What is Digg?66 Comments
- sqrt7744, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13i440 has some sort of personal vendetta against ubuntu, every time ubuntu is mentioned he trolls. Maybe he caught his girlfriend fantasizing about Shuttleworth?
- mDot, on 10/12/2007, -5/+15Sometimes I think you have very valid opinions and Dugg down because of peoples general inability to understand sarcasm. Other times I think your sarcasm generator is just broken.
This time is the latter. That, or you're just trolling for negative Diggs. - chieffy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Go have a look at i440's comments toward free software and Linux...
http://digg.com/users/i440/commented
he's pretty much always bagging it out. Now do you think people should view him as just being sarcastic this time? Or, is he sarcastic all the time? In either case, that's his problem. - mooninite, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12Um, user managers have been in GNU/Linux distros for a long time.
Why is this on the front page? - robotify, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10because it's a magic word that instantly skyrockets any story to the front page.
- mDot, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Typically things get to the front page because a certain number of people "Digg" it. Digg isn't about new news, its about whats hot right now. Whether that's new News or old News has nothing to do with it.
- chieffy, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6@Rub3X: I'm digging you down because you are using a mass generalisation to bag out thousands upon thousands of people. I proudly use Ubuntu and I don't call myself a guru. I find it easy to use and I don't have the time to learn how to install and use other distros. My 8yo and my girlfriend can use it without any trouble. I don't like MS because of their crappy software, their lack of ethics, and their FUD slinging against free software.
- kurupt, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5@Phocion55 - Your point is truly a valid one at that. However, I can understand why the author of the article specifically tied it to Ubuntu, as it continues to grow in popularity amongst those users who are unfamiliar with Linux.
Certain users who are more adept at learning about the bells and whistles of their operating systems will be well aware that this applies to all distributions running GNOME. But, for a user who has moved over from Windows, he/she simply want to know how to get from point A to point B with their system.
If that user needed help on something related to his/her operating system, you would expect them to do a search for "Ubuntu --insert help topic here--" instead of "GNOME --topic here--" - right? So I guess it makes sense from the standpoint that this will provide help to those users who are merely looking for a way to transition to Linux without being bothered to understand the ins-and-outs. - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Good point, I respect it. I need to write an article called "GNU/Linux, GNOME, Ubuntu, and how it all fits together". Linux has many pieces to it - and if it were a puzzle, Ubuntu users would be missing 75% of the pieces.
- mallow005, on 10/12/2007, -9/+13Should be titled "Managing Users In Gnome", but I guess people will start thinking Gnome IS Ubuntu soon anyway.
i440, do you have any usability studies to back this up? Or are you just going off of personal experience? - isolationism, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4The umask is the part that specifies permissions for the mount point, in octal. However, a mask is subtractive: So if you wanted to allow all permissions to all users, you enter 0000 (which you have), which equates to permission 0777: Everyone can do everything. (The zero at the front of the values to denote octal is implied but it's safest to enter it anyway).
If you want to start removing permissions, like removing the write bits for groups and all, the octal permission would be 0755 -- so you would enter the umask as being 0022. The whole fstab string for that drive would look like this:
/dev/hdd5 /media/Media vfat iocharset=utf8,umask=0022 0 0
Good luck! - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -6/+10Wow. This is the SAME EXACT way to do it for almost EVERY OTHER Linux distro in Gnome. No digg cuz you're pushing useless crap that just has "Ubuntu" in the title.
....Stop making Ubuntu seem like something completely seperate from GNU/Linux. You're giving the wrong impression to new and potential Linux users!!!!!!! - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@chieffy - But don't you think people should be properly taught about GNU/Linux, GNOME, KDE, etc. instead of just saying "This is all Ubuntu. Don't worry about it." ?
- babbling, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Actually, they're giving the right impression. Each "Linux distribution" really should be regarded as a separate operating system. They are usually incompatible with each other. A program compiled and packaged for one is unlikely to work on another.
People think "it's all just Linux", and expect programs to work for "Linux", and get upset if they don't. - i440, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7"Maybe he caught his girlfriend fantasizing about Shuttleworth?"
Yes. But I understand, as I too have fantasized about Shuttleworth an undisclosed number of times.
Hey, I'm human. - chieffy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5Because people are digging it! That's how digg works.
But also this is a guide for complete noobs. Your noob friends won't have to ask you for advice on how to set up users. You can just show them this. - lintrippz, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5It might be useful to some extent, but I see no difference managing ubuntu's users from managing Slackware's or SuSE's users, that said, I wonder why it's directed to ubuntu distro users.
- chieffy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3@Phocion: First, you are expecting new users to use the CLI, second they have to know what to type to see that particular man page, third man pages are not easy to understand or follow (for new users).
The reason this sort of guide needs to be written is there are too many people like you (and that includes me) who can't always think like a noob. Noobs need simple, step-by-step instructions with nice pictures and it needs to be GUI oriented.
It's all too common for advanced users to push people in the deep end and expect them to just swim. IMO, once people have there feet wet they can start wading around and getting used to things. Then you introduce the CLI (if necessary) and explain the intricacies of what actually makes up their distro. - dharm, on 10/12/2007, -2/+5this is another one of those "it works for any distro, and is specific to gnome not to ubuntu" articles...
i am not sure if the writers of these types of articles are just looking for hits, or if its their lack of knowledge of linux - NathanBalon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4I also noticed that i440 posts negative comments anytime there is an article on Linux. If you don't like Linux that is fine, but there is really no need to let your opinion be known on ever Linux article.
- AstralSin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3This may be beating a dead horse but so is this article. This is valid for ALL GNOME USERS, not just Ubuntu. And if one really wants to know what linux is they should do some research before just diving face first into the abomination that is ubuntu and make a decision on their own about which distro to use. I mean, if one cant figure out how to add and manage users in gnome, there isn't a hell of a whole lot of hope for their linux career in general, i mean its in the menu.if one can't find something thats in the menu then they probably cant even operate windows and they wouldnt see this anyway so its not very useful in the first place.
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2i agree with both AstralSin and chieffy in ways. Bottom line: you gotta start somewhere!
There's this little search engine called Google that returns some cool stuff when you search for "Linux" "shell commands". You shouldn't have to be spoon-fed colorful screenshots to figure this stuff out. - chieffy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2This topic of new users being blinded to the backend is actually discussed in one of the other articles on FSM:
http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/node/1695
You might find it interesting. - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@kurupt - I guess I just feel like teaching people "Ubuntu" and not "GNU/Linux" is a half-assed way of presenting a really good thing that should be UNDERSTOOD.
Nothing against Ubuntu...it's a fine distro. Just disagree how it's becoming popular because it's "trendy" and "easy". It's the marketing approach that I disagree with, and the "I Just Installed Ubuntu Yesterday So I Now Know Everything And Will Bury Your Comments To Death" users it produces. - barbobot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2http://www.tldp.org/HOWTO/LDAP-HOWTO/
- barbobot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2umask=0022
- karamba_kid, on 10/12/2007, -1/+3$ man adduser
ubuntu has defined the term "ease of use" for me. - chieffy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2@Phocion:
Newuser: Um... excuse me Mister Phocion what's a shell command.
We can't expect everyone to be self-starters or to be able to pull themselves up by their bootstraps. I mean you guys are very clever (serious) being able to start in Linux with no help. I couldn't do it.
I really don't agree with the idea of abandoning new users. I thought Linux/free software was all about community. I'd hate to think potential new members of that community would be scared away by people saying "Look it up on google". Google can be frustrating at times, if you don't quite know what to look for or what keywords to use. You a whole lot of info and then have to wade through irrelavant stuff to find what you really wanted. Now, imagine how hard it is for noobs.
It really doesn't benefit you (as part of the Linux community) to treat new members like that. If you give them a hand now, in 5 years time they could be helping code an app you want to use or even helping you on some project you might start.
What goes around comes around. - chieffy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I think that we should be making it as easy as possible for new users. Now, IMO, Ubuntu is a very good distro (if not the best) for new users.
As new users become experienced users they will naturally become familiar with what parts of Ubuntu are also, individually, part of GNU/GNOME/CUPS/Linux/etc.
Imagine being a new user (I mean new to Linux and not overly tech savvy) and trying to search for info on managing users and only finding a guide on how to do it for Fedora. You'd be likely to say: "What's Fedora...oh, another type of GNU/Linux. But I don't use Fedora I use Ubuntu. Where's a guide for Ubuntu?".
The actual article's title is "Managing users in Ubuntu" and the subtitle "A short, practical guide to user management in Ubuntu and GNU/Linux". - ubuntudemon, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2A related wiki page :
https://help.ubuntu.com/community/AddUsersHowto - sark666, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1How about a gui option to not have users to be able to have read access to each others home? This is the default from what I gather in gnu spirit of sharing. But say in a small business someone by the gui should be able to change this. As a matter of fact, I've never agreed to this being the default. You should have to opt in a user in giving read privledges to world.
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3man adduser
- barbobot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1you can change permissions using nautilus i believe, but it would just be faster to use chmod
- VashTSPD, on 10/12/2007, -3/+4I think that's a matter of opinion. it's naive to say OS "eeks" :P does everything better then XP. or even that one OS is definitively better then the rest.
- bilbus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Does ubuntu have a central LDAP to store users? Like Active directory or NDS?
- AstralSin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+2well, i started using linux when i was 17, in 1998 and i had no training wheels. i read man pages and searched on google and consulted forums and irc. are people these days too good to do what i did to learn the best operating system in the world? i say if you wish to operate an efficient machine, you learn how to use it. just like an automobile or a peice of machinery at work, you learn how to use it then you use it, not the other way around. Nor do you cater to people's laziness in learning the required subject matter.
- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3@babbling - "Each "Linux distribution" really should be regarded as a separate operating system. They are usually incompatible with each other."
...and setting up users in GNOME is NOT one of these incompatibilities. This is how to use a standard GNOME frontend to manage users....NOT Ubuntu in specific.
This article should be titled "Managing users in GNU/Linux (Ubuntu users - this means you!)".
An APPROPRIATE specific title to a submission would be something like "Setting Up XGL in Dapper Drake" - or something to the like. - mDot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@JayMcNasty
Nah, I got it when I went to the linked site. Now I know how to set the permissions for umask as compared to a normal file. Thank you. - chieffy, on 10/12/2007, -2/+3It's because lots of people new to linux want guides on how to do things specifically for Ubuntu because it's the noob's distro of choice. Now, you and I may know that it's a guide for GNOME and not Ubuntu, but that doesn't mean they do.
- mDot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1This isn't covered in the article, but maybe someone here can help me with my fstab entry. I have a FAT32 formatted drive I use for Media storage. My fstab entry for this drive looks like: /dev/hdd5 /media/Media vfat iocharset=utf8,umask=000 0 0
I'd like to restrict access to Read Only for all users except my SU. How would I go about implementing this restriction? - Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Maybe I will......or a 1950's-like black and white flash cartoon called "Ubuntu and You".
- chieffy, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@Phocion: Now that's a good idea. Why don't you propose writing that for FSM? proposals@... they release article under free licences so you can republish elsewhere too. You'll probably have to leave out the Ubuntu gripes though.
- mDot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Thanks for the help. I'm running out of things that aren't exactly as a wish them to be on my system, in fact after I tweak the colors in my theme my setup will be perfect.
::sigh::
Who would've thought having an OS that just works could be a _problem_? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1/dev/hdd5 /media/Media vfat iocharset=utf8,umask=0003 0 0
umask is the opposite of a normal file permission.
0777 = 0000
0765 = 0012
0111 = 0666
To create a umask write down the file permissions you want to have say 774 (full control for owner and group, and read for world) then do some math. How much do you need to add to 7 to get 7? Write down a 0. How much do you need to add to 7 to get 7? Write down a 0. How much do you need to add to 4 to 7? Write down a 3. Then your umask is ready to go.
A file permission calculator is helpful when you are just starting to learn check out http://www.javascriptkit.com/script/script2/chmodcal3.shtml
The first bit is for the stick bit btw. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1oops I dropped the ball in my comment and didn't give anyone execute so they won't be able to open folders. Oh well the people above me got it right :)
- frazras, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1That's all nice and everything, pretty easy for a newbie. What I would like to know how to do is how do I setup a network where users have their home on the server or even better a distributed file system across the network. That's the story I would DIGG!
- kurupt, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1@Phocion55
I'm in complete agreement with you. I think everyone who uses Ubuntu (or any distro or any OS for that matter) SHOULD want to understand it. But, a lot of people aren't very self sufficient and a lot of those people want the simple GUI to do everything for them. Show one of my family members the terminal and they'll walk away and say "Just fix it so I can check my e-mail, please?"
Everyone is so used to the "WIndows" way, they don't know that underneath the GUI is a powerful set of tools that can be run using the CLI.
I'm very happy with Ubuntu, and for the first time I feel I can move my parents away from Windows towards Linux without having to coddle them with the little details they would need to grasp the OS.
It looks good and it does whatever they want. Many other users are cut from the same cloth (which is why Microsoft has such a dominance of the market.)
Until recently, there had been no "true" rival to Windows. Ubuntu isn't YET a rival to windows, but I see it definitely making it's presence felt as each new release gets put out. - caliform, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1I haven't even seen a single digg for the use of GNU. 99% of modern-day GNU users seem avid to call everything GNU 'Linux'.
- AstralSin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+1uhhhh.... just google it. i guarantee if you google "how do i add a user on " you'll come up with something on the first response. and if you're too stupid to do that, then you should be wearing a helmet.
- i440, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@NathanBalon (second post)
Agreed. The study claims that 'strong improvements' are needed, but fails to elaborate on what, specifically, needs to be improved. It doesn't seem to me that a lot of effort was put into it. Nevertheless, it was the only related study I could find. We are in need of a much more in-depth piece of research on the subject. -
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