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- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -2/+45"And people bitch when microsoft takes time testing before they release their updates"
And THOSE patches still don't work sometimes!!!!! Go figure. - Hachi, on 10/12/2007, -0/+36You should have linked to the actual article, instead of the homepage. As any new posts to his blog will be seen first. http://www.markshuttleworth.com/archives/54
- HsoKinees, on 10/12/2007, -5/+37maybe so, but you never paid for that minor issue in ubuntu.. where as Windows.. most people pay for such a privilege :P and this update was released in a few hours.. how long does MS take to release it's "critical" updates? days, is it?(serious question, I don't do windows updates)
- shakin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+32Mark Shuttleworth should be commended for being so open about their patch trouble. The whole Ubuntu team should be commended for coming out with a fix so quickly that most users never saw the problem in the first place.
As for MS, I still can't defend their long patch process because they have the poorest QA I've ever seen from a major vendor. A large organization patching thousands of desktops and servers will see multiple problems with each patch while individual users will see problems with several patches every year. Ubuntu thus far has been excellent. - negativeview, on 10/12/2007, -3/+26I don't use Ubuntu. I have no need for its prettiness and its ease of use. At least no need that outweighs the work it would take to uproot one of my already-installed machines. As such I have little to no opinion on Ubuntu as a distro.
I must say however that I respect Mark as a person a little more by the personal and honest admission of guilt and the promise to provide more details when they are gathered. I've always been a fan of those that keep their users abreast of what went wrong, how they fixed it, and why it won't happen again rather than a closed process where a site is down... then a few days later it's up and acting like nothing happened. - QuadSix50, on 10/12/2007, -1/+24I'm sure that many of those customers that paid for Microsoft's software would beg to differ with you considering the following:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=Microsoft+faulty+patch&btnG=Google+Search
According to one of the articles posted there, the fix was provided the following WEEK after the crashes began. This is unacceptable in a corporate setting if you ask me, especially when people that work in said corporate setting rely on this solution and pay top dollar to get it.
As for the Ubuntu team, they had this resolved within a few hours. Please....let's put the fanboyism to rest and state FACTS. - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -2/+23Awwww are you scared of Open Source because there isn't a corporate 1-800 number to call to be put on India's tech support when something breaks?
A knowledgable IT staff would have this problem fixed in 30 seconds. Might wanna free up some headcount at your "company"...... - spiral777, on 10/12/2007, -2/+22Wow, a software company admitting they made a mistake. A mistake which had a work around posted in a ton of spots within an hour, and had the actual update fixed within a few hours.
This seems like a pretty small mistake to make such a big deal over, but its nice to see some accountability. - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -1/+21@benlevon:
"Oh, but I forgot. Linux bugs are fine, it's only Windows bugs which are issues."
Yes...when Windows bugs cripple a system due to a security hole. At least users still had command line access instead of a complete system compromise.
At least they ADMIT they made a mistake. Microsoft, however, would give the public the run-around. - duke_nate, on 10/12/2007, -17/+36And people bitch when microsoft takes time testing before they release their updates....this is why.
- badinfluence, on 10/12/2007, -1/+20Thanks. I didn't think about that.
- Petrarch1603, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17at least he's been to outer space
- spiral777, on 10/12/2007, -3/+1517 hours of non-productivity? Why? Because you couldn't copy a few lines of code into a terminal or follow easy to read instructions posted on a myriad of wesites, including Digg, to get Ubuntu to drop back to the previous version? If you had to wait for the actual update to get your computers working again, then thats your problem. There was a workaround posted almost immediately.
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12@benlevon: You're talking like Microsoft has a spotless reputation for secure applications and clean code.
After my computer rebooted BY ITSELF from updating for the 100th time this year, I'm pretty confident that this isn't the case. - shakin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10benlevon, you keep trolling this article saying how poor Ubuntu and Open Source Software is. I imagine by your attitude that you must get your software from some sort of 'super vendor' that never releases broken software or broken patches. As an IT professional I would like it if you can tell me who this vendor is. I'm sure every other company in the world is eagerly awaiting your response as well.
- loading, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11btw
wasn't microsoft re-releasing their MS06-040? - scratched, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9The problem was fixed within hours. Most people (like myself) didn't even notice the problem. If you didn't restart your computer you wouldn't have noticed.
I don't know what your company does that it cannot afford downtime, but you most likely wouldn't have noticed the problem if you were running Ubuntu as a server. The problem wasn't one that would even affect servers anyway. It only affected the GUI.
If you're worred about stability so much though, you should try Debian, not Ubuntu. Debian is known as (IMHO) the most stable linux distro there is. I run a Debian file server and it has never given me a problem since the day I set it up. I've never even had to restart it. - DnasTheGreat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Now, this is why I like open source developers.
There's no question that the mistake should not have happened. I personally was bit by it, but I'm rather proficient in the command line, so it wasn't a big set-back when it happened and the sudo apt-get update; sudo apt-get upgrade to check if they've fixed it was very natural to me.
That said, they really should be a bit more careful with a distro tailored for newbies, which I'm sure they will be later.
But the Ubuntu developers didn't try to hide their mistake or make excuses (like a certain other OS's developers tend to do...). They admitted their mistake and promised to be more careful later, which is probably the best thing anyone could have done in their situation.
Mistakes will always happen. When they do, people need to react appropriately and move on.
I wish the Ubuntu team best of luck in that their next mistake won't be as bad. - losboccacc, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8and so, what about the forced downtime every month you have to accept if windows update are turned on?
and more over: why update a fully working distro in a corporate environment? I keep up to date my desktop... my workstations is a debian stable, and I won't update it until something get obsolete, to avoid working downtime AT ALL. - jbus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Thanks to Mark for being open and forthcoming about this issue. As an ubuntu user I'm glad to see that this is being addressed quickly and transparently.
BTW, I have 5 ubuntu machines and none of them had this problem. - benplaut, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Playing with technology is _fun_, and rich people have fun :)
- barius, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7@benlevon
Nice flame bait as usual, you are getting really good making useless posts. In response, I still haven't seen Bill Gates give a public apology for MS06-040 or any of their other patch screw-ups. Untill then, my high opinion of Mark and Ubuntu is not a double-standard, it's completely rational and justified. - speel, on 10/12/2007, -5/+11Get the hell outa here microsoft has enough money to buy a empire of all sorta of boxes so theres no excuse why they cant test their patches and everything.
- repruhsent, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7The day this happened I was trying to install a new machine with Ubuntu and the install failed several times on X; I wonder if this had something to do with that?
Anyway things seem stable now. I dislike Linux fanboys as much as the next guy but I have to at least give Shuttleworth kudos for admitting to the issue. - Flamekebab, on 10/12/2007, -1/+7Benlevon..
Actually, I don't think there's anything I can say to lower you any further, you've done it for us already. - ganlet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6I find it funny because i typically wait a few hours before i apply new patches especially when they involve something major like xorg. I figure problems will surface by then as they did in this case.
As far as all the corporate talk goes regarding 100% uptime, Ive worked in such enviroment; we kept test machines to try out updates for linux or windows before we would ever put one into production.
I dont know thats my two cents, just because there is an update doesnt mean you have to apply it that moment. I use ubuntu solely because of the community behind it, I respect people for taking blame, accountability is a good thing - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5@benlevon:
"Real professionals don't use crap like Linux, nor do we have your blind bipartisan mind of a world with only two operating systems."
REAL professionals are versatile and can use the proper tools based on the voice of customer. I know in which contexts Windows is most effective, when Mac is most effective, and when Linux is most effective. I really feel sorry for whatever company hired you. Someone should have a chat with HR... - trogdoor, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Funny thing is that I was actually more skeptical about him being able to make a distribution of Linux "for human beings" than him actually going into space. Seems I was wrong on both counts.
- jdwyckoff, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Everybody is complaining it broke the x server...Why not throw the LiveCD in and use that to go on the internet and look up the answer? Thats what I did, total down time = 5 minutes!
- alexthebeast, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Respect to Mark Shuttleworth, he is honest about the few mistakes the ubuntu team makes and you must hand it to the ubuntu team...a job well done.
- therernospoons, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5They have a workaround/fix here:
http://www.ubuntu.com/FixForUpgradeIssue - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Feel free to update X - the problem has been fixed.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Yup.
- rickcarson, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I agree. The way I read that article was:
"We screwed up. We're sorry. We fixed it. We'll try to make sure it doesn't happen again."
That is some impressive openness and honesty.
It made me want to look more into Ubuntu, as I know several people who use it and love it. But then I looked down the page at the list of things that Ubuntu still doesn't do out of the box, and I was amazed. I've got an old PC sitting around with no OS on it waiting for a nice 'out of the box' Linux to install on it, but I think I will have to keep waiting.
No Java? No MP3s? Ouch. - AmishRefugee, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"I'll say it now, Linux is only more secure than Windows because only a small amount of people use Linux." -manbearpigm16
what about root-password protection?
granted i'm sure it could still be spoofed but its existance rules out the vast majority of windows viruses if they were applied to a linux setting - rickbauls, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4My two machines both run ubuntu and I never had the problem either.
- dcgray2, on 10/12/2007, -6/+9Yes there is a double standard at this point in time.
Compare the age and maturity of Ubuntu versus windows and I think there is some basis for that. 10 years from now when the Ubuntu product release process has accquired the maturity that Microsoft's has (just counting the time since Windows 95) then I think this double-standard will disappear completely. Users will be screaming bloddy murder when something like this happens.
And although the volume is quite so loud, your contention that zero was said is just plain wrong. Of course it's all been bloggers and geeks, so you might not have seen it on CNN.
Microsoft's non-free software doesn't guarantee a damn thing either. Ask the corporations that have lost data and productivity from windows service packs, patches, and updates over the years. And that's even ignoring all the lost productivity and share-holder value due to security issues.
OSS is not perfect. You seem to think we should expect it to be.
And I feel sorry for your company. You could be saving a tremendous amount of money on licensing and administration costs by blindly excluding open source. - drizek, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4getautomatix.org you can get all that stuff working in about 15 minutes. And since when does windows support all these things out of the box anyway?
- jacobee519, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Is xserver-xorg-core safe to install now?
- QuadSix50, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I had installed the failed X11 update the night before and then learned about the problem the following day. That night when I got home from work, I went ahead and booted up my laptop running Ubuntu, logged in to the now-console-based login, did a "sudo -s" to become root, and did an "apt-get update" followed by an "apt-get dist-upgrade". The fixed X server proceeded to install and after a reboot I was back in business. While it is something that shouldn't have gotten past QA, it wasn't the doom-and-gloom many have made it out to be (the sudo password vulnerability from months back was far worse and patched in only a few hours of discovery). And the Ubuntu team's admission of the problem is more than I've seen from any other OS company I've seen, be it MS or Apple (and this is coming from a person who uses Linux, Mac OS X, and Windows on a regular basis).
- jcronkhite, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I'm toying with Ubuntu (new to Linux) and was fortunate enough not to have this issue. What was cool, though, was I installed XGL with the NVidia release drivers and screwed up X. The fix provided for the blue screen update also resolved my issue (I later got XGL working nicely; so cool!). This makes perfect sense since the fix resets the default X configuration. The important thing here (for other newbs to linux like me) is that your computer is not dead at the point X fails. Read the Ubuntu forums, the help is great. Find a command line reference and have at it. It's been an education but definitely worth it. So far I'm finding that I become more comfortable with Ubuntu with each minute.
As a quick side note, if you are a web developer and need to view your pages in IE you can run IE 5, 5.5, and 6.0 via Wine in Ubuntu. - Flamekebab, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Seumas, why can't one do both?
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Nice to see him acknowledging this blunder. That fact you lost the GUI made it a nightmare for beginners.
- lowbot, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4>maybe so, but you never paid for that minor issue in ubuntu
This is simply untrue. We pay with our man hours and time we spend helping others using linux. We pay with our mindshare and the opportunity cost of using a different distro. This is a real value. Does this mean that the ubuntu project is at our back and call? Of course not, but flatly stating something on the lines of "you didnt pay for it, so stop complaining" is being very disingenious. Arguably, maintaning that attitude just makes more OS X converts who will pay and get better support from Apple, while maintaining all the UNIXY goodness underneath. - Flamekebab, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I don't see how being a wealthy geek odd, surely it's the best time to be a geek!
- stonyhill, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3The problem didn't affect integrated video (i.e. intel video), and it only affected you if you rebooted. Unfortunately, I rebooted, and lost six hours of work time (the fix posted in the forums didn't work for me, because the xserver-xorg "update" hosed my xorg.conf and my video driver).
- AlphaMack, on 09/26/2008, -0/+1I wholeheartedly agree; Shuttleworth has shown once again why he is where it's at. Not only did he come out and explain what happened and the steps to ensure that such an issue would never happen again, the flaw was also patched within HOURS. See if you can find that kind of a response time in commercial software.
- pcgeek101, on 10/12/2007, -6/+7"(serious question, I don't do windows updates)"
*cringe* ouch
BTW, Microsoft releases patches on every Tuesday of the month. I haven't had any major problems, and I regularly update about 550 desktops/servers at work. - Grangin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2I don't know I find openSUSE and Ubuntu to be comparable in terms of resource usage. It's all linux underneath, just different packaging. The one thing you gotta do if you use openSUSE 10.1: use SMART instead of YAST because YAST is horribly slow (even after they fixed it). SMART is a dream for managing packages: fast and easy to use.
All in all I was happy with both kubuntu and openSUSE. IMO both very solid distros. Linux sure has come a long way to provide usability in the past year. It all depends on your personal preference. The only way to find the right distro for you is to try them all. It's good to not by narrowminded about your distro choice because you could be missing out :) - bigtomrodney, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Not this one certainly. It was fixed a week ago.
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