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38 Comments
- kckman, on 10/12/2007, -1/+38Steve Ballmer? Is that you?
- cday, on 10/12/2007, -1/+23Mark Shuttleworth is a class act, and Ubuntu is a very classy piece of software. It's come a long way in a very short time. It's polished and friendly, and just gets better. I have an idea that within a very short time Novell's SUSE won't be missed at all. I hope the OpenSUSE developers take Mark up on his invitation. With Java being open now too, things should get very interesting.
It's all good. In the end it may prove that Novell did everyone a big favor, though I doubt if it will be in the way they intended. - holydope, on 10/12/2007, -0/+19You wouldn't? Remember the MS Blaster worm? It spread over the Internet and basically made a zombie army to attack windowsupdate.com. As a result, for a little over a week, windowsupdate.com ran on Red Hat Linux.
- markcrules, on 10/12/2007, -2/+15Shouldn't you be writing SP1 for Vista now? Don't forget to include all the features promised for release but removed at the last moment.
- progpen, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13Exactly, because as we all know Ballmer is a level-headed, sane individual, and I myself believe every word he utters.
- stmiller, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10"Ubuntu may be good but as it is currently packaged, it just puts some roadblocks for advanced users, such as blocking the root account / ssh port etc."
Wow.... these are 'roadblocks' for advanced users? I think any 'advanced' user could figure out how to enable the root account or enable ssh.
And 'advanced' users seem to do ok in OS X that has similar sudo/root policies. Or if you need a root prompt, just type
$ sudo -s
like most 'buntu people do. - nxusername, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12I am very excited about Ubuntu.
I've been away from the Linux desktop scene for a couple of years due to frustration, but I installed Ubuntu 6.10 last week and was pleasantly surprised how many things "just worked" on my laptop.
Prior to that, I was testing SUSE and Fedora, but I have abandoned that in favor or Ubuntu. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8calm down people, he can be Novell's CEO too ;)
- ninjacob, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11Is it just me, or do the openSUSE developers come off as ***** in that thread? Shuttleworth was being cordial and throwing out an invitation. This turns me way off to SUSE.
- demonsofgoetia, on 10/12/2007, -2/+9I think Mr. Shuttleworth is brilliant.
Look, if Microsoft wanted to bring Windows and Linux together, why didn't they do it when they partnered with Corel around six years ago? (if, indeed, it was a partnership, correct me if I'm wrong please) Does anyone remember Corel Linux? It, like Ubuntu, was a Debian based Linux distribution, with an easy to use graphical installer! And this was around six years ago! Anyone who wants to gain an enlightened perspective can google about Corel Linux and Microsoft and inform themselves. Here are a few important articles:
""Corel Sells Out To Microsoft""
http://www.forbes.com/2000/10/03/1003corel.html
""Interview: Corel's Linux VP on the Microsoft deal" @ CNN 10/16/2000"
http://archives.cnn.com/2000/TECH/computing/10/16/corel.linux.on.ms.idg/index.html
"http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A5576-2001Feb14¬Found=true
"Microsoft Faces New Antitrust Probe Over Corel Deal"
http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn?pagename=article&contentId=A5576-2001Feb14¬Found=true
"Government lawyers want to know more about a deal in which Microsoft gave Corel, perhaps best known for its WordPerfect program, $135 million in exchange for 24 million shares of Corel stock last October.""After the investment, Corel announced it would retreat from developing software designed to run on the Linux operating system, which competes with Microsoft's Windows operating system."
"Microsoft Litigation" List - Educate yourself
http://www.groklaw.net/staticpages/index.php?page=2005010107100653
I ask you: Who do YOU trust? - m0laria, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers, developers!!!!!!!
- schestowitz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Some of the readers might be interested in the following:
"SLED 10 is good looking, well designed and very usable. Novell has added some excellent features that make the Gnome desktop just a little bit more friendly to use. Surprisingly, the extra overhead didn't put too much strain on my lower-end IBM Thinkpad notebook.
The obvious question to ask, however, is how the Novell-Microsoft deal will affect SuSE's market share, both among the free software community and within the corporate sector.
If I was to hazard a guess I would say that we'll see significant drop off in the use of SuSE by the free software community. In large part because of the relationship with Microsoft but also because something like Ubuntu is every bit as good a desktop for most users as is SuSE and it has less of the baggage SuSE now has.
On the corporate front it will take time for the deal to play itself out but Novell provides a compelling desktop Linux option in SLED 10 and perhaps together with the assurance of not being sued by Microsoft might well be a good corporate desktop replacement.
For myself, I am sticking with Ubuntu for now."
http://www.tectonic.co.za/view.php?src=rss&id=1273 - Deusiah, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5"Ubuntu may be good but as it is currently packaged, it just puts some roadblocks for advanced users, such as blocking the root account / ssh port etc."
Sorry but if you can't get round this in two seconds you are not an advanced user, they aren't roadblocks for advanced users they are safety rails for non-advanced users. - gnanders, on 10/12/2007, -4/+8So far, the openSUSE developers don't follow Shuttleworth's thinking on this. read for yourself here, he posted this to the openSUSE mailing list also. http://lists.opensuse.org/opensuse/2006-11/threads16.html
I'll digg you up though because I think you make a valid point about some people that probably will leave SUSE for another distro because of this.
It's worth noting the comments from a source at novell who makes some very valid points about ubuntu under shuttleworths stewardship.
Personnally i don't think this is a good thing from Shuttleworth, just some brazen publicity cheap shot. The last thing anyone from *any* distro wants is more arguing and division, Balmer is doing a good enough job spreading FUD, nobody needs Shuttleworth helping out in that respect.
While i have some aprehension about the MS/Novell deal, i'll still use openSUSE / SUSE for one clear and strong reason. It's a superb distro, still probably the most polished and best engineered, the german SUSE team are still at the top of the game if 10.2 RC1 is anything to go by. For that reason alone SUSE still has my loyalty, quality varies greatly in the linux world and my personaly epxerience is that SUSE is still all about quality.
For what it counts... - Ademan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@ggoyal
Any advanced user can activate the root account... I wouldn't count that against ubuntu. (Though i do feel like its ubuntu "protecting us from ourselves" which as an intermediate user i don't like, but its so easy to remedy that i don't resent it that much) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Developers Techno Remix: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=2362050448778905490&q=Steve+Ballmer
Dance Monkey Boy: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=1274983729713522403&q=Steve+Ballmer - heffae, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3If memory serves correct parts of the code for the Linux network stack bears a striking resemblance to the windows 2000/xp stack. This is of course because they both borrowed heavily from BSD. (which is perfectly ok under the BSD license)
- demonsofgoetia, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2"I'm sure Ubuntu developers would be equally angry if Daniel Robbins from Gentoo spammed the devel-list with a message inviting Ubuntu developers to join Gentoo because Ubuntu is a noob distro."
I'd be surprised if that happened, hey speaking of which, do you remember:
"Gentoo Linux founder quits Microsoft"
http://news.zdnet.co.uk/software/linuxunix/0,39020390,39252292,00.htm - loljews, on 10/12/2007, -3/+5@demonsofgoetia
do you understand the concept of an analogy? - Stonekeeper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@demonsofgoetia
That last bit about buying stock is a bit scary! Glitch in the matrix? - dgh1973, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I keep trying to reply to the loser tedbrogan below but it keeps popping up here... poor guy must be dug down so low you can't even reply to him.
He MUST be joking... - dcherryholmes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2WRT Ubuntu blocking the root account:
That also felt a bit weird to me, but I accept that the sudo setup is a bit more secure than going su. Just typing "sudo -s" will give you a shell that is practically the same as "su -". - OmegaNine, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3I agree, there must be some code in windows that is from linux...So show us the code Ballmer, oh and make sure to predate it so we cant tell you stole it from us.
- m0laria, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1gah wrong one
- NerveBand, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@holydope
I really would like a link regarding that. - demonsofgoetia, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1loljews:
I asked a question, why answer with a question? I'll respond to your comment after you respond to mine. - stmiller, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2No this guy (tedbrogan) is not joking. He must work for MS. And he is a pro-Bush, 'liberal hater.' I quickly scanned his last few comments on digg, almost all in the negative:
http://digg.com/software/Ubuntu_The_Imperfect_Operating_System_Alternative_to_Windows
-23 diggs:
"I used Ubuntu once, and it erased my XP completely off the memory!
This Ubuntu stuff should be considered a computer virus, not an operating system."
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http://digg.com/gadgets/Zune_Hack_add_40_60_80GB_HDD
-2 diggs:
"Is this even legal?"
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http://digg.com/apple/Apple_s_Adventures_in_Retail
-15 diggs:
"Goes to show you how well liberals run a country or a company - right in the ground.
America is screwed." - ggoyal, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I would accept your arguments. I am not religious about any particular distro, as I believe all of them differ little and can be made to look and feel like any other distro given enough tweaking.
Its just a question of which one works exactly the way you expect, right from the first boot.
I'll give credit to ubuntu team for their recent trend of bigger contributions to linux, such as the new init system but not for some other highly touted features which, as per your own logic, are trivial to implement in most distributions. Desktop cleanups dont excite me, but things like Compiz do. - demonsofgoetia, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3Here's the link to Ubuntu Open Week on the Ubuntu Wiki:
https://wiki.ubuntu.com/UbuntuOpenWeek
Whether you're an Ubuntu user already or have heard about Ubuntu and want to learn more, you'll want to check out Ubuntu Open Week!
You'll notice that Ubuntu Open Week includes:
"Ask Mark (Mark Shuttleworth) - In this session, you can ask Ubuntu founder Mark Shuttleworth your questions about Ubuntu." - quoted from above wiki link
There's something exciting in it for everyone, I can't wait! :) - dgh1973, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1It takes a smart man to capitalize on the cold feet of others. Kudos Mark!
- darkchild, on 10/12/2007, -3/+3One thing thats really sad about digg is that its really difficult to have a good balanced discussion about Linux. The reason I say this is that in most discussions anyone who says anything negative about Ubuntu or Mark Shuttleworth is usually dugg down by the fanboys. Some people here are being dugg down because they say they prefer Suse and think its better than Ubuntu or disagree with Mark Shuttleworths actions/comments. Honestly, is this a genuine reason to digg someone down? Our distro preferences may differ but we are still all Linux users aren't we?
Back to the openSUSE developer issue. Personally I don't see many developers shifting from openSUSE to Ubuntu. These distros are worlds apart in terms of who they target, the underlying structure of the OS, things like package management, system administration etc. Its not the same as a Debian or Mepis developer moving to Ubuntu because these distros are essentially the same. Its difficult enough for users to just switch distro without being overwhelmed by the differences, what more for developers. Some people don't like Ubuntu, simple as that ,and would probably prefer to fork openSUSE (if the Novell/MS agreement is affects them) and keep working on the same type of distro as openSUSE than shift to Ubuntu.
As for whether is was wise for Shuttleworth to post on the openSUSE mailing list, I don't think it was, judging from the reaction of most of the openSUSE developers. I agree that posting on a rival distros mailing list asking for developers to join your distro is asking for trouble. The invitation itself is not entirely bad in my personal opinion and I am sure there are some openSUSE developers who are uncertain about openSUSEs future and maybe thinking of moving elsewhere. - sc0ri0n, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1Microsoft did not want to co-operate with Novel or any other Linux distributions. They were forced to do so by enterprise clients. They were told that Enterprises will never run on one and one platform only and they had to get their act together. If you listen to Ballmer and the whole event, you can clearly see this.
Now, OpenSource society is worried and they have right to do so. But there is no need to be paranoid! - loljews, on 10/12/2007, -8/+7The openSUSE developers are little ticked off to have their mailing list spammed with FUD from Mark Shuttleworth. I'm sure Ubuntu developers would be equally angry if Daniel Robbins from Gentoo spammed the devel-list with a message inviting Ubuntu developers to join Gentoo because Ubuntu is a noob distro.
- straxus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0@stmiller
Sounds like he's just trolling. Which is worse, really. - macewan, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2we could always turn to Debian or Gentoo is Ubuntu turns sour
- ggoyal, on 10/12/2007, -10/+8I currently prefer Suse. I dont know, it just feels like a more intergrated distro than others which seem a set of packages bundled together. A lot of their contributions make life much simpler - whether its the delta rpms for updates, configuration tools & options etc.
I had championed the migration of 8-10 computers in my workgroup to Opensuse and was happy with the decision until Novell decided to "sleep with the devil." I hope I dont have to migrate once again
Ubuntu may be good but as it is currently packaged, it just puts some roadblocks for advanced users, such as blocking the root account / ssh port etc. - Aces, on 10/12/2007, -6/+4Um... I'm pretty sure Ted was being facetious
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -57/+1Doesn't Linux have stolen Microsoft code in it or something?
I wouldn't trust my business to it.
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