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Massive Desktop Linux deployment (52 MILLION new users!)
aseigo.blogspot.com — KDE on Linux has stepped up to become the software platform in the primary school education system in Brazil. That may sound like a bold claim, but the numbers are staggering and speak for themselves....
carbon12- 1687 diggs
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- oobuntu, on 04/24/2008, -4/+60If there numbers sound crazy, here's the Population breakdown in Brazil
0-14 years: 25.3% (male 24,554,254/female 23,613,027)
15-64 years: 68.4% (male 64,437,140/female 65,523,447)
65 years and over: 6.3% (male 4,880,562/female 7,002,217) (2007 est.)
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demographics_of_Brazi ...- flatfish, on 04/24/2008, -1/+53This is an absolutely *huge* win for Linux and the students of Brazil. Hopefully this becomes a model for Linux deployment on a massive scale that others can learn from. Dugg because it's wonderful News IMHO.
- jjesusfreak01, on 04/24/2008, -30/+11Stinks that they'll all have to learn to use Windows when they get into the real world.
Awaits mega digg down...- nmnnotmyname, on 04/24/2008, -3/+19Not necessarily true. It depends on the field: More and more companies are using Linux for things other than hosting these days as Digg will tell you over time.
- jjesusfreak01, on 04/24/2008, -16/+2But how many of these people, when they get their own computer, are going to spring for a Linux system, when its so much easier to just go windows. Also, we cant really be sure what kind of interaction these kids are having with the OS. Are these computers just sitting in the lab for kids to write reports on, or do they serve other purposes.
- nmnnotmyname, on 04/25/2008, -0/+9If you use Linux from the beginning, Windows is a serious bitch to use and you'd rather stay at home. Same for if you use Linux for too long. I can't stand Windows now. (I can use it for small things but I will never code with it again!)
Also, do remember that Linux is not just a word processor. It can do more than you think. I'm not going to spend 30 minutes listing all of this crap because I've done it before and the bottom line is that Linux can do pretty much anything you need it to if you don't work in a very specialized field. - Nitrodist88, on 04/25/2008, -0/+7How is it easier to "go windows" when the license costs.. money.
- nixfu, on 04/24/2008, -3/+22Funny..I work for a Fortune 50 company and don't use windows at all.
- bitterbug, on 04/24/2008, -2/+7Hush, Mr. Jobs.
- HoratioHellpop, on 04/24/2008, -10/+3@nixfu -- *you* don't use Windows, or *nobody* in your Fortune 50 company does? Big difference.
- SierraAlpha, on 04/24/2008, -1/+2Fortune 50 huh? What does that pay?
- FairDinkumMate, on 04/24/2008, -0/+15Engage brain before activating mouth!
If the entire country is educated & used to Linux, what do you think most companies in Brazil are going to roll out in future years? - specialK16, on 04/25/2008, -1/+11Seriously, if you need a non-stop, critical mission server, don't even think about using Windows.
- nmnnotmyname, on 04/24/2008, -3/+19Not necessarily true. It depends on the field: More and more companies are using Linux for things other than hosting these days as Digg will tell you over time.
- martalli, on 04/24/2008, -7/+7How similar is the operating system you used in third grade to the operating system you used in college? It hardly matters.
- spiffytech, on 04/25/2008, -0/+6It's not a marketing thing like hooking kids on cigarettes to make them buy the smokes later in life. It's about introducing them and getting them used to the idea that software and computing can/should be open and free to whatever they want, not shackled by someone looking to make money off of your productivity, even at it's expense.
- iRelinquish, on 04/25/2008, -0/+6I used a mac in elementary school, and always used windows at home. Now i use linux?
- jjesusfreak01, on 04/24/2008, -30/+11Stinks that they'll all have to learn to use Windows when they get into the real world.
- jabberwolf, on 04/24/2008, -23/+2Great numbers but then there is reality...
Voce nao falan portuguese com Brasilianos!
My friend would not be caught dead with linux on their machines and are all using PCs and some Macs.
Its nice for the government to save some money but those ARE NOT people BUYING linux machines, those are estimated people that will come across use of it in education and probably get a good laugh!
Government offices will still be using Windows ! How do I know? How about asking someone working in a government office in Brazil rather then posting a linux-tard BLOG PAGE as truth?!!- FairDinkumMate, on 04/24/2008, -0/+14Ever thought that 'your friend' may not be representative of all of Brazil?
Eu morar no Brasil e falar Portuguese com Brasileiros todo dia!/I live in Brazil & speak Portuguese with Brazilians every day!
3 Simple reasons why Brazil will adopt Linux VERY quickly -
1.With the education system now exposing students to Linux & not Windows, it will become the more comfortable system for the 'average' use in coming years. So when you have people now saying 'I don't like Linux because it's too different', Brazilians in 5 years will be saying EXACTLY the same thing about Windows!
2. Tax on all electronic goods in Brazil is ridiculously high. This means that most people have PC's that are 2-5 years behind current systems in the rest of the world(yes, even 'new' systems sold here are ridiculously underpowered!). Heavy OS's like Vista aren't designed for & don't perform well on these older machines when compared to Linux
3. Piracy is HUGE in Brazil. unfortunately this results in a lack of security for users systems(eg. can't use Windows update) & less motivation for Microsoft to develop 'Brazilian Portuguese' support as effectively as it could. Linux on the other hand doesn't have the piracy problem which eliminates the security issue. The support can also be developed by Brazilians for Brazilians which increases its relevance & depth. I'm not sure how much you know about Portuguese, but Brazilians hate getting things in 'Portuguese from Portugal' and Portuguese hate getting stuff in 'Brazilian Portuguese'. This confuses the issue even further for companies(not just Microsoft or software companies but ALL multinationals) that are run by & targeted at English speakers. - SteveMax, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3The government here is switching to open source software. First the applications, then the OS. Unless our next president is a Microsoft shill, this should happen before the kids that will start under this program next year are old enough to drive. Where I work, we're already over 80% Linux-only (and this is a government institution).
By the way, good attempt at Portuguese, but "Brasilianos" actually hurts :) It's very much like calling people from the US "Amerish", or people from England "Englanders".
- FairDinkumMate, on 04/24/2008, -0/+14Ever thought that 'your friend' may not be representative of all of Brazil?
- flatfish, on 04/24/2008, -1/+53This is an absolutely *huge* win for Linux and the students of Brazil. Hopefully this becomes a model for Linux deployment on a massive scale that others can learn from. Dugg because it's wonderful News IMHO.
- schestowitz, on 04/24/2008, -10/+116Biggest new so far this year for FOSS? Digg it up, please. Sweaty Ballmer must already be packing up a suitcase to go down south. It's one to watch because Microsoft won't give up easily.
- kretik, on 04/24/2008, -30/+8Is there a particular reason why successes like these must always be framed in the context of what Microsoft thinks of them?
- oldhick, on 04/24/2008, -30/+8Yes, because Linux newbies feel inadequate about their product and feel that it is the only LEGITIMATE OS. Once you've worked in the open source community and have some real world experience you usually mature and realize that the point isn't to displace Microsoft, rather the point is to create the worlds best software and experience. As long as you're happy with what you're doing and how its working you won't really give a ***** what others are doing.
- kretik, on 04/24/2008, -21/+5Looks like the Spamowitz bury brigade is out in force today.
- oldhick, on 04/24/2008, -21/+6Yup, diggers believe you can't love linux without hating microsoft... Too funny.
- acero47, on 04/24/2008, -1/+15Do you have any other accounts to use to agree with yourself?
- kretik, on 04/24/2008, -11/+2Nope. Just this one. And I do normally agree with myself.
You another one of Schez' many sockpuppets? - oldhick, on 04/25/2008, -6/+2Yeah, we are two different people believe it or not.
- init100, on 04/24/2008, -1/+11"Once you've worked in the open source community and have some real world experience you usually mature and realize that the point isn't to displace Microsoft, rather the point is to create the worlds best software and experience."
Or as Linus Torvalds put it:
"Really, I'm not out to destroy Microsoft. That will just be a completely unintentional side effect."- oldhick, on 04/25/2008, -1/+4Exactly.
- kretik, on 04/24/2008, -21/+5Looks like the Spamowitz bury brigade is out in force today.
- nmnnotmyname, on 04/24/2008, -1/+11Friendly reminder: Do not feed the troll.
- santasing, on 04/24/2008, -1/+18@kretik
Yes it is because when a similar deal was made in Nigeria last year, MS paid them off to use Windows instead of Mandriva. Even though the Mandriva licenses had been bought and paid for.
http://www.neowin.net/news/main/07/11/04/mandrivas ...
So, yea, it would be interesting to see MS's response.- kretik, on 04/24/2008, -18/+2Ah, I remember that now. It was something like "We're just developers and we know absolutely nothing about selling stuff to governments, so we got our asses nailed to the wall by someone who does, wah, life is so unfair and Mikkro$haft SUXXORZ, waaah".
- subgeniusd, on 04/24/2008, -1/+11WTF is that rambling drivel supposed to mean anyway?
If you aren't aware of the long history of MS anti-competitive activity then you need to visit the real world from time to time. - kretik, on 04/24/2008, -8/+1I'm not sure what your real world looks like, but in mine when you're doing business in Africa (I mean, Nigeria FFS) you bring gifts and graft to friendly government officials. That's the way it works, unfortunately. You think Microsoft is the only company that does business like that? Heh. It doesn't matter if you're selling software, farm equipment or AK-47s.
- santasing, on 04/24/2008, -0/+9SO, you are saying its ok for MS to be paying bribes to customers to get them to use their product. Much as I hate MS, I don't think you will ever get a job in their marketing dept. Maybe you will, who knows.
So, yea, MS cannot compete on its merits, just on marketing, FUD and good old bags of greenbacks. - kretik, on 04/24/2008, -8/+2No, I'm not saying it's OK, just how it works. It's a problem with the country and the culture. You would never do something like that in Norway or Singapore, for example.
And please, spare me the party line on how Microsoft can or cannot compete. - nmnnotmyname, on 04/25/2008, -0/+6lol. People who troll Linux always miss the point at first and then eventually they plead that it's not linux, its the this-or-that.
- subgeniusd, on 04/24/2008, -1/+11WTF is that rambling drivel supposed to mean anyway?
- kretik, on 04/24/2008, -18/+2Ah, I remember that now. It was something like "We're just developers and we know absolutely nothing about selling stuff to governments, so we got our asses nailed to the wall by someone who does, wah, life is so unfair and Mikkro$haft SUXXORZ, waaah".
- oldhick, on 04/24/2008, -30/+8Yes, because Linux newbies feel inadequate about their product and feel that it is the only LEGITIMATE OS. Once you've worked in the open source community and have some real world experience you usually mature and realize that the point isn't to displace Microsoft, rather the point is to create the worlds best software and experience. As long as you're happy with what you're doing and how its working you won't really give a ***** what others are doing.
- leerayIG88, on 04/24/2008, -0/+4Just watch....they will make another OS that's like XP. "Vista the Experience"
- destraht, on 04/24/2008, -15/+3BREAKING NEWS: Brazil has canceled their Linux venture. They will be receiving Windows at half cost. Apparently there was a hitch with the accessibility features in their schools. Yay! This is a win for gimps all around the world.
- jjesusfreak01, on 04/24/2008, -0/+5More like Microsoft just gives them Windows for free to keep them off of Linux
- ejhdigdug, on 04/24/2008, -4/+2Good For Linux, Microsoft wouldn't have done this if Linux wasn't an option. Now the Brazillians can learn Photoshop and other programs not available for Linux.
- expert01, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1Source? Citation?
- esfisher, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3'cause he totally wasn't joking...
- antdude, on 04/24/2008, -0/+6Chairs too.
- modifiedbears, on 04/24/2008, -8/+2Yea we all know Microsoft is the only company that tries to protect it's financial interests.
- Wakuko, on 04/25/2008, -0/+5A suitcase full of dollars to bribe every politician to impose new laws to "protect" the children.
And donations to every school, more dollars for the principal and discounted windows for their students.
That's their way! - kiwimonk, on 04/25/2008, -6/+1Highly doubtful.. Microsoft is probably happy, thats 52 Million less users pirating their OS ;)
- santasing, on 04/25/2008, -0/+7You really don't know how the real world works, do you?
- yuanzhoulu, on 04/25/2008, -1/+0Ballmer is fit to use torrents
because torrents are for sweaty people.
- kretik, on 04/24/2008, -30/+8Is there a particular reason why successes like these must always be framed in the context of what Microsoft thinks of them?
- DeviateSeptum, on 04/24/2008, -16/+54It would be good to have someone ask the US presidential candidates about open-source in the American schools. Too bad the media doesn't care about actual issues anymore.
- Dumbledorito, on 04/24/2008, -6/+31Somehow, given the gravity of other things going on in the world, "what OS do you favor" doesn't seem to rank all that high on the "real issues o-meter."
And voting for someone based on what allows a candidate to update his/her facebook account seems about as important, currently, as deciding your vote on if they would outfit our troops with the "blotchy" or "pixel" camouflage uniforms.- inbred, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Hmm...but "blotchy" vs "pixel" can make a difference over whether you get shot, or not. As far as I understand, the "pixely" look works better.
- shinythingy, on 04/24/2008, -6/+9Yes ***** the on going war and all the other ***** going on, this is much more important
- DutchGuilder, on 04/24/2008, -2/+17Yeah, good idea, beause a candidate's opinion on open-source is my #1 concern ... right after Iraq, Iran, "terrorism", economy, outsourcing, immigration, currency devalution, national debt, trade imbalance, PACs, lobbiests, earmarks, oil prices, global warming, disenfranchisement, prohibition, health care, social security, middle East, first ammendment, fifth ammendment, supreme court, race relations, energy policy, NAFTA, China, North Korea, Cuba, privacy, ethics, monetary policy, patent reform, tort reform, Wall Street bailouts, and subsidies.
- subgeniusd, on 04/24/2008, -0/+3You forgot pollution, deforestation and coral reef bleaching. And also forgot that this is a tech zone.
- MethodOne, on 04/24/2008, -0/+4Don't forget Manbearpig, if the president lieks Mudkip at the moment, goatse, Tub Girl, Rick Rolls, availability of Wiis, Apple fanboys, smug, the attack on U.S. military bases by The Pokemon Company, Jesus' second coming, riots during game console launches, and DDoS attacks occuring because of a Web page's popularity.
- nixfu, on 04/24/2008, -3/+10It might not seem relevant to many people, but it does speak to the question of "Are you for WASTING public money for no good reason, when low cost freely available alternatives exist?"
- pojut, on 04/24/2008, -2/+3There is one thing you are forgetting: widespread adoption of Linux amongst businesses and the US government would require a lot of training for workers.
I'm not sure if you are aware of this, but corporate training is crazy expensive. Not just in the cost of the training itself, but also insofar as the cost from lost time due to training.
In the long run, sure, it would likely be cheaper...but...- radix2, on 04/24/2008, -0/+2Actually this would be a fair comment, if it wasn't for the fact that a) people adapt quite well once they know what a system *should* be able to do, and b) Windows versions can be sufficiently different for people to have to learn their way around again. Lets not even get into the Office 2007 Ribbon menu debacle. We have actually had to defer deployment of O2007 because our users have stated they need training. We (IT) are ready to go from a deployment standpoint - press a button and it will go to 2000 users, but our users want us to hold back.
However, those who support the different OSs do need to training...
- radix2, on 04/24/2008, -0/+2Actually this would be a fair comment, if it wasn't for the fact that a) people adapt quite well once they know what a system *should* be able to do, and b) Windows versions can be sufficiently different for people to have to learn their way around again. Lets not even get into the Office 2007 Ribbon menu debacle. We have actually had to defer deployment of O2007 because our users have stated they need training. We (IT) are ready to go from a deployment standpoint - press a button and it will go to 2000 users, but our users want us to hold back.
- ejhdigdug, on 04/24/2008, -6/+1Yes, learn Linux and become irrelevant to most of the jobs out there.
Maybe we'll let you run the server farm.- ratrip, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1If you know Linux, MS' Fisher Price OS is a piece of cake. Become a Windows button operator and you are only as good as the version you were brainwashed with.
- radix2, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Of course it is a well known fact that you can only know *one* operating system at a time. As soon as you line a shell command, you can know longer open up the control panel in windows or modify a GPO.
- pojut, on 04/24/2008, -2/+3There is one thing you are forgetting: widespread adoption of Linux amongst businesses and the US government would require a lot of training for workers.
- delafield, on 04/24/2008, -1/+6The STATE govenments in the US should be worried about what OS is on the desktop, not the FEDERAL government. This is the beauty of a federal system. As mentioned by others, the federal government has more important things to worry about. I just wish the US feds would keep their noses out of other state issues - such as, well don't get me started.
- SteveMax, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2I, for one, believe that a national agreement on something as important as the quality of education the children are getting is important. Imagine if kids from one state learn Linux, OS X and Windows, while kids from another state aren't allowed near a computer because "it's a tool of the Devil" or something. Which state will have qualified workers 10-15 years later?
Some things are better managed by the states, yes; but some things should have strategic important for the whole country. Education surely is one of them.
- SteveMax, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2I, for one, believe that a national agreement on something as important as the quality of education the children are getting is important. Imagine if kids from one state learn Linux, OS X and Windows, while kids from another state aren't allowed near a computer because "it's a tool of the Devil" or something. Which state will have qualified workers 10-15 years later?
- ejhdigdug, on 04/24/2008, -1/+1Implying that it is an actual issue.
- griz, on 04/25/2008, -3/+1And how exactly is that going to lower the price I pay for a gallon of gas?
- DeviateSeptum, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3Half of the commenters so far are morons. I never said it was the #1 issue. And just because there is a #1 issue doesn't mean you can't talk about non-#1 issues. And this is an important issue that could save billions at the federal and state level.
- Dumbledorito, on 04/24/2008, -6/+31Somehow, given the gravity of other things going on in the world, "what OS do you favor" doesn't seem to rank all that high on the "real issues o-meter."
- SuperWinner, on 04/24/2008, -13/+69Ubuntu 8 is genius. I know some of you will say "Linux in general is genius" and thats true, but Man Ubuntu, they just have it down cold now. I have never seen Linux be so easy to install (wubi runs right from the iso, no cd's to burn!), so flawlessly working right out of the box, and so smooth and easy to use after install. To watch the growth of this product over the next 2 years is going to be awe inspiring.
- diatonic1, on 04/24/2008, -5/+11Installed 8.04 LTS final today, and I would not call it flawless. Sound doesn't work right, so I'm sure I'll be chasing down a few issues.
- tehjarvis, on 04/24/2008, -1/+6Tell me about it. More problems trying out Hardy than I ever had with Gutsy. Sound is screwed up, laptop goes into hibernation/standby and won't come out (even when I turn both off), Mouse cursor would mysteriously disapeer and I'd have to crtl+alt+backspace and the problem would still be there...causing me to have to reboot.
Never had those problems out of the box with gutsy.- Hermmunster, on 04/24/2008, -0/+5I reported a lot of laptop issues with Canonical regarding sound, wifi, and compiz. I guess my voice wasn't loud enough and not enough people use Linux on a laptop. On a dual boot windows/ubuntu 7.10 install I had sound & compiz working though sound was a bit of a pain. I had compiz working without even typing a keystroke.
With 8.04 sound doesn't work, wifi is totally out the door as it locks up my machine and compiz is non-existent.
Under Windows the sound works, video works, wifi works without issue.
I'm a linux user. Day in day out every day all day I use linux. On that particular laptop I use it because i like to show off linux to my customers. The laptop is the easy way. I love linux, so my comments here aren't to dump on linux. It is only to point out that Canonical knew about this stuff and that the laptop support is falling by the wayside.
I don't really feel like spending the next 3-6 months trying to get it all worked out only to have the next release bork even more of it.
- Hermmunster, on 04/24/2008, -0/+5I reported a lot of laptop issues with Canonical regarding sound, wifi, and compiz. I guess my voice wasn't loud enough and not enough people use Linux on a laptop. On a dual boot windows/ubuntu 7.10 install I had sound & compiz working though sound was a bit of a pain. I had compiz working without even typing a keystroke.
- nixfu, on 04/24/2008, -6/+15I installed Microsoft Windows yesterday on a laptop...sound and network don't work right, so I'm sure I'll be chasing down a few issues.
- daviddiaz, on 04/24/2008, -0/+6I actually installed Hardy when it was still in Beta (I believe I did so like 3 weeks ago) and even though it wasn't final it was working flawlessly on my desktop. even my wireless card, which never worked before under linux, worked out of the box.
I'm sure it has issues, but I feel that it has come very far along from what it used to be when I first tried it (Breezy). Even in 2005, however, when it was pretty rough around the edges, it still managed not only to surprise me, but to finally make me switch to linux. - MoClippa, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Yah sound is the issue, i have to shut down the damn music player every time I want to watch a youtube video with sound... for some reason they managed to cause major conflicts across the sound board... I suppose its an easy software fix that should come in a few days or so, but its still a glaring issue for an official launch.
Still an all round great release though, and can't wait to see where they take this distribution in the future.- daengbo, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Actually, it's not an easy software fix. They originally used libflashsupport to make Flash use Pulse Audio like everything else on the desktop does, but they couldn't stabilize it and had too many browser crashes. They took out libflashsupport about a week ago, letting Flash talk directly to ALSA again, causing the problem you're referring to. It's not likely to get fixed, though. Sorry.
- tehjarvis, on 04/24/2008, -1/+6Tell me about it. More problems trying out Hardy than I ever had with Gutsy. Sound is screwed up, laptop goes into hibernation/standby and won't come out (even when I turn both off), Mouse cursor would mysteriously disapeer and I'd have to crtl+alt+backspace and the problem would still be there...causing me to have to reboot.
- jadrian, on 04/24/2008, -7/+1"I have never seen Linux be so easy to install"... This is useless information unless you add what others you tried tried.
- i4ybrid, on 04/24/2008, -1/+2They don't have it cold, my Radeon HD still won't work with the drivers that are provided by ATI or third party drivers.
- zateam, on 04/25/2008, -0/+4Uhm, blame ATi for ***** Linux driver support.
- jewbagel, on 04/25/2008, -2/+0I think that's the dumbest thing I've ever read.
- expert01, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2I know, why blame the company that made the product? That's like blaming Ford for making a V8 that only runs two cylinders.
Oh wait... that actually doesn't make sense, and ATI needs to step it up. The documentation releases were good, but they need to dedicate some people to driver development.
- expert01, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2I know, why blame the company that made the product? That's like blaming Ford for making a V8 that only runs two cylinders.
- jewbagel, on 04/25/2008, -2/+0I think that's the dumbest thing I've ever read.
- yuanzhoulu, on 04/25/2008, -1/+0that is true. i just installed ubuntu 8.04 today. i'm a linux geek so i know how to tweak everything as i need it, but here are things that i could NOT figure out how to do from the GUI that i ought to be able to:
- disable one of my two soundcards entirely (one is built into the motherboard; the second is the much better soundcard i installed)
- enable composite on nvidia drivers
- configure the system to automatically mount my USB external hard drives by uuid into specific mountpoints that stay the same every time they are plugged in
- reconfigure X, sound card, or anything else. dpkg-reconfigure sucks compared to the real installer, for one when configuring xserver-xorg it doesn't even present you with a list of possible keyboard layouts and just asks you to name one, while the initial installer gives you a nice list.
- fully install chinese input via scim by GUI
- add interface languages to the system
- init 3 did not work, and having X configurations that crashed (say, known xserver bugs) sucked because gdm was all too forceful in starting even in "safe mode" and there was no obvious command line mode at startup. this would be useful to have even for novices because experts can tell them "log into command line mode and type this, and you should have X working"
- zateam, on 04/25/2008, -0/+4Uhm, blame ATi for ***** Linux driver support.
- newwatch51, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1I don't know about Hardy, but Gusty runs horribly on my computer.
- diatonic1, on 04/24/2008, -5/+11Installed 8.04 LTS final today, and I would not call it flawless. Sound doesn't work right, so I'm sure I'll be chasing down a few issues.
- 0L1VER, on 04/24/2008, -6/+31Wow - that's an enormous breakthrough! Thanks for posting.
- aajjcckk, on 04/24/2008, -7/+108Watch out for Microsoft pulling every trick in the book to apply political pressure to have this reversed and MS software force-fed to the Brazilian school system.
I'll BET you that shortly we'll see the US Government threaten various trade reductions and other penalties to Brazil, as Microsoft buddies up with it's best pals in Washington and starts pulling strings. Look what happened a couple of weeks ago with the outrageous OOXML ISO standards vote. If they can pull that *****, beating Brazil into submission on this is possible too.
Trust me, however evil you think Microsoft can be - they can be more evil.- aajjcckk, on 04/24/2008, -0/+44Oh, and in case you think I'm being alarmist, check out this comment from below the linked story:
"I was in Thailand when they made a similar announcement several years ago, though it was only around 1M. MS came in, made some back-room deals involving threats of BSA-style audits of the government (Thailand's piracy rate was huge), and the whole year-long movement toward FOSS was derailed in a week."- destraht, on 04/24/2008, -1/+7but I bet they saved a few dollars on their Windows license.
- patcito, on 04/24/2008, -0/+7You are being alarmist, Brazil has a long history of giving the finger to Microsoft. They've been using linux extensively in the government already and in various institutions. Linux is huge over there and many people make a living out of it. Google for brazil+linux and you'll see. There is even a law that makes the use of free software in public institutions mandatory.
- aajjcckk, on 04/24/2008, -1/+2I only hope you're right.
- daengbo, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3That was my comment. I was there. It wasn't pretty. The Minister of ICT was replaced by a Microsoftee and came out in the paper calling FOSS junk and unusable. Meh. They dismantled most of NECTEC's OpenTLE team which were working on the previously "to be" national OS.
Brazil looks to be doing better than Thailand did, though. More power to them.
- satch777, on 04/24/2008, -16/+2Microsoft is a great American company, you communist.
- nmnnotmyname, on 04/24/2008, -1/+8So great it has to be monitored by antitrust and pays ISO to get it's standard that doesn't even apply to the program that utilizes it.
So ethical it is with it's business practices I tell you...
(Or, stay with me here, it COULD be that single companies should never have that much power? Just maybe...) - nixfu, on 04/24/2008, -0/+6"great"
You keepa using thata worda..I do not think that word means what you think it means. - TheZorch, on 04/24/2008, -0/+3And if you believe Microsoft is so great then you're an idiot.
- subgeniusd, on 04/24/2008, -1/+5The Mafia is a great American enterprise, you communist.
- Atomic1fire, on 04/25/2008, -3/+2Communist?
Communists expect everyone to be payed the same
Linux System admin will probably be payed much more then the guy typing word documents in open office or avoiding work playing the games featured on gnome such as aisleriot the freecell+several other card games clone
- nmnnotmyname, on 04/24/2008, -1/+8So great it has to be monitored by antitrust and pays ISO to get it's standard that doesn't even apply to the program that utilizes it.
- TheZorch, on 04/24/2008, -1/+12I believe you 100%. Look at how thoroughly they derailed deployment of Mandriva based PCs in African schools that one time. The company is evil, anti-competitive, and needs to be put on a very tight leash with a spiked choker chain to keep it under control to prevent such things from happening in the future. I'm hoping that whoever becomes the next Prez in the US puts pressure on Microsoft again in the courts to start playing nice in the market or else.
- thaSpotsDOTcom, on 04/24/2008, -3/+1MS will lose a lot to get this deal. Everyone has a price.
- node3, on 04/24/2008, -0/+17This might be true in general, but Brazil is uniquely immune to these sorts of tactics. They are a very progressive country and very proactive on open source-style issues, as well as alternative fuel, which is a separate issue, but shows they have the fortitude to take on powerful interests when it comes to the good of the people.
- kronso23, on 04/24/2008, -1/+4I hope you're right node3
- sybesis, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3he's right....http://homembit.com/2008/04/odf-is-now-a-brazilian ...
OOXML will have to be a brazilian standard befor being adopted...ODF is by the way.
- sybesis, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3he's right....http://homembit.com/2008/04/odf-is-now-a-brazilian ...
- kronso23, on 04/24/2008, -1/+4I hope you're right node3
- aajjcckk, on 04/24/2008, -0/+44Oh, and in case you think I'm being alarmist, check out this comment from below the linked story:
- EwMo, on 04/24/2008, -2/+2152 Million people and 53,000 labs? That's pretty legit
- jmkiii, on 04/24/2008, -1/+6There is a lot of science going on here!
- leerayIG88, on 04/24/2008, -18/+12Brazilian women are sexy. Someday I will have a vacation there and have fun.
- afx1, on 04/24/2008, -0/+11dugg up for staying relevant
- Natnie, on 04/24/2008, -0/+7My cousin married a Brazilian woman. Gave my family a great excuse to see Brazil.
- garryw, on 04/24/2008, -1/+6they are cute but cook too much rice and beans
- Koppie, on 04/24/2008, -0/+10No such thing as too much rice & beans.
- expert01, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Unless it's that red rice. Can't stand it. Or pinto beans.
- Viroz, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1rice and beans rules. Never heard of red rice or pinto beans, also lol
- Koppie, on 04/24/2008, -0/+10No such thing as too much rice & beans.
- farkis, on 04/24/2008, -33/+3That's ***** everyone knows that Linux doesn't scale. Also it only uses non-standard usb connectors.
- alpha19, on 04/24/2008, -3/+13Do you even know what Linux is?
- afx1, on 04/24/2008, -0/+10i'm pretty sure he was being sarcastic
- init100, on 04/24/2008, -0/+6It's a brand of detergent. :P
- nmnnotmyname, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2lol, Wow, I remember that from a really long time ago. I can't believe someone brought it up again...
- nmnnotmyname, on 04/24/2008, -1/+7Uh huh.......
........
*saves to quotes.txt* - bowens44, on 04/24/2008, -0/+4Wrong on both counts......good for you! A man not afraid to flaunt his ignorance!
- alpha19, on 04/24/2008, -3/+13Do you even know what Linux is?
- sagat, on 04/24/2008, -3/+40I'm going to a major school semminar tomorrow with a number of school technology leaders from the East Coast where I fully intent to pop the Linux question.
- Tenement, on 04/24/2008, -2/+7Ah good to see our education system in its full glory--best of luck to you!
- Jerky1312, on 04/24/2008, -1/+9Take a few copies of the OpenEducationDisc and hand them out...
http://theopendisc.com/2007/10/14/openeducationdis ... - brettalton, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Or blog about it. Just don't get tasered like this guy: http://youtube.com/watch?v=6bVa6jn4rpE
- LifesBlogger, on 04/24/2008, -3/+22Wow nice breakthrough, Linux is develping into something i would have never expected!
- satch777, on 04/24/2008, -29/+8One Year Later : Massive Windows migration in Brazil; "We need software that the rest of the world uses!", cry educators....
- nmnnotmyname, on 04/24/2008, -1/+12Wow, really?
...
Really?
You do realize Linux and OSS can pretty much provide an all in one solution for almost everything?- ejhdigdug, on 04/24/2008, -10/+2"...almost everything."
The Almost is rather large.- nmnnotmyname, on 04/25/2008, -0/+6This is rather stupid.
Do i really have to go dig up my list-of-software-for-various-tasks? - satch777, on 04/25/2008, -10/+0Just the list of software for various tasks that people actually want to use without having to learn a fringe operating system.
FRINGE OPERATING SYSTEM. That's right. Fringe.- nmnnotmyname, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1We're talking about Linux not OS X...
- nmnnotmyname, on 04/25/2008, -0/+6This is rather stupid.
- ejhdigdug, on 04/24/2008, -10/+2"...almost everything."
- FairDinkumMate, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Why would Brazilians have any need or desire to use "the software that the rest of the world uses!"? They already use different software in that their software is in Brazilian Portuguese. Unfortunately a huge amount of the Brazilian Portuguese software available seems to have been translated using Babel Fish or the like & quite often although the commands have been translated the error messages still appear in English which causes problems for a lot of users.
Brazilians seem to have no problem doing their own thing with software. For exmaple, the most popular graphics software here isn't Photoshop, The Gimp or anything like it - it's Corel Draw! Yep, for some strange reason it has become the most popular here & is taught in schools/colleges as well so its dominance continues - weird huh? But it does show that because the vast majority of their computer based interaction is between themselves, compatibility is only really a major issue between themselves. I don't think it really matters "what the world uses" as much as "what works for Brazil"
- nmnnotmyname, on 04/24/2008, -1/+12Wow, really?
- sheebz, on 04/24/2008, -36/+8Linux still sucks on the desktop.
- nmnnotmyname, on 04/24/2008, -3/+16You do realize they are using it for desktop purposes, right?
- dood, on 04/24/2008, -25/+5I don't think that changes the the level of suck at play here.
- oblique63, on 04/24/2008, -1/+11your mom still sucks on the desktop...
- nmnnotmyname, on 04/24/2008, -3/+16You do realize they are using it for desktop purposes, right?
- tehbored, on 04/24/2008, -7/+11I've never used KDE. Is it really different from Gnome?
- diatonic1, on 04/24/2008, -0/+18Yes.
- nmnnotmyname, on 04/24/2008, -2/+24Very much so.
I prefer it, and mainly because of the file dialogs. GTK File Dialogs drive me absolutely ***** insane.- HoratioHellpop, on 04/24/2008, -0/+6What exactly is a "file dialog" ... are you talking about message windows? Or something else? (not trolling, just asking)
- jadrian, on 04/24/2008, -0/+9File dialog is the kind of window that shows up when you select "Save as" or "Open" in an application.
- jay019, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1I'd have to agree that KDE file dialogs are better, but I still prefer gnome...
when I'm taking a break from the best, fluxbox :)
- geneticlone, on 04/24/2008, -24/+5yeah it is uglier
- 1timeuser, on 04/24/2008, -3/+6Some people like it over gnome. It's too gimmicky for me but a lot of my friends prefer it. You might want to give it a try as it might work better for you.
- tehjarvis, on 04/24/2008, -2/+8More customizable, less hand holding.
- jadrian, on 04/24/2008, -2/+25Yes. Gnome is usually regarded as having a more simple interface (less options) and KDE a more powerful one.
However there is much more to it than that. Gnome is based on a Gtk+ and KDE on Qt. The latter is much easier to program in, and more powerful, safe and modular. That alone gives KDE a huge advantage! There are plenty of amazing KDE applications out there (Amarok for music, K3B to burn CD/DVDs, KPDF to view pdfs, KOffice is becoming an outstanding office suite, and I could go on and on). Looking at the Gnome field, there are very very few applications with such a high quality.
KDE has 2 main branches right now. KDE 3.5, this is a very stable one that came out already 2 years ago! And KDE 4.0, the very beginning of the new generation KDE, still not very stable but impressive tecnology. KDE 4.1 will be out in the Summer. You can see how far ahead KDE is when compared to Gnome when you realize that the latest Gnome version is not ahead of the 2 year old KDE 3.5 in any way, despite the fact that the KDE team has been focusing mainly of KDE 4 since then.
- intangible, on 04/24/2008, -13/+8I wouldn't say KDE's interface was more powerful, I'd say more cluttered, incongruous, and shiny. But then again, I don't get all that excited about shiny things.
- neko, on 04/24/2008, -1/+11Qt is awesome. They've got practically everything but the kitchen sink in that library. The software we are developing at work is done in Qt - although I run it on my gnome desktop and we're using the Tango iconset (Never did like the default KDE icons..)
- fritzek, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2KDE 4 rocks! I hope all the bugs will be fixed soon.
- unitedatheism, on 04/25/2008, -7/+1KDE 4 is awful!
It's kde with the look of Windows Vista... Everyone who's adept to Windows Vista will love KDE 4, but not me, I've never used Windows Vista and I'm not willing to start now with KDE 4.... I'll keep my 3.5 for all that I care, but hey that's an opinion thing, right? At least KDE 4 is not 5x bloated then it's previous like it happened to Windows..
- unitedatheism, on 04/25/2008, -7/+1KDE 4 is awful!
- anonyjames, on 04/25/2008, -5/+0I've never had dried apples. What are they?
- CAPITALLETTERS, on 04/25/2008, -7/+1It tries to look too much like Windows, just take a look at where everything is located:
Windows:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/8/8f/Wind ...
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/54/Wind ...
KDE:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c3 ...- SteveMax, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2The beauty of KDE is that it can look like pretty much anything you want. It even gives you the option to keep the current application's menu bar at the top of the screen, Mac-style; it can look like Gnome (application choosers, system tray and clock on the top, taskbar and quick links on the bottom) if you want to, with little effort, or really any way you may want. I find it much better to spend 30 minutes tweaking the system to maximize my efficiency than to stay below optimal efficiency for years due to the OS not behaving exactly the way I want.
- shanesemler, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1It can look like anything except minimalist. KDE is a visual mess and it always has been and will continue to be in the future. It's over the top gloss and gradients.
- SteveMax, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Search around kdelook.org, you'd be surprised at the variety. In the first couple of pages (sorted by highest ranked) might be Plastik-heavy, but there are some beautiful minimalistic themes afterwards.
- shanesemler, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1It can look like anything except minimalist. KDE is a visual mess and it always has been and will continue to be in the future. It's over the top gloss and gradients.
- SteveMax, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2The beauty of KDE is that it can look like pretty much anything you want. It even gives you the option to keep the current application's menu bar at the top of the screen, Mac-style; it can look like Gnome (application choosers, system tray and clock on the top, taskbar and quick links on the bottom) if you want to, with little effort, or really any way you may want. I find it much better to spend 30 minutes tweaking the system to maximize my efficiency than to stay below optimal efficiency for years due to the OS not behaving exactly the way I want.
- missilesilo, on 04/24/2008, -5/+16Horray for Linux! Let's hear it for Linux! Woo!!
- diatonic1, on 04/24/2008, -1/+13Who's to say that some of those 52 million aren't already Linux users?
- moghua, on 04/24/2008, -3/+28Only 52 million? Obviously Linux is not ready for the desktop! :)
- ohplease, on 04/24/2008, -12/+1It certainly isn't ready for the corporate desktop, which explains why it's practically non existant in that market segment.
- Hermmunster, on 04/24/2008, -0/+5Honestly Linux is more mature than most OSes that gained their start in the corporate world. In fact, it is massively more capable than anything DOS had to offer when it was being heavily used in the corporate world. Linux is certainly more capable than Win 3.x, Win for WG, Win95, Win98, WinME, and is certainly capable in an excess of ways better than Win2k, and now even WinXP. Vista is a no contest as it just isn't something anyone should want.
Everything business can do on the desktop they can do with Linux and have access to it in spades. On servers, to productivity applications, to document formats, to video, audio, etc.
What differentiates Linux from Windows XP is gaming. I don't see anything wrong with having Windows become the gaming platform and little else while Linux overtakes all comers on the productivity front. In fact, it is inevitable. XP gaming is fine. When more and more millions begin to use Linux you'll see more and more people preferring it as their desktop later. Just like with Windows and the Mac. People that came out of schools with Apple experience used Apples at home and at work. Same with Windows and Microsoft knows this. More people will choose the alternative out of that 52,000,000 potential users. When they see it is free, they'll love it even more. As a student I would have chosen what was free as long as it saved me the money and I could buy the things I needed and wanted.- ohplease, on 05/01/2008, -0/+0
Learn about active directory and group policy objects. There's a reason enterprise architects use windows. It isn't because they are fanboys.
- ohplease, on 05/01/2008, -0/+0
- tj111, on 04/24/2008, -0/+8That would also explain why OS X is practically non-existent in the corporate world, because its, you know, not ready. They are non-existent because of the huge infrastructure under hauling that needs to take place to move away from a Windows environment.
- moghua, on 04/24/2008, -0/+2That doesn't explain why, for example, IBM sells Linux desktop client software and services to other corporations.
http://www-306.ibm.com/software/info/features/linu ... - tripzero, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1fyi: Microsoft also sells Linux (suse)
- ninja0, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1wtf? for real? That seems unlikely to me
- Hermmunster, on 04/24/2008, -0/+5Honestly Linux is more mature than most OSes that gained their start in the corporate world. In fact, it is massively more capable than anything DOS had to offer when it was being heavily used in the corporate world. Linux is certainly more capable than Win 3.x, Win for WG, Win95, Win98, WinME, and is certainly capable in an excess of ways better than Win2k, and now even WinXP. Vista is a no contest as it just isn't something anyone should want.
- ohplease, on 04/24/2008, -12/+1It certainly isn't ready for the corporate desktop, which explains why it's practically non existant in that market segment.
- geneticlone, on 04/24/2008, -3/+12Correction, 52 Million "Potential" new users.
- jjesusfreak01, on 04/24/2008, -11/+1And remember these are passive users. Whats to say they get to install anything, mess with anything. If you dont mod your software, you arent really a linux user. These people will likely be fine with linux for a few years, and then move to MS when they graduate.
- Tyr7BE, on 04/24/2008, -0/+4Remember that most kids in US schools who are Windows users are passive users. What's to say they get to install anything, mess with anything. If you don't mod your software, you aren't really a Windows user. These people are likely fine with Windows for a few years and then keep using MS when they graduate. After all it's what they're used to, why would they switch?
- jay019, on 04/26/2008, -0/+0And remember these kids were taught how to use windows, not how to use computers.
- jjesusfreak01, on 04/24/2008, -11/+1And remember these are passive users. Whats to say they get to install anything, mess with anything. If you dont mod your software, you arent really a linux user. These people will likely be fine with linux for a few years, and then move to MS when they graduate.
- Daniel591992, on 04/24/2008, -2/+21I plan on installing Ubuntu on my aunt's American Vista laptop so she can finally get an OS in her own language. Why does Microsoft force you to upgrade to Ultimate just to change the language? No thanks.
- sybesis, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2there is also the fact that same if you change the language of the OS windows will not change the language of every apps. In other word, on linux, you'll get every piece of software that have a language support for the language you choose. I use gnome and every software (95%) of the gnome desktop environement haves a language pack for something like 35 different language or more. When i move it to russian, it's pretty cool that most of my application are auto magically translated to russian...or to french...or to japenese or to english. This is not like having windows in russian but having firefox and all of the non windows apps in english.
- Awspire, on 04/24/2008, -29/+1I wonder how long it will take for all the ***** linux hype to destroy commercial software, and end a multi-billion dollar industry, thereby sending software technologies to the dark ages. Enjoy your subpar apps.
Between piracy and linux hype, I'm surprised commercial software ventures are still profitable.- bowens44, on 04/24/2008, -0/+16I haven't used a sub par app since I ***** canned windows.
- ejhdigdug, on 04/24/2008, -4/+2I have.
- ejhdigdug, on 04/24/2008, -0/+4First we'll have to get rid of the "free" versions of commercial software available on p2p.
- sybesis, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1easy stop making open source torrent and p2p softwares...
- sybesis, on 04/25/2008, -0/+4linux isn't killing commercial software...commercial software are possible on linux, and thats a rising market.
- newwatch51, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1If commercial software is so much better, why do you predict that open source will destroy it?
- jay019, on 04/26/2008, -0/+0Dude, commercial software is killing commercial software!
- bowens44, on 04/24/2008, -0/+16I haven't used a sub par app since I ***** canned windows.
- serif69, on 04/24/2008, -8/+152 million unhatched chickens
- Juaquin, on 04/24/2008, -24/+6Before some Linuxtard says it: No, this isn't the year of the linux desktop. Nor is next year nor the year after that. Let it go and enjoy your superior operating system.
- HALL9000, on 04/24/2008, -4/+3stfu! it's decade of Linux ! and by the end of this decade m$ will DOOMED !
- PyroChan, on 04/24/2008, -7/+1i dont mind paying money for a product that wasent made by gay people.
- sybesis, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1hey were are not talking about Macs here!!!
- PyroChan, on 04/24/2008, -7/+1i dont mind paying money for a product that wasent made by gay people.
- Hermmunster, on 04/24/2008, -5/+8Linuxtard v. Microtard. Sounds like the same thing. At least most Linuxtards use their brains and analyze and solve the problems. Microtards, hmmmm, lemmings come to mind.
And, in case you don't understand it, Linux is ready for the desktop and has been for a couple years. - unitedatheism, on 04/25/2008, -1/+5Hey! It's the year of the desktop Linux!
- HALL9000, on 04/24/2008, -4/+3stfu! it's decade of Linux ! and by the end of this decade m$ will DOOMED !
- sheebz, on 04/24/2008, -12/+2Who in the hell is that dork in the picture?
- mrigns, on 04/24/2008, -0/+6Aaron Seigo, currently in charge of KDE e.v.
- al11588, on 04/25/2008, -1/+0one word WOW. another word GAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYy
- jay019, on 04/26/2008, -0/+0Your probably not his type tho, keep looking.
- al11588, on 04/25/2008, -1/+0one word WOW. another word GAYYYYYYYYYYYYYYy
- mrigns, on 04/24/2008, -0/+6Aaron Seigo, currently in charge of KDE e.v.
- SubKamran, on 04/24/2008, -24/+5I installed Ubuntu on my virtual machine. It took about half an hour before I threw my hands up in frustration because it broke.
Linux will never go mainstream (for consumers), unfortunately, because people who don't know that Internet Explorer ISN'T the Internet itself (most people) will never be able to use it. And the only way for it to go mainstream is to make it like Windows, thus becoming a clone again. Maybe we're all idiots for using Windows/Mac but dammit it works and it runs all my software and games.- HoratioHellpop, on 04/24/2008, -0/+12Disclaimer: windows fanboi here... you couldn't get Ubuntu running in a *virtual machine* ... so therefore it's useless as a desktop OS?
Come again? - Hermmunster, on 04/24/2008, -0/+4If you can't get it running in a virtual machine about about getting it running as a regular OS on the machine? Virtual Machines bring with them their own difficulties.
And, as for Internet Explorer, well I beg to differ with you on how people perceive the internet. You should just dig deeper and try to come up with a way to help those educationally challenged folks and let them know that there are alternatives to IE, such as firefox or opera or many others. If the Mac crowd can take to the internet via safari then the rest of the world can learn firefox or opera. - kIdFrY, on 04/24/2008, -1/+3You gave up in less than 30 minutes? Boy, it must have felt like the end of the world there! I share your massive frustration too...!
- IronDonut, on 04/25/2008, -1/+0You know... some people have more important ***** to do than tend to a tempermental operating system. We get paid to accomplish things. In these cases we choose tools that get the job done quickest and with the least amount of hassle.
You can bash the Windows OSes all you want. But it's really hard to beat their ease of use, reliability, hardware compatibility, and their ease of setup and configuration.- gameforge, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2> But it's really hard to beat their ease of use, reliability, hardware compatibility, and their ease of setup and configuration.
No it's not; some of that's absurd - Ubuntu has been (far) easier to install than Windows for years, for one thing, and UNIX is NEVER unstable unless it's because of eccentric/closed-up/proprietary hardware. Linux isn't even that great of a UNIX kernel, but its hardware support puts any other in history to shame; it's not exactly difficult to scrape a Linux-ready computer together these days. It needs a fraction of the hardware capacity as other OS' to be equally as productive.
Still, with respect to both you and the parent, I don't think you've ever used another OS with the goal of making it work better for you than Windows - not in recent time anyway. Build a computer specifically with Linux in mind, and then (if you must) buy a support license from Canonical - you'll be amazed at what Windows isn't. Then build a computer with components that aren't Vista certified, and see how wonderful it is... it has a far nastier temper than Ubuntu does.
Even better, just use the same install of Windows every day for a few years - see what happens to it. I've been upgrading my Kubuntu for well over two years now (it's had four distribution version upgrades in that time) and it's just like it was the day I installed it... I've even changed out the guts of the computer since then, and it didn't blink an eye, except to ask for my password while it installed a new proprietary video driver.
If it were Windows, the registry would be a giant pulsating tumor ready to explode gangrene all over itself; whether it's Windows or the way I drive my computers, it's the truth.
My point is, you can't use Windows for a decade and a half, and then spend 30 minutes on Ubuntu and throw your arms in the air; that's just being a pretentious jackass - if all he wants is Windows without paying, by all means he can pirate away. Same goes for anyone who starts installing UNIX at 2:30 and gives up by 3:00 because it's not an exact replica of Windows.
With FOSS, the software doesn't own your computer hardware - you don't have to worry about licensing, or what might happen if you want to move your OS to a new computer. You don't have to worry about code saying "you can't do this, because you have no right" - what if you upgraded to 64-bit? Would Windows just say "oh okay, well I'll just install the 64-bit version now"? Not with most versions. It *should*... it's the same price, and you presumably will no longer be using the 32-bit machine anymore, right....?
You do, however, have to make UNIX work for you, just exactly like you did with Windows. Isn't that blatantly obvious?- IronDonut, on 04/25/2008, -1/+0I re-read your post and it just make less sense every time I look at it until I realise that you're not playing with Linux for business purposes. You're playing with Linux to play with Linux. And if it's hobby that cool.
I don't have a lot of time to school you here but it seems like you need some massive help. When you are providing a computer service, writing software, for a business to make money and not just ***** around in your spare time a whole set of different priorities take shape.
You're talking about building computers up on the cheap, rigging video cards, basically wasting a whole lot of time and effort playing with crap that that shouldn't even cross your mind. Our needs are high density enterprise level servers with a degree of redundancy. So it's important to us that we be able to buy Dell or HP rack mount servers load them quickly without being hassled and have them run 24/7 for a few years without giving me any problems.
My choices are spend a whole lot of time trying to get Linux to run on each new iteration of server hardware and be hassled or spend my time in a more productive manner by using Windows Server where I can have a box up and running and racked inside of an hour and be on to more productive tasks.
And finally... Windows Server gives you more options than Linux. Windows Server runs all of the Linux open source software AND all of the Microsoft .NET and server software. - HoratioHellpop, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1//So it's important to us that we be able to buy Dell or HP rack mount servers load them quickly without being hassled and have them run 24/7 for a few years without giving me any problems.// Windows fanboi here again .... i've administered both Windows and LInux servers for over 12 years. I've *NEVER* seen a Windows box go 24/7 for "a few years" ... much less a few months. I call utter *****, unless you're using Windows servers that are in no way ever connected to the Internet.
- gameforge, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1@IronDonut
Way to pigeon-hole me, there. First of all, I exclusively use Linux, and have for over five years, except of course for games - but I started "playing" with Linux ten years ago, when I ran a 5,000 user RADIUS WAN all with Slackware on kernel 2.0.x offering all major Internet services, from dial-up Internet to frame relay to then-very new DSL.. We also built colocated Linux servers and routers and offered other misc. networking services. I didn't have to look at most of the servers I built for years at a time, let alone worry about them staying up.
I'm terribly sorry it takes you up to an hour to set up your Windows servers; that would aggravate the hell out of me.
You apparently have misread this thread, as it was about consumers using Linux as a desktop. The article, for instance, talks about deploying Linux on the desktop at schools in Brazil - many schools use used/donated hardware that's anything but enterprise class, and so do most consumers. I was also replying to the idiot who tried out Ubuntu for 30 minutes in a VM and gave up, contending that Linux won't ever work for consumers.
So obviously when you started babbling about money and hardware compatibility, I thought you were one of those work-from-home people that used spreadsheets and email to make running your small business easy and simple; why else would you talk about a consumer/desktop PC in such terms?
But what the hell, you seem like you're in a mood to bicker about it anyway :)
Your argument seems to be that, since Linux can be time consuming to make work as a desktop OS with video acceleration and stuff on old PC hardware, that's why you won't be putting it on your rackmount servers with basically generic and/or Linux certified server hardware and possibly no video card at all. You keep talking about being hassled, and spending all of this extra time - doing what? Watching the progress indicator in the installer for ten minutes? What did you find so time-consuming on UNIX? Whatever it is, just tell me and I'll tell you what you were doing wrong.
You mention Dell and HP - try Sun and IBM. Far better hardware, and either proprietary or FOSS software. Your pick. See, I said it's easy and cheap to get Linux-ready hardware; you can certainly buy the most expensive high class stuff on the market as well, if you like. You're arguing a strawman.
Let's be honest - you're an enterprise MS guy, and you don't know UNIX - if Windows goes away, your job goes away. You have absolutely no real-world experience whatsoever with UNIX in *any* environment to make a valid comparison with Windows; your bicker is all ad hominem against strawmen, all targeting Linux (and myself).
You're here defending your job and that's it. Why else would someone who has so many better things to do and so little time to teach "newbs" like me be hanging out in the bicker-fest section on Digg reading desktop Linux articles? ;) Gotcha there, didn't I?
My argument stands entirely. Learn how to use UNIX, and *you* figure out how to get it to save money for you and your customers, just like plenty of companies, governments, schools, etc. have done around the world. At least cough up an example of some horribly time consuming experience you had with Linux; I'm up for a good laugh. - IronDonut, on 05/05/2008, -0/+0Douchebag... I was CTO of a technology company with thousands of Linux systems running in production. My comments are drawn from real world experience. My techs were constantly fighting to keep the OS and hardware drivers of those Linux systems running. We had a full time guy that did nothing but keep those systems alive.
Previous to that I spent years at a huge investment bank that ran Solaris and HP Unix. Now I own the company and we use Windows 2003 server. Why? Because it saves time on the admin side, the install side and there are always drivers available for any hardware platform we run.
This is always the ploy you Linux/UNIX nerds use "well if you don't like Linux/UNIX you must not understand it. You're ignorant, you're stupid, etc." To the contrary I've spent a large part of my career working on and with Linux/UNIX systems and while I wouldn't deploy a bank database on Windows 2003 for mid-range server computing it's a better solution because it saves labor and associated labor costs.
- IronDonut, on 04/25/2008, -1/+0I re-read your post and it just make less sense every time I look at it until I realise that you're not playing with Linux for business purposes. You're playing with Linux to play with Linux. And if it's hobby that cool.
- IronDonut, on 04/25/2008, -1/+0You have no ***** idea what you're talking about. We have Linux and Windows server systems running in production. Linux by far is more tempermental, less reliable, harder to install and maint and every time the server manufacturers change up the hardware we have to do the 'device driver dance.'
The hardware support issue is such a pain in the ass I'll make sure we buy older used servers with a known hardware setup whereas the WIndows servers you just pop the CD in and 20-30 minutes later come back to a fresh perfect install.
You can get together with your Linux buddies and circle jerk each other about how Linux is taking over the desktop and how it's superior to Windows Server. But it just isn't true.- HoratioHellpop, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Funny ... google and amazon and the top 500 supercomputers on earth think Linux is superior to Windows on the server: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=205254
But what do they know. - gameforge, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1> You have no ***** idea what you're talking about.
No, that's you. I'm the other guy.
> We have Linux and Windows server systems running in production.
Great! What distro of Linux do you use? Who gives you support?
> ...every time the server manufacturers change up the hardware we have to do the 'device driver dance.'
***** Dell, and ***** HP. Problem solved.
> The hardware support issue is such a pain in the ass I'll make sure we buy older used servers with a known hardware setup...
Wait... I thought you had it working, but then the manufacturer forced you to upgrade to new hardware and that caused all of your driver problems...? Now you're saying your only choice is to buy used/old hardware? I think you're lying.
Still, I don't buy 64 core IBM/PowerPC supercomputers and wonder why Windows won't install on it...?
> You can get together with your Linux buddies and circle jerk each other about how Linux is taking over the desktop
Are you in 7th grade or something? Do you think the vulgar/potty humor is somehow helping your case? Grow up.
- HoratioHellpop, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Funny ... google and amazon and the top 500 supercomputers on earth think Linux is superior to Windows on the server: http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=205254
- gameforge, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2> But it's really hard to beat their ease of use, reliability, hardware compatibility, and their ease of setup and configuration.
- IronDonut, on 04/25/2008, -1/+0You know... some people have more important ***** to do than tend to a tempermental operating system. We get paid to accomplish things. In these cases we choose tools that get the job done quickest and with the least amount of hassle.
- neko, on 04/24/2008, -1/+7People who associate the IE icon with the internet itself are precisely the people who will be able to switch without much hassle - it's just changing one icon for another. Hell, Add/Remove Programs will finally be useful to them.
It's the people who love their win32 software, who believe they can't live without WinAmp, WinRar, and who are too used to the MS way of doing things that will find it more difficult to use anything else. The ones who believe command line interfaces suck simply because cmd.exe sucks.- 13thfloor, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1For those times you really need WinRar, it works with WINE.
- newwatch51, on 04/25/2008, -1/+1This is really not true. I'd love to believe it is, but it isn't. Linux is not for the computer illiterate.
- jay019, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1Damn, looks like I'll have to tell my computer illiterate friends to pack up their Linux boxes and stop successfully surfing the net, doing their banking online, enjoying internet chat, playing music, watching videos / dvd's and everything else they currently do.
Maybe I should tell them all to go back to windows so I can spend my weekends at their houses getting rid of viruses and getting the thing to run without crashing instead of staying home and spending time with my kids.
- jay019, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1Damn, looks like I'll have to tell my computer illiterate friends to pack up their Linux boxes and stop successfully surfing the net, doing their banking online, enjoying internet chat, playing music, watching videos / dvd's and everything else they currently do.
- IronDonut, on 04/25/2008, -3/+0Ditto here man. Loaded Ubuntu as the host OS for a virtualized server. After we did the "find the device driver dance" we loaded the OS. Then loaded VMWare. The ***** wouldn't stay running for more than 2 hours. After a couple of days of patching, updating, tweaking we formatted the drives and loaded Windows 2003 64bit. It installed effortlessly. It worked with all of the hardware and it's been running ever since with no issues.
If you have a ton of time on your hands and you want to futz with computer stuff and search for hardware drivers forever by all means run Linux. If you value you time and want to get a job done and don't have time for *****. Run Windows Server.- newwatch51, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1wft you say that after running ONE linux distribution. Yeah, there are plenty of linux distributions that don't work on my system. The solution? Don't use them. There are plenty that do work. When I realized that Ubuntu Gusty didn't work on my computer I didn't go "OMG UBUNTU DOESN'T WORK SO THAT MUST MEAN THAT ALL LINUX SUCKS AND NOW I HAVE TO GO BACK TO WINDOWS!". I just used Debian.
- jay019, on 04/26/2008, -0/+0Your not a very good system admin are you?
- seqizz, on 04/26/2008, -0/+0isn't that your fault..? i can do these things..
- HoratioHellpop, on 04/24/2008, -0/+12Disclaimer: windows fanboi here... you couldn't get Ubuntu running in a *virtual machine* ... so therefore it's useless as a desktop OS?
- garryw, on 04/24/2008, -18/+2Brasil doesn't have school computers. Not when I was there 10 years ago. Only the private schools. Maybe they are getting some now. Perhaps carpet and air conditioning is next.
- Daniel591992, on 04/24/2008, -0/+6Notice how you said "10 years ago."
I doubt most American middle schools has computers then. - FairDinkumMate, on 04/24/2008, -0/+6Nice observation - 10 years ago? Do you have ANY idea how quickly Brazil is growing. I'll bet it's almost unrecognizable now from when you were here & in 10 more years....
- init100, on 04/24/2008, -1/+1Carpet is an improvement? It might be an improvement over a dirt floor, but not much else.
- Daniel591992, on 04/24/2008, -0/+6Notice how you said "10 years ago."
- carbon12, on 04/24/2008, -4/+2MIRROR: http://aseigo.blogspot.com.nyud.net/2008/04/deploy ...
- thomas, on 04/24/2008, -11/+3I know I'm going to get dugg down for this but 52 million school children who have no choice that OS their school uses does not equal 52 million new users. That said it is still good for Linux because it could convert some of those children to Linux and the exposure is good especially if the Brazilian program is successful.
- nonposter, on 04/24/2008, -1/+5If they're not users of Linux, what are they?
- Hermmunster, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1I don't think you are looking at the picture over time. NO, 52,000,000 up front wouldn't be realistic. But 52,000,000 would be realistic over the next 5 to 10 years. Even if 15 students each used any given machine in their labs over their time in school, with 53,000 labs by the year 2009 we'd see 11,000,000 students accessing it. If you then examine the same labs over a greater period of time you'll see most likely 5 times that amount in the next 5-10 years.
- thewinelover, on 04/24/2008, -0/+2The children may not have chosen it but some smart, open minded people did. These are the kinds of people WHO SHOULD be teaching our children; not the MS-whipped government robots we refer to as public school teachers.
- sybesis, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1they aren't definitive user but if they have to do work at home and the say software is only available for linux...it's a windows fail...
Commercial software are possible on linux world.
That what people aren't understanding...
- joeanon, on 04/24/2008, -16/+2So... a poor nation needs cheap computers. Whats new ?
Brazil is probably not a good place to but much hope for Linux. More likely it will be a giant waste of money, many systems will be stolen, admin cost will be insanely high since their LINUX tech infrastructure isn't up to date.
And then... the people will still want Windows at home... without a doubt.
This same kind of thing happened with Mac. Mac pushes school to go Mac, but the home users don't give a ***** what OS they use a school or work.
They want to decide for themselves.- cquilliam, on 04/24/2008, -0/+11A poor nation? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_ ... , Brazil is 8th in the world in GDP.
- Hermmunster, on 04/24/2008, -0/+5Emerging countries into the modern computer age is precisely where the influence should be placed. Those individuals won't be as influenced by a modern monopolist because they can't afford pay the exorbitant prices for the software, either during their school years or after. These markets are exactly where Linux will influence the world the most.
- Shadowgamers, on 04/24/2008, -10/+2Wonderful. Another 50 million internet users/dawdlers.
- heystoopid, on 04/24/2008, -9/+3Oh no , think of all those smart users not buying any of Apple's overpriced and more insecure Mac's running Safari with massive security holes you can drive a Mack Truck through !
- eavesdrop, on 04/24/2008, -2/+11Other than OS X, I'm a Slackware & Red Hat/Fedora user....been using Slackware since 8.0 and RH since 7.3 .....but Ubuntu has really stepped it up for the Linux community, congratulations.
- BlaenkDenum, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1At least you're no elitist. I have a friend who became a Gentoo developer when he was 15, he's always been Linux-smart, but never has he been an elitist either. Elitists scare people away from Linux, bragging about how 1337z0r their terminal-only desktop is and the like.
- karolisonline, on 04/24/2008, -16/+2yes, and Brazil is most advanced and rich country in the world... say this to nasa and other high-tech institutions who needs f* stability and user-friendliness... 100$ for windows isn't much if 1h of Your work worths even more... having windows or mac on your desktop computer is like having free lunch on google-plex
- radix2, on 04/24/2008, -1/+4err - http://www.google.com.au/search?q=nasa+linux
For their desktops, they probably run whatever OS supports the engineering tools they need to use - probably some breed of Unix workstation. There maybe a few Windows PC's too. - sirhomer, on 04/25/2008, -1/+3NASA uses Linux extensively. There was an article on Digg about it not too long ago.
- sybesis, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2they use Fedora :P
- karolisonline, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1they use linux only for servers, and I am talking about desktops
- sybesis, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2ahah the irony is that nasa do use Fedora... :P not just windows or osx
- radix2, on 04/24/2008, -1/+4err - http://www.google.com.au/search?q=nasa+linux
- jabberwolf, on 04/24/2008, -15/+1Great numbers but then there is reality...
Voce nao falan portuguese com Brasilianos!
My friend would not be caught dead with linux on their machines and are all using PCs and some Macs.
Its nice for the government to save some money but those ARE NOT people BUYING linux machines, those are estimated people that will come across use of it in education and probably get a good laugh!
Government offices will still be using Windows ! How do I know? How about asking someone working in a government office in Brazil rather then posting a linux-tard BLOG PAGE as truth?!!- FairDinkumMate, on 04/24/2008, -0/+4TROLL - you already posted this & I already replied. By the way, maybe you can get your 'friend' to send you correct Portuguese(or maybe your 'friend' is Babel Fish!)
- unitedatheism, on 04/25/2008, -1/+4The correct would be "Vocês não falam português como os brasileiros". (and no, you don't need uppercase B in brasileiros, thank you.)
Now, if you're so good at portuguese, "você deveria parar de se meter a espertão e ficar na sua, zé ruela!" do as I recommend you.
- nonposter, on 04/24/2008, -3/+1How do you create multi-terminal nodes? Links would be useful. (Seriously, let's get technical. I want to do this myself on my own machine.)
- CptCoolguy, on 04/24/2008, -5/+0Why don't you call support?.....Oh, you cant, that is right! That is the division between mainstream applications, and "do-it-yourself" applications.
- sputty, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3Canonical provide paid for ubuntu support if you really have trouble and the forums are watched over every second of every day by millions of users as well... id day thats pretty good support. Douche.
- westyvw, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Why dont you look it up and just do it? Oh thats right, the community is documented the source is available. Thats the difference between VendorLockIn crapware and Open Source. Kinda like MCDonalds is a mainstream hamburger, kinda *****, not very good for you and addictive. However my community BBQ party burger is filling, good for you, tasty, and encourages recipe sharing.
- neko, on 04/24/2008, -0/+3The Linux Terminal Server Project (LTSP), should be what you're looking for.
- unitedatheism, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1damn, I switched the answer's place, so ok, here goes nonposter's answer:
http://linuxgazette.net/124/smith.html
"X" command itself already offers support for this, so if you know how to deal with your system scripts you can do it yourself quite easily... Anyway, have fun, having 2 or more users on a same computer is definitely a great saving of hardware and power!
- unitedatheism, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1damn, I switched the answer's place, so ok, here goes nonposter's answer:
- unitedatheism, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1No it would be not... LTSP is kinda different than what he's looking for. LTSP is great, but it still use one machine/screen/keyb/mouse per user.
- mule007, on 04/25/2008, -0/+0You want to look up a HOWTO for Multiseat X.
One such HOWTO is at http://gentoo-wiki.com/HOWTO_Multiseat_X - timbott, on 04/27/2008, -0/+1the easiest way to do it is use http://userful.com/products/free-2-user As the link says it is free for 2 users.
This is the way they are doing it in Brazil.
- CptCoolguy, on 04/24/2008, -5/+0Why don't you call support?.....Oh, you cant, that is right! That is the division between mainstream applications, and "do-it-yourself" applications.
- socraticchrist, on 04/24/2008, -23/+2Related story: 52 million disappointed by lack of wifi support
- kIdFrY, on 04/24/2008, -0/+4Re-Related Story: 52 million stable and malware free computers.
- sybesis, on 04/25/2008, -0/+4lol lack of wifi...on computer that are connected with ethernet...ethernet is faster than wifi...wifi sucks hard whatever Os you're using
- jay019, on 04/26/2008, -0/+0News Just In: Man responds to a retard on digg using a laptop connected to the net with WiFi & Ubuntu
- drumpat01, on 04/24/2008, -0/+4That is pretty cool. I love Ubuntu. I've had it on my shuttle PC for months now and I wont ever go back to Windows.
did anyone else feel the title was a bit misleading? When i read it i thought that meant 52million individual computers running Linux. But of course if you read the article it means 52million people who might have the ability of using Linux in Brazil. Those are two pretty different things to me.- Bender1001, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1I agree, it was a bit misleading but still is a great achievement for Linux.
- daengbo, on 04/25/2008, -0/+0Since these are school labs where the students will be studying, there will be near that number of new users. One user doesn't mean one computer, and the students will grow up with KDE. Whether that's good or not depends on your viewpoint, I guess.
- tiagobr, on 04/24/2008, -12/+0haha. BS :p
- Banangroda, on 04/24/2008, -0/+3So fking awesome!
- CptCoolguy, on 04/24/2008, -8/+0Why run it on linux when you can run it on BSD. (I hope no one already informed people)
- radix2, on 04/24/2008, -0/+1Look - BSD is a fine OS, but it has been left in the cold with the concentrated development effort on the Linux based desktop. Debian used to provide a BSD kernel alternative. It would be interesting to see how many opted for that.
- unitedatheism, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Let's try installing BSD 7.0 with no internet connection. Does it have a DVD image? No, 3 cd discs. Okay.
Let disc one go, partition it, begin installation, please put disc 2, ok, please put disc 3, ok, please put disc 1 (again?) ok, please put disc 2 (oh no!) ok, please put disc 1 again, please put disc 2, please put disc 3, please put disc 2, please put disc 3, please put disc 1, please reboot and install another OS.
FreeBSD can be an awesome OS, it SUCKS for all that I care, and I really tried and tried, it is unable to detect an extremely underground "realtek 8139" pci NIC for network installation, come on, how crap is that? Not my atl2 card, not rtl8139, not rtl8129, not atheros wireless, not d-link wireless (no wireless at all), should I just buy a network card from freebsd.org so I'll be able to install it?
By the end, I installed it on vmware, because at least FreeBSD is able to recognize vmware virtual nic, but I would not wonder if it didn't in fact... Now where it leads? To a shell, not bash, if you press TAB, it just jumps 4 or some spaces, ok, I give up! - SteveMax, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Because BSD is dead. Netcraft confirms it.
- juliend2, on 04/24/2008, -2/+2*****, DAMN, *****... Do you want to restart? NO.
- zeebo, on 04/25/2008, -1/+17And there are still morons who quote total linux usage at under a million. Its as if they're living in some alternate dimension.
- Narishma, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Well the reality is that you can't count the number of people using linux since you can get it in a million different ways and even distribute it yourself.
- jay019, on 04/26/2008, -0/+0Not to mention that this computer would be counted as a windows install even though it was erased within minutes of turning it on the first time. Now how do I get this machine counted as a Linux install?
- CptCoolguy, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Hmmm, what flavour of Linux do I want today.....
- HaMMeReD, on 04/25/2008, -1/+4I put my ex's 80 year old father on linux.
He seemed to be doing really well with it before I dumped the crazy bitch
What can I say, mission complete..- tripzero, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1don't you mean until she dumped you?
- Buzzpatrol, on 04/25/2008, -1/+2So we can basically look forward to 100s of ported and cracked Windows games running flawlessly on linus in about two weeks...
Kids - binaryloop, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2Total. World. Domination.
- IronDonut, on 04/25/2008, -2/+0Yes total and complete. If by domination you mean .38% of total desktop users. When you get to 1% Universe domination.
- ninja0, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1OOOBOOOONTOOO!
- IronDonut, on 04/25/2008, -2/+0Yes total and complete. If by domination you mean .38% of total desktop users. When you get to 1% Universe domination.
- cjnkns, on 04/25/2008, -1/+4Good for Linux and the world.
Personally, though I prefer Gnome.
I have tried KDE 4 and it's just not for me.- IronDonut, on 04/25/2008, -2/+0Oh my god. You're trying to out dork Linux users.
"Look at me I'm even less mainstream than you!"- ninja0, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Not really. Everyone uses their own thing, because they prefer it. I've also tried KDE4 and still prefer gnome. I wouldn't mind trying to use KDE4 for a few weeks though to see if I would get annoyed of it or not
- tripzero, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2who said GNOME was less "mainstream" than KDE4? most distros use it by default.
- ninja0, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Linus uses kde4 haha. OOBOOONTOO uses gnome... every distro uses everything, but I would definitely agree that KDE is usually used
- BlaenkDenum, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2I agree, while I love KDE 3.5 and KDE in general, KDE 4 doesn't seem to be for me, at least for now hopefully, and I often find myself using GNOME instead.
- jay019, on 04/26/2008, -0/+0I prefer fluxbox, but who cares really? At least we have the choice!
- IronDonut, on 04/25/2008, -2/+0Oh my god. You're trying to out dork Linux users.
- mGARANDEUR1, on 04/25/2008, -8/+2So what... I don't care if kids in Brazil use Linux computers. Some kids in third world countries are also using OLPCs (which are pieces of *****). I've used two versions of Linux- SuSe and Ubuntu and hated both of them. Spend $10 and get a copy of XP from your college so you don't have to worry about all of the ***** that comes with using Linux.
- nhnFreespirit, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3I find this reaction quite irrational to say the least. Even if I was the biggest fan of Microsoft products and wanted nothing at all to do with Linux or free software, I would still be cheering it on as loud and hard as I could. Why? Competition! Something which Microsoft desperately needs ( even though they would prefer not to have any ). Competition would force them to push the envelope with regards to features and make their products more affordable which would benefit all the people who likes their software...
- mGARANDEUR1, on 04/26/2008, -0/+1Microsoft has competition: the company is called Apple. Apple is getting a higher percent of the market now than it ever did. I'm not a die-hard Windows fan, but I will say that XP is a damn good operating system.
- nhnFreespirit, on 04/25/2008, -0/+3I find this reaction quite irrational to say the least. Even if I was the biggest fan of Microsoft products and wanted nothing at all to do with Linux or free software, I would still be cheering it on as loud and hard as I could. Why? Competition! Something which Microsoft desperately needs ( even though they would prefer not to have any ). Competition would force them to push the envelope with regards to features and make their products more affordable which would benefit all the people who likes their software...
- bingobongony, on 04/25/2008, -8/+7Yawnnn...call me when they actually use it outside of school.
- oobuntu, on 04/25/2008, -0/+5how about after they get given free, legit copies of the install disks by the school?
- bingobongony, on 04/25/2008, -3/+1The point is, they are not going to use them.
- kfedZ, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1http://digg.com/odd_stuff/Bingobongony_Trolls_all_ ...
- oobuntu, on 04/25/2008, -0/+5how about after they get given free, legit copies of the install disks by the school?
- IronDonut, on 04/25/2008, -7/+1This really is such *****. When I'm looking at web server statistics here is what stands out about Linux; all flavors of Linux make up less than 1% of total web users. I see twice as much traffic from Windows 2000 users. Thats a long dead server OS. I hear the Linux proponants always making a LOT of noise about all of the inroads that Linux is making on the desktop... but in reality it's less than 1%. Apple is another one. You'd think that the entire world is switching to Apple. In reality only about 5% of computer users are using Mac. All propaganda and wishful thinking aside Windows XP and Vista COMPLETELY dominate the desktop and the Linux share is so small that it really doesn't matter. Digg me down all you want. That is reality. Accept it.
- nxtwrld, on 04/25/2008, -1/+5I fail to see, how does current user agent statistics correspond to Brazil's decision to deploy Linux to schools.
For one there was not enough time to make a significant statistical impact,
second it will probably be used more for education (and there a loads of free educational KDE apps), rather than browsing web.
On our server the Linux increase has bee round 4% last year, Macs got 6% increase. Probably depends on the server contents and the type of crowd it's going to attract. - FairDinkumMate, on 04/25/2008, -0/+1Are you looking at web server statistics for anti-virus sites?
- tripzero, on 04/25/2008, -0/+2@IronDonut:
if your website is www.windowsthemes.com, I doubt you'll see too many mac and Linux Users there either. I see about 23% Linux and 21% "other OS" on my web site's statistics. But that's just my site.
- nxtwrld, on 04/25/2008, -1/+5I fail to see, how does current user agent statistics correspond to Brazil's decision to deploy Linux to schools.
- al11588, on 04/25/2008, -12/+1People who read this article this ***** is ***** and buried. Microsoft has more users and majority of the market share. Microsoft-FTW Linux = Epic faillllllllllllllllllllllll.
- sybesis, on 04/25/2008, -0/+4microsoft is loosing his majority of user
linux is eating it steadily...
wasn't it bill gate who said linux was a cancer...he was right...
- sybesis, on 04/25/2008, -0/+4microsoft is loosing his majority of user
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