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Microsoft U-turn to stop Linux dominating ultra low cost PCs

computerworlduk.com — Microsoft is launching a programme to promote the use of its Windows OS in ultra low-cost PCs but only tose with limited hardware capabilities. In its effort to undermine Linux it is condemning people to machines with poorer functionality and performance than the open source alternative

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  • sajchurchey, on 05/10/2008, -9/+98I guess Microsoft will have to continue selling Windows XP after all because no current version of Vista will run on the limited hardware of these platforms. Unless they slim down Vista, they will not be able to keep an updated operating system in this market. They can reduce the Windows Tax to compete, but they will have to spend millions more to keep competitive in this market. It is just another example of Microsoft trying to play catch up.
    • kingofpenguins, on 05/10/2008, -5/+35Slim down Vista? Won't this just be XP?
      • Myztry, on 05/11/2008, -2/+22Microsoft constantly slims down it's OS. I brought Windows in 1995 on 5? floppy discs. The last copy of Windows I brought was on was CD.
        The first was a stack over an Inch thick. Now Windows is only about 2mm thick. Much slimmer... :)
        • TehDoctor, on 05/11/2008, -16/+4What? 5 floppies = ~7.5 MB, 1 CD = 750 MB. That's not much of a comparison. The OS size has grown by a factor of 100. The only positive thing your comparison shows is how storage media has had immense growth.

          If you were being sarcastic, I'm sorry I missed it...
          • CarzorStelatis, on 05/11/2008, -0/+5For a doctor you obviously haven't checked yourself for hyposarcasmdetectionitis recently
          • zongamin, on 05/12/2008, -1/+1Do you miss the part about the size of the stacks? It was a joke you cretin.
    • htan, on 05/10/2008, -0/+9microsoft has already said that they would continue to license xp but only for ULPC's
      • Myztry, on 05/11/2008, -0/+8And for Corporations under the false pretense of a 'downgraded' Vista license. How can they still plan to sell Millions of licenses yet claim to no longer sell it...
        • KibibyteBrain, on 05/11/2008, -0/+5It makes them look good to their stockholders and other interested parties. "Hey, see, I swear we didn't waste 5 years of developer salaries and time on this project! Sales are up. Now don't fire me, please."
        • Myztry, on 05/11/2008, -0/+4Lies, damn lies and statistics...
          • Giga, on 05/11/2008, -2/+0Buried for answering your own question... did you think we wouldn't notice?
          • Myztry, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2And you never replied to the wrong sub-thread. It should have been under Kibibytebrain's reply.... So sue me :)
    • EntropyFan, on 05/10/2008, -26/+18Catch up? Let me see...
      Vista has a market share about 2X all Apple OS's (http://marketshare.hitslink.com/report.aspx?qprid= ... in 1 1/2 year, not 20+
      XP continues to dominate everywhere except server and embedded.
      Win Server is posting record profits.
      And now they will continue XP for ultra low-cost PCs, quite possibly cornering that market as well.

      Catch up to who?
      • alienunknown, on 05/10/2008, -4/+21Markets that they do not already monopolise?
        • Stroggoth, on 05/10/2008, -22/+9Being a monopoly is NOT illegal. It is the use of monopoly power illegally that is a problem. I see no problem with Microsoft making competitive moves like this, it is a free capitalistic system. If you don't like capitalism, move to Russia.
          • KibibyteBrain, on 05/11/2008, -0/+4Who said it was? You are not responding to the comment. The poster is merely noting that Microsoft needs to compete in markets it already hasn't dominated. Which is common sense.
          • mp93, on 05/11/2008, -0/+6That comment was wrong in so many ways. I wouldn't even know where to begin.
          • CarzorStelatis, on 05/11/2008, -0/+5Er... you're aware that Russia is a free market economy, right?
          • sajchurchey, on 05/12/2008, -0/+0Yes, just like the search and webapp market Microsoft overlooked this low end ultra portable market and slimming down XP and putting it on these systems is the only way the could quickly make up for their oversight, but it's strictly a patch. Before long Linux will be able to offer more eye candy on these low end systems than Microsoft could how to do by slimming down Vista and XP. Another of example of them trying to play catch up is trying to buy Yahoo! to stay more competitive against Google. I'm not saying they shouldn't pursue their markets, but the company is showing its age and not really staying ahead of the curve.
        • RogerStrong, on 05/10/2008, -9/+4>> Markets that they do not already monopolise?

          So you're saying that Linux, OS/X and BSD aren't viable alternatives to Windows? If not, then what monopoly are you talking about?
          • KibibyteBrain, on 05/11/2008, -1/+2From an economics perspective, Monopoly doesn't require the existence or non-existence of competitive alternatives. It merely describes an entity that has complete control over its pricing and other aspects of operation. At least for now, the moves or pricing of Linux, BSD, OSX, etc play little to no impact in how Microsoft sets its pricing and its strategies, so you could say it is an Economic Monopoly. It is clearly not, as you point out, however, a Monopoly for anti-trust purposes, at least not, in this respect.
          • RogerStrong, on 05/11/2008, -4/+1Porche has complete control over its pricing and other aspects of operation. That doesn't give it a monopoly on sports cars in any sense; it just means that it has complete control over its pricing and other aspects of operation

            Other manufacturers, in software and other industries also dictate minimum prices. They also dictate whether a dealer can sell competing products. And that's with far less market share.
          • bhalo05, on 05/11/2008, -3/+2Anyone with half brain knows that Linux and OS X are not realistic alternatives to Windows. BSD even less, of course. Linux and BSD are not desktop operating systems, and OS X is tied to Apple's hardware. It really is basic common sense.
          • jay019, on 05/12/2008, -0/+0@bhalo05
            Tell that to ASUS! Tell that to all the manufacturers of products with embeded linux inside (think set top boxes / tv's (sony bravia) / routers / mobile phones, etc etc)
      • mgromer, on 05/10/2008, -18/+11Hit the nail on the head there. People are trying to catch up to Microsoft. Time to dig me down because I like MS :o
        • Myztry, on 05/11/2008, -2/+13It's a bit of joke when Microsoft spends Billions developing Windows, while the Linux developers spend just spare time... And Linux is gaining ground quickly... Someone here is being slovenly...
          • Giga, on 05/11/2008, -1/+5Backwards compatibility really impedes the mobility of Windows development. Linux doesn't have a strict responsibility to be binary compatible, which allows it to upgrade subsystems to perform better and add more features.
          • mp93, on 05/11/2008, -1/+2I don't know why your being burried. Your right.
          • bhalo05, on 05/11/2008, -2/+3Linux has been gaining ground for 10 years and it's still nowhere on the radar.
          • Myztry, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2@bhalo05 - Linux owns Super Computing. It owns a majority of embedded devices (all your 'intelligent' peripherals are very likely to be running a Linux variant). Linux powers the majority of Internet Servers. Current generation Linux is ruling the sub-notebook market (Microsoft can't sell their current OS there). Linux/Unix even powers Google...
            Linux is being sold through mass retailers like Walmart, Myer, Dell, etc so it is certainly gaining ground. Canonical has given Linux (as Ubuntu) the business management, and infrastructure required to compete in a mass consumer world. It's only been a few years, and Linux has improved to a measure which Windows can only dream off...
          • bhalo05, on 05/11/2008, -2/+2Everybody knows where Linux is good at, and I'm not denying that. The fact is, Linux is not meant for the consumer market.
          • Myztry, on 05/11/2008, -0/+3The more consumer friendly versions of Linux are meant for the consumer market. (and as above: the academic, military, infrastructure, consumer, enterprise markets)
            The consumer market is more general than you are presenting it. It includes things like those 'smart' peripherals. I think you mean maybe the small business market, with the specialized proprietary applications.
            Those applications by and whole aren't Microsoft, or even exclusive Windows products. The only thing lacking is a Linux version, or sometimes an equivelant.
            That can be overcome with wine, or side by side with applications like Sun's (acquired) vbox with turns Windows into just another program on the system.
            Microsoft tends to claim credit for the 'mission critical' applications but the vast majority are third party products, that just happen to run under Windows. All it takes is a viable market, and they will port without hesitation. Do you think Vendors are loyal to Microsoft? Do you think Microsoft is loyal to Vendors? It's just a money scale, that can balance at any point...
          • jay019, on 05/12/2008, -0/+1@bhalo05
            What? Consumers use tv's / cellphones/ routers / set top boxes / sub notebook pc's.
            Get off the drugs dude.
      • davidlow, on 05/11/2008, -1/+8Microsoft needs to catch up in terms of growth rate. Obviously they're dominant, but that's not the point.
        • KibibyteBrain, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2Also, its pretty clear, especially over the course of the last three years, that PC computing as we know it is changing, if more slowly than projected in the 90s. If Microsoft cannot stay ahead of their competition on a feature and concept standpoint, they could get into big trouble when user expectations start to change. I don't really think Microsoft is doing a bad job here. Just because they don't have a product that really suits UMPCs and the like now doesn't mean they don't have core technologies in the works that will be more than ready by the time the need to support such things becomes more real. Also, Microsoft has platforms like Sync for the auto which show they respect the extension of what now are PC technologies into lighter and more embedded platforms. But at the same time, its pretty obvious that Microsoft's competition is making a huge amount of progress against them these days, most importantly in the eyes of consumers, and that should not be ignored if the giant wants to stick around.
    • over900000, on 05/10/2008, -16/+9Vista runs on EEE PC just fine. Youtube it.
      • Smiff2, on 05/11/2008, -2/+26maybe, but not nearly as fine as the default Xandros...
        compare the boot times for example, (which is very important in a mobile device)
        then you might see linux does this job better.
        • edelay, on 05/11/2008, -17/+3Boot time isn't everything. DOS's boot time would beat Linux... but who cares.
        • srg13, on 05/11/2008, -0/+17"Boot time isn't everything. DOS's boot time would beat Linux... but who cares."

          But the thing is, the Linux distro that the EEE comes with can do anything Vista can do, but starts up much faster. DOS is even faster, but you can not really do anything useful with it.
        • infinitiesedge, on 05/11/2008, -4/+1But can Xandros play Commander Keen?
        • TechCF, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1inifinitiesedge: It is called DosBox
        • earlycj5, on 05/11/2008, -0/+3If you just booted a Linux kernel up to the command line with the same services as DOS running; you're sure about this being that you use DOS and Linux both in this fashion?
      • Myztry, on 05/11/2008, -0/+5So Microsoft is doing it for no reason then... Are you calling them idiots :)
        • mckooiker, on 05/11/2008, -1/+2Putting XP on the EEE makes sense, but Vista does not make sense at all. So microsoft is doing it for a reason. You were confonding the comment of the previous writers that were discussing about Vista on the EEE (which is absolutely not supported by Microsoft.
    • davidlow, on 05/10/2008, -4/+28Microsoft is taking their first baby steps at marketing in the new post-monopoly world. They still don't get it, though. Dictating hardware specs is monopoly-think.
      • Buu700, on 05/11/2008, -4/+7Sorta reminds me of the U.S. in the Post-Cold War world. They still don't get it, though. Imposing democracy is Cold War-think.
        • known, on 05/11/2008, -1/+9Open Source Software promotes Competition.
          Closed Source Software promotes Collusion.
        • Buu700, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2Interesting that in just a few hours I went from +3 to 0 diggs...
      • Kamujin, on 05/11/2008, -1/+8Sounds more like Apple.
        • davidlow, on 05/11/2008, -5/+6Huh? Apple dictates to their suppliers and partners, not their customers, which is the opposite of Microsoft.
          • Kamujin, on 05/11/2008, -1/+5Microsoft is pretty hardware agnostic. They don't really dictate very much in terms of hardware specs and their supported hardware list is vast. (Microsoft OS's will even run in VM's)

            Apple only (legally) runs on Apple provided hardware.

            Hate Microsoft. They've earned it, but lets not just start making things up. Apple dictates that you will buy your hardware from them or "no soup for joo". Microsoft doesn't care what hardware you buy as long as you put Windows on it.
          • mckooiker, on 05/11/2008, -2/+4Did you read the article? Microsoft IS giving huge discounts on XP if vendors sell UMPC's with hardware specs they decide.
            Since Microsoft has a monopoly, and vendors will be able to get higher profits in this way, probably they will give in without much complaints. So Microsoft DOES care and DOES dictate......abusing their monopoly.
            In the end I think this will not reverse Microsoft from loosing market share, and it will cost them quite some money.....
          • davidlow, on 05/12/2008, -1/+2Yeah I agree that Kamujin should definitely RTFA. If Microsoft wants their PCs done right they should make some PCs themselves. Trying to coordinate dozens of external PC manufacturers has led to a LOT of technical difficulties.
          • Kamujin, on 05/12/2008, -1/+1Really? Show me where their EULA agreement prohibits installing XP on a system with a 17" screen. Oh, you can't? Incentives are not"dictating".

            Dictating is Apple saying that you can not lawfully install OS X on anything not sold by Apple. Put the kool-aid down.

            @dividlow. I did RTFA. Now its your turn to UNDERSTAND the ***** article!
    • zwaldowski, on 05/11/2008, -0/+28It's weird... how does a "stiff" discount from Microsoft battle against a $0 Linux license?
      • Myztry, on 05/11/2008, -0/+10Poorly... Microsoft are still missing the Office Suite in the deal...
      • CarzorStelatis, on 05/11/2008, -2/+3Because some people prefer Windows XP to Xandros?
      • sajchurchey, on 05/12/2008, -0/+2The stiff discount means that the Windows XP laptops aren't so much more expensive than their Linux counterparts. The cheaper computers get the more the Windows Tax will stand out between it and its competitors. Right now, it's trying to lower this gap to at least try and stay competitive in the market, to the best of their ability right now.
    • edelay, on 05/11/2008, -10/+6Yes Vista can on a UMPC
      http://www.microsoft.com/windows/products/winfamil ...
      • srg13, on 05/11/2008, -1/+8You seem to be missing a verb there...
      • sajchurchey, on 05/12/2008, -0/+1If you did not notice, it has yet to be actually released, scheduled for later this year. Remember that Vista was set back and missed a lot of dates. In any case, the UMPCs will more than likely NOT run Aero, which leaves Linux being the only viable operating system to provide the eye candy that Microsoft cannot provide with its bloated OS on such a limited platform.
    • grumpyrain, on 05/11/2008, -1/+4Hardware is not a stationary benchmark. In Vista RC1, you needed a PC costing a couple of thousand to get reasonable performance. Today, you can easily configure a PC with a lot of change from $500 that can comfortably run it. Do you really think that the eePC won't be at the same price running 2GB RAM by next year?
      • sajchurchey, on 05/12/2008, -0/+0Yes, but by next year so many of these small laptops are going to be sold that perhaps Linux will be the standard. Yeah the eePC could finally run vista, but perhaps the standard OS for once will be Linux because Linux has provided the features and functionality that Microsoft could not provide on the same platform when the market began.
    • KiraDnote, on 05/11/2008, -3/+12More anti-trust activity by Microsoft. I hope the EU and the Feds crack on them again.
      • CarzorStelatis, on 05/11/2008, -1/+2The EU Competition Commissioner has said she will - "the ideal result would be for Microsoft's market share to fall below 50%" (that's a paraphrase, but a reasonably accurate one)
  • 4DFX, on 05/10/2008, -35/+28Go ahead microsoft. In the meantime Linux will conquer the higher-end PCs.
    • Sammi84, on 05/10/2008, -6/+49I'm a Linux user and I would like to ask you to please stop selling Linux with false promises and predictions.

      That's a lofty statement of yours without anything to back it up with. Linux has been consistently behind Windows in hardware support, especially for new high end hardware, mainly because of lack of driver support from hardware manufacturers. This will only change when Linux gets more popular, because then user demand will force hardware manufacturers to make drivers for their OS platform(Linux).

      It's the classic chicken and egg problem. It will take time and only time to resolve.
    • bumcheekcity, on 05/10/2008, -17/+9I'll just load up Crysis on my high-end Linux mach... oh yeah.
    • gta3uzi, on 05/10/2008, -1/+12Well, if you think about it, it does dominate the server market and has a fairly large presence in the "supercomputer" arena. Sadly, it only has a 3% establishment in the home/business computer market. IIRC Vista was at 7% and WinXP was something like 83%. This was based on a distributed web survey (embed code on several webpages, webpage logs what OS user is using, phones home with IP and OS at the end of the survey)
      • Myztry, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2I think he meant middle-end because if you look are high-end PC's (even most super computers these days are based on an IBM PC COMPATIBLE architecture and x86 compatible processors)
        http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Supercomputer#Operati ...
        Then you will notice the near absolute absence of Windows...
      • init100, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1"Well, if you think about it, it does dominate the server market and has a fairly large presence in the "supercomputer" arena."

        I think you mixed those up. Linux has a fairly large presence in the server market, but it absolutely dominates (85% market share) the supercomputer sector.
    • Lionhart, on 05/10/2008, -7/+5I lol'd.
    • sfacets, on 05/10/2008, -6/+14You have to know that isn't true right? Higher end PC's are for either gaming or digital editing, two fields in which Linux lags far behind.
      • 16777216, on 05/10/2008, -2/+12True, but Linux is "good enough" to game on if you tweak it right.
        • Stroggoth, on 05/10/2008, -7/+2No, no it's not. No support by major game makers, no new releases. Tux Racer is absolutely worthless, no matter how fun it was ten years ago.
        • skootz85, on 05/11/2008, -1/+7Hey! I happen to like Tux Racer!
        • brocruit, on 05/11/2008, -3/+2Bull *****.. and Tux Racer Doesn't count. Its not good enough if far cry looks like crap and lags everytime shots are fired. although i do tend to tense up wheni think someone is shooting at me... so maybe linux is a more realistic platform.
        • nickert0n, on 05/14/2008, -0/+1Who Said Penguins Can Fly?
      • RogerStrong, on 05/11/2008, -2/+4And business software.

        If you're running an accounting system for anything more than a mom & pop store, you almost certainly need Windows. Some of the manufacturers we sell products for have web or PDF-based parts lookup, but others require Windows. And no, dropping those lines isn't an option.

        We also need Windows for some banking software, for client software for our Fax/Photocopier/Printer and assorted other devices.

        The good news is, this is gradually changing in favor of web-based apps. And our new phone Mitel phone system is Linux-based and has ample support for Linux machines.
      • srg13, on 05/11/2008, -1/+9Linux certainly does not lag in video production - it's very heavily used in 3D modelling (eg. Maya), compositing (Shake, Nuke, Flame), and somewhat in editing (although an autodesk Smoke system is over $100 grand).

        And then it is pretty much the only solution for rendering (apart from a few Mac OS clusters here and there)
        • vertexoflife, on 05/11/2008, -0/+5Blender, also.
          • srg13, on 05/12/2008, -1/+1Blender is very good, (and can give incredible results) but it's not used that much professionally as far as I've seen.
          • TrevaLVF, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1You might be surprised. I found some professional graphic artists (including commercial artists) that used Blender and, as I recall, the blender-compatible Yafray ray-tracer.
        • CarzorStelatis, on 05/11/2008, -1/+2Yeah but he meant digital editing in general, not just video. How easy is it to install the Linux version of Photoshop? Oh wait...
        • TrevaLVF, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1Despite Gimp's limitations, at least Gimp is a photoshop/digital art program that is not only free, but compatible with Blender. As I recall, some Blender users were also using Gimp and running these programs on Linux.
          You can always use something like Partition Magic to switch back and forth between more than one OS.
  • bumcheekcity, on 05/10/2008, -5/+34It's like a company were trying to turn a profit by not having two products directly compete with one another. It's madness, I tell you!
  • bakaloba, on 05/10/2008, -21/+4Microsoft is launching a programme to promote the use of its Windows OS in ultra low-cost PCs but only tose...

    Really? It takes two seconds to spell check. Buried
    • idslite, on 05/10/2008, -1/+11Programme is french for program...
    • Gforce20, on 05/10/2008, -3/+7Talk about an amateur grammar nazi! :|
    • sanford42, on 05/11/2008, -1/+2You completely fail at troll, do you realise that? So what, now you're going to knock me for spelling "realise" instead of "realize"?
  • Gforce20, on 05/10/2008, -15/+7Microsoft's finally getting smart again! But I do hope they go both ways, with low- and high-end PCs, because I have a relatively higher-end PC, and I wouldn't want it to go to waste with a low-end version of Windows. :/
    • duccodude, on 05/10/2008, -0/+6RTFA
      • Gforce20, on 05/15/2008, -0/+1Already RTFA'd, thank you very much.
        Comments on Digg are evaluated much like Youtube comments. Nobody really cares whether or not you thought about it when you wrote it- it's all about pointing out something funny/weird about the article.
    • thecompkid, on 05/10/2008, -0/+4Anyone who goes both ways knows that size doesn't matter.
    • secrity, on 05/10/2008, -1/+2They are not being smart, they are being a smart ass.
    • Thorpe, on 05/11/2008, -1/+2Microsoft weren't smart for releasing Windows Vista. XP FTW.
  • protogenxl, on 05/10/2008, -5/+27Why don't they just keep XP alive and rename it?
    • tama00, on 05/11/2008, -5/+19and give it a new interface so people wont know the difference! ..... wait a minute.....
      • Chris4, on 05/11/2008, -5/+16Yeah. A new interface which needs high specs so everyone buys a new computer. Bundle in a load of crap. Change the security. Viola, Vista.
        • estvir, on 05/11/2008, -7/+9Also, have a new codebase, new kernel, new printer stack, new driver model, new audio stack, new networking stack, new ..

          Yeah, it really is just XP with Aero. /rolls eyes

          Morons.
          • bhalo05, on 05/11/2008, -2/+7This is digg. What did you expect, an informed opinion?
        • kiput, on 05/11/2008, -1/+3...and have almost no advantage over the way it was done in XP.

          Moron.
      • sfacets, on 05/11/2008, -3/+2They have been doing the same thing since Windows NT - same underlying mess (patch upon patch upon patch), different GUI.
    • DestroyFascism, on 05/11/2008, -5/+3Windows XP SE
      Windows XP lite?
      Well Lite has been done....(and it rocks)
      • IllBeBack, on 05/11/2008, -0/+3Windows XP ME?
        Oh, no, that probably won't do...
  • Grovulent, on 05/10/2008, -1/+59I convinced my gf to by an eee asus (linux version) yesterday. She's very happy with it. It runs faster than ubuntu does on my 1500 dollar laptop.
    • sfacets, on 05/10/2008, -0/+42My mother recently bought one, hasn't looked back - it is all about the perception people have of what Linux is.
  • sfacets, on 05/10/2008, -15/+56Microsoft keeps holding back technological potential - kind of like when the Catholic church monopolized society and held back scientific knowledge. It is now the time of the corporation to halt progress.
    • cjnkns, on 05/10/2008, -4/+14I think you're right - most people aren't ready for new technology simply because they are comfortable with what they have.
      It is almost religious.
    • sirhomer, on 05/11/2008, -3/+19Only a really naive person (aka a Microsoft fanboy) would think that Microsoft is in it to improve technology.

      When we look at new ideas, we don't evaluate whether the idea will move the industry forward, we ask, 'how will it help us sell more copies of Windows?' -Bill Gates in The Seattle Weekly, (April 30, 1998)
      • Myztry, on 05/11/2008, -0/+9The 80's were a great time to live through. So much innovation. I got my first computer in 1982, but still consider my experience around 1988 with the Amiga (1985) as the Zenith.
        Every since then, with Microsoft becoming dominant, I practically throw up in my mouth every time Microsoft uses the word Innovation...
        They really need to stop using the word Innovation in place of imitation... It kind of sucks for Microsoft that the basis for everything was done before they could buy their way into OS's...
        But it sucks so much more for the consumer under the regime, they have seen computing delayed by decades! As a kid, I was expecting great things. Now I'm just hoping my kids get to see that...
    • Megatog615, on 05/11/2008, -1/+2Well as the always say, history repeats itself.
  • Jexie, on 05/10/2008, -4/+25b..b.b....b.b.but the free market always leads to the best possible products!
    • Picaroon, on 05/10/2008, -2/+21In this case, Linux is part of the market. I use Linux--I'm typing this from Ubuntu 8.04. Because it introduces free competition to go along with Apple's OSX and Microsoft's Windows, Linux forces them to compete and do better.
      • 16777216, on 05/10/2008, -2/+4Same here.
      • Jexie, on 05/11/2008, -1/+5Yeah, I do agree with you overall. I hope microsoft doesn't consider Vista to be the improvement they've pulled off from competition though. Its the near-monopoly status they hold and the power it gives them to suppress true competition that worries me.
        • Myztry, on 05/11/2008, -0/+4Vista is the child that has trouble competing with it's Father (WinXP)...
          So sibling slits his father throat while he sleeps... One less to compete with...
    • tech42er, on 05/11/2008, -5/+7Yeah, it does. The alternative would be having the government mandate what products to make. Look at the ***** government and ask yourself is you relly want them controlling production. Hence the free market.
      • Jexie, on 05/11/2008, -1/+5False dichotomy, America isn't anything near a free market now and never was anyway. The only real question is how much government intervention is right.
      • sajchurchey, on 05/12/2008, -0/+4Not to mention that things that are not "free markets" aren't communist either. Socialism is about government control of important services and industries (health care, food, etc). There is still private ownership and operation of business inside of socialist governments. You're talking about two opposite ends of the spectrum and most countries fall somewhere in between.

        Government regulation of our "free market" economy became necessary when corporations in the early part of 21st century proved that they could not be trusted with the health, safety and best interests of the American people, and in my opinion, they still can't be trusted to operate without oversight. They would screw over the American consumer the first chance they could. They still do it today.
        • TrevaLVF, on 05/13/2008, -0/+3Actually, corporations were illegal in some states . New Jersey once prohibited corporations, until a Manhattan firm at Wall St. and Broad began to change all that in the late 1870's. The founder (Sullivan) of the corporate law firm Sullivan & Cromwell was pro-corporate and made his post-Civil War fortune helping clients to get around and then remove laws intended to protect the people from the threat of corporate monopoly. Sullivan & Cromwell had a lot to do with New Jersey becoming a corporate-friendly state. The firm also introduced the marriage between corporate lobbyists and the US government in the early 1930's.
    • zeebo, on 05/11/2008, -0/+7Its not subject to market forces when Microsoft can say 'ship XP on those laptops as well as Linux or lose OEM licensing', this needs to be looked into by the SEC. If the better technology would win we would all be using highly optimized microkernel operating systems with database filesystems by now and nobody would need 4gigs of ram and a quad core processor just to check their email. As it is Microsoft killed Be and we've been set back a decade or more technologically as a result.
  • YodaJones, on 05/10/2008, -10/+39Actually what nobody at Microsoft seems to get is that Linux is not successful only because of the price of the products, it's because of the better quality and security. At this point even if Microsoft Windows was free it could not change the fact that Linux will eventually win this OS war.
    • andrewtheart, on 05/10/2008, -2/+26If the people at Wine make Win32 binary compatibility so good that the average or semi-advanced user doesn't notice the difference, Linux will truly take over. Wine is already absolutely incredible, just needs a few more years of serious development. It's already good enough for me, just not 100% of users.
      • KiraDnote, on 05/11/2008, -1/+3Thanks for pointing that out. Seriously. It's easy to forget since it's not quite there yet.
    • FKnight, on 05/10/2008, -21/+6This is exactly why no one likes the Linux Fan Club. You feel that this is a "war." As a result, the Linux Fan Club is looked upon like a bunch of assholes because they think everyone is stupid or brainwashed for not using it.
      • init100, on 05/11/2008, -1/+5"This is exactly why no one likes the Linux Fan Club. You feel that this is a "war.""

        Seems to be common in the United States. Everything is a battle or a war, and everything you do is about conquering or defeating something or someone. I'm pretty confident that Microsoft views the competition with Linux, Apple, etc, as a war too.
    • masterteel, on 05/11/2008, -8/+2Windows is actually the operating system with the least security and the largest amount of security breeches. Don't get me wrong, I am an avid Windows user, but when was the last time you had to download an update for a mac to avoid a virus? Linux isn't really targeted yet either...but it may also just be that a large population of the users are using Windows.
      • KiraDnote, on 05/11/2008, -1/+3But not when you use sophisticated security add-ons including a firewall, anti-virus, and anti-spyware programs.
        • init100, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2Those are band-aids for a broken OS.
        • TrevaLVF, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1Just more stuff to clutter your hard drive and gobble up space. Then you're faced with hunting for a reliable firewall, anti-virus and anti-spyware program that provides you with everything you need. Despite free versions of some, you're better off paying for others. That can run into some money that a lot of computer users don't have to blow on these things. I don't know about Linux (I'm still in the process of learning from experienced users and developers before I decide to install it), but I do know that Mac users haven't needed to sweat over all this stuff.
          Plus those security programs don't offer 100% fail-proof protections. And, they really are band-aids for a broken (poorly programmed) OS.
      • sajchurchey, on 05/12/2008, -0/+2Linux is more secure by design. Spyware is virtually impossible to install on Linux because any user who inadvertently downloads the software won't be able to install it because of their limited privileges on the system. If malware does compromise the system it will be very limited in what it can do in terms of hiding itself, executing code and damaging the system . . . not to mention no ActiveX reduces a lot of spyware attack vectors.

        iptables is just as robust and powerful as many of the firewalls people use on their hosts everday if not more so.

        If you think Linux has more security breeches and vulnerabilities than Windows, I feel sorry for you. You either misinterpreted the information or believed some bias report that misrepresented the facts to you.

    • duckyinc, on 05/11/2008, -5/+3I don't get it.. so if windows would be free for all then you would still use linux? Somehow the piracy statistics tell me a different story
      • init100, on 05/11/2008, -0/+7The world is a large place. That many people prefer to pirate Windows instead of using Linux does not mean that we all think the same way. I would use Linux even if Windows would be free.
        • bahmak2004, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2same with me! as long as linux exist I will never use windows again. the sad reality is friends are always coming to fix their broken vista/xp!
        • jay019, on 05/12/2008, -0/+1I'd still use it I was offered money to use windows.
      • steviesteveo, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1A lot of the more unusual tools are beaten out roughly using publicly accessible code, so a lot of the more interesting (to me) programs are available first on linux and then ported elsewhere as time allows, I would use linux because of some of the cool networking apps that are available for it, it's a personal choice, I'm not a piracy statistic.
      • sajchurchey, on 05/12/2008, -0/+2Nope, I would continue to use Linux because it is simply better designed and more efficient technology. It is what an OS is supposed to be: stable, secure and usable. With Linux, the sky is the limit in terms of what you can do with hardware and software. There are no limits as to what you can develop, and it is relatively easy to make work with the OS. If you want to do the same things with Windows, you have to sign non-disclosure agreements, use poorly documented APIs and somewhere down the line pay money to Microsoft. Windows stifles innovation.
  • mrfanboy, on 05/10/2008, -3/+19Erm... boo(!)
    Seriously though, people should quit whining and let the market decide. Linux is forever making in-roads into Microsoft's territory, and will continue to do so despite this top secret reduction program. In such a market where price point is a more important factor, perhaps people won't bother with the £16 per license when Linux can offer it for free.
    • FKnight, on 05/10/2008, -20/+5You're right. Linux is forever making inroads and will continue to do so .. forever ... never catching up.
      • mrfanboy, on 05/10/2008, -1/+7Yet Microsoft are playing catch up on innovation, and while they carry on in that path, Linux et al will continue to chip away at Microsoft's dominant position in the OS market. Got to love the free market.
  • GtCo21, on 05/10/2008, -3/+12It is not free, Microsoft's attempts will be futile.
  • adderx99, on 05/10/2008, -6/+58heres a thought for microsoft. try working on a superior os that doesn't suck ass
    • samuel514, on 05/11/2008, -0/+6best comment :)
    • Kamujin, on 05/11/2008, -1/+11Bah, just fork a unix. Worked for Apple.
      • KiraDnote, on 05/11/2008, -0/+7Apple got lucky didn't they? Just when they were on the brink of total disaster unix saved their ass.
        • Kamujin, on 05/11/2008, -0/+3I give them credit for making a good move, but it would sure be nice if they gave back to the community that saved their bacon.

          The whole Darwin thing smells badly.
  • jplily, on 05/10/2008, -0/+1That was a really interesting article
  • andrewtheart, on 05/10/2008, -1/+26So we can add low-end computers to the global Windows botnet. Thanks, Microsoft!!!
  • matriculated, on 05/10/2008, -3/+44There's no way in hell I'm going to run XP, an anitvirus and scan for spyware on the limited space and memory available on these low cost PCs! The revolution starts now people!
    • andrewtheart, on 05/10/2008, -1/+24That's a good point. Someone is going to have to make a *very* lean virus/spyware scanner for these machines or they will just be little virus infested pieces of junk.
      • KiraDnote, on 05/11/2008, -1/+5The Linux versions should be fine?
        • Talung, on 05/12/2008, -0/+2The Linux versions should be fine?

          Why the question mark? The linux versions will be fine. They do not suffer from windows viruses, malware or adware. You do not need those extra applications running. In fact you can get away without even using a firewall.

          Linux is way more secure and safe by design.
        • andrewtheart, on 05/12/2008, -0/+2If you honestly don't know the answer to your question, Kira, I recommend reading this -

          http://nnucomputerwhiz.com/linux-virus.html
    • scyon, on 05/11/2008, -4/+2Revolution? there is no revolution, only technology that works (for your application) and technology that doesn't work. You want to make Linux popular? Write some code, support some people, make a howto, whatever you're into.

      <rant>Linux needs evangelists the same way god does. </rant>
      • KiraDnote, on 05/11/2008, -2/+1god doesn't need anything. only people need evangelists.
        • steviesteveo, on 05/11/2008, -1/+0That might have been the intent of the previous poster's rant.

          It's true really, all the commenters who say "bah, M$ is awful, use linux" could equally much help by joining a project, translating apps, (US to UK english translator here ;) ) writing code, providing (good) publicity etc etc and that will prove much more useful than anything else.
    • bhalo05, on 05/11/2008, -3/+2Then don't, you don't need that. Just learn how to use a computer in a sensible fashion. It's pretty simple, really.
      • mossblaser, on 05/11/2008, -0/+5I work in a computer store (a small one run by a pair highly skilled people, not some stupid "geek squad" *****) and I see a lot of people like you who think you can escape viruses on windows by being smart, well, lets just say I've yet to see one come in that didn't have a ***** load of viruses on, generally subtle ones that hide away, gnawing on your privacy and CPU.
        • bhalo05, on 05/11/2008, -3/+2I can make the same argument for any Linux user. Just because they don't have anti-virus running doesn't mean they have the guarantee that a Trojan or rootkit has not entered their systems.

          BTW, occasionally I scan my Windows system with anti-malware tools... they've never found anything. Tracking cookies, at the most. Just draw your own conclusions.
          • mossblaser, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1OK. Most viruses (effective ones that is) won't be found by virus scanners after they've infeted your system, they can only be found using a second OS on a seperate HDD/computer, from there most need to be manuallly removed.

            With regards to the linux point, while yes that is a posibility I'd love it if you'd point out said Linux trojan or rootkit.

            Also occasionally isn't exactly viable given it only takes one cached password/credit card number and say bye bye to your privacy (and or money).
        • CCmachined, on 05/12/2008, -0/+2rootkit on Linux? haha!
          only the super-user(root) can mod system files and have complete access to the running system, and all users are forced to be normal users (not root). to do any admin stuff, a password must be entered either in a GUI prompt or a terminal, so no viruses are gonna infect me. you have no idea, buddy.
    • init100, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1"The revolution starts now people!"

      The Wow Starts Now!
  • jplily, on 05/10/2008, -6/+4heres a thought for microsoft
  • SilverhammerMBA, on 05/10/2008, -2/+36Wait, wait. Microsoft is trying to undercut a FREE operating system? How does that work?
    • microft, on 05/10/2008, -1/+4They'll give xp way to OEM low cost pc makers
      • Myztry, on 05/11/2008, -1/+5Microsoft isn't beyond paying the OEM's to it's Operating System. Microsoft is more than willing to burn money in order to maintain/gain a monopoly.
        Outside of a monopoly situation, Microsoft always fails...
        • CarzorStelatis, on 05/11/2008, -1/+3Yeah - the Xbox division is doing so badly!
          • Myztry, on 05/12/2008, -0/+1Microsoft burnt a lot of money to establish it's position in the market. They have finally turned a small yearly profit, but overall the Xbox series has lost a small countries GDP.
            No ordinary company can sustain those kind of losses. They go out of business before they can get into the lucrative monopoly/majority position. Microsoft certainly didn't make any money while being under top spot, and they have a long way to go before breaking even...
          • jay019, on 05/12/2008, -0/+0Hows your RRoD?
        • bahmak2004, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1remember microsoft zune?
    • ArielMT, on 05/11/2008, -1/+11Probably the same way they got Internet Explorer to be the dominant browser. Before Microsoft bundled it into the operating system (excuse me: "integrated" it into the OS), they offered it as a free download with quite a few bundled extras and offers that amounted to paying people to use IE over then-dominant Netscape Navigator. Despite this, Navigator remained the dominant browser throughout this period. Only when Microsoft learned that the success of their products depends on integration with their monopolies that IE defeated Navigator.

      Whether this magic trick works here or not remains to be seen.
      • Myztry, on 05/11/2008, -0/+5These days they are shoveling Silverlight. A web browser and a flash plug-in can make an Operating System irrelevant in many online scenario's. They are desperate to remove the cross-platform nature of this scenario. Surplant the competition...
      • TrevaLVF, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1More specifically, when MS started integrating things like special codes for web page developers to use on their sites that either didn't work at all in Netscape, or caused visibility problems, more people switched to IE so that they wouldn't have to launch IE every time they wanted to view certain sites.
  • socivitus, on 05/10/2008, -1/+16free vs. not free in LOW COST PCs, now i'm no genius, but I think most companies will see the light.
    • EtherGnat, on 05/11/2008, -2/+1Companies will go wherever the demand is. As long as people want Windows that's what they'll offer. Windows typically doesn't cost them anything anyway--the promotional fees received for trialware typically offset the amount of the license.
    • mfalkon, on 05/13/2008, -0/+2You would think,which is why one of the first things I tell someone when trying to turn them onto Linux is "It's free!" But what happens with most people, is they assume if it's free, it can't be any good.
  • Colinjn, on 05/10/2008, -3/+8There is still a lot of software that only runs on windows. Limited software selection is what restricts Linux. I`d dump MS in a minute otherwise. ( And yes I know about VirtualPC for mac, but mac restricts adaptability by restricting customizing.)
    • kahrytan, on 05/10/2008, -1/+7by software, i hope you mean games. But Linux has allot of software for it. The only thing I can't find is GOOD DVD authoring software for Linux.
    • TheRealToma, on 05/10/2008, -1/+7There are alternatives to just about everything you can think of. Guess whos fault it is for not porting their applications to linux? Hint: Rhymes with Developer.
      eg. Skype (with its GPL violations) has done a good job supporting linux. Where are the other companies?
      • EtherGnat, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1I think "fault" is the wrong word. Commercial developers will support Linux whenever they feel it is financially beneficial to them. That's the way business works--they're not obligated to support anything.
    • microft, on 05/10/2008, -0/+3You also have the Wine project.
    • tech10171968, on 05/11/2008, -0/+3"Limited software selection"? Last time I checked the repositories (via Synaptic), Debian, the distro I use, had somewhere over 20,000 applications available.

      No, that wasn't a typo, I really did mean over 20,000. That's not exactly what I'd consider "a limited software selection".

      A lot of those apps may not come close to replacing the functionality of their Microsoft equivalents; OTOH a surprising number of those apps not only perform as well as their Microsoft equivalents but a few even blow the doors off the Windows versions. This isn't widely known only because a lot of people don't even know those apps exist (for that matter a lot of people don't even know that anything other than Windows or OS X even exists).

      The fact that you don't know about an alternative doesn't mean that the alternative doesn't exist.
      • jay019, on 05/12/2008, -0/+2Too true. I didnt realize how much better Amarok is compared to iTunes till i tried it.
    • AngryChris, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1"but mac restricts adaptability by restricting customizing."

      I'd be interested in seeing why you feel this way. I've found that Mac OS X is infinitely easier to "customize" than Windows due to it being a pretty standard BSD Unix. If by "customize" you mean re-skinning the UI, well, most folks don't do that in Windows anyway. What are you trying to customize in Mac OS X without success that you're able to customize in Windows?
    • morc90, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2The only thing holding me back from switching to Linux is Adobe software.
      • TrevaLVF, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1You can get more than one drive then use a partition program. (I use Partition Magic.) That way, you can use both types of operating systems. I know a lot of fellow Blender 3D users that also use Blender compatable programs on Linux who have a their computers partitioned between that an a Win OS (usually Win 2000 and XP) so that they can get around the non-compatibility issue.
  • kahrytan, on 05/10/2008, -7/+8Microsoft just hates to loosing to Linux and this why they are doing this.
    • eMximeR, on 05/10/2008, -5/+61.) I'm pretty sure Microsoft OS's are on a hell of a lot more PCs than linux
      2.) loosing?
    • Kamujin, on 05/11/2008, -1/+1Microsoft hates losing to anyone. Can't say I blame them, but they'd do well to get used to it.
      The "We're smart the the world" philosophy is flawed.
      It nearly bankrupt Apple.
      It is now taking down Microsoft.
      Turns out the world is smarter then any one company.
  • microft, on 05/10/2008, -1/+15The thing all you Microsoft guys don't understand: Linux is not profit oriented, even if some companies make mony off of it.
    There is no way a proprietary, closed OS can compete (fairly) with and open one.
    This becomes extremely obvious when the hardware capabilities are limited.
    When you use an open OS, you can "cut out all the fat".
    • EtherGnat, on 05/11/2008, -3/+3There are many advantages to open source software, but it is no guarantee of a superior product. If that were true, there would be a superior open source application for everything, and that clearly isn't the case. There are also a number of disadvantages to open source software, but I've got a feeling I'll be buried to China if I go there.
  • Jawshey, on 05/11/2008, -1/+27OK, I'm looking at this from a slightly more balanced view.
    I recently received Linux (Ubuntu) and I loved it. It was easy to use, everything worked - no problems. I made the switch earlier this year from Windows to Mac, cause I couldn't stand it anymore, and it was only recently I got a spare laptop to play about with and I switched to Linux.
    I have to say, Linux is quite unique, and since it's open source, it'll always be technologically advanced and tailored to the needs of the individual, not the masses. Which is a good thing, as it doesn't need half the hard drive clogged up with free trails of software I'll never ever use.
    However, there are those that are not that convinced yet. Nor have they been properly informed of the potentials of Linux, and won't be bold enough to make the jump from Microsoft strangle. That is where I think this new plan might be a slight threat. Since many people know and use Microsoft everyday (you know, since it dominates the current market), people are too scared to change, or are too familiar with the constricting OS that is Windows, to switch over to Linux.
    I think that many manufacturers are going to take an interest, even if its slight, to consider this, as it's easy prey to those who think Windows is the better option, because they have either never tried Linux, or do not wish to stop giving Ballmer his fat pay check.
    I think more manufacturers should take a stand like Asus have with the Eee PC, and make the Linux version more luxurious than the Windows, and then hopefully Linux should win the eventual OS war



    That's if Apple doesn't enter the market. People will pay anything these days if it has an 'i' before its name and a Apple logo stamped to the side.

    Jawsh
  • Smiff2, on 05/11/2008, -0/+11great, let them... it'll just make the linux versions even better (and even faster).
    Microsoft is trying to prevent competition against Vista, but what they don't realise is that most people soon won't care about the OS - hardly even use the OS - they just want a web browser - the rest is just a nuisance.
    • jugglingjon, on 05/11/2008, -0/+6I agree completely, the only 'threat' that Microsoft's dominance faces is the shift towards web based services and programs, making application compatibility a non issue for competitors. I even see Windows losing its foothold in PC gaming, as more developers focus on console only titles; taking away one of my only reasons for staying with the platform.
  • Stonekeeper, on 05/11/2008, -0/+3This is old market logic. I'll give you my popular thing, as long as i dictate the rules and conditions of it's use. In the meantime, real freedom makes inroads. For OEMs, this is just a joke.
    In summation Round hole, square peg.
  • jaydedragon, on 05/11/2008, -1/+12just another reason for me to detest microsoft
  • 3leggedHorse, on 05/11/2008, -1/+12 What a ***** load of crap. There really must be some nut jobs at Microsoft.
    • mossblaser, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1Yeh, I think I know of one in particular, thing his name was "balmer"....
  • ronaldmonster, on 05/11/2008, -9/+5Linux won't take over, it will just be another option thats available.
    • zeebo, on 05/11/2008, -2/+6Nonsense, its already taken over. You probably already have at least one device that uses Linux without even knowing it. That's the advantage of open source, you can strip it down, harden it, and perfect it for an application so well that the end user won't even know that its there.
    • mossblaser, on 05/11/2008, -0/+3Do you use the internet daily? Yes? Then every day then chances are linux is behind most of what you see...
  • DestroyFascism, on 05/11/2008, -1/+5So the Fed want the world to pay an oil tax and a Money Tax
    GE want the world to pay an Electricity tax
    Monsanto want the world to pay a food tax
    BP want the world to pay a solar tax
    Semantic want the world to pay a security tax
    and Microsoft want the world to pay a Computing tax.

    Love you guys!
    /not
  • mile, on 05/11/2008, -7/+3"Microsoft will charge $26 for XP in emerging markets such as China and India"

    Thats disgusting as its THOSE TWO VERY COUNTRIES that are stealing work from the United States leaving software developers on the street not able to purchase a laptop because its those TWO VERY COUNTRIES which are consuming more and more oil, this raising the price.........

    Ah forget it. No one seems to give a flying ***** anymore.
    • waspbr, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1stealing? sorry buddy but this is how the market works. If anyone is to blame for this it is the bush admin for completely ignoring economics and letting their budget deficit grow... not to mention the "not-so-cheap" iraq war...
    • mckooiker, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1Naughty guys there in China and India.......consuming OUR oil....producing cheap products (since labour costs less there)....
      You americans do not own the world, though you would like to.....
      If you're that advanced over there with technology etc, why didn't you switch over to oil-independent ways of transport yet? Instead you drive these enormous cars that consume about 1 litre of benzin each 3 miles......
      You seem to see the mote in your brother's eyes and not the beam in your own....
  • giunov, on 05/11/2008, -0/+6To get the leadership on the low cost PC like eeePC, looks like Microsoft is subsidizing the PC maker. Yesterday I was looking to the 9" eePC in Singapore and guess what ? The Linux eePC cost 40S$ more than the Windows XP one ! The justification of the vendor is that the LInux version got 8GB of memory more (8GB cost around 40S$). This means that Windows XP cost to ASUS NOTHING, it is given for free from M$!
    • waspbr, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2or ASUS just wants to increase its profit margin on the linux version
    • Labourer, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1that is interesting as there was an article recently announcing that the different setups would cost the same , the only difference being the linux having more memory.
  • noreality, on 05/11/2008, -2/+6Dude! M$ is making enough money as it is, I say quit worrying about the lower end PC's because with my income and piece of crap computer, I will not be paying anymore than $10 bucks for anything that is compliant with it. I say: Microsoft quit worrying about low-end computers and fix the bugs in your retarded software....
    • zeebo, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2Microsoft doesn't have any vision or focus any more. A few months ago they had decided that Google was their enemy and that they needed to compete against them which led them on a buying spree. Now they've noticed that Linux is starting to move in to a market niche that they had never even thought existed and are quickly trying to squish innovation once again by dumping a crippled version of one of their older products on the vendors.

      The sooner Microsoft goes the route that IBM did the better for them, their stockholders, and everyone else. They need to find the niches they're best at, concentrate on those, learn to play well with others, and stop trying to compete against everyone else in the technology industry. How many innovative companies have never been able to bring their products to market, or make money because Microsoft has such a stranglehold on office and operating system software? Think about if Microsft had a similar hold on the console market, we probably wouldn't have seen the Wii with its unique controller.
  • slightlygifted, on 05/11/2008, -13/+5wtf is so much better about linux then windows? ive never had my computer crash or get a crippling virus. maybe its cause im not a programmer (why the ***** do all programmers have to talk about programming all the ***** time?) but i cant think of one single way windows is stopping me from doing what i want to do with a computer. from what ive heard the only difference for an average user will be that linux is harder to use.
    • phaedrusiszen, on 05/11/2008, -1/+7Then if it's working fine for you, stick with it. Whatever makes you happy.
      I can just tell you my perspective: Windows is too restrictive. It also tries to "dumb" itself down too much. This may be great for most people. For me Windows, including the server editions, this dumbing down, renders them slow to work with when you want to do complex tasks.
      Linux gives you pure freedom to manipulate your system however you want and it's completely transparent (books can be written on that). If you don't need that, and Windows makes you happy, then good for you.
      Just doesn't work for me.

    • noreality, on 05/11/2008, -2/+6I am not a programmer, and when I got Windows, viruses and hackers came straight to my computer, and the worst thing is: I'M ON DIALUP!!!

      Six years later, I am still on dialup and I am on Linux, and guess what? I don't have the crap I get from Windows.

      Sure, if you like Windows, work with it, people can have their preferences, I like mac, but I ain't gonna spend $1500+ for an OS that give me the HD option. And yes, I agree, Windows is a good option, if you don't connect to the internet with it, but who doesn't use the internet? Old people?
    • srg13, on 05/11/2008, -2/+10Linux is anything you want it to be. You can make a Linux system that runs on tiny embedded systems, with just the essentials, or you can build an everything included desktop OS for fast computers. Or then I can use a super light window manager, and it'll fly on a ten year old machine. Or, I can make a server that can run without wasting processor time or ram on a window manager... And, apart from it being fast, it has a far more advanced privilege system, so basically the only way you could get a virus on your system is to run the program and the give it your password...

      Basically, you can tailor it to any platform, any application. That's why there are so many distributions.
      • bhalo05, on 05/11/2008, -5/+3And that's why you don't get it: people don't to custom tailor the damned operating system, they want something already made for them that works. And no Linux distribution is near that ideal.
        • mckooiker, on 05/11/2008, -0/+9Agree, since Xandros, which comes with the EEPC is set up that bad that no one buys it. Also Dell that ships ubuntu delivers completely unusable computers....
          /irony
          It's you that's not getting it. No one says YOU have to custom tailor Linux, programmes/vendors will take care of that. You just have to use it (or not, if you would like to use windows/mac or anything else no one will stop you!).
          I prefer my freedom, but that's just my opinion.....
          • bhalo05, on 05/11/2008, -3/+1I get it pretty well, thank you. I get that the only consumer hardware where Linux is being preinstalled is on devices limited by their very nature, and even in those the only thing it has going for it is low cost. If MS strikes good deals with OEMs, then that poing also becomes irrelevant. Ask yourself why Asus made sure the EEEPC would work with XP from the beginning and there would be your answer.
          • mckooiker, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2I do not agree, just visit the web-site of DELL and search for linux. DELL sells computers with Linux pre-installed that are not limited by nature.
            Of course in these cases the difference between the linux/non linux pc is relatively low and you'd waste resources, since linux requires less resources, but that's another story.
            I completely agree that Windows cuts away part of a potential Linux-market share by making agreements with OEMs, like they are donig for years now: as a customer you do not have a choice, you can buy Microsoft products or Microsoft products. And I know that Microsoft pays ASUS to sell EEPCs with XP at a lower price than Linux-EEPCs.
            This is exactly the the reasons why many "linux fanbois" (like me) get angry. Is it legal to kill competition in this way? Not by merits of your product, but by forcing the Microsoft food in the throats of customers. Of course, at least 75% of the customers is happy with the food they are made to eat, but many complain about vista but don't even know the alternatives exist.
          • bhalo05, on 05/11/2008, -2/+1And that's why competing on price is a really, really bad idea. Linux should offer something Windows does not, besides low cost. The sad thing is, it doesn't.
          • mckooiker, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1In don't agree. If you have two products that are similar (for me windows offers nothing more than linux), why should only the most popular one survive? why are the 25% of the people that are not happy with windows/vista forced to eat windows?
            Just look at the prices: windows is obviously abusing its monopoly. a mediocre program is sold like it is the most wonderful software ever created.
            I agree with you that linux does not offer many unique things (compiz, safety, and above all FREEDOM left aside) but on the other hand, there is nothing a mazda offers that a ferrari can not offer. So should we all be forced to buy a ferrari?
            Does a MAC offer many unique things? so should we abolish the use of MACs?
            All I'm asking for is equal rights. After that it's up to the customer to decide what to "buy", Windows, MAC, Linux BSD, Solaris.......whatever you want.
          • jay019, on 05/12/2008, -0/+1@bhalo05 >And that's why competing on price is a really, really bad idea. Linux should offer something Windows does not, besides low cost. The sad thing is, it doesn't.
            Er. What version of Office will you get for free on the XP version of the eeePC? Will there be a multi platform IM program installed? Will you get a standards compliant browser? etc
        • srg13, on 05/12/2008, -0/+2That's what we have distributions for - if you don't want to set it up, just grab Xubuntu or Ubuntu and everything will work for you. I'm sure that's enough for some people, but for anybody interested in computers, the freedom of being able to customise them however you want them is awesome.
  • danjal, on 05/11/2008, -0/+7i like my vista and xp machines here at home, and the mac gets props too.. but i've been always one to back Linux on portable devices, its so robust, and the learning curves are less and less. I know i sound like a broken record but the eee pc with its custom Linux kernel is a prime example of just how good a linux machine can be, and still be accessible to a large range of users
  • giunov, on 05/11/2008, -0/+5It is not about who is better between XP and Linux. XP is a good OS, pretty stable and usable. The point is that people must have the choice of what OS to run. Today, you cannot buy a new PC without OS unless you go for DIY. This way of doing business has been enforced by Microsoft subsidizing Dell, Hp and the other, forcing them to install Windows on all the new machine.
    XP, OSx and Linux are all good with advantage and drawbacks but you got to have a choice!
  • juusux, on 05/11/2008, -0/+4boo microsoft, back yo ass off.
    well it is good that XP might be easier to find on these PCs, since it is more compatible with most programs out there. I don't think microsoft should be trying to dominate the market though, they have already tried to do that with normal PC's - they pretty much accomplished it already anyways.
    I'd like to see Ubuntu on some, like buying an Asus EEE with Ubuntu... that would just be plain amazing. You can do it yourself but a lot of the people I know who got EEEs aren't the do it yourself type.
  • Wang, on 05/11/2008, -8/+2"In its effort to undermine Linux it is condemning people to machines with poorer functionality" - what a ridiculous statement...you sir, are dugg down.
  • zeebo, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2Maybe Microsoft is moving towards a 'web 2.0' style business. Give a crippled XP to inexpensive machine makers, and everytime the person who bought it starts it up and sees the MSN start page it will be eyeballs that Microsoft will be able to find a business model to make money off of. If they can justify locking down the OS because its a 'budget' version, soon the only version that will be available to the majority of users will be the budget version, just like how it can be difficult now to find a machine without vista home.
  • twindragon6, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2The B@$7@RD$!!!
  • Jammerdelray, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1It's really up to the Company making the low end Pc's whether to use Microsoft's OS or Ubuntu's not just MS.
  • duckyinc, on 05/11/2008, -0/+1What ever turn it is, it's working right?
  • KaivenTor, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2Strip Windows back down to 1-2 versions, forget this 4 versions BS because that's exactly it. Put all the features in there, we don't want to pay for something that it was SUPPOSED to do right out of the box. Reduce the price of the software by at least $100.00 or more, and start donating PCs with Windows to more schools. Maybe, just maybe, Microsoft would be able to perk some sales volume back up. Right now they are relying on people eventually upgrading and the stigma of Linux being hard to use, but those days are numbered, so coasting isn't an effective long term plan. They'll eventually have to adapt.
    And yes, it's the OEM's decision to run Windows or not, but for the majority of OEM's, they'll make more money selling something popular than they would something not so popular. Linux is a good move because it's new, it's innovative, people want to see it, they can afford it keep the price down, and hitting Microsoft in the consumer department is a popular move.
  • peterinjapan, on 05/11/2008, -1/+4I used the included Linux on my EEE PC rev. 1, which I use less than my iPhone now, that keyboard and screen are so difficult to use, digg me down if you must for being honest. It seemed to me what Linux really needs to do is make it VERY easy to find, install and manage software on all flavors of Linux, regardless of what they are or what kernal they are running. I had real trouble figuring how how to go about installing things I knew I'd want, like Gimp, and eventually had to go to Windows XP (heavily customized) to get any use out of it. Software should be easy to find, easy for both freeware and (gasp!) shareware or even commercial software to be used.
    • zeebo, on 05/11/2008, -0/+2How do you make volunteers and diverse companies located the world over all with their own ideas on how to package, distribute, and present software all agree on a single installation method or package format? Create a better package format and the world will beat a path to your door, but there will always be holdouts because they can since no one can dictate anything to the community. If you wanted easy to install software you could just as easily have installed Ubuntu on it.
    • earlycj5, on 05/11/2008, -0/+3How hard is it to figure out?
      Just "apt-get install gimp".
      There's no issues in "figuring" out what you have that I can see.
      • shanesemler, on 05/14/2008, -0/+1You don't even need to use the command line. He could just open Synaptic. It's even easier.
    • mckooiker, on 05/11/2008, -0/+4Though I know that installing programs is easier than installing programs on windows (I used windows for over 10 years and switched 2 years ago to Linux) I think peterinjapan has a point here and is also very wrong:
      As a foreigner to Linux it is not always as easy to understand how to install things, since the average Windows user is used to Windows: download file, saving it on the desktop (or anywhere else), double clicking on it, answer the questions like "where you want the program to be installed, do you agree with the license? etc." and that's it.
      So installing programs with a package manager that lets you install the program with two clicks and no questions about license etc. must be strange and not the usual thing they are used to.
      He is completely wrong about the difficulty of installing things: it is 10 times easier with linux, especially if you bother to take a look at some forum and read.
      The screen and keyboard size are exactly the same for windows and linux installed on the same device....

      I wonder if you managed to install things the first time you touched a windows computer......
  • jimminy, on 05/11/2008, -0/+7Windows: Limited screen size and hard drive capacity... what a sad joke.
    Linux: Whatever you want, just the way you like it... now that's great!
  • kepalapening, on 05/11/2008, -8/+1Linux is a good OS, but not for desktop. Therefore, it is good to hear that Microsoft will continue selling Windows XP for ULPC.
    • mckooiker, on 05/11/2008, -0/+4Did you try? why do you think Linux is not a good OS for the desktop?
      • bhalo05, on 05/11/2008, -4/+3Because installing fscking third party software or setting up external displays is still a pain in the ass. This is 2008, you know?
        • mckooiker, on 05/11/2008, -0/+3I installed skype, pdf reader, flash player and many other third party software in just 2 clicks. Easier than installing any other program on windows. I'm sorry, I don't know what you are talking about.........
        • CCmachined, on 05/13/2008, -0/+1installing a second monitor?
          Vista: *insert USB memory key*: Let's install some device drivers!!
          in Linux, i boot, connect the monitor, press Fn+F8 like in Windows, and it works 100%. what are you talking about?
  • MattBD, on 05/11/2008, -0/+3I do think that Windows-based subnotebooks will have a hard time competing against Linux - this is one area which really plays to Linux's strengths of speed and low cost. If you compare one running Windows and one running Linux, I expect you'd find that the Linux one was considerably faster.
  • Bicep, on 05/11/2008, -0/+4Dugg for proof that Ballmer should EAT HIS WORDS about Linux not being a threat to Microsoft's Monopolistic practices.
  • Phoghat, on 05/12/2008, -1/+2XP is alive, it's ALIVE I tell you! cue lightning and thunder.
  • shanesemler, on 05/14/2008, -0/+1I really despise Microsoft. What a ***** company.
  • nickert0n, on 05/14/2008, -0/+1Heres the deal how I see it,

    Microsoft will never die, but Windows will =).

    Im not a Linux hopefull, Im a Linux user that is pratical. You cannot beat the OpenSource model, hands down it will conquer. As someone said above it all boils down to time.

    The xbox and Active Driectory will be what Microsoft in the end clings too. OH and support like IBM who eventually dropped out of thier PC domminant market (remember the term IBM-Clone?) and now operate help desks and sell *****.
    No one would ever dare to say IBM will ever lose the PC Market but it happend, just as Microsoft will lose the OS market to a better model.

    I could go into further detail but in the end when it happens and Im right thats good enough for me. beleive it or not but people are becoming more and more aware of the ***** around them its just at such a slow pace that we think they are not.
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