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- msikma, on 10/11/2007, -3/+73You forgot IBM, perhaps the most important one of all. They have a patent portfolio that dwarfs Microsoft's. They honestly don't want to start a patent war--if only because of what might happen when IBM decides to retaliate. There are loads of other reasons why they don't, but this is an important one.
- playerx, on 10/11/2007, -18/+74I could care less about microsoft's patent stuff.
Actually I'm waiting for them to start war on open source, then we'll see microsoft as a sinking ship.
Why? Well, Google owns patents, Sun owns patents, Sony owns patents. These people together own many patents that could very well mean the end of the profit in their products when they are obliged to pay per each copy of windows sold.
These companies are friends of open source and microsoft is more scared of them than we can ever be of microsoft. - smeagel, on 10/11/2007, -3/+47@GawtMilk...that's probably the dumbest thing ever written on Digg. And I've read a lot of dumb stuff. What's Microsoft going to do to Google? Who cares if it controls 94% of desktops, if they did anything to block Google it's called ANTI-COMPETITIVE MONOPOLISTIC behavior. They've already been slapped...hard..for it in the EU. If they did anything to Google, the US Gov't would finally bring M$ft down, like they've attempted to do in the past. But, Microsoft, unlike you, isn't that stupid.
- Panna, on 10/11/2007, -4/+45@GawtMilk
Yahoo has a search engine? - markr, on 10/11/2007, -3/+36The only people who'll make money or benefit are the lawyers
- capitocapito, on 10/11/2007, -6/+35GawtMilk,
I'm not convinced that Microsoft Windows users could ever be denied the notion of "Google." - Phocion55, on 10/11/2007, -6/+32And one reason is because Linux users ARE Microsoft customers and vice versa. Home and enterprise.
Microsoft knows that if they ever went through with this, there would be A LOT of friendly fire..........and a lot of pissed off people and companies. - TheRealToma, on 10/11/2007, -13/+38Afraid?
***** you, Microsoft.
Take you FUD and stick it. Im using Linux, Im helping to make Linux, and there not a god damn thing you can do about it. - markr, on 10/11/2007, -8/+32but 50% of the digg population care
(and 25% of statistics are made up)... - linuxwarz, on 10/11/2007, -1/+23And what do you think most of the net, including digg, uses to run services?
- Homunculiheaded, on 10/11/2007, -7/+27TippyTop, You do know that MS real beef isn't with home desktop linux users right? Their fud isn't so you go "OMG I'd better not install ubuntu". What they're really concerned with is the server market, were the numbers are much closer to 50/50. There FUD is aimed at business management who they hope will go "Hmm... did you read about that potential lawsuit against linux, maybe we are better of going with Server 2003 so we won't have to worry about this."
MS is much more concerned that about half the web is running on open source linux machines than that beryl totaly pwnz aero (which for the record, as a linux home user, i don't really think is the case).
The point being that a lot more than 1% of people care. - rulus, on 10/11/2007, -3/+23http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Linux
- Wacer, on 10/11/2007, -5/+23@slickto "linux people are very pissy people and they have a " my way or the high way " attitude"
I been a heavy Linux user and contributer for over 10 years. Most Linux people are not `pissy` people, they're just not sheep. They have the ability to think for themselves. I think your confused or one just another one of the sheep. - Crimsoneer, on 10/11/2007, -6/+24@mindxuf
Did you just make a macho comment....about windows?
I'm t3h confused... - rclay, on 10/11/2007, -9/+26if Microsoft tries to take out Linux they may be met with the same results as when the MPAA tried to suppress the HD-DVD key.
- slickto, on 10/11/2007, -4/+20This is a non-issue. Microsoft will not pursue litigation against Linux, or open-source software. No war, no sinking ships. And, by the way, they would never have gone after "Linux Users" anyway, they would have been more interested in large corporations using Linux. Pure FUD on a slow news day.
- hmmmok, on 10/11/2007, -0/+16No one will really be free until nerd persecution ends.
- locnguyen, on 10/11/2007, -2/+15Than block it? Geez.
- scabbers, on 10/11/2007, -2/+14 Lambda Lambda Lambda, is our fraternity;
We are her royal subjects, and she is our queen bee.
We have no groups excluded, we don't discriminate;
We just ask that you keep your G-P-A at 3.8 - Phocion55, on 10/11/2007, -6/+18Heh. This is what cracks me up.
TippyTop, so then Microsoft DOESN'T see Linux as a threat?
Care to elaborate on why they're wasting their time doing this then?
This should be good..... - potterboy, on 10/11/2007, -6/+18Why digg him down? He's right! Any attempt to stop something makes it more popular.
- CoolWind, on 10/11/2007, -3/+14Don't you love news stories CREATED out of thin air by Digg users with the sole intention of getting the Digg community riled up?
- r00tus3r, on 10/11/2007, -4/+14You sir are incorrect. They said they wouldn't sue linux users. There is a HUGE difference between that, and what you have just said. Get your facts straight!
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -9/+18Microsoft already said they would NOT take Linux users to court. So, uhh, thanks for being unafraid of Microsoft taking you to court...?
- regeya, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7Look, Steve Ballmer has said repeatedly that "every Linux customer basically has an undisclosed balance-sheet liability." Now, Steve Ballmer is the current Microsoft CEO, so I put a LOT more weight behind what he says vs. what any other MS representative says. And in the last few years, they've not exactly had a clean track record in the honesty department.
So I guess what I'm saying is that when I hear an underling saying that they're not going to SUE, I'm just expecting to find a past-due invoice, or an RIAA-style "pay us thousand$ in protection money or we'll sue" notice from Microsoft in my mailbox any day now. - BlackAdderIII, on 10/11/2007, -4/+11"""Linux users are beginning to piss me off as much as mac users with their arrogance... Linux users unafraid? Maybe thats because they know Microsoft obviously won't waste time suing anyone over opensourse. But if Microsoft decided to anyway I guarentee the "linux users" would back down and would be very afraid. Don't confuse logic with fearlessness..."""
Blah blah blah.
Microsoft's prone to silly FUDslinging, and anyone sane should be unafraid of them launching patent litigation against users, a cursory examination of the patent landscape should make that clear to them.
Suing software users? Let them bring it on if they can. - BlackAdderIII, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8@brufleth
Poor attempt to relate - people on geek sites aren't very likely to use "myspace", as it's mostly for ***** dunces. - Wacer, on 10/11/2007, -3/+10@TippyTop "1% of the computer-using population even cares."
If only 1% of the computer using population even cared, Microsoft would not be engaging in these tactics. - WoollyMittens, on 10/11/2007, -2/+9I hope Microsoft doesn't forget that the US is just about the only country with software patents. I personaly don't care if the US shoots itsself in the foot over linux.
- arbulus, on 10/11/2007, -0/+7The problem you get into with all of this patent and IP mess is that everyone owns something. Someone owns the patent on double clicking, someone owns the patent on putting an "X" in the of a window to close it, and so on. But in this age, with computer technology so ubiquitous, patent lawsuits are like nuclear weapons: everyone has them, and if any one person uses them, everyone will use them, and we all die. To bring the analogy back down, if MS starts calling out a list of patent infringements, then Apple will do so, then Sun will do so, then Cisco will do so, and everyone will start calling everyone else out on everything, and then we all lose, because computer technology will become this locked down, segregated mess, where MS holds most of the cards, Apple has the rest, and then no one else can do anything. Everyone will suffer.
- scot524, on 10/11/2007, -1/+8Buried as old news. Also, I think this was just a scare tactic on behalf of MS. Actually, enforcing these rights would involve litigation with some of their big customers. I am no Harvard MBA, but suing your customers tends to steer them away from your products.
- daftman, on 10/11/2007, -0/+6@infowarmachine
People use linux because they want to
We don't shove it down their throat and paint nice ***** to get them to use it.
It's something we call choice. - r00tus3r, on 10/11/2007, -11/+16Can't we all just get along? I really don't like where this is heading at all. In the end, it's the technology and humanity that will suffer.
- Wacer, on 10/11/2007, -2/+6Youtube.com uses MySQL.
Went to what link? Your comment is nonsense. - sailor, on 10/11/2007, -3/+7It is likely that Microsoft is blowing smoke in a weak attempt to stop corporate customers from adopting linux.
As far as patents are concerned, I bet that Microsoft is violating far more patents than anyone.
MS tested the waters with their involvement in the SCO lawsuit...even though they may have gained from the FUD, I don't think they could effectively do something like that again.
MS is obviously feeling the pressure of open source and linux. It is said "You can discover what your enemy fears most by observing the means he uses to frighten you". I think that is right on the money.
as for the clueless win fanboys:
skyscape you are a dumbass...switching to a secure and stable OS is not running away, it is upgrading.
GawtMilk you are a ignorant dumbass...do you think that MS owns the interner? Regardless of the browser or OS you use Google will be on the web, so what the hell is your point? - Quix, on 10/11/2007, -9/+13"Err, didn't Microsoft say they won't be suing Linux users?" - estvir
Come on estvir, enough with the pro-Microsoft phony naivete. Microsoft doesn't *need* to sue Linux users if they can destroy/cripple the platform as a whole. Of course they're not going after the end users - they're going after the developers and the providers. If there's no Open Office, there are no Open Office users to sue. Duh.
But you fully realize that - you're just spinning for your benevolent dictator Microsoft. Yet again. - BlackAdderIII, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5Then why didn't you use the time to find out what it is, or block it, or piss off instead of posting that comment?
- Topher06, on 10/11/2007, -2/+5Wow, and give Microsoft fodder for going after Apple, Linux, and every other competitor for basically doing the same thing. Have you seen ANY Apple advertising?
- jm9206755, on 10/11/2007, -3/+6No one went to Linux because we were scared of MS. We just chose a better OS for our needs.
- cantormath, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3M$ can bring it......
- regeya, on 10/11/2007, -1/+4@Smeagel:
Considering that Google represents a HUGE number of Linux installations, it's not all that dumb. Your response was, though. Not sure why the ratings are as they are; I guess it's the nonexistent MS fanboys. ;-)
Seriously, IF Microsoft was able to go ANYWHERE with this case, and IF they chose to go after Google (someting they've failed to accomplish on an honest basis) it would at least be expensive for Google. - lengau, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3@brufleth -
"Linux distros are still not viable alternatives for most users and I'll claim that until Jane, Joe, and little Billy consumer can all get and use Linux as easily as Windows"
Well be quick about it. You only have a short amount of time! ( http://www.dell.com/ubuntu ) Oh wait. Your time is up. ( http://www.system76.com ) - Quix, on 10/11/2007, -5/+8"Benevolent dictator? You *are* aware of what that means, right?" - GawtMilk
By "benevolent dictator" I obviously mean from the perspective of you, estvir, and countless other Microsoft apologists on Digg who are not only fully planted under the iron heel of Microsoft, but are downright happy to be there.
Many Cubans love Castro too. Go figure. - zazzalicious, on 10/11/2007, -0/+3@arbulus: actually where IBM holds most of the cards...
- lengau, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2@brufleth (#c6751039)
"The various package management systems you refer to are NOT going to fix everything."
No, but no package management system will fix everything. Even having a virtual machine for each app won't fix everything.
"If you have a custom setup they will screw things up. [...] It isn't fun and the average consumer will not deal with it at all."
No, but most average consumer won't have a custom setup. Most people treat their consumers as appliances.
'Most of your other responses are simply "well why bother using that when there is this perfectly good Linux equivalent." '
Okay, then how would you suggest I use Amarok on Windows? Kino? K3b? Remember: No equivalents, and no custom setups that the average consumer couldn't do (such as Cygwin or CoLinux).
Obviously, it's not possible at the moment (and if the apps were closed source, it may never be possible without using something such as a reverse WINE.
My point is that there are different Apps for different platforms, and you can't expect them to work on all platforms. Also, I never claimed that it could run Windows programs, I just claimed that it is AS EASY to run as Windows. Imagine someone who has been using $NON_MS_OS for his whole life. Do you think that he should be able to apply all his knowledge directly to Windows? Of course not! Anyone who seriously believes that is Moronic. As soon as you change something, you have to re-learn that changed piece. He can most likely use most of his basic knowledge, but of course he can't use both. You can't even upgrade versions of $OS without having to re-learn some things (it's less bad with, let's say, up to annual releases [usually], but if you are just upgrading from Windows 95 to Vista now, only your basic knowledge will help you).
"[...] wine etc? Are you f'ing kidding me?"
I still stand behind Cedega and Crossover Office, because both of those are basically (for supported apps, which obviously aren't the new just-released-this-week apps) "What do you want to install?" "Okay, put in the CD and follow the installer" "Great. Now you can run the program."
"[...] and their performance usually blows anyway."
I'm too lazy to look for it, but there are some benchmarks that show that, on some games are actually faster under WINE/Cedega than under Windows [not all, but I've never seen performance at less than 90% of what Windows gives].
"Also, I've used the camera software built into Gnome and it sucked or just didn't work with several of the cameras I used with it (main stream cameras which had been on the market for over a year)."
I can't defend this, as I've never tried GNOME's camera software (I didn't have a digital camera when GNOME was my main desktop). However, I've never had Digikam have a problem with any cameras (before I bought my camera, I brought a few of my friends' cameras home [I tried Sony, Kodak, Canon, Nikon, HP, Olympus, Toshiba, Samsung and my ancient Polaroid {320x240 resolution, but it was one of Polaroid's earliest} that I dug up out of the depths of my closet]). ALL of them worked. Each and every one. Now you'll probably claim that I rigged it and all of my friends are Linux geeks so they only got Linux-compatible cameras, yada yada. But I didn't. The Nikon and Canon ones are owned by some friends of mine who are studying Photography. Some of them have Macs, but most use Windows. The HP is owned by a total Windows fanboy, who said to me when I asked him if I could test it that it wouldn't work with Linux (he was wrong). All of the USB ones worked immediately (they were detected as either PTP devices or as generic Disks, depending on what mode they were in [and what cameras they were - I think the Canons are only PTP devices]). The serial one (I think only the Polaroid was serial) had to be manually added in Digikam, but that was a much better experience than Polaroid's Windows software (I've lost the CD, otherwise I could tell you what it is and what version).
"[...] much like people still cling to iTunes (which I hate) to load music onto their ipods most people like using whatever crappy software came with their printers/cameras/scanners/etc instead of figuring out a whole new set of Linux tools."
Yes, but I said it's as easy to use, not that it's easier to switch to than it is to continue with Windows (although I will say that now with using OpenOffice vs. upgrading from MS Office < 2007 to Office 2007). In any case, that works both ways (and is stronger when the software you are moving from is better - that's why I _H_A_T_E_ having to use IE (I don't particularly like using newer versions [>5] of Netscape, but if it's that or IE, I'll take Netscape). I'd have a hard time moving to Windows or Mac on my primary machine because of (for example) Amarok (it'll be less of a problem after Amarok 2, but I can name a whole lot of other programs, too). Also, from what I've experienced, if the user who you're trying to get to switch trusts you, you can often get them to try the other programs (I'm in the process of switching one of my friends. I got him to try Firefox about a year and a half ago (he likes it), then I got him to use OpenOffice (he uninstalled MS Office on his own), and in about a year I'll be ready to bring him over to Linux (instead of upgrading to Vista).
"Your comment about debugging windows is asinine. I've had driver issues when building a new system and of course people can screw up installs pretty bad (usually if they have a teenage boy using the computer)."
I've had Windows Update's "very important" updates kill my drivers on my system, and my setup isn't exactly strange (Via motherboard, nVidia video, and a couple of PCI cards (1394 is one, a TV card is the other)
"Sure Linux can help safe guard against those issues but then it usually does that by being of relatively limited use."
Relatively limited use? How is that? By connecting to all of the drivers of a device to one user-mode interface? (normally - I know that there are exceptions, but they are normally either for good reasons or have been/are bing replaced) Or is there something else that I'm missing? Linux has the most hardware support of any OS I know (relatively little - even on the desktop - doesn't have a Linux driver these days).
"Linux is not an average consumer friendly OS."
Because it's different from Windows? In that case, a Nissan is not a consumer friendly car because it works differently from a Ford car.
"If you've convinced yourself that it is then congrats and I hope the sky is a pretty color in your world."
"Red sky at night is a Shepherd's delight. Red sky in the morning is a Shepherd's warning."
"For most people Linux is not what they want from a desktop OS when they sit down at home."
Most home users want a PC appliance. They don't want to have to have dozens of things running just so that is doesn't break. They want a Washing Machine computer (you don't have to do much to maintain a washing machine, do you?).
"In fact, many of the solutions you offer express the attitude that has slowed the move of Linux to a legit alternative."
I don't follow. Please explain. - jbelkin, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2I'll bet 90% of the patents are "obvious" ones like if you click, another window will open or like that other lawsuit, a CD-ROM with links to the internet is our patent ... the other 10%, I'll bet MS has been secretly copying code from their apps into Linux and now is crying foul ... they failed with SCO - MS would rather spend $100 million with lawyers and SCO scenarios than real R&D ...
- Waiting2awake, on 10/11/2007, -3/+5 Nope, it is the worthless OS that got me moving, the suits never bothered me.
- noddyxoi, on 10/11/2007, -4/+6I want them to sue microsoft for damages in business ! to get this thing over with.
- inactive, on 10/11/2007, -0/+2Its like the bee-human relationship, its more afraid of you than you are of it.
-and if it stings you, you kill it. :)
gnu/linux will win in the end! - xspinkickx, on 10/11/2007, -2/+4@skyscape
Ubuntu is based out of the UK, not Africa..... though the founder is South African........
@Topher06
I think many devs have said, many times tell us what we are infringing on and we will change the code, the problem is microsoft is not saying what linux is infringing on..... so yeah us linux users are open to the idea we maybe infringing on a patent, but we are willing to change the code if need be. -
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