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- DeathRay2K, on 01/26/2009, -0/+103Mark Shuttleworth Strikes the Right Tone On Windows 7 by Joe Panettieri
Canonical CEO and Ubuntu Evangelist Mark Shuttleworth on Windows 7Some people are scratching their heads over recent Windows 7-related comments attributed to Canonical CEO Mark Shuttleworth. But Shuttleworth’s words provide an important reminder that innovation and competition from Microsoft will help to propel Ubuntu and Linux forward. Skeptical? Read on.
Speaking with The Register, Shuttleworth apparently gave Microsoft a pat on the back for its Windows 7 efforts, and he declined to bash the forthcoming successor to Windows Vista.
Was Shuttleworth really “praising” Windows 7? I think not. Rather, I think Shuttleworth was stating that healthy competition drives IT innovation. And an innovative, motivated Microsoft is good for Linux.
The Threat From Within
Indeed, the biggest threat to Linux is arrogance rather than Microsoft. I hear from more and more Ubuntu and Linux converts who say the operating system is now good enough for the masses.
In some cases that’s certainly true. My oldest sons (ages 10 and eight) made the leap to Ubuntu without any “training.” Their conversion occurred when I purchased a Dell desktop with Ubuntu in mid-2007. I didn’t mention that it wasn’t a Windows device. They immediately figured out Firefox and OpenOffice and were off to the races. No training. No hassle.
Still, Linux fans have to remember that the vast majority of consumers and small business owners still have never heard of the operating system. And if they are familiar with Linux, they consider it a server system for corporate IT managers.
Windows 7 Changes Everything
Now here’s the ironic twist: When Microsoft ships Windows 7 in late 2009 or early 2010, the news will actually raise Linux’s profile on desktops and netbooks.
As PC vendors evaluate Windows 7’s pricing, they’ll scour the market for lower-cost options or simply embrace Linux on a few systems to gain pricing leverage when they negotiate Windows 7 licensing terms with Microsoft.
Similarly, the mainstream media — yes, even outlets like The Wall Street Journal and BusinessWeek — will mention Linux alternatives as they review Windows 7. Trust me: this is going to happen.
Generally speaking, Windows 7’s launch will be an industry inflection point for customers. And when customers are trying to make a purchase/upgrade decision they consider multiple directions.
That’s good news for Ubuntu and the broader Linux desktop movement, and Shuttleworth knows it. Today, he’s killing Microsoft with kindness. But when Windows 7 arrives, I’m sure he’ll strike a much more aggressive tone. - DeathRay2K, on 01/26/2009, -0/+96Page is slow, read below for the story.
- TheAttacks, on 01/26/2009, -10/+68Just because you use Ubuntu or OS X, doesn't mean you're obligated to dog Windows/Microsoft. They may not be the best in your eyes, but you have to appreciate their success and what they are doing to improve their product (even if it's not by means of "new" ideas).
- evilesttoast, on 01/26/2009, -1/+37I love how you dont force me to skip past this massive block of comment
- ha3er0, on 06/16/2009, -7/+38I think you guys got it wrong. Windows 7 is where it is today because of ever so competition and innovation from Linux and Mac. If they had it their way we would be still using Windows 98. Windows 7 won't be pushing Linux to innovate, it's other way around.
- acmethunder, on 01/26/2009, -0/+27The ever diplomatic Mark Shuttleworth
- Meep3D, on 01/26/2009, -9/+35Before anyone decides to bash MS for not 'innovating', bear in mind that Windows is pretty much the only major non-Unix derived OS out there, and that Linux is pretty much a clean-room copy of Unix, warts and all.
In fact I can think of very little true innovation from the Linux front that hasn't been featured somewhere else earlier. Even things like Frozen Bubble, Tux Racer and even the wobbly windows effect are just copied from elsewhere, altered slightly and given a different name.
Not that there is anything wrong with copying a good idea, but its grossly hypocritical to berate MS or anyone else for doing so when Linux is possibly the worst offender. - goffy59, on 01/26/2009, -5/+26Apple and MS are the enemy's if you want to talk about companies that attack customer choice and keep them boxed into proprietary gimmicks.
One reason why Apple is a piece of *****, is because I couldn't goto their website and ask for an AMD processor. They only use one CPU brand at a time and its pretty pathetic. For people who don't know much about computers; Apple is perfect. But for computer enthusiasts that like to build computers and customize them; PC's(Linux/Windows) is the way to go.
Go ahead and digg me down Mac Fanboys. I'm only telling you the truth. - freediverx, on 01/26/2009, -15/+36Hatred of Microsoft is not based on a simple us/them rivalry. It's all about Microsoft's history of unfairly using their monopoly power to crush competitors who offered superior products. it's about 20+ years of FUD, lies, and crappy products.
Having said that, I agree that (fair) competition is a good thing all around, as it keeps companies on their toes and drives continuing innovation. - goffy59, on 01/26/2009, -6/+23The same could be said about Apple.
- iambrucenolan, on 01/26/2009, -2/+16Even I love Ubuntu, it would be a big shame if Ubuntu dies out under Windows 7. Microsoft is pushing 7 to stifle out Linux from netbooks. Wonder why they treat Linux as their enemy #1 instead of Apple.
Still, Go Shuttleworth Go!
Make a beautiful, better Ubuntu Jaunty! - sloppychris, on 01/26/2009, -4/+17Package management? Virtual desktops? The cube? Context sensitive image resizing? The list goes on.
- newwatch51, on 01/26/2009, -0/+10"Nobody would want to clone Windows"
Actually, there have been several projects to do just that. Most of them have died out but ReactOS is still being actively developed. - brundlefly76, on 01/26/2009, -0/+7its not diplomacy, its intelligence.
People forget that before Ubuntu, Linux pundits *still* insisted it was as usable as Windows, end of story. Ubuntu was one of the first Linux distros to stand up and say 'hey, there are a lot of real usability problems with Linux that are very hard, which Windows and MacOS handle much better. We're going to tackle those.'
The major usability advancements of Linux have rarely been accomplished by the blindfolded pundits who insist that Windows sucks and Linux ***** gold bricks. Its been accomplished by people like Shuttleworth who can objectively identify the advantages and disadvantages of different OS's without wearing a cheerleader skirt with a big penguin on it.
Anyone who says OS - Windows, Linux, or MacOS is all fine and dandy, superior to all OS's categorically for any user, and has no major issues to address or can't borrow an idea from another OS isn't worth listening to. - 3242130193, on 01/26/2009, -3/+11It's because Microsoft cannot compete with Linux's "business" model. How do you fight open source? The only way is to stifle all interest in it, and that will never happen.
Also, there are many other reasons that people will adopt Linux. MS still has absurd licensing fees and governments all over the world continue to adopt Linux for transparency, cutting unnecessary costs and open standards. Plus Linux/other FOSS will always outdo MS on the server market and as an extension, Linux is far more customizable than Windows will ever be, meaning that power users will still not be persuaded to give up the penguin.
The fight will continue - abbathdoom, on 01/26/2009, -0/+8Shuttleworth himself has always said that Linux needed to copy other OS to get feature parity before it can start truly innovating. He said in an interview a while back that he believes now Linux has all the same features more or less as everything else out there that now is when the true innovation will begin.
- MrChunks, on 01/26/2009, -0/+7@f54280,
Point 4 in your list is patently wrong. I'm not a Windows user (I have been in the past - Linux and OS X for me now) but to say "Windows is unusable out of the box" is simply wrong. When it's straight out of the box is when Windows is at it's most usable. It's a few months down the line where it all goes wrong. - brickbat, on 01/26/2009, -6/+13My hatred comes purely and simply from the build up over the years of unfulfilled promises and disappointments. It's like being beaten for years and then finally getting away and being so pissed off you didn't do it 10 years sooner. Are you listening Microsoft? I don't give a ***** how good people say Windows 7 is. I've had a god damn gutfull. Go screw yourselves Microsoft and stick your registry up your ass.
- reticulate, on 01/26/2009, -1/+8Apple can get away with it because they don't have anywhere near the market penetration that Microsoft does, and won't get sued and/or investigated for bundling. Simple as that.
- KibibyteBrain, on 01/26/2009, -1/+8"Switchable desktops were designed and implemented at Xerox PARC as "Rooms" by D.A. Henderson and Stuart Card in 1986 based upon work by Patrick P. Chan in 1984. This work was covered by a US patent."
There is also prior art for desktop switchers in general, and compositing systems, from which placing a desktop in space is trivial, if not very usable.
Context Sensitive resizing has been in academic papers for years. Hardly a Linux innovation.
Package management is true, this is one of the big innovations pioneered in Linux systems, and is probably Linux's greatest contribution to OS technology. - Toshibi, on 01/26/2009, -0/+6Chunks and Goffy, I'm fairly sure what he means is that Windows out of of the box has next to nothing with it. In Ubuntu you have a full office suite, a really good image manipulation program, a multiprotocol IM client and a ton of other programs.
- mr5150, on 01/26/2009, -1/+7"....had MS not continually raised the bar."
that's where you lost me.
its always been the other was around.
buried - stimpack, on 01/26/2009, -0/+5Well the lack of customisation is a problem. Having to buy a machine with a bigger display just because you want a faster CPU/Larger hard drive...
His post does seem like flamebait and yet all his points are correct, I dabbled in the Mac arena for a while, sadly, too many Mac fans follow blindly, there is a lot Apple could do to improve, but no one tells them. (take .mac, any other community would have shot that down in hours and forced them to improve it) - computershack, on 01/26/2009, -1/+6ubuntu won't die. MS need Ubuntu and other leading distros to keep them going. I seriously doubt Win7 would've happened had Ubuntu not come on as fast as it has.
- smotpoker, on 01/26/2009, -1/+5Plus Linux is always pushing the innovation envelope. There are tons of technologies and features that Linux distributions have had for years that MS is only just now adopting. Half of the user-friendliness advantages Windows has had were provided by vendors [initially].
Much of the reason Linux has 'caught up' on that front was by surpassing MS's efforts and supplying their own user-friendly GUIs for hardware and peripherals whose vendors only supply Windows interfaces. They have a head start of years working with these features at a low-level and figuring out how to integrate them properly. They may still be a bit behind with some of the more proprietary apps/hardware but there are usually decent alternatives and with everything else Linux is leaps and bounds ahead of the competition. - alexiadeath, on 01/26/2009, -2/+6It wont. Cant beat free and open without becoming it.
- iambrucenolan, on 01/26/2009, -4/+8One of the reason why Microsoft doesn't supply all those things is because EU forces them to offer anything beyond the bare bones OS.
No IE, No WMP, Nothing!
How the hell am I supposed to download Firefox? - MrChunks, on 01/26/2009, -0/+4@Toshibi,
Are you trying to tell me that Paint, Wordpad, Calculator and Minesweeper aren't a fully fledged office suite?
Oh.
You make a fair point. - ThantiK, on 01/26/2009, -0/+4What I would love to see, even though I'm a linux techy; is Apple refine and release OSX for the masses. You would find microsoft tripping all over themselves so damn fast it would probably break necks.
- javaroast, on 01/26/2009, -0/+4If you are going to call someone a dumbass for not knowing the history of computing at least get your history correct
NT 4.0 Release July 1996
Windows 95 Release August 1995
Slackware (used as an example) Release July 1993 - Heavy, on 01/26/2009, -1/+5Linus Torwalds:
All att microsoft are stupid and ugly. - maisis00, on 01/26/2009, -0/+3I have to agree with you to a some what limited extent.
I know from my own experience the single best performance boost I got when switching from WindowsXP to Ubuntu came with the improved support of my ATI card. This had nothing to do with Microsoft and everything to do with ATI. I bought my Fujitsu laptop in 2005 well before the AMD/ATI merger. Once AMD bought ATI the company directed a load of cash towards ATI driver support for Linux and I can definitely see the benefits in the performance of my video card. Before this I had not seen a WindowsXP driver update for my specific ATI chipset since November of 2005. While Microsoft has seriously screwed the pooch on serveral occations sometimes the performance issues are not their fault. In some of those instances it can be the hardware vendors who are not keeping up and optimizing their older products with the latest versions of the OS. If I ran a desktop and not a laptop then simply upgrading to a new video card would have been an excellent answer to my WindowsXP video woes. However when you are running a laptop your hardware upgrade options are some what limited.
I am not trying to be a Microsoft appologist here but there are sometimes mitigating factors. I think that if the people who ran Microsoft were not such douche bags we might not hate on MS as much as we normally do around here. :) I want to end by saying, "God I love my Ubuntu!" :) - drgmdp, on 01/26/2009, -0/+3http://digg.com/linux_unix/Mark_Shuttleworth_Strik ...
- cphi915866, on 01/26/2009, -3/+6The original Mac OS, ideas and even the concept of mouse based computing was lifted from Xerox. Both Apple and MS lift ideas from other people.
- buddyfarr, on 01/26/2009, -2/+5come on now, don't sugar-coat it...please tell us exactly how you feel. We ARE listening, come on, it's ok....you can tell us.
- imakecomments, on 01/26/2009, -0/+3http://www.d-e-f-i-n-i-t-e-l-y.com/ :)
- Swivelstick, on 01/26/2009, -1/+4Please emote some more and show us your control.
- maisis00, on 01/26/2009, -0/+3I believe that the reason Microsoft treats UNIX/Linux as the biggest threat is because it is. While distros like Ubuntu have the same core code under the hood as Apple's OSX there is still a stark difference in many aspects. I may be an Ubuntu user but Apple’s OSX is still a more refined and superior platform for the user experience. That is one of those DUH statements but I still thought it worth saying. :) However, I believe that the reason Apple is not the biggest threat at the moment is the economic factor. It has to do with the rule of free markets. If you have two likeminded products sitting side by side the one with the lower cost has the greatest likelihood of selling the most units. Likeminded may be a stretch here but go with me for a second.
Now, I know there is a serious possibly of my getting flamed with all the exceptions to my next statements but the facts as I seem them is that pound for pound Apple is still more expensive than Windows. I have used both OSs. While the user experience with Apple was much more pleasant it is still a more expensive platform to get into at an entry level. You could argue about performance all day long but there is no need because I will concede in advance to Apples better performance. However, better performance does not convince the common end user to spend over $1000USD just to surf the web and check their email. Now I am sure someone is thinking, hey you jerk that is why Apple made the Mac Mini at only $599. To that I say, yes I know, but a consumer can still pick up a cheap off-brand MS based bundle in their local Best Buy for almost half that cost. It sucks to say it, but while Apple makes a damned good computer it’s entry level price point is too expensive for mass adoption at this time. Especially when you take into account the growing instability of the global economy. In Apple’s defense of their high price point I will say this, I am a firm believer in the old adage, “you get what you pay for.” Hence my previously stated better user experience for the higher priced Apple machines. So that we are clear there is no hating on Apple from this end just some disappointing facts as I see them. :)
With my Apple analysis out of the way back to the real threat to Microsoft as I see it. The real threat comes from the cheap low end desktop and netbooks running some freely available derivative of UNIX. For now I am just going to generically call them “net machines.” I am sure there is a fancy new term out this week but I do not care enough to dig around the lexicon of this weeks most idiotic en vogue technology terms. :)
It tends to scare a company like Microsoft when a consumer can pick up a UNIX based “net machine” like the ASUS EeePC for less than the same cost as a retail edition of the latest Microsoft OS. The real competition to Microsoft today is not in the innovation of Apple but in the economy conscious consumers willing to try out these low price point UNIX based “net machine” alternatives. The Microsoft people will say that the quality of these wayward little “net machines” is not as good as Windows. Ah yes that could be, but I won’t start a flame war here by taking sides on that issue. However, I answer that argument by going back to the same point I used between my Microsoft and Apple comparisons earlier. When a person just wants to surf the web and read their email these little “net machines” will suffice and you definitely cannot beat the price. Microsoft gained a health market share with a lot of help from the low end PC sales throughout the last decade. However, the emergence of a low cost UNIX based “net machine” in a turbulent economy positions itself really well to erode some of Microsoft’s market share. Granted it won’t be much at first but the potential is staggering and enough to cause Microsoft some alarm. The last thing Microsoft wants is for people to start getting a pleasant user experience from a cheap non-Microsoft based computer. Once that happens the consumer mindset starts to change, reconsidering previous stances on certain products. The consumer thinks, “Hey, if this alternative little machine served my less demanding computing needs maybe there is an alternative that meets my more expressive computing needs.”
I believe that the consumer mind set change that may occur due in part to this tough economy is where the serious fight between Apple, Microsoft and UNIX based OSs will begin. Why do I add the Unix based machines and not just leave it for mom and dad to duke it out? Because once you have strengthened the market share of these little “net machines” they won’t just go away quietly into that still night. They will have established a market share and they will be hungry for more.
I could be completely off base here. But this is my opinion like or not, agree with it or not. :) - bluechild, on 01/26/2009, -0/+3Actually you're wrong. Apple does not sell an OS. It sells an integrated final solution and the consumer either buys it or not. It's the same as a computer store selling a prebuilt machine in the sense that they can combine hardware and software in any way the want and sell it to those that are interested. As for OSX being ahead in terms of quality, I disagree but I won't go there.
- digitalpencil, on 01/26/2009, -1/+4Competition inspires innovation but it is a two-way street..
Yes, without OS X/*nix we wouldn't have seen Windows progress as far as it has but the same could be said of OS X and the various iterations of Linux available today.
Each of these OSs are going to continue to evolve thanks largely to pressure from their respective competition. The only question that should be on the minds of consumers and devs alike is whether or not they are progressing in the right direction? With *nix already sitting comfortably on lo-end hardware and SL/W7 taking important steps to reduce footprint and slow the bloat of what was quickly becoming a behemoth in stature, I think we can begin to answer that question with a 'yes'. - wbkang, on 01/26/2009, -0/+2it's really easy to get the cube thing done with dwm..
- ozid, on 01/26/2009, -2/+4because linux is a real threat to windows. on the OS front, apple doesn't pose a threat in the same way that linux does. it's on the manufactures to step their hardware game up and MS is what it can in the meantime.
- Kabloink, on 01/26/2009, -0/+2Vista does not run faster than XP and it never will unless they remove the DRM crap.
- tomz17, on 01/26/2009, -0/+2Are you high? ATI support in linux is so unbelievably bad that it has become legendary! Catalyst for windows is notoriously bad too, but at least all of the cards features work (try doing hardware overlays on a non-vga/dvi output in linux with a radeon 9xxx series. hint: you can't!)
I'm glad you had a positive experience, and I will agree that recent drivers (for modern cards) are orders of magnitude better than what existed a year or two back (which isn't saying much), but IMHO it's still a large pile of steaming poo. - bluechild, on 01/26/2009, -2/+42 years ago linux distributions were nowhere near where they are now and even more a year from now.
- rft3rd, on 01/26/2009, -2/+4Linus Torwalds:
...................... <silence> - sirhomer, on 01/27/2009, -0/+2The only problem with that is Mac OS X doesn't have the same level of driver support as Linux or Windows. Yes, once you take OS X off of certified Apple hardware(tm) it becomes a major pain to get all hardware working.
- bj1989, on 01/27/2009, -0/+2I don't think windows can be seperated easily in a kernel and software/interface, I guess windows is like huge spaghetti mess clogged together and pulling it apart would destroy it.
- arbulus, on 01/26/2009, -1/+3No, right now Linux is putting an end to rapid Linux growth. There's so much in-fighting and squabbling that nothing is getting done. Plus, there's only so much you can do without corporate backing (read: money).
Example: X.org is stagnating, KDE has polarized everyone, Compiz Fusion is dead in the water, GNOME has decided to never do anything new, no one is innovating in the UI department (except KDE, but everyone is so pissed at them that it doesn't matter), and no distro has been able to convince any substantial numbers of commercial software vendors to port their apps to Linux. And how many people have you ever heard say that they don't want Linux to become "mainstream" or to be able to run anything but purely FOSS?
Please don't get me wrong: I used Ubuntu as my only OS for more than two years. I wouldn't touch anything else. I've tried numerous other distros and have made a point to use as much FOSS as possible. But I just couldn't keep going. The whole rest of the tech industry is whizzing past the Linux community while it basically stands still. - TonyMurray, on 01/26/2009, -2/+4Open Source rule #27:
Your competitor's failure is not necessary for success. -
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