What is Digg?412 Comments
- elvenrunelord, on 06/13/2008, -15/+218You know if those pcs are like you claim then the teachers are idiots. The better question to ask is why do we still have teachers in the classroom who are not technically savvy enough to keep their pcs in running order. I remember back in junior high school when I was accused of hacking the schools computers and pretty much blamed for it because in the principle's own words " Your the student in the school who would know how to do this type of damage." In the end the pc's were found to be messed up by an officer worker after it happened again several months later when I was forbidden computer access at the time. At that point the principle came and apologized and asked me if I could fix the damage....I pretty much told him to kiss my ass....go pay a professional.
- weizbox, on 06/13/2008, -15/+107Linux for the most part. I don't want my tax dollars being spent on Microsoft software unless its a class specially aimed at learning Microsoft(which is quite valid as most of the world uses Windows). No need to run Windows on the library comps or for word processing, etc though, and I think that makes up the majority of computers being used in schools. Keep it free when the purpose isn't to learn something you pay for.
- bittermang, on 06/13/2008, -12/+94Both? And Mac? Why does there have to be exclusivity?
The point of a class is to learn, and part of learning about the platform is history and application. Why do things today work the way they do based on the way we used to do things and where things are going. We're not having this conversation about our math classes, should our students learn Algebra or Trigonometry? We're not having this conversation in the history classes, Colonial America or Babylonia? So why must we have the conversation in the computer lab?
The curriculum in most computer classes I have taken is criminally behind the curve. They basically teach you that when you type stuff in Word, it makes a letter and that Excel can do math. Nothing about the raw basics people need: What is a file? What is a folder? What is the difference between a "Hard Drive" or "RAM" and why are they both often referred to as memory despite being completely different? How are files kept inside of the hard drive? Understanding a directory tree. The Internet and why you should not try to open every file you download from it. Just this basic knowledge would be worlds greater than the courses I have experienced. It would stop people from believing that if they deleted a shortcut or an alias that the entire program is gone. It would keep people from telling me that they need to bring their monitor in to the shop because it got a virus.
And best of all, the knowledge is platform independent. It gives you the basic skills you need to tackle the differences between Unix, and Windows. It gives you the confidence to want to learn more about this machine on the desk. It does not indoctrinate you in to believing that you need a copy of Microsoft Word.
Part of the problem is the schools themselves are inept with the technology they're given. Just the other day the community college was selling their old Pentium 4 800mhz machines because they had just gotten new hardware. $35 a tower. $35? For a machine that is still good, can still run basic office applications, could have Linux installed on and become a *nix learning environment. They don't even know what they have, and are being careless with their assets. Then in five years when the next batch of computer upgrades happens they'll sell those machines for $35 or complain that they have no money in the budget for computer upgrades.
The answer for both groups; the students, and the institution which teaches them, is there needs to be more education about computers across the board. Picking and choosing what we learn or what platform we learn about is detrimental to the entire process. - Kingoftherings, on 06/13/2008, -0/+63I had a teacher that taught Photoshop and HTML, and she constantly told us how she didn't know any of it.
The school has really sucky technology courses, the most advanced thing you can do is Javascript, and thats just a small unit in a larger class. I'd really like to have done some C++ programming or something other than making Powerpoints, Excel spreadsheets, Photoshop and HTML. - Callik, on 06/14/2008, -2/+54Either OS is fine as long as
a) you have teachers who can actually use the thing (ie not questioning why it "did that" every 2 minutes)
b) you teach more than how to use an office suite, or at the very least teach it well - rooneyet, on 06/13/2008, -1/+45Amen to that. Computer classes in high school were not computer classes but rather typing. The worst part is that my adviser found out from my parents that I liked computers and so any class that one ever had to touch a PC in, it was "You like computers you'll like that class."
I wish we have a CS class in High School. - Koush, on 06/13/2008, -9/+50The problem just seems to be a crappy admin rather then a crappy OS.
- 3242130193, on 06/14/2008, -5/+36Linux, just cause it's available to everybody. The same goes for OpenOffice and pretty much any free software. Bringing kids up on MS software isn't very useful for everyone cause not everyone can obtain it easily. Why marginalize them? FOSS is far more available and easy to obtain. Bring everyone up on Linux to even the playing field.
Besides, Linux/UNIX was SPECIFICALLY MADE to be a multi-user environment. It's so much easier to break a computer running Windows, but try doing it on UNIX without root privileges? Not as easy I think. - thedez, on 06/14/2008, -0/+28I vote Commodore 64
- snapcase, on 06/14/2008, -1/+29The real blame does indeed rest with the teachers and any tech staff that may be employed at these schools.
For a good example I have some personal experience with this. When I was in High School I took a Cisco class. First off the class was a joke and the teacher literally gave us all the answers to every test. But more importantly I found out the fun way that the teacher and tech support didn't know jack. One Friday during class, I was bored and decided to right click on the Nvidia control panel in the system tray and set the screen rotation to 180 degrees. I figured someone would probably take a few minutes getting it back to normal if anything. I came in on Monday, to find that my entire computer was missing. The teacher immediately called me over to explain what happened. I told him and he informed me that neither he nor the tech support could figure out what was wrong and they had to actually Reformat the HDD! When he realized how stupid they were he let me off with a warning and noted that with their original assumption that I took some malicious action they were contemplating kicking me out of the class. It took about a week for them to finish "fixing" the computer and have it hauled back up to the computer lab.
If they hired people with at least a shred of competence then there wouldn't be much problem with viruses and barely operable computers. - Zaneris, on 06/14/2008, -12/+35As much as I love Linux, from an education standpoint, I'd have to say whatever they'd most likely be using later on in life, and/or at home.
So, for now... Windows, hopefully Linux down the road though.
p.s. It should be mandatory to at least give an overview of alternative operating systems though. - wonderchemist, on 06/14/2008, -0/+22Waiting for you when you pass 5th grade English.
- Skwerl, on 06/14/2008, -0/+22Your idea is great, but in California, contractually teachers are not allowed to work on their own computers. My mother is a high school computer teacher, and she doesn't even have the ability to adjust the time on the clock, let alone write access to the disk.
It's not the teachers that are the problem, it's union contracts that keep incompetent sysadmins working long after they should have been fired, do you really think it's the teachers job to secure the computer from outside attacks? - rolf, on 06/14/2008, -1/+22Yeah, and I won't know how to use IE because I'm only used to Firefox.
And I won't have a clue in MS Office, because I only use OpenOffice.
And the MS start button will really confuse me when I'm used to KDE/Gnome.
Anymore nonsense? - BlueSkyfish, on 06/13/2008, -0/+20It's not as simple as that. Public schools aren't free to make that decision, its up to the school district. Companies like Microsoft (and in some cases Apple) pay the school district for exclusivity. Most districts need the money badly so they take it, then leave the individual schools to pay for it. Most of the people making decisions in the district are either too corrupt or too incompetent to see the benefit of open source technology.
- Kingoftherings, on 06/13/2008, -1/+20Where do you think more Linux users will come from?
- Spuy767, on 06/14/2008, -0/+18A friend of mine worked Sys admin for Barrow County Schools, he knew far less than I did and they paid him 22k a year. At that price, you're not going to get very qualified people to run your networks.
- ROW3BO4T, on 06/14/2008, -4/+22Think how much money would be saved by using Linux and Open Office. The big payoff however would come in the next 5 to 10 years when those kids grow up being comfortable with Linux. It could be the tipping point to bring Linux into the mainstream and to a much larger market share.
- jkroge, on 06/14/2008, -2/+20It would be great if Linux was used in the classroom, but it still does not fix the problem of finding and paying a good system administrator to maintain the computers. Schools that use Windows are having problems because the teachers and staff don't know how to use the technology. If they don't know how to use a Windows system, they won't know how to use a Linux system either.
- mithrasinvictus, on 06/14/2008, -0/+18Yes, just look at the people that were taught Wordperfect, Lotus 1-2-3 ,DBase III and MS-dos wield those skills like magicians in todays workplace.
People should not be taught how to operate a specific interface because you can count on it being outdated soon, they should learn the basics of the type of application. Intuitiveness and a clear design pattern are more important than current market penetration. - inactive, on 06/14/2008, -4/+21Lets work on teaching them math, science, history and so on. You dont need a PC to learn.
- Rikkochet, on 06/14/2008, -1/+17You'd be terrified to know how little teachers know about all the rest of the subjects.
/friend and acquaintance of at least 4 public school teachers off the top of my head... - techkwandos, on 06/14/2008, -2/+18Who went into the rubbish pile and digg up a 2002 article? Comon you people.
- RogerStrong, on 06/14/2008, -2/+17My high school computer class started us off with a bit of computer theory: Describe the purpose of the accumulator, stack, registers, IO bus, data bus, etc.
Then we spent a few weeks working with punch cards.
Then we did some programming on the Commodore 8032s and Fat 40's - 80 column, 32K business versions of the Commodore Pet
Half-way through second term we got this brand new machine with an awe-inspireing 128K of RAM, called an IBM PC.
I immediately bought a proto-board and started building a 128K card for my Apple ][+ clone. - crestfall, on 06/14/2008, -1/+16I wrote a paper on this last semester. If anyone's interested, I'd like feedback.
http://ubuntuforums.org/showthread.php?t=811390 - Audacitor, on 06/14/2008, -0/+14Normally I would rave about how awesome Macs are, and I truly do think that OS X is the best for an educational environment, but Macs are just too pricey, even the minis. Linux, probably Edubuntu, is the best way to go.
- definedbywords, on 06/14/2008, -3/+17"We're seeing the stand alone desktop PC as a colossal failure in schools." says Paul Nelson, Technology Director for the Riverdale School District in Portland, Oregon. "After several years of installing PCs in classrooms, it is evident that schools do not have the staffing to support them and keep them running. Often infected with viruses and subjected to student abuse, these systems can quickly turn into a useless but expensive pile of junk in the back of the classroom."
If they can't keep their Windows machines working, how would they be expected to keep the Linux ones working?
Infected with viruses? GET ANTI-VIRUS! duh
I work in a K-8 school district and our Windows computers run great. No viruses, no spyware. It's called hiring people who know what they are doing. We also have Macs and although none of the student computers have Linux, there are a few computers in the building with Linux on them. - inactive, on 06/14/2008, -4/+18You sound like a corporate drone with a necktie... the point is that our schools will save hundreds of millions US $ by showing a a middle finger to Microsoft ... they should go with Linux in a heartbeat... learn how to use OpenOffice, and you know already how to use MS Word when needed. I'm running Windows and Linux on my machines, but every other software I have is from open source community.
- TheLoneWolf071, on 06/13/2008, -6/+19Linux would be great because it's basically an "All-inclusive" Package, and what ever you need you can just get for free and use. Firewall solutions, filtering, Office, Art, programming, etc.
Windows would be great because it's used everywhere else and you can't go 10 feet without seeing it. All the popular and mainstream apps will run on it, and hardware is rarely an issue.
Really, it's up to the Director of Tech for the school and what they feels the schools needs are. Personally I'd go with linux if i had to choose. - franksmith, on 06/14/2008, -6/+18I love this....
"and subjected to student abuse"
Like the Linux boxes will NOT be abused???
ROFL - spyd3rweb, on 06/14/2008, -3/+15Teaching kids to use open source software would no go well with the government overlords and their big business friends.
- inactive, on 06/14/2008, -1/+12It doesn't matter what platform you go with. If the IT staff are idiots, anything will get hacked. I can set up a Linux OR Microsoft network where the users will only see what I want them to during the hours I want them to, and even can not log on unless they are scheduled to. It takes a competent It staff to run ANY network no matter WHERE it is deployed. Ever hear of root? Ever hear of Group Policy? Access lists? Encryption? Assigned proxies? Web filters? Squid, baby!
- RSS14, on 06/14/2008, -0/+10Although I prefer Windows, I think Linux should be used in public schools. This would allow the money which would have been spent on buying the operation system to a better cause, such as paying for teachers and other school related things.
- SuperMoses, on 06/14/2008, -1/+11It's also not cheap to get all OS's (unless it's Linux)
- localzuk, on 06/14/2008, -0/+9Schools should be teaching transferable skills, not specifics. Teach how to word process, not how to use Word. Teach how to edit images, not how to use Photoshop. You don't go into a maths lesson and learn how to use money. You go in there and learn the concepts surrounding maths, numbers etc... Why should IT be specific?
- justinforeman, on 05/02/2009, -3/+12It's all about the Apple ][c
Oregon Trail FTW! :) - 0xception, on 06/14/2008, -0/+9I was lucky enough to be among the first year of students who got to enroll in a computer science classes at our high school... the first class was coding in VB but was an introduction to programming and computer science basics). The second class was programming in C++ and got further into data structures and basic algorithms... granted it was high school so nothing major but the second class was similar to CS1 in college.
however you had to be in advanced math to take the CS courses... Our school would have rocked if they had enough people enrolled to offer a Cisco networking class. but oh well.. Iowa's education system is fairly good. well that is it was, not so sure now w/ no child left behind in full force. - WTFppl, on 06/14/2008, -3/+12I've been playing around with Debian, it has 54 languages to learn, math and advanced mathematics, science links for study information, among a multitude of other things Debian will help you learn. I'd have to say, the future of studies with Linux looks bright. Looking at the adaption level that MS has forgot, I would believe MS has no care to stimulate the learning curve!
- Rabbittt, on 06/14/2008, -0/+8Your arguments are strong enough that you don't need all the bias you used to make your point.. Cut out the bias and I think you have a very intelligent and well thought out paper..
- Rabbittt, on 06/14/2008, -0/+8Not paying for Microsoft software would free up an enormous amount of cash, a small percentage of which could be used to attract highly skilled admins..
- PabloMac, on 06/14/2008, -1/+9Words of wisdom from a highly educated individual. Thanks for sharing!
- PabloMac, on 06/14/2008, -2/+10Nope.
- DangerDaz, on 06/14/2008, -1/+8So you would rather have some teenager managing the school network than a professional who went through years of training? That can only end well.
- outlaw686, on 06/14/2008, -2/+9Realize fanboys are just digging him down because he said mac's were "For people who like pretty things, even price" while disregarding the rest of his arguments which were legitimate. Dugg up
- srg13, on 06/14/2008, -0/+7"but one student doing something like 'rm -rf /' will suck much more and happen more frequently"
Um, why would the students accounts be able to use sudo? At most they could just erase their home directory... - lx45803, on 06/14/2008, -0/+7you don't NEED one, but they can sure help. The situation is a lot clearer from where we stand than where you do, assuming you're not a student because you said 'them'.
- IggyPop, on 06/14/2008, -3/+10How about both? and macs. Give them the chance to learn on all 3 of the major os'.
- myuu, on 06/14/2008, -0/+7I started an effort to distribute secondhand Linux machines to families and this is my boilerplate answer: "Teaching specifics is wasteful for children, what is important is developing an intuition towards computers. The ability to learn to learn and not be afraid, diversity in operating systems promotes that,"
Essentially, what they will be using is far beyond what they are learning now. We should be teaching are the fundamentals and a passion for technology. - sk11, on 06/14/2008, -2/+9"should always be microsoft"
What makes you think microsoft will always dominate? The next big player might be google or IBM (again). We may laugh at today's broadband speeds in 10 years time, when internet based software might become more common. Ten years is a long time in computing, don't you remember when nearly everyone had an Amiga? - teamcoltra, on 06/14/2008, -0/+6Too bad the internet will be gone in 2012 ;)
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