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367 Comments
- Smegzor, on 01/21/2009, -13/+82Most of his problems stem from a lack of basic research. If I didn't know XP and dived into that, I'm sure I would have much the same problems. Help is just a mouse click away and the help icon is pretty obviously help. I don't think he ever used it. I looked up how to install software and while it wasn't immediately clear, I soon found a note explaining how Ubuntu uses deb files, not rpm.
- kudelkosm, on 01/21/2009, -1/+54As much as I'm sick of reading these "Hey, just a regular person switches to Linux. Let's see what happens" articles, I think this was perhaps the best article I've seen so far that accurately depicts what a regular consumer will encounter when switching operating systems.
Instead of slamming him and saying "well, I can't believe you wouldn't try a .DEB package. Any idiot knows that!", the Linux community should use this as an example on how to improve the end user experience. Insulting someone, or criticizing them, or instead of answering their question, recommending about 300 alternative software applications isn't going to help.
And, sure, Windows is pretty standard and most people can figure it out, but take for an example an average family computer user who just replaced their old Windows 98 machine with a Vista machine. Do you really think they will ask for help or read documentation? Most people are excited to use their computers right out of the box, and will skip manuals and help websites and phone numbers and just click around and play with stuff until they figure it out. - Ophie, on 01/21/2009, -8/+57I never had any problems with installing or with the network. Everything worked off the bat.
- DougVitale, on 01/21/2009, -14/+51The author brings up many common difficulties that new Linux users have to deal with when they are used to doing things the Windows way. Ubuntu/Linux developers would be wise to pay attention to his gripes and try to eliminate the challenges he faced. The author concludes:
"Will I be giving up Windows for Linux? Certainly not. The inability to work with Word markup, problems with connecting to Vista machines, and difficulty in installing and updating software means that I'll be using Windows for the foreseeable future."
I want Linux to succeed on the desktop as much as anybody, but this is not good.
This man's experiences, along with the negative publicity generated by Abbie "Ubuntu Girl" Schubert, should be a wake-up call. - Snap65, on 01/21/2009, -1/+31Adobe Flash has had a deb package for Ubuntu 8.04+ for a while now.
- ZeNiTH456, on 01/21/2009, -5/+35"problems with connecting to Vista machines"
I'm still having major issues trying to connect Vista machines to each other. - drcreek, on 01/21/2009, -5/+34Nice but I wish they would have stopped calling it a linux review and called it a Ubuntu Review.
- blah247, on 01/21/2009, -2/+28I haven't touched Linux in about 8 years. I loaded up a version on my laptop and within a few days was doing what computers were made for... downloading and watching porn with DIVX.
- MattFromSeattle, on 01/21/2009, -4/+28This is probably one of the most fair evaluations of switching to Linux I've read. I still consider it a success as the user is more open minded about Linux than they were in the past.
- yurimxpxman, on 01/21/2009, -2/+23He says the Windows Update tool is easier because the updates make more sense. What the HELL kind of information does Microsoft give you about them? You just click a button that says "Install downloaded updates," and you don't get even the slightest bit of information until you visit the update website, which tells you absolutely NOTHING about what it's patching.
Ubuntu's update manager tells you which packages it's updating, and to which version. These are just security and bug fixes, people, just like Windows Update. Windows Update doesn't automatically bring you from XP to Vista, so why would you automatically expect more from another system? - jdmulloy, on 01/21/2009, -11/+30Nothing new here. He's not the first tech journalist to try Linux for a few weeks and whine about it.
- boomcubist, on 01/21/2009, -1/+20Yeah I didn't really understand the part about Flash, as you need to select an installer type on the site and the bottom one is '.deb for Ubuntu 8.04+'. It's next to impossible to miss.
- diggopolous, on 01/21/2009, -4/+22Oh no. Not this again.
- Justizzle, on 01/21/2009, -2/+18Sucks he had such a hard time. Every install of Ubuntu I've ever done has been flawless and easy. I never bothered with dual-booting (not a big PC gamer), so I'm unfamiliar with Wubi.
I didn't really like the part about him wishing for the Windows update manager. "...you may feel as if you need a Ph.D. in physics merely to install new applications or updates." Is he insane? A simple Google search would have sufficed to find out how to get the newest Open Office repository showing up. That's the solution almost 9 times out of 10 with any problem in Linux. Even on Windows, you encounter times when you have to edit the registry. What do you do? Search Google...
It almost seems like these people who "try and survive a week with Linux" somehow manage to lose their common sense somewhere along the way, and the OS gets negative press about it when it's the user's fault entirely.
Just my two cents. - yurimxpxman, on 01/21/2009, -0/+16dmbwheee,
Ubuntu does not normally add new features with its update manager (these are generally saved for a major release). These are all bug fixes, some of which are for security. Basically, they keep your programs from crashing as often, kind of like Windows Update was supposed to do. It doesn't install new programs or anything like that, and there's absolutely nothing "bloated" about any of the software in the repositories.
He may not care much about updates to XULRunner.. until he realises that it's one of Firefox's backends. Microsoft has similar updates for Internet Explorer, except instead of telling you this, they say "Security updates available." - cannonball, on 01/21/2009, -0/+15He wouldn't have had to do any research if he had just used Synaptic Package Manager. He could easily just select a program, select install, and that's it.
And as "rudimentary" as it sounds, people can often ***** up installing a Windows program by selecting a 64bit version instead of a 32bit version which is kind of like what he did (software designed for a different Linux distribution instead of Debian)
Its not like he had to read a book or anything. He just didn't know some simple little facts. - pokemeintheye, on 01/21/2009, -2/+17"As a long-suffering Windows user, I'm used to this kind of thing, so I tried the three-finger salute and pressed Ctrl-Alt-Del -- twice. Again, no go. Eventually, I had to unplug the machine's power cord, take out the battery, then put the battery and power cord back in. Then I restarted."
This guy never heard of holding down the power button??? - BigDaddy123, on 01/21/2009, -3/+17Been living with it for 2 months now; where's my article, computerworld.com?
But seriously, what's with all these "I tried Linux for XX weeks and survived" stories? - yurimxpxman, on 01/21/2009, -3/+17Let's see, installed kubuntu.. didn't have to install any drivers manually. Installed Windows.. *****, I had to spend two hours tracking down the damn things.
- DBeta, on 01/21/2009, -0/+14The updater updates practically every program on the system. It's quite comprehensive. That said, it will only install extra "packages" if they are required as part of an update for an already installed program(and it will notify you of additions). Everything from Firefox to the kernel is updated via the update manager, so it can be quite a bit, but it's fast, and rarely requires a reboot.
Many of the things listed in his screenshot are things that are already install, but not specific programs he would actually run. But rather, they are packages that are ran by other software, or pieces of software that belong to a bigger thing. For example, Gnome's games are packaged together under something like gnome-games. So the games can be updated without the entirety of Gnome needing an update.
It seems a little strange when coming from a Windows world, but imagine if, rather than flash, acrobat, java, yahoo IM, MSNIM, and office all loading something into the background to watch for updates, it's all handled under one single update manager. You can, if you would like, set it to automatically install security updates via the "Software Sources" program in the System menu. It's more secure, faster, and easier than Windows system. Also, in "Software Sources" you can tell it to alert you of non Long Term Release versions of Ubuntu, and you can preform a "rolling upgrade", which means a nice clean update to new versions of the OS right Update Manager. - kd420, on 01/21/2009, -6/+20It was a good, fair review but I think most of his problems stem from other companies' incompetence. This doesn't mean that the problems aren't real, just that there is only so much the Linux community can do in respect to these problems. Adobe is terrible with their Linux support and of course MS will never release products for Linux (on a side note, Adobe now at least provides a .deb for easy installation of flash, and it is in the repos for Ubuntu). Hopefully they open up a little bit so people like the author who are trying Linux won't have as many problems. A great man once said "...we will extend a hand if you are willing to unclench your fist." ;)
- lilrabbit129, on 01/21/2009, -3/+16But what if its not in the repo? Or what if you don't know the exact name of the program?
- peschelnet, on 01/21/2009, -1/+14Maybe I'm just annoyed today so here's a grain of salt...please take.
<rant>
I've been using nix for a couple of year as my primary OS and love it most days. I also remember hating it because it was like learning to walk again.
Anyway, my complaint isn't about nix it's about this obsession of digg users to search out every possible article that has someones experience with using nix and giving up windows for X amout of time. REALLY?!
Are all of these experiences so unique that they need to make it to the front page of Digg? We as nix users can't find something more interesting then "How I survived my first 2 weeks using Linux".
It's almost an insult....isn't it?
</rant> - oldhick, on 01/21/2009, -3/+16It always depends on you hardware.
- inactive, on 01/21/2009, -0/+13@yurim: the problem comes when there aren't any drivers on the Linux platform. Not as common as it was a few years back but still you can find a lot of cases. Lucky me my hardware always works flawlessly on linux :)
- ladyattis, on 01/21/2009, -2/+15A pretty honest article. Dugg.
- brunovecchi, on 01/21/2009, -3/+15It amazes me how what I consider to be one of Linux's strongest points - software installation - came out in the review as a disappointment to the author. His mistake was expecting that installing software would be like in windows. I am really shocked by the lack of effort and research that these journalists put in their work.
- mbm1980, on 01/21/2009, -0/+12Then stay with Windows.
People should just use what they want, it's okay to have a choice. - mdude85, on 01/21/2009, -8/+20Perhaps he figured that "basic research" shouldn't really be necessary to perform fairly rudimentary computing tasks such as installing software.
- DBeta, on 01/21/2009, -2/+14Actually, I find them a wonderful case study of how a new person views Linux. 5 minutes with me and the whole update issue wouldn't have been one, but it is a good example of how these things can be a problem for someone new. Food for thought for the developers of desktop distros.
- hamobu, on 01/21/2009, -2/+14Also, in two weeks of using Ubuntu, the guy did not learn how to use synaptic to install apps.
- EnderTheThird, on 01/21/2009, -0/+11You have to look at it a bit more objectively. Updating and installing software is quite simple in modern Linux distros with tools like apt or Synaptic. But if you stick a Linux user on Windows, he will have that very same trouble with such a "fairly rudimentary" task...
"Wait, I just want to install a new media player, why am I being asked if I want to upgrade to a $30 version or include some toolbar for my browser????"
The author was used to Windows' way of installing software, and assumed that because Linux does it differently that it was more difficult. Being used to one way is fine, but that should have been acknowledged in his article. Also, I prefer any of the extra work it might take to add the odd program in Linux as opposed to loading my computer with spyware and useless toolbars and add-ons. - waspbr, on 01/21/2009, -0/+10If you don't want to hear about linux just adjust your digg settings now to display any linux related news, instead of trolling around.
- BadAsh71, on 01/21/2009, -0/+11He used a third part installer app and blames Ubuntu?
Crazy
While I primarily work in Windows, I have tried every flavor of Linux out there and Ubuntu is the one I keep coming back to. Their installer is great and the only time I ever had a problem was when I hooked up my Test Box to an LCD TV that it didn't recognize.
Other than that, the only major complaints I've ever heard about Ubuntu was with Wireless Cards but that isn't necessarily Ubuntu's fault. There have been a lot of changes to Debian Core and HAL in regards to Wireless Cards in the past year or so.
With that in mind, I wouldn't go blaming Ubuntu for that.
Still, I'm glad to see Windows users are actually trying any flavor of Linux.
In the future though, I would recommend such people to seek out Community Forums to help themselves with support problems.
Ubuntu has pretty much THE BEST in terms of Community Support Forums.
That just my $0.02... or more like $1.22 :) - kalvinb, on 01/21/2009, -3/+14It's not Linux, it's Ubuntu.
Ubuntu is doing a pretty good job of making Linux as easy to install and use as Windows but they still have a ways to go.
Some people may not mind using a command prompt to get things done but most people want a simple GUI. It shouldn't be easier to install a piece of Open Source software on Windows than it is on Linux. The experience should be identical. Otherwise why would I install Linux just to use the same software that I can use on Windows? - mook2, on 01/21/2009, -1/+11So if there's been all this whining before why is the Linux community not listening? One of my gripes with linux is any time I have a question for someone who I know uses Linux I get this "you're not techy enough for linux" response. I like linux but it does need some more UX growth.
- Hermmunster, on 01/21/2009, -0/+10As I read your comment I couldn't help but think back to 15 years ago when we had Windows beginning its upswing in popularity. Prior to that most everyone used DOS and issued commands at a prompt.
I was thinking about all the tech journals I read every month and all the reviews about how this or that worked, how one had to work this way or that to get around a problem, or how this or that hardware didn't work, and about all the tips sections in the magazines about how to get software to install or a piece of hardware to work at all (or even properly).
Most have no idea how bad it was, how much work we had to do to keep those computers from bombing out and failing to work, how hard it was to ensure that those people we supported understood how to do regular saves, how to make multiple copies, how to copy to another device, etc. It's weird now that I think back at how such a huge problem it was that we had back then. That isn't to say that we don't have it today, but it seems pretty funny that comments in digg.com and even magazine review forget what we went through back then.
Linux today is massively more capable than any OS we had back then and the problems of that day are almost completely gone under Linux, at least they are as gone as they are for Windows XP, Vista, Win7, Win2K, Mac OSX.
What kept coming to the forefront of my thoughts were that with all this superb software, with a free OS, with all these tools, with all the help available, with all the interoperability, with all the goodies we use every day, that the complaints seem to be centered on issues that really mean nothing. I say they mean nothing because most users won't set up their own network, most won't set up their own wireless, most won't concern themselves with which version of Open Office is used--and especially the hordes that use Windows, they don't do this themselves either.
Interesting how people react to these things and its wonderful that other products are getting attention. - BoneheadFarker, on 01/21/2009, -3/+13inability to work with Word markup - If you really want, you can also install Wine and Office. That's if Word markups are really that important to you, which in most cases they're probably not.
problems with connecting to Vista machines - I have problems connecting to Vista machines with XP. Vista doesn't seem to play well with anything. But if you research it, you can find a way. Samba isn't that difficult to setup in Ubuntu.
difficulty in installing and updating software - The package manager in Ubuntu isn't that hard to use. Sure, you may need to research what software to use, but once you select it and click install, everything is done for you. Firefox will even automatically install plugins like Flash. Nothing is that simple in Windows, except for maybe the Firefox plugin thing. And even if you have to compile from source, which is rare to never, usually the instructions are included. Do some research. As for Windows Update, he tries to come off as if he actually reads and understands all the packages it downloads.
The other problems he has is that he doesn't like the command like, doesn't know how to reboot properly, and obviously doesn't know how to research anything. If you're unable or unwilling to put any effort into researching how to use your software, stick to Windows and call a geek to come fix it when you break it. - enzomedici, on 01/21/2009, -1/+10
The Linux community & open source in general definitely needs to do some improving. I've been using Unix for over 20 years and Linux since Slackware 1.0. and I still run into ***** that I consider completely ridiculous....although I admit things are slowly getting there in the UI.
There are way too many distributions which will confuse the hell out of any newbie. Installing & updating are still messy. A recent example is that under Fedora 10 I needed to install termcap and libtermcap to install some third party software, but you can't find these in the repositories at all.
The whole SourceForge website where much of the open source software seems to be is the biggest piece of ***** I've ever seen since about.com or expertexchange.com. - techdever, on 01/21/2009, -3/+12"Blue Screen of Death [...]-- something I certainly can't say about Windows XP." - he should try Vista 64 sp1
"Ubuntu's biggest Achilles heel is software installation and updating. Installing some software was simple, but installing others was so baffling as to be nearly incomprehensible. The same holds true for updates;"
- wtf... how hard can it be to use synaptic package manager - feignNU, on 01/21/2009, -0/+9Dugg both yrimxpxman and DBeta for giving great answers.
Anyone who seriously wants to play around with Linux, you seriously need to do yourself the favor of reading up on the package management tools that come with whatever distro you pick. It's going to make a lot of things infinitely more clear to you. There's no defensible reason to expect to be able to figure it out immediately without reading some kind of documentation, so give up this idea that everything "just works" and take the time to read a little. I promise, you will be glad you did. - compgeek, on 01/21/2009, -1/+10very open minded article and shows the pains associated with being a new linux user. It shows both pros and cons of the OS and doesn't pander one way or the other.
dugg - kolop1, on 01/21/2009, -12/+20I hate these stupid I tried whatever O/S for a few weeks articles making there way to the front page on digg. Who cares.
- waspbr, on 01/21/2009, -0/+8I wouldn't go as far a synaptic but I am really baffled that he never used the add/remove menu.
- ColBuendia71, on 01/21/2009, -0/+8@mdude85 The Windows method of installing software is "fairly rudimentary" because that's what a Windows user is accustomed to. Ubuntu's screamingly obvious "Add/Remove software" menu option would probably be more help to a brand new computer user.
- BoneheadFarker, on 01/21/2009, -0/+8@JQP123
I work in support, at a level where the people calling me should be very technical and knowledgible. I just spent the last 4 hours carefully explaining to someone that they instructions that I sent them are the instructions they asked for, and when that didn't work I highlighted the exact instructions I had sent them. Then they asked where the instructions were again. So pardon me if I get a little upset when people absolutely refuse to put any effort into fixing their own problems.
And I didn't know exactly what to look for. All I did was type "Kill package manager, ubuntu" into google and click the first link. It told me exactly what was needed. Besides, do you think I just instantly knew all this when I first started? No...I sat down and researched it until I learned. Funny enough, that's exactly what I did to learn Windows as well as I do. But that's the difference here...people know Windows because it's been out for so long and many people grew up with it or learned it when they first started using a computer, so it's now familiar. They don't remember all the problems they had when they first learned Windows. Now that they want to learn something new, but they have trouble letting go of what they already know. They just expect it to be the same as Windows. Well I'm very sorry, but it's not. You actually need to put some effort into it. If you're unwilling to do that, then don't try. Also don't bother buying a Mac, because OSX isn't like Windows either... - Hermmunster, on 01/21/2009, -0/+8I have installed Ubuntu many many times over the past 2.5 years and no, they haven't been flawless, some have been down right difficult. I have also done an even greater number of Windows installs and some of those have been just as difficult and some even more difficult.
Ubuntu does have issues and I'm actually happy that he didn't get nailed on the Wireless thing or he'd have had a lot more bad to say.
His problem wasn't that Linux had any failing. It does, don't get me wrong. Windows does too. His failing was that he was trying to use Ubuntu as if it were Windows and not Ubuntu/Linux. Linux is an OS that stands on its own merits (or fails), but when you do a test install to see if you can live with it over a period of time, stop thinking it is a clone of Windows. That's an insult to many and completely inaccurate assumption. - hazello, on 01/21/2009, -6/+14Difficulty in installing and updating software? What a joke.
Installing software in Windows is : find a file, download it form who knows where, click, click, click, click, click...
In Ubuntu: aptitude install <filename> and it automatically does everything for you. - djbon2112, on 01/21/2009, -0/+8Exactly... I fail to see how anything is easier than installing software in Ubuntu. Also, the updates thing is a little stupid. It's been out for 6 months (he said during writing that 8.10 came out, so six months after 8.04's release), of course there's updates. Only Ubuntu updates a LOT, and most of them are transparent things. Just hit "install" and you're good.
- geoffp, on 01/21/2009, -0/+7CrazyZ: I know software developers that tell me Vista's file sharing is nightmarishly ridiculous. They're not incompetent.
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