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486 Comments
- nnagflar, on 02/26/2008, -9/+130I use both. I love Linux when I'm hating Windows, and I love Windows when I'm hating Linux.
- sundancekid503, on 02/26/2008, -7/+96IF you're going to use Windows, then let Windows be Windows. Trying to recreate the Linux experience inside of Windows will obviously result in a less than authentic experience.
- insllvn, on 02/26/2008, -14/+84Cool. Thanks for sharing your experience. When I had to troubleshoot Vista for a tech support job, I learned a little bit about it and how to get around. I never felt at home there, the way I do on my GNOME desktop. I used 95/98/200/XP before switching to Linux when I saw the Vista debacle on the horizon and I decided to give Linux a try. I have never wanted to go back. The ability to easily and thoroughly tweek everything really allows you to make your desktop YOUR desktop, if that makes sense (yeah I know KDE is even more customizable, but I am happier with GNOME). Package management is another thing I have come to love since switching from Windows. I can't imagine administering my computer and keeping it both loaded with functionality and simultaneously uncluttered without synaptic. It is a godsend not to have to hunt about online or in obtuse Win32 folders for things that should or shouldn't be there. Most of all, I laugh at how I used to view the command line, as this outdated and unnecessary relic. I now rely on it heavily (i have it mapped so I can launch it quite quickly) and don't know how I survived without it.
Just my 2 cents from the other side. - jtbndy, on 02/26/2008, -56/+123His GUI complaints are retarded. Couldn't map a shortcut key in 4 months? I did it in 4 seconds.
Backwards compatibility works fine for me.
Driver issues? With an OS that supports 10 times the amount of things Linux supports of course you're going to have to do a little bit of driver searching. Grow a brain, go to the product website, and download. Its not ***** brain surgery.
Digg me down, but this is just a typical Linux user review of Vista. - sekhui, on 02/26/2008, -36/+103the irony of a linux user complaining about drivers... it's like a delicious, moist breakfast muffin covered in cut up pieces of livejournal.
now digg me down. the power of linus compels you! - fstorino, on 02/26/2008, -2/+52Dual-boot: the solution to OS bipolarity.
- estvir, on 02/26/2008, -13/+55Wow, 4 months and that rubbish 'article' is all he could get out?
- wolferz, on 02/26/2008, -1/+42As some one who has taken issue with linux fanboyism countless times in the last few years I would like to thank you for sticking to linux's actual strengths instead of making crap up or misconstruing the facts. It's a real breath of fresh air to see something like that. I agree with you on all counts. I have to agree that I too enjoy the customizability of linux. The package managers I have used so far also, in many ways, simplify things by far over windows.
However, I do have two major issues and these are the core issues I have with many of the linux fanboy's claims. As a computer tech who deals with individual business owners and home computer users every day I have come to realize, though my clients are capable of learning computers, they don't want to. They hold the opinion, and I think a valid one, that computers exist to make their lives simpler. They exist to SIMPLIFY their day to day activities. I don't feel linux does that. I don't really think Windows does that but I've yet to see any one claim Linux is easier to learn than Windows. The console is fun and all, and I personally don't even use a file manager because I prefer to do file management from the console. However I also know that I CAN NOT expect the average user to learn commands. I also know that when they go to save files to a networked drive they will expect to be able to click file > save, then browse directly top the networked drive and save their files. Currently most programs use their own file open/save dialog and NONE of them recognize the way gnomes file manage mounts network drives. The alternative being to drop to the console and manually mount it to a folder in my home directory or use a gui app that might as well be using terminology from a Klingon disruptor manual, both of which requiring root privileges, and all of which is far beyond what a novice wants to learn.
It's little problems like that, all of which are individually trivial and easy to over come, but are so numerous and prevalent that by shear numbers alone they become a massive hindrance. I want linux to succeed. It may not seem like it sometimes but I really do. I like linux and enjoy my time playing around with it. I see potential to do really great things. I love it's flexibility. However, it is NOT ready to replace the OS on the desktops of novice users. I've said it before and I'll say it again: Linux needs a LOT of polish. The console SHOULD be an "outdated and unnecessary relic." User's should only need the console when preforming diagnostic work... like it is in Windows. Sure computer geeks, ourselves included, can have the choice to use the console, but there should never be a NEED to use it in the day to day activities of the average user. Things like that just need to be dealt with before a novice, given the opportunity to compare in an unbiased format, will ever be interested in using Linux rather than Windows.
It will take a commitment not only on the part of the linux kernel devs or the various distros, but also the devs of other programs. And that will take the linux and open source community in general acknowledging linux's flaws and demanding they be dealt with. - HugeAlReturns, on 02/26/2008, -30/+65Vista FTW: Wireless Support
Linux FTW: Everything else - carpespasm, on 02/26/2008, -5/+36Nothing.
Works for me. - smacksaw, on 02/26/2008, -7/+37http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/NdisWrapper
Works for me. - mykool, on 02/26/2008, -9/+34When I want something installed on linux Ubuntu I just go to add/remove put a check mark besdie what I want installed - take the check mark if I want uninstalled and it's done. In windows if I remember right it's - dubble click the icon - wait for the splash screen to turn off and then tell it yes I would like to install a program, then it has to go on the internet to d/ld the latest windows installer app, then it has to ask about 4 or 5 questions and then I have to agree to some amazingly one sided EULA.
I don't even want to get into what it takes to "completely" remove and uninstall an app in windows and what it does do to the registry when you do. - estvir, on 02/26/2008, -8/+33> I suspect half of you Vista fanboys on Digg are unwilling to accept criticism of Microsoft because it's a big successful American company, and no other reason.
Says the guy who think it's humanly impossible for someone to like Vista. Do you realise how utterly stupid and hypocritical you are?
http://www.windows-now.com/blogs/robert/archive/20 ...
http://blogs.zdnet.com/Bott/?p=382
For starters.. - insllvn, on 02/26/2008, -2/+25Ending unnecessary abbreviations for the win!
- dinostabOMG, on 02/26/2008, -0/+23EUAFTW!
- Jb611, on 02/26/2008, -9/+30For the love of god would people please stop using FTW all the time?
- armo, on 02/26/2008, -5/+25http://madwifi.org/
Works for me. - SuperSneaks, on 02/26/2008, -7/+27Want something installed on Linux sudo apt-get install ...
There, I fixed it for you. - pedepy, on 02/26/2008, -0/+19good example of why usability is extremely relative: after switching to linux after years of windows, it took me a few good weeks to start to feel comfortable around my computer .. and now after close to two years of linux use, I feel stuck & contrived in Windows.
Same with the famed easy to use OSX interface - I cant stand it, probably for the same reasons. - ThePet, on 02/26/2008, -15/+34I love how when ever anybody disagrees with someone on digg the word "retard" is used.
Try your shortcut key out for a week. You'll find that most of the time it fails.
And it wasn't a review of Vista, it was an attempt to share how a Linux user got comfortable in Windows. so :-P - chromerium, on 02/26/2008, -2/+21lol?
- thinman1189, on 02/26/2008, -23/+41Linux is not supposed to be like windows; windows is not supposed to be rational, it's just supposed to sell.
- kozie, on 02/26/2008, -1/+18Honesty on digg FTW.
- TheRealToma, on 02/26/2008, -5/+22Its also a nice simple double-click to install a virus too.
- mattmcm, on 02/26/2008, -1/+18I use Vista, and I have no problem with saying ***** Microsoft, ***** their closed standards and ***** Internet Explorer. I can use their OS without caring for them, as incredible as it may seem.
- pathy, on 02/26/2008, -4/+20Is this at ALL surprising?
He's been using Linux for 5 years, of course he's comfortable with it. He knows how to get everything to work, he knows all the little tricks it can do, and how to get it all working just the way he wants.
He's not going to like ANY other OS you put him on, because it'll be different from what he usually expects and he'll have to do things to get it working like he's used to.
Biased opinions like these are worthless expect to the people that meet the same circumstances. I recently got an Eee, I installed eeeXubuntu on it. This was a fine solution, I liked the packet manager, I liked having no drive letters, etc - there was a lot of things I really liked about Linux... but at the end of the day, I still prefered, and now installed, XP on it. I use Vista on my desktop s well, because I am a Windows user.
The Linux enviroment certainly isn't bad, but it's different, and I see no advantages to using it when I can manipulate Windows to do everything I would want to do on Linux anyway, and I am more comfortable and familiar with Windows. - FiP0, on 02/26/2008, -1/+17don't feed the trolls.
- ooooo, on 02/26/2008, -3/+18in most linux distos it'll do it all for you.
- inactive, on 02/26/2008, -4/+19what's hard exactly about Sudo apt-get?
or using a package manager? - Ouze, on 02/26/2008, -7/+22Well, this is a unique article that I never have seen before on Digg. Linux vs Vista - how novel and fresh!
- jaschac, on 02/26/2008, -0/+14One of the things I find interesting, in relation to your comment, is when I convince someone to try linux. They spend several days trying to turn linux into windows, and predictably, get frustrated with the experience. So the pain seems to go both ways: the user will try to make the new system into the old system, regardless of what those systems are.
- dualscreenman, on 02/26/2008, -4/+18If you read the article, he had trouble getting cygwin working in Vista.
Oh, and your MSDN link is broken. - Kazbaeden, on 02/26/2008, -14/+28My adventure in Linux land as a Vista user went something like this:
Well, that was an easy install. Let's see why is my resolution 1024x768? Maybe it's a driver thing. Oh well I'll fix that later. I think I'll just watch a movie. That's weird, my movies aren't playing. Maybe I'll listen to some of my MP3s. Oh... can't do that either. We'll supposedly I need some downloads to do these things so I'll go online. But wait, where is my wireless card?
THIS is what everyone's been talking about?
No thanks. - SmokedL, on 02/26/2008, -2/+16He is perfectly well aware of the Add Remove Program control panel applet. It however is in no way a package manager, which is what he is talking about. Add Remove Programs lets you uninstall, or in some cases modify, what you have yourself manually installed. That is all.
A package manager gives you the ability to install the great majority of all the software that is available for your platform at the click of a button.
Want to install a video player? Open your package manager GUI, search for video, select the programs you like and click install.
You get guaranteed virus free software that has been specifically tested and verified to work on your platform.
Once you install software the package manager will automatically manage updates of the installed software and it's dependencies. It does this for every single piece of software on your machine.
Run into a problem with your drive, files get corrupted because of faulty hardware, software, whatever: Just run your package managers version of emerge -e world (Reinstall everything with one command in Gentoo). Every single piece of software you have installed, including the system itself, will be reinstalled/repaired. Note that this is done with the latest version available rather than crushing your system by overwriting newer software with older the way that a "repair" under windows will.
I could go on, but I think you get the point. Windows has nothing that can even remotely compete with a package manager such as apt, or portage. They play in an entirely different league. - cyberwiz01, on 02/26/2008, -2/+15I couldnt read TFA but the Alt+leftclick or Alt+rightclick in Linux allows you to resise or move the window from anywhere within that window. There is no need to move your mouse to the titlebar or the edge of the window. It is much faster and easier IMO and is a feature that I really miss when I find myself on a Windows box.
- digggggggggg, on 02/26/2008, -3/+16You know, people will take you more seriously when you don't resort to calling people 'retarded' and their arguments '*****'.
Just something I'd thought I'd let you in on. - dsenman, on 02/26/2008, -2/+15Is this supposed to surprise anyone? As if any Linux guru would admit to enjoying anything from Vista, XP, etc.
I love Linux for servers. But for a desktop, I find it a total pain in the ass. Sure I am used to Windows, but everything "just works" for me on Vista. Reading these blogs makes me wonder how I accidentally got the apparent only properly working version of Vista? Where are all thes bugs and downfalls that I keep hearing about?
I think the moral of the story is to stick with what you know. If Linux works for you, then great. If Vista floats your boat, then super. - Waiting2awake, on 02/26/2008, -9/+22Hey buddy, right now I am trying to get an older scanner working in XP - it is plug and play with Linux and I have spent the last hour finding drivers and frontends for it. Same with my camera, my printers, and just about everything else I have ever had the occasion to try between the two systems.
At least as far as I have seen myself, this idea that Linux lacks drivers is mainly a myth, like so much FUD. - MioTheGreat, on 02/26/2008, -4/+16>Lack of good cmdline tools
Powershell. - andycr512, on 02/26/2008, -5/+17"You run old versions of Microsoft SQL Server on Linux?"
-1 Irrelevant.
"*****. http://msdn2.microsoft.com/en-us/library/aa372866. ..."
Add .aspx to the end of that URL and you get a sick joke. That isn't package management. We had that... Oh, about 12 years ago. Read up on what a package manager can do and call us back when you can open an application, check off an application from the tens of thousands listed, and have it download and install it for you automatically - no questions, no hassles, no CD keys.
"*****. http://cygwin.com/"
Read the article. He said it didn't work. Secondly, Cygwin is a sad hack to make an OS with a terrible terminal into an OS with a decent terminal, and after it all, you're still running on Windows.
"*****. http://www.chiark.greenend.org.uk/~sgtatham/putty/"
Do people even read these days? Putty didn't work either. Is it too much to ask for you to read the article you're criticizing? - Acolyte357, on 02/26/2008, -0/+12He cheated, he's using andLinux which is a linux kernel port.
- slasc, on 02/26/2008, -5/+16That's not a linux flaw...that's a developer flaw. Namely, the developers not developing on an open platform for cross-platform distribution...
Id does it... - DangerCollie, on 02/26/2008, -5/+16You can put this shoe on the other foot. For years I was steeped in Windows World and started playing around with Linux. Early on it was very frustrating. Finding and installing software was difficult, rarely did an install work the first time. I'd play around with it for a while, then switch back. Play around with a different distro, then switch back. Then I stumbled on Xandros. Stuck with that one for a long time but still did the bulk of my work on Windows. Then along came Ubuntu. Somewhere about two years ago, Linux advanced and my expertise improved to the point I reached a break through. Now my Windows box is largely a paper weight. I use it for video editing and music mixing. I absolutely hate doing anything in Windows because it's so obscure. Follow the dorky wizards...click, click, click....did that solve your problem? No. Now what? Back through the same stupid wizard again.
- FiP0, on 02/26/2008, -2/+13Truth itself.
- mattmcm, on 02/26/2008, -1/+12Yes, I bought it. In that case, you can say what you wish. But DRM is a non issue. I can play every single music and video I've downloaded with no restrictions at all.
If Vista gave me a message along the lines of "Access to this file has been blocked because it may contain illegal content," then there would be a point to your DRM statement. I don't use Media Player, and I have Business so Media Centre is also out.
I haven't made the net any less secure. I'm not an average dumbass user. I don't click adverts saying "WOW FREE EMOTICONS!!" and I don't run executable files without checking them out first. - barwin, on 02/26/2008, -1/+12I wish WinMover worked on Win XP x64 .. no dice :(
- mgromer, on 02/26/2008, -6/+16Yeah, I have no idea how you could have issues with hardware drivers with anything but some obscure hardware lol I've been running Vista for a year now on multiple computers with no issues.
- thinman1189, on 02/26/2008, -2/+12IMO should be stopped first.
- podgey22, on 02/26/2008, -2/+12Sigh. That's not what he was saying.
It's ironic because a common Windows=>Linux convert complains about the lack of drivers available for things (eg WiFi drivers). The article writer was completely correct in that default Windows drivers often suck big ass, updated ones (via Windows Update) suck even harder and if the company that made your hardware disappears overnight (as some of the smaller Chinese outfits tend to at an alarming rate), you're left without any driver support and you have to scrounge around third-party, often virus-filled "driver sites".
While it doesn't support enough hardware, the hardware that it *does* cater to, is much better supported. - cawpin, on 02/26/2008, -0/+10Um, D-Link works out of the box with most Linuxes. Mine did, that's why I bought it.
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