went down. At least now I know how to spell which, I spell it which not witch woot
- myskja, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Wake me up when Linux runs my favorite programs.
- ricmitch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1link's dead
- tupuli, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"Due to Internet Explorer's interaction with the Operating System (Windows) this lack of knowledge can be quite damaging for the system. Alternative applications, such as Mozilla Foundation's browser Firefox run in application space and has potentially less damage for the system than Internet Explorer, which traditionally has had problems e.g. with its ActiveX extension features."
Is he claiming that IE runs in kernel space? That seems unreasonable. I have heard that some portion of the Window's GUI runs in kernel space, but never an application. - sauron256, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2Cool, so some guy with a server on "teh interweb" is the expert on all things Linux & Microsoft?
So he uses Linux. Good on him. Doesn't make him an expert on the issue. No digg. - LooterMcBeer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2The real facts are that his server sucks
- mikehdow, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3I was hoping for a true comparison with the article, which it is not. It's someone who is trying to argue against an idenpendent study by using his own prejudices and a few anecdotes thrown in.
- LooterMcBeer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2~~~~"Then again, with the number of M$ fan-boys who bash Linux out of cluelessness, so the comments thus far are probably skewed."~~~~
That is on of the funniest comments ive ever read. Its pretty much the other way around for some reason in the computing world running linux is the "Cool" thing to do. Yeah everything YOU do works on linux cause your a nerd most people dont do those things on their computers and for most people linux is harder to use and the apps that they would typically run suck on linux compared to windows. Office is a perfect example and dont even tell me open office is better cause its not its a damn good alternative but its not better - Lynn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Here is a fact. In 10 years running Windows I have had zero viruses.
- peregrine, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2kalphegor
have you ever used Ubuntu? My mom/grandmother/sister/grandpa all use Ubuntu and love it, they get frustrated when things don't work in Windows and work in Linux in fact they prefer linux. If end user you mean rocks then I supose windows would be better.
~ - HarryBauzonia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Agreed with Dangerman.
I put XP on the workstations - because XP runs the apps we need (which aren't written for Linux).
I put Linux on the servers - because the linux server apps are easier to administer, more stable, have no licensing hassles.
It's all about using the right tool for the job. Having religious convictions about an OS will keep my company from making money. - Brutis, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2dude is a moron, doesnt get the big picture that not everyone is a linux/security geek like himself
no digg, and i use linux - shedao, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"I don't know what network car you're using but all of mine work fine out of the box with Ubuntu."
Cards that have proprietary drivers are not supported natively by Debian and hence not supported by Ubuntu. I had a similiar experience using Debian with a wifi card, ndiswrapper wasn't working with the supplied driver so I did a little research, went out and bought a card supported by madwifi, and installed that instead. The first card was a POS I bought for $20, I can't remember the chipset but I still have it if you want details.
Mainstream driver support in linux has always lagged behind windows, just the nature of the beast. Now go get ya shine box!
To all newbs I recommend doing research about the hardware before you purchase it. Yes even in windows. Don't assume anything. - dwightfrank, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2wow---that article hurt my ADD.
and he's way off on the risk of lost revenue while publishing with MS apps. The business community uses the stuff because it works. Yup it costs money to buy that stuff, but we're happy to buy stuff that everyone else in the world uses. - Tobey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1http://www.kfwebs.net.nyud.net:8090/articles/article/29/Get+the+facts+-+The+real+ones
Even though it seems to be up again... - ctheory, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Decent article, but for the love of christ, if you're going to portray yourself as some sort of journalist, please use proper grammar.
- kristianf, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0http://www.eweek.com/article2/0,1759,1925503,00.asp?kc=EWRSS03129TX1K0000616 abd http://www.levanta.com/linuxstudy/
- chriszma666, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1My computer retarded faimly uses Ubuntu. If your bitching that linux is too hard to use then you just suck at understanding computers. And to the guy that said no driver support, I don't know what network car you're using but all of mine work fine out of the box with Ubuntu.
- o0joshua0o, on 10/12/2007, -2/+2This site has ALREADY been diggdotted. It's probably running on a toaster modded to run Linux.
- drosdin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0>>>See this is the problem. People use Linux, can't seem to get things to work.>I don't know, maybe most of them can't read a README or surf the web to find support amd/or intructions on how to do something. I guess they expect it to be done the same way as Windows does it.
- Dangerman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1He's skewed, but M$ is still a waaay bigger hassle to admin, even for a small business. Windows was built for desktops and it ought to stay there.
- tupuli, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1@ugli
Is it really fair to generalize this guy's opinion to all Linux users? - shedao, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0It seems like advocates on both sidesa are always on the defensive. Relax. Your choice might not be the best for someone else. Just be glad there is a choice.
Have equal loathing for all OSes and your mind will be clear. ZEN - rafgar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Meh, it's been crushed under the digg effect. From what I'm seeing of the comments though, I'm skeptical (this coming from a hardcore Linux geek). The last thing I'd want to see is something like M$'s propaganda machine from the other side.
Then again, with the number of M$ fan-boys who bash Linux out of cluelessness, so the comments thus far are probably skewed. - rafgar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1"That is on of the funniest comments ive ever read. Its pretty much the other way around for some reason in the computing world running linux is the "Cool" thing to do."
Maybe because, unlike Windows, once it's configured and working the way you want, it stays that way. And before you say it, the average user CAN'T install Windows. I can prove this by virtue of the number of people who bring me their computers just because they want Windows reinstalled and can't do it themselves.
"Yeah everything YOU do works on linux cause your a nerd most people dont do those things on their computers and for most people linux is harder to use and the apps that they would typically run suck on linux compared to windows."
Let's leave what I do at work out of it and focus on what I do at home. I browse the net, I play music, I watch movies, I keep track of my finances, I play games like Unreal Tournament and Guild Wars, I send e-mails, occasionally type something up or burn a CD...Hrm, seems like at home I do pretty much the same stuff as everyone else. And pretty much everything I do that stuff with I pulled of Synaptic, the easiest way to install software every (yes, it even beats setup.exe because you don't have to go find it).
"Office is a perfect example and dont even tell me open office is better cause its not its a damn good alternative but its not better"
How so? Open Office matches all the functionality of MS Office except e-mail, and Thunderbird's better than Outlook anyway. Hell, it's even as easy to use as MS Office. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0lynn: is your computer connected to the net?
- drosdin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Ok, it cut off the rest of my post. Anyway. Yes, thats the problem. People use Linux and can't seem to get things to work.
- iSEPIC, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0this is a waste of time
if you're going to spend mega bucks, put up test systems to see which one is going to fit you better, then buy something. Dont go off of some fanboys babblings, or MS sponsored "tests". Hire some decent IT folks (e.g. not some 10.00 / hr joe blow) and pay them well and let them fit the best solution for you, or better yet, just outsource it to IBM. - greg544, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Stupid French people should not write. Yes microSoft lies, creates FUD but this article lays out no fact or proof of anything.
- rebrad, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0My God! The Easter Egg Found in Apple's Final Cut Pro HD http://highschoolblows.blogspot.com/2006/02/easter-egg-found-in-apples_113946667818510758.html made more sense than this anal geek. Get a cup of coffee and watch a download of Lost or something.
- rafgar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"The average user could not install linux."
OK, I can't argue your comment that most people could install Windows if they just tried, but THIS one, I can argue with. Have you tried an Ubuntu install lately? The process is just as easy with it as with Windows. I would imagine that the same could be said of other user-friendly distros. Not all distros are like BSD or Debian (my perfered distro). There ARE some (Ubuntu, Xandros, Linspire, ect.) that are intended for the the average user and are very easy to use.
"The XP boxes had "Norton" installed on them"
Just to show that I'm really not a 'Windows is the devil' kind of person, this was the biggest mistake made here. Don't let the price fool you: Norton is junk. It consistently gets beat out by cheaper (and even free) AV programs. As for it's anti-spyware capability...well, it PRETENDS to have anti-spyware capability. Go get Ad-Aware and MS Anti-spyware for that. You really can keep Windows virus/spyware free (just ask my clients--at least the ones who do as I've taught them), it just takes a whole hell of a lot of work. - Unknown1987, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0WTF who the hell actually wants to read all that. And look at all that was commented
- Dangerman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"But time = money. Those 5 hours I just spent installing and trying to figure out linux could have been spent doing something productive."
Have you ever done any real world Windows server admin? You're right, time is money and that's why I run Linux and BSD. Besides, if you aren't earning enough to pay yourself to learn new technologies or to attend educational conferences and seminars, then it is not yet time to be working for yourself. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0lootermcbeer >> Yeah everything YOU do works on Linux cause you're a nerd
No. It all "just works" with a modern Linux distribution - the days of configuration hell are long gone.
I recently installed several machines - some with XP and some with Kubuntu + Automatix:
The XP installs, including adding firewall, "anti-virus", "anti-trojan" and other "security" software, then "Office", printer and scanner drivers, wi-fi facilities and all the rest took about 5 hours per box, and required a LOT of "informed intervention" to get to work. The "operating system" and software also cost a lot of money.
The Kubuntu installs "just worked" - all hardware (including the wi-fi gear) was found, software was included on the OS install disks, updates and patches were downloaded automatically, and the whole thing took about 50 minutes, and required the entry of a total of three commands.
There was NO comparison when it came to performance. The XP machines (3 GHz P4's, 1 Gb RAM) were appallingly slow compared to the Kubuntu (identical spec) ones - mostly due to the huge number of processes running in the background for "security" purposes. The XP machines were too slow for some larger "Office" tasks - a search and replace on a large document could have been timed with a calendar!
There was NO comparison about security, either:
The XP boxes had "Norton" installed on them, and set for automatic update checks every 12 hours. All the Windows machines were infected with something nasty within the first day of use (I found key loggers, trojans, root kits, virii). "Norton" failed to detect most of these, though did flag up "unexpected behavior" on some processes. The first malware-induced XP total crash and data corruption happened after two days. The wi-fi would also spontaneously fail - updated drivers didn't help - and required a re-boot to restart - XP offered no working option to re-start the connection.
The kubuntu machines were also set for automatic updates. There have been NO crashes, NO infections, and the wi-fi continued to work when the Windows version gave up.
The end users (office folks used to Windows XP / Office XP) have universally voted to move to kubuntu, because it works flawlessly for the work they have to do. XP required persistent intervention by the IT support people and caused a massive loss in productivity when it fell over and corrupted data.
The users have all taken kubuntu install disks home with them, and most are now running it on their own machines.
As a final slap in the face to MS - retail price PER SEAT of the installed XP software was over £850. Total cost of the Kubuntu / Automatix software was £0 per seat. Cost of IT support for the MS machines was calculated at £20000 for the month's trial. Support costs for the Kubuntu installs were £50 - one brief visit to add an extra workgroup, and change some permissions!
These are the REAL facts.
Remember: Windows is a poor client for a Unix world! - rolosworld, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0well... should it be Windows vs. Linux?
in any case it could be Microsoft Vs Ubuntu.. ohh well.. just knowing I have the source of what I run makes me happy.. Linux rocks. - Dangerman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"Open source is a good idea on paper, but it doesn't appear to work in practice."
Considering that the majority websites are served using open source technology and coded using open source languages which interact with open source DBs, I'm going to have to say that you have no idea what you are talking about.
It seems to me that open source technology works just fine. - Eldoo77, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Get the facts... from my lame blog. How does this help linux adoption?? digg--
- el_jefe, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"I installed Ubuntu on my second computer, and the goddamn wireless card doesn't work. ndiswrapper claims that it should work, though it doesn't. I just gave up and went on using Windows. No driver support, no software support, no games, ***** it. I want my apps to work, and quite honestly I'm already not paying for Windows. Open source is a good idea on paper, but it doesn't appear to work in practice."
posted by j0ker (0) at 02:13 PM 2/09/06
See this is the problem. People use Linux, can't seem to get things to work. I don't know, maybe most of them can't read a README or surf the web to find support amd/or intructions on how to do something. I guess they expect it to be done the same way as Windows does it. Of course, they can run the exact programs they used in Windows so somehow Linux iis not as good as windows. Then they get all mad, and then they start saying how OpenSource is bad, and Linux sucks because they had issues. Then they get on the web and start posted how Linux is antichrist and that Windows is the best OS and bash people who believe Linux is a rock solid OS.
Linus is not Windows. Linux is not hard, its different. I have no problem using my linksys wireless card in any Linux distro I have found. I have no problem playing UT, BF2, HL2 in Linux. I am not a programmer, I am not a geek. Is Linux for everyone? No. Linux requires reading and comprehension, and requires you to be able to do things without the help of a 1-800 number, or some helpdesk walking you through the steps. And most importantly you must be able forget all of the bad habits and skills Windows has taught you. For those that can not do that, or don't want to do that, don't use Linux. Windows is a perfectly ok OS to use. It requires little thought on the part of the user to use. But don't preach that OpenSource doesn't work for you, therefore it wont work for anyone else. Thats a little too much like the fable about the wolf and the sour grapes. - rdoger6424, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0myskja- What are your favorite programs? If they exist, I've got four letters for you: WINE
http://www.winehq.org - StatusQuoRules, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I don't use/like Linux, but everyone probably knows Microsoft facts are bullsh!t!
- inkswamp, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0> myskja- What are your favorite programs? If they exist, I've
> got four letters for you: WINE
Don't you love people who throw out this gripe? If people are unwilling to break with the rest of the lemmings and try something other than Windows then there will never be an incentive for developers to make their stuff available on other platforms. Duh. It's a catch-22 and people with that attitude are part of the problem. - shedao, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1This is all true. I installed linux and my penis girth increased by an inch overnight.
- pvera, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Very good, ++dig
- fredrichl, on 02/10/2009, -1/+0I threw out the last remnants of desktop/laptop MS junk some months ago, i havent looked back since, and i run a small web design company from home, i host a crapload of stuff.
the only reason i have any reason to feel a small sting of missing the ms-junk, is for gaming.
But even that is not that much of a biggie, if i wanna play i play UT, or nwn or my nintendo ds or ps2.
there is just NO reason to put up with windows, my gf has never used a *nix in her whole life, now she's a ubuntuite..did i mention? zero viruses and zero spyware.
I love the fact that i do not have administrative rights to write in system file space unless i explicitly ask for it (sudo)
It's the perfect design for the "i dont care what i click or what attachments i open"-crowd. -
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