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Mark Shuttleworth: "Willing to buy a high-end, free-software-only laptop?"

markshuttleworth.com — 'With projects like Gobuntu and gNewSense aiming to provide a platform that is zealous about free software, the obvious question is “where can I run it?”. And right now, as far as laptops go, there are no good answers. Pretty much any laptop you can buy today needs some sort of non-free bits to make the most of its hardware...'

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  • superjan, on 10/11/2007, -10/+20This is actually a big story. Ubuntu is gonna start selling hardware, and it is gonna be rather soon. (before gutsy +1). Mark Shuttleworth seems to be the right man at the right time at the right place.
    • dsn0wman, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3Sounds cool. Is there any supporting documentation?
    • rpgmaker, on 10/11/2007, -3/+10No, there's no documentation. That is a misleading comment.
      • superjan, on 10/11/2007, -6/+8excuse me? Maybe you should read the blog before you comment on it?

        Here is the wike page (its ubuntu, the specs are written by the community!): https://wiki.ubuntu.com/FreeSoftwareLaptop You could have cut and pasted that one yourself.

        and to prove my point, here is what Shuttleworth wrote:
        "If we can get sufficient numbers of people to express interest in such a laptop then I will start hunting for an OEM to offer a solution for pre-order."
        • allywilson, on 10/11/2007, -2/+9In no way does he say this will be an Ubuntu laptop. All he states is that he'll approach an OEM.
        • rpgmaker, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1He never said he gonna start selling hardware. You're wrong... again.
        • superjan, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1Again, simple cut and paste: "let's try to outline something that an ODM in Taiwan could feasibly make today with at most one miracle required"
          Why don't you believe he is gonna build the laptops himself, when it is written on the blog and the wiki? Of course he is gonna use a Taiwanese firm to actually build the machine (just like every laptop vendor does, just like the olpc is build in asia), but the laptop will be build according to his (or the wiki's) plan.

          I agree it is a very clever and almost risk free scheme, but in the end, ubuntu will start selling hardware. Which is, by the way, also a very healthy business plan for a company that is giving away his OS. (Go ask Apple :))
          • mrsteveman1, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Yes its a great idea and a great model, i just question what valuable input Mark thinks he will get from most of the community.

            If you read that page, he outlined what NOT to ask for, and everyone went ahead and asked for it anyway, with some rather ridiculous responses that are completely outside the scope of an easy to build linux laptop, some of them don't even make rational sense.
    • Vinvin, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1He might just try to pursuade an OEM to ship such a high-end laptop with Gobuntu if there is enough interest.

      Still, it's big news. I mean, imagine being able to get your hands on a totally free laptop, that still works! And that in combination with Ubuntu (allright, Gobuntu) and the fact that it's high-end... Almost too good to be true.
  • schestowitz, on 10/11/2007, -16/+11It's quite the challenge. He talks about OpenBIOS and the {Whole Deal}^TM. It would take _a lot_ of resource$ to make this a reality.

    ...

    "zealous about free software"

    I don't like this phrase. It sounds religious. Free software hasn't anything to do with religion and some companies create such stereotype to fight Linux/GPL. If anything is religious or 'communist', it's software that is all identical. No choice.
  • mournsanity, on 10/11/2007, -2/+8In an instant.
    • drlha, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2Yes, I'm sure a lot of Linux fans will say this, but how many will actually end up paying the money?
      • Theli, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1I smell Déjà Vu. The same question was being asked prior to the release of the Dell computers with Ubuntu pre-installed: "Sure, a lot of people are asking for it, but how many would actually buy one?"

        Well, apparently quite a few.
  • benanzo, on 10/11/2007, -5/+11I'm interested. My girlfriend wants a laptop purely for MySpace and reading the PETA newsletter. Maybe I'll look into this.
    • ericodom, on 10/11/2007, -3/+24The PETA newsletter? HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!
      • kazamx, on 10/11/2007, -0/+8Porn Everwhere Thats Awesome...... Whats wrong with the newsletter again?
    • GMorgan, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4You'd buy a high end laptop for that?

      Frankly for that purpose an Nvidia card with the NV driver would suffice.
    • stolenisotope1, on 10/11/2007, -5/+16PETA is another tolerated terrorist group. People who support PETA are like scientologists, brainwashed for the agendas of the people that run the organisations. PURE SCUM.
      • rheaume, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1What was it like, voting for Bush and hating Al Gore? Has it turned out well for you? You seem so well adjusted
        • ZenMasterJG, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1What was it like, firebombing research labs, vandalizing zoos, and hating human beings? Has it turned out well for you? You seem like such an ignorant sarcastic jackass.
    • IEatHamburgers, on 10/11/2007, -2/+23PETA and Myspace at the same time? That's more evil than one person can stand!
    • cr1t, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6You have a girlfriend? Photo for proof.
      • GMorgan, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6I can understand it. PETA and Myspace! Damaged goods.
    • Krumm, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4You should probably spend the money on acquiring a new girlfriend...
    • doomfiend, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3Best troll ever.
    • benanzo, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I have a hilarious life
  • MrSarcasm, on 10/11/2007, -8/+22No, I wan't to buy a high-end, software-that-does-what-i-need-and-i-don't-care-about-the-license-only pc.
    • Stemp, on 10/11/2007, -4/+3Yes, I wan't to buy a high-end, software-that-does-what-I-want-and-so-I-care-about-the-licence pc ;)
    • SVPirate, on 10/11/2007, -5/+8The day you stop caring about the license is the day it bites you in the ass...
    • Vinvin, on 10/11/2007, -1/+6software-that-does-what-i-need-and-i-don't-care-about-the-license-only pc are already available. He's trying to set up something new here, be constructive ;-)

      And I agree with SVPirate.
  • gcnaddict, on 10/11/2007, -3/+5I'd prefer a high-end PC that works with everything without any problems, including my corporate network (specifically Active Directory).
    • trying2hide, on 10/11/2007, -7/+0linux doesn't have AD
      • gcnaddict, on 10/11/2007, -1/+5Well gee, no *****?
      • GMorgan, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3Active Directory is just LDAP (lightweight directory access protocol for those who care). Linux has supported LDAP for years. We just call it by it's proper name.
        • gcnaddict, on 10/11/2007, -2/+1Look, you guys do realize that OSX supports AD right? So do other UNIX OSes. I'd go with the more popular and powerful system any day.
    • trying2hide, on 10/11/2007, -4/+1Sorry - I just didn't understand your response. Didn't mean to pee in your Wheaties.
    • HalfNakedPappy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Then don't sign up for the mailing list.
  • trying2hide, on 10/11/2007, -2/+2Not exactly high end but I have Ubuntu running on an Averatec and a Presario just fine. I wish they'd put more effort into making the wireless work a little more seamlessly.
    • Vinvin, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1But this is about getting Gobuntu to run on a laptop, so without including proprietary drivers.
  • daxsymbiont, on 10/11/2007, -3/+2"Willing to buy a high-end, free-software-only laptop?"

    yes.
  • MikeonTV, on 10/11/2007, -10/+1Why does everyone bash Windows and MS when it's clear that Linux companies are just as greedy and crooked?
    • boredsam, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4When you post a statement like this, you've gotta back it up w/ a link to your Microsoft employee blog.
    • saftaplan, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1As long as a company doesn't use vendor lock-in or other dirty tactics instead of just improving their products to get more money, I don't care if they're greedy. Besides, Canonical still doesn't make profit, you can hardly call them greedy.
    • GMorgan, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4It's not about greed. It's about methodology. Companies can be as greedy as they want provided they respect the license. It's not about capitalism v socialism (though admittedly some would like to turn it into that on both sides).
  • eliasg, on 10/11/2007, -1/+3OpenBIOS? I thought everything was moving to EFI?
    • saftaplan, on 10/11/2007, -0/+4I sure hope not. EFI makes things even more closed and DRM/TCPA-friendly and that isn't worth the small improvement.
      • drlha, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1How so?
        • generalloy, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3"Another important thing to realize about EFI is that it also contemplates enabling chipset features that will trap certain OS operations to an EFI-based control system running in System Management Mode. In other words, under EFI, there is no guarantee that the OS owns the platform. Accesses to IDE I/O addresses, or certain memory addresses, can be trapped to EFI code and potentially examined and modified or aborted. Many see this as an effort to build a "DRM BIOS". I am not sure what the real intent of this design is, but is is a real concern in secure environments (such as those found in governments, banks, and large search engine companies). A number of vendors and users have told me that they are not sure they can ship an EFI system they are willing to trust in a secure environment."

          From the creator of Open/LinuxBIOS.

          http://fosdem.org/2007/interview/ronald+g+minnich

          For ordinary users, Vandewege says, LinuxBIOS is also a guarantee against digital rights management technologies, such as the sandboxing feature of Intel's EFI, which controls software access to hardware. According to Vandewege, the introduction of such a feature raises issues of privacy and consumer rights, because "whoever controls the BIOS controls the computer. If you control the BIOS, you can lock out whatever loads after it."
          http://www.linux.com/articles/58781
    • ours, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3According to wikipedia: "one of the stated goals of EFI is to "protect hardware vendors' intellectual property". This raises security concerns and notably makes creating a free software implementation impossible."
    • GMorgan, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Unlikely.EFI brings us back to the same point as BIOS was before it got reverse engineered, EFI cannot be simply reimplemented like BIOS can. There is no great momentum to change to EFI (which is crap in any case, ask anyone on the kernel team their opinion of EFI). BIOS will still be around 10 years from now. From a financial perspective it makes no sense to change.

      If you think Intel backing will be enough to make people switch I've got one word for you 'Itanic'.
  • cantormath, on 10/11/2007, -3/+4You know what Mark, we should probably get Linux completely working on Laptops before we start complaining about them not working completely with FOSS..............Working at ALL is a good thing....and for many Laptop, Linux is still not working 100%. I am also refering to things like the bios not the built in camera. Many new and old laptops still do not have functioning power management systems; for some of my machines I would just like to see it work at all, free or not free.
    Here are some companies that I have noticed work well and provide linux Support.
    acceptance list(from this post)
    1) Intel
    2) Nvidia
    3) Visioneer (scanner)
    4) HP (except special key functions on keyboards).
    5) AMD
    6) Brother
    7) Orinoco (wireless)
    8 )GIGABYTE Technology (First Motherboard using LinuxBios)
    9) Twinhead (Redhat and Solaris Certifed Laptops)
    10) Seagate (external hard drives)
    11) Digium ( Open Source telecommunications supplier, PBX stuff etc)
    12) Ralink
    13) Maxtor (Hard drives)
    14) Umax Astra ( ie, 2000U scanner)
    15) Atheros (wireless)
    16) Sun Microsystems
    17) Presonus (pro soundcards - support for the freebob project)
    18 ) Minitar - (wireless - responsible for opensourcing the ralink wireless chipset)
    19) BridgeCo-(Multimedia Hardware production)
    20) Terratec- (Multimedia Hardware production)
    21) Ego Systems Inc. - (Hardware for audio production)
    22) Dell (Manufacture of Desktops and PC's)
    23) Polaroid (Cameras)
    24) Kodak
    25) System76 (Manufacture of Desktops and PC's)
    26) NEC
    27) Samsung
    28 )LG
    29) e-Blue.
    • Leviathan777, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3You are probably putting the cart before the horse. There is really just one problem: laptop hardware is often funky and closed-spec.

      I'd like a laptop that Just Works, all of it, on Linux & BSDs. I'd like it to work without binary-only drivers, not because I'm zealous about running on FOSS, but just because I want free operating systems to Just Work on the hardware without a lot of farting around with driver installation.

      Getting everything working first, and FOSS later is one of those things that will never happen, because you'll never get everything working as long as the hardware makers don't care about openness or standards - they'll just screw you into a perpetual game of catchup.
  • richardtallent, on 10/11/2007, -5/+2So, you're willing to pay engineers and designers US$2500 for the tremendous amount of work that goes into designing CPUs, chipsets, and other laptop components, but your religious fanaticism prevents you from spending $50 for software developers to design an OS and UI?

    Today, I'm going to pick up my first Macbook Pro (my second Mac, my first was a Mac Pro last year). There's no way I'm going to try to putter along on Ubuntu instead of OS X out of some illogical devotion to volunteer programming. I'm happy that OS X has a strong BSD foundation, but the premium for the UI bits are worth every penny.
    • ordminute, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I'm quite familiar with OS/X and have used it as my sole OS in the past. Having used Ubuntu though I realise now though that having an OS artificially tied to a single hardware base, one made in Taiwan with all the other laptops, is simply not practical.

      I like my OS to move with me: I can't expect so-called "Apple Hardware" to be with me everywhere I go. Secondly, OSX is simpy not as performant as Ubuntu or as customiseable, even on the same hardware.

      I don't want to live in some designer's day-dream of what allcomputer user's need. I'm not an evangelist, just pragmatic.
    • Pallatto, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0I think we should pay the engineers because we buy the computers. I don't pay for an OS because I take responsibility for running my computer. It may be worth the money for you to pay for a mac or windows because you won't take the time to configure your system yourself. I run linux because It gives me choice. We just want hardware vendors to give us the instructions to use their products. If I buy a wireless card I should be able to program it without having to load proprietary firmware. hardware vendors should be able to protect their manufacturing methods with patents.
    • MeneerR, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1Dude, Mac' s don't count. Windows is an illogical crappy piece of software. The main reason windows is so crappy is economics. They need to sell new hardware, they want you to upgrade someday (so it should never be perfect) and it should be a market place of competing products that don't play nicely together.

      There are two ways to get a great ecosystem:
      - write everything yourself (the Apple Approach (tm)) and have some goddamn taste while you're at it
      - write everything together and share your code

      What does not work:
      - have several competing products on a closed-source OS by another manufacturer.

      Mac's don't give you freedom like Linux does, but as dictators come and go, its not a bad overlord.
  • RyGiL, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2As long as it A) can run a web browser so I can use all my online web apps and B) remote desktop so I can access my dev machine, I'm happy.
  • Apreche, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3The problem is that I do very much want a laptop that can be supported by free software. However, it is more important to me to have a very small laptop with lots of battery life and the latest technology. This open laptop will most likely be a very generic piece of hardware. That's not cool.

    I use free software because it is the best software. However, I also want to use the best hardware. Right now, the two are incompatible.
  • wedesoft, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1I guess the hardest thing at the moment is to find a GPL-licensed driver for a 3D/OpenGL graphics card.
  • snoolyagain, on 10/11/2007, -5/+0Why all this protracted noise about the flash in the pan Linux gimmick? Enough already. Can we get back to real computing?
  • snerfu, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1I think this would be much better suited for something like that new cheap Acer laptop, the "eee pc." People aren't going to want to buy a new laptop with a suped up Nvidia adapter until the Nouveau project comes up to speed or close to it on the driver side. The completely free software thing would work out much better on the lower end, affordable side of the scale.
  • Shaman666, on 10/11/2007, -1/+2I installed Ubuntu on my Laptop the other day and it worked perfectly. Everything, including the wireless link.

    Top marks from me. Debian wouldn't see the wireless hardware at all.
    • aaronm67, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Way to miss the point of the article. You installed ubuntu on your laptop using dozens of proprietary drivers to get it to work correctly.
  • slapthemonkey, on 10/11/2007, -1/+1Very interesting article.
  • cmister, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3mark says in a comment on this blog, “Right now I can proudly say that all distributions of Ubuntu cost nothing, and that nearly 99.5% of the software and materials we ship gives users and the community the freedoms to share, customize and improve the software however they see fit. To help remove those bits and pieces that aren’t completely free, we have worked together with the makers of gNewSense put out a distribution called Gobuntu. We hope that some day that all distributsions of Ubuntu can carry 100% of the freedoms that 99% of Ubuntu already comes with. To make that happen, and to make an all free software operating system a reality, there is a lot that needs to happen, but, most of all we need your help.”
  • iapx, on 10/11/2007, -0/+0It's more constructing/buying an open-source free software INTEL TRUST laptop!
    Why not AMD components?
  • brasso, on 10/11/2007, -0/+1As I said; If it got something like IBMs TrackPoint, then I can’t see how I would not be willing to buy that laptop.
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