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- Philluminati, on 12/05/2007, -11/+64No one beats Compiz Fusion!
- Devrdander, on 12/05/2007, -9/+51"Many users are going to leave for KDE4, when that is released."
I hear this every major release of KDE, they said the same thing before KDE2 and KDE3 came out and it didn't happen. - mr1337, on 12/05/2007, -2/+36Looks like the servers for Compiz Fusion beat Metacity's servers. 31 diggs and down.
- zmjone2992, on 12/05/2007, -2/+33kde isn't a distro asshat. get off your high horse...
- Tyr7BE, on 12/05/2007, -8/+39People leave alright. They flock to a new KDE release in droves, they all go "OOOOOOOOH SHINEY", and then gradually they realize that it's nothing new. It's a bit of eye candy, but it's still cluttered and still doesn't really work right. Eventually they go back to wherever they came from, more or less unimpressed. This was me and everyone I know when KDE 2 came out, it was me and everyone I know when KDE 3 came out. It will be me and everyone I know when KDE 4 comes out.
No matter how blingy KDE gets, I always come back to Gnome. It works properly, like I expect a desktop to work. KDE weiners will bitch and complain that they can't adjust the speed at which their cursor blinks. I will respond asking who the hell cares, it's a god damn desktop, it should get out of your way and let you get down to business. - solidcube, on 12/05/2007, -1/+28Digg Beats Wordpress.
- TeacherOfHeroes, on 12/05/2007, -8/+34Speak for yourself, but personally I can't stand KDE. I've tried the beta releases of KDE4 and it's no different.
I can't even really say why I dislike it. It just feels unorganized and unasthetic... - renegadeafk, on 12/05/2007, -13/+39This may change with KDE 4, but as it stands I have tried many KDE and GNOME dstros, KDE has ALWAYS been slower than gnome, MUCH buggier and unstable and the UI is a mess KDE also NEVER works right wih mounting/ejecting my ipod, which always works automatically and correctly with gnome. Gnome is simple and does what I need it to and the UI is organized and easy to use. I do agree nautilus sucks balls though. I will definately have to give KDE 4 a try though, look like a good improvement.
- Protoss, on 12/05/2007, -2/+26Don't see how this beats Compiz-Fusion in any way...
- markoa, on 12/05/2007, -0/+17Nautilus development has not stalled. For details, see blog posts from its current developer, Alexander Larsson at http://blogs.gnome.org/alexl
I don't know about the other two features you mention, do they *alone* make you dislike GNOME that much? - Devrdander, on 12/05/2007, -1/+18Actually there is quite a bit of usefulness in the eye candy. Like with Compiz i can quickly zoom out and view all my desktops, and also quickly view all open windows and pick the one I want. People like to show off how they can draw flames and have fish swimming in their background but don't let that degrade the usefulness of the functional pieces.
- Tyr7BE, on 12/05/2007, -1/+17By "beats", I think you mean "now implements the features that compiz had in 2005".
- GMorgan, on 12/05/2007, -3/+18When KDE3 and KDE2 came out it was far and away the most popular DE. It's only the last 2/3 years that Gnome has really over taken it (interestingly, in the period Ubuntu has been around).
- ptFoe, on 12/05/2007, -39/+53Great to hear that but too bad Gnome is backward. They don't even support the mouse scroll wheel properly with an option to set the number of lines scrolled. Or even different wallpapers for the workspaces. The development on Nautilus has stalled.
Many users are going to leave for KDE4, when that is released.
You got to feel sorry for projects like Metacity. - Tyr7BE, on 12/05/2007, -1/+15You're getting dugg down by the KDE children, but I agree completely. It works well and all, but it really doesn't feel like the parts belong together. Widgets don't fit properly, menu items aren't where you expect them to be, buttons all over the place, etc. It looks like it was just thrown together without much thought. I know they've been out to stop that image, but I've seen very little work done towards correcting the problem. We will see when KDE 4 comes out, but so far I've been very much unimpressed with KDE.
- TeacherOfHeroes, on 12/05/2007, -0/+12I *like* pidgin because it doesn't support nudges in msn...
but you're right - the things he's whining about are pretty trivial - keitho, on 12/05/2007, -4/+15all candy is pointless. doesn't mean we don't want it.
- TeacherOfHeroes, on 12/05/2007, -0/+11I'd say that gnome is now popular for the same reason that kde was popular before - the "easy to use" distros like mandrake were using KDE, so thats what a lot of new users got used to. Now it's GNOME thats the default, so *that* is what new users are getting used to now.
- sugarhigh4242, on 12/05/2007, -2/+13I've also never been a fan of KDE. The art style looks too garish and candy-coated. And they overload the user with configuration options/tabs instead of making the tough decisions for an intuitive system.
I'm watching KDE4's progress, but it's not looking like the revolution I initially expected. - stalefries, on 12/05/2007, -0/+10Those KDE vs. Gnome benchmarks are really old. In the last few releases, the people working on Gnome have put in a lot of effort in making it faster.
- drjones78, on 12/05/2007, -0/+10Not really a fan of either UI, but I generally prefer Gnome to KDE. Something about the look and feel doesnt sit well with me. Even with all the customization options available, it never seems to make a difference. KDE is just ugly and clunky from an aesthetics standpoint, but I cant really put my finger on exactly what it is that bothers me.
Not to mention the total explosion of poorly articulated and explained configuration options they overload you with. Gnome on the opposite extreme, doesnt have enough, but I much prefer it to KDE.
Either way, WindowMaker is still my desktop of choice:P - aywwts4, on 12/05/2007, -0/+10How about... The great thing about linux is the fact that we have so many options to choose from, distributions, window managers, 3D effects, etc.
And the alternative of your choice is always one 'sudo aptitude install' away. - earlycj5, on 12/05/2007, -0/+9It's no wonder I keep seeing KDE4 is not KDE4.0 with comments like this.
Sheesh, look back at KDE3.0 kompare that to KDE3.5.8.
KDE4 isn't a release, it's the next generation of KDE, KDE4.0 is the next release, give it some time before making premature (IMO) judgments. - dogson, on 12/05/2007, -1/+10There is little doubt that KDE is the more technically advanced DE of the two, with the most features etc. But most of the apps im using everyday is GTK based. Firefox, Pidgin, X-Chat, Openoffice, Liferea, Gimp etc. If the majority of my "everyday" apps were QT based i probly use KDE instead.
- awesomeface, on 12/05/2007, -1/+10Hi, my name is Kevin45 and I think the only true way to use a computer is strictly terminal. My desktop environment has black and white as its color.
Ctrl c, ctrl v? No thanks. I_like_to_type_out_path_directories_just_because_i_scoff_at_those_who_cant_type_400_words_per_minute.tar.gz - Tyr7BE, on 12/05/2007, -0/+8Compiz fusion has been running on my system since I installed Gutsy without a single problem. Not one crash.
- renegadeafk, on 12/05/2007, -3/+11I've tried a lot of distros. SUSE, Kubuntu, PCLOS (KDE was actually pretty fast here, but ipod problem/instability the worst), MEPIS, Debian, Sidux and others. I've never had good luck with kde, and KDE running compiz/ it's own compositing was always incredibly slow and unusable, whereas it was fine in gnome.
- xst4t1kx, on 12/05/2007, -1/+9Even though I started out with it, over the years KDE has only come to remind me of windows and all it's bloat. The only thing that would draw me to it now is if it has become light-weight, stream-lined and efficient -- which it hasn't.
- PhinnFort, on 12/05/2007, -11/+19All the negative things you just said about KDE seems to be related to the way your distro handles things. In fact, KDE is lighter on resources (http://ktown.kde.org/~seli/memory/desktop_benchmar ... run the tests yourself if you don't believe the results) and it even participated in a program that automatically scanned the source code for bugs, which would imply that it's codebase is actually cleaner.
- latova, on 12/05/2007, -0/+8It technically does, you can see when people send it to you and send it back by saying /nudge
However it doesn't shake your screen and pop up. Thank god for that. - ertz, on 12/05/2007, -2/+9"Or even different wallpapers for the workspaces." ... next time try bitching about REAL features. It's like saying "I don't like Pidgin 'cause it doesn't support Nudges in MSN".
- awesomeface, on 12/05/2007, -0/+7If Kubuntu were as good as Ubuntu then I'd switch back to KDE. I really, really, really hope that the kubuntu team will put together as polished a product as the ubuntu guys (.....and that's ignoring the fact that every guide/how to is geared towards ubuntu)
Yes, yes I know. *buntu is for newbs, but after being a computer programming for at least 10 hours a day I'd like to not have to f around with my computer, and would like it to work automagically. - antitab, on 12/05/2007, -0/+7People seem to forget that the whole Linux compositing craze started with an internal test-branch of Metacity called Luminocity, a full year before Novell released Compiz upon the masses. In fact, Luminocity gave birth to the whole "wobbly windows" thing:
http://www.gnome.org/~seth/blog/xshots - andyakadum, on 12/05/2007, -2/+9jealous windows 98 user?
- BlackStrain, on 12/05/2007, -4/+11NO ONE expects the Spanish Inquisition!
- twtmc, on 12/05/2007, -0/+6http://www.duggmirror.com
- jjustin01, on 12/05/2007, -0/+6You know, it's because of self-righteous jackasses like you that people do not want to switch to Linux. They see the "is for idiots and simpletons" comments all the time and it makes steer clear of it because they don't want to be insulted for asking questions.
Good God, if Linux people do nothing but insult each other, then why the hell would someone new decide, "gee, I want to be part of that!"? - MeneerR, on 12/05/2007, -0/+6KDE has its places where it beats GNOME.
And I'm a gnome-user. It's just not that black and white.
Things KDE does right compared to GNOME:
- architecture is more sane, like dealing with ssh/samba/etc.
- ability to customize/tweak for those who want to be in control of every little detail
- innovate technically, as we can experience with KDE 4, they truly try new things
- store settings in simple config files, instead of the bloated gnome-registy
Things GNOME does right compared to KDE:
- sane defaults targetted at average user
- ability to turn on 'expert' features for those apps for which you want them (but not by default!)
- one program .. one purpose .. do one thing and do it well (nobody uses a swiss-army-knife to smear the jam on their sandwich!)
- skin based on usuability (no fisher-price look)
- a clean organized menu
- human interface guidelines (you might disagree, but at least they have guidelines!)
See, it keeps coming down to KDE having a sucky interface by default. We can fix most of it, because it so customizeable. We can remove text-alignment buttons from a chat-window. We can hide programs in the menu that should only be launched by opening some file. (like a pdf-reader). But why do we need to spent a day or two fixing it? What is wrong with having interface guidelines and sane default?
On the other hand, gnome, why is customizeability a decease? It's ok, if its all hidden in the gnome-registry for the power-users. But even there, you refuse to support options when you disagree with them. (like supporting a mac-style menu-bar on the panel). Even when somebody else provides the patch.
Please give my KDE's architecture with the default configuration as much like GNOME as possible...oh and stick to _some_ sort of interface guidelines. It doesn't matter where the save button and cancel button are, but make sure it's always the same place! Don't bother me with first-run-wizards. Just work dammit. If i'm that 1% that want something special, i'll find that option entry in the menu. Really, I can. And ***** off with the splash screens. It's aint no gameboy! I don't want branding. Hell, i wouldn't even know what the gnome pdf viewer is called. Or what the music juxebox thingie is called. They just popup when I need them. Why would Amarok need to advertize for itself everything I launch it?
Yes, i can turn it off. I can fix most of my issues. But there are just insane defaults. KDE is not about ALLOWING people to tweak. It's about FORCING people to tweak. Gnome is not about PROVIDING a dumbed-down-easy-to-use-interface, it is about FORCING people to use a dumbed-down interface.
Can both parties please get their heads out of there ass? KDE could beat GNOME so easily, if they would just understand the importance of usuability. GNOME could destroy KDE so easily, if they would just understand the need to tweak and to have an innovative infrastructure.
Ahhhh.. enough of the rant. - InsaneMachine, on 12/05/2007, -0/+6http://duggmirror.com/linux_unix/Metacity_beats_co ...
There is your mirror (yes I did check it) It did get the picture, just click on it. - curupira, on 12/05/2007, -0/+6Firefox is not exactly GTK-based. It re-implements in XUL a lot of things that GTK do. OpenOffice, as well, re-implements almost everything (it even has its own font renderer). That's why those applications are so slow, even in gnome, when they are apparently "GTK-based" (of course, the fact that their codes are a mess doesn't help either).
- awesomeface, on 12/05/2007, -0/+6bears beets battlestar galactica
- voyvf, on 12/05/2007, -0/+6Compiz Fusion isn't just eye candy, either. The group and tab option is sheer genius.
- oobuntu, on 12/05/2007, -1/+7not sure you've really understood the definition of "beats"...the link page has the all crucial sarcasm ":P" on the end of the title
- TeacherOfHeroes, on 12/05/2007, -0/+6@colto
How does it block potential voters? Maybe you got that from the parent's comment, but I think what he was saying is that we should ignore/exclude the gnome-skewed surveys on places likle ubuntuforums, and similar kde surveys on places related to suse. This year, 2007, is the first year that non-biased surveys have shown gnome as ahead.
If you think that they're blocking people in other ways, can you provide a link to some evidence? - PsychoticDude85, on 12/05/2007, -0/+6Erm... KDE has paid developers working on it too. You can see some of the companies which support it here: http://ev.kde.org/supporting-members.php
Neither of them are likely to "fade away" any time soon. - colto, on 12/05/2007, -3/+9I wish I could digg you twice.
- kwilliam, on 12/05/2007, -1/+7Dude, cursor-blink speed! I haven't customized that yet!
Seriously though, it's just two different philosophies. Gnome users want their desktop environment to be less distracting and "get out of their way". KDE users want their desktop environment to be incredibly useful, so it becomes part of the solution, rather than part of the problem. - rivviepop, on 12/05/2007, -2/+7vi for the win!
- drjones78, on 12/05/2007, -2/+7Red Hat has been using Gnome for years, and so have most other linux distros of any significance.. Ubuntu is more of the same. KDE might be the only one around today if it weren't for QT's crazy licensing schemes in the beginning.
- HerbertScrunge, on 12/05/2007, -2/+7The last *1* year, really - 2007 is the the first year that a distro-neutral survey (i.e. ignoring Ubuntu surveys which are always hugely pro-GNOME and OpenSUSE surveys which are always hugely pro-KDE) has resulted in GNOME coming top:
2007:
http://www.desktoplinux.com/cgi-bin/survey/survey. ...
2006:
http://www.desktoplinux.com/cgi-bin/survey/survey. ...
2005:
?
2004:
http://www.desktoplinux.com/cgi-bin/survey/survey. ...
It'll be interesting to see the results of this years' LinuxQuestions (which I think is relatively distro-neutral) survey which has historically been a KDE stronghold. -
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