What is Digg?63 Comments
- Tynan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Big surprise. People who only want to use Internet can use Linux after someone else installs and configures it for them and shows them how to start their browser.
Never mind that using a Web browser is incredibly easy in any OS if that's all you want to do and someone else sets up the system for you.
Sorry if I'm not convinced that this means anything. Linux remains (by its nature, not because of any major fault) comparatively very difficult to use because it is a system by and for tech junkies. There is little reason for the unwashed masses (most of whom don't know what RAM is and don't care) to try to wade through hundreds of distros trying to find the one that is right for them and then figure out how to install it. I always love how people seem to think it's so great that you can modify your open source programs. As if more that 0.01% of people have any clue as to how to do this.
I also love how nobody seems to be dissing Fox when their pro-individual stance happens to fall in the right place in this case. - estvir, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3also, your parents can't/shouldn't be compared to the general pc population.
your parents also have a son [or family member] with the know-how to setup a opensource computer, 'the masses' don't have this. - matts0344, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2I tried using Linux, but it just gets annoying sometimes having to do a search or ask on a forum for every little thing I want to do because I don't know how the hell to do it in Linux. I use it sometimes when I feel like it, (have dual boot Ubuntu and Linux) but I just feel more comfortable in XP.
For me, theres really nothing bad about XP, it never really crashes and I keep it and a virus scanner up to date. All I usually do is IM, use Firefox, listen to mp3s etc. - cybernetic798, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You know I really hate it when people submit slanted headlines. "At least they'll never experience the BSOD"? When is the last time you had a BSOD in XP or 2003. I have never had a single crash in XP or 2k3. I'm sure one nut will reply to this saying that XP crashes all the time only to bolster their biased argument but mysteriously no one but these biased Linux users (apologies to the unbiased ones) seems to have any trouble with XP.
On the other hand, an Ubuntu installation of mine suddenly had a 'kernel panic' even though I hadn't visited that partition for a while and hadn't changed anything at all. I had to jump through many holes to get that installation going again and I am 100% certain no common user would be capable of doing that, whereas Windows crashes are relatively easy to fix, and usually there is no lasting effect from a crash other than possibly losing whatever you were working on at the time. Windows XP and 2003 gracefully restart processes that crash in most cases (for example, if explorer.exe crashes, the shell is restarted and automatically repopulates task bar etc, something that it didn't do in earlier versions).
You people talk of Windows as if it is total crap, but actually it is a very good piece of software, it just has some errors in it just like EVERY other software out there.
And as for viruses and trojans, hmm let's see...if more people target one platform, that platform is going to have more vulnerabilities right? Yes that's right. Thank you for admitting that we can't place ALL the blame on Microsoft.
Let's not be naive and slanted here, different OS's have different roles. I use Linux for cross-platform development and cluster coding etc., but Linux is by no means near the goal of being good enough for a common user. I think the closest distribution, as many have pointed out, is Ubuntu if only for the fact that there is an outstanding guide to setting up common programs at http//ubuntuguide.org. But even that guide fails for common things like sound setup on some systems like laptops. Even though hardware support is a hard problem for Linux developers given that not many manufacturers are willing to divulge useful information, it is a major problem for common users.
My 2 cents. - kalisphoenix, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1> When has the linux kernel, or any unix kernel crashed within the last 7 years? The only time i've ever seen a kernel panic was when my hard drive started to die. And on linux, a small driver issue dosen't collapse the entire running workstation like what happens during a BSOD so get off of billy's dick
I've had a couple happen (Linux user since '98). I've also had FreeBSD kernel panics (whoa!). I've seen both on generic 32-bit x86 boxes with decent hardware and no dying components. The kernels aren't *perfect*... also had some pretty hard lockups due to X. Couldn't ssh in, machines didn't respond to pings, nothing. Roughly similar to the amount and severity of problems I've had with Windows 2000/XP.
This is an amusing conversation, given your name ;-) - Lewie, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Wait until they try searching for their favorite program, and try to install it.
I'd love to fully switch to Linux, but I don't have the time nor patience to deal with it right now. I'm no novice, but Ubuntu still isn't nearly as easy as XP or OSX. - mdweezer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I ran BeOS on my parents computer for 2 months when Windows crapped out and I didn't feel like rebuilding their computer. I already had it on another partition, I just showed them the web browser and setup a email client and grabbed a driver for the printer and it was perfect.
Ran faster too. - briangig, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"It doesn't faze them at all."
Durrrr...
anyway. I've been using linux on and off, for serveral years, and it needs alot of polishing before it is ready for the masses. People are so used to windows, where everything is a click away, and always (usually works). Why would they switch to linux? Spyware/virii? I dont think alot of people even understand that concept... - rm999, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I barely use Linux compared to Windows and I've experienced more fatal crashes in Linux than the blue screen of death in Windows XP.
- Zuwiki, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Yeah, I knew someone who did that with his parent's computer. Although, they didn't even know what Windows was.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Linux for the masses yeah right... It has its places.. Though I can say that it has improved a lot these six years
- uptown, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Wayne's parents: How do I see the internet?
Wayne: Click here .. see, you can do it all without Windows.
Wayne's parents: What's Windows ... and how do I see the internet? - Optimus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Linux is not for the masses.
- SlashNot, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Yea i recently put Ubuntu on my parents pc and it works for them. They use the computer for email and internet, so it doesnt bother them.
- FaNtAsMa, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Yeah, instead of a BSOD they'll get a kernel panic, much better..."
You have to REALLY ***** something up before you get kernel panic.. - Jozer99, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Linux is not for the masses. Install linux on a moderately computer literate person, you know, they check email, use word, ect... First day, everything is peachy. Then they try and install something. They can't. It involvees using the terminal, recompiling the kernel, then just plain doesn't work because the directions were wrong. They go back to windows. Honestly linux community. When you can make programs and hardware that just install, no terminal, to dependancy warnings, no other crap, then it will be ready.
- DrDabbles, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"I'm a developer and the only time my WinXP crashes is when a program I am writing does something unexpected."
First off, if you're developing software and not trapping errors (even ones you don't expect / couldn't get)...you suck at life. Any software I have written in the past 7 years has CERTAINLY not caused a BSOD.
"Linux for the masses yeah right... It has its places.. Though I can say that it has improved a lot these six years"
Six years? Where have you been? I can assure you that I used RedHat 9 years ago. Don't spout disinformation, please. You'll only hurt yourself trying.
I have used many OSs that most of you have never or will never see. I've done it all from AIX, OS400, Every version of Windows there has been, Linux, Novell Netware, BeOS, and I've even had a BSD box or two in there. All of them have their strengths and weaknesses. When someone comes to me asking about Linux, MacOS, or any of the others I tell them this, "Stick with what you know unless you are willing to relearn everything you know about computers".
Fundamentally, all of the above OSs are different. Dialogs, messages, buttons, even windows are presented in different ways to a user (if at all). That does not mean one is better than another. They are all capable of fulfilling the other's tasks. The only reason you would chose one OS over another anymore is preference and support for legacy applications.
If you run an OS400 shop, with hundreds or thousands of AS/400s it is safe to assume that you will not be making an OS switch any time soon. It's costly to rewrite/purchase apps for a new OS, and it's even worse to retrain users. Having said that, Linux runs on the AS/400. Same goes with almost ever other platform out there. Hell, I even ran Ubuntu on my Powerbook because I couldn't get used to OSX.
In the end, the squabbling over Panicked kernels and Blue Screened boxes is useless. Every PC is configured differently- hardware and software wise. Moreover, no two users have the same usage patterns. Bugs creep in, hardware flakes out randomly...consider it a miracle that you bastards even have a PC to begin with. My Apple IIc couldn't browse the web or even telnet to the PC next to it 13 years ago. - gotamd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The problem is that a lot of the "masses" are between computer illiterate and linux-guru status. They know enough to be frustrated by Linux when AIM and other stuff won't easily install (well, you'd have to use GAIM anyway unless you wanted that crappy POS thing that AIM came out with for Linux years and years ago).
- kloper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Yeah, instead of a BSOD they'll get a kernel panic, much better...
- outerspaceapple, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0nice, its great when they don't have to integrate with an (MS) office 'cuz then its just all about the functionality, not the compatibility.
- zeldafan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Yeh, duplicate story. So no digg.
In other news I'm setting up my mom's computer for work with ubuntu and open office. She won't know the difference. - drbroccoli, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Ubuntu is very good. Noob and experienced user friendly. I'm stuck with Fedora, unfortunately.
- dipswitch, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Nice article. For the interested: try Ubuntu, http://www.ubuntu.com/
- Brackhar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Nicely written article.
Digg. - mancat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0So what would you tell your parents when they want to:
- Play a game that didn't come with their distribution.
- Install some weird Embroidering Pattern Generation software.
- Install a browser plugin to view something like Shockwave that is not supported on Linux.
- Pretty much do anything BESIDES browsing the web, using a word processor, or sending an E-mail without your help.
?
It's nice that they won't have any spyware, but unless your parents really do nothing else with the computer, you've just severely limited their choices of available software they can use. Maybe you should have given more thought to setting up their Windows machine with a limited user account? At least if they have some Windows program to install, you can install it for them, instead of saying "No it doesn't work at all." I guess this is not an option if you hate Microsoft, though. - Tobey, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Misleading title. This was more about open source software in general, rather than Linux.
But it was still a good article. - patto, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0get over the bsods.. they hardly happen anymore
but props to fox for having a story about linux - pingviini, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0The only time I have seen a BSOD in winXP was due to a faulty nVidia driver on a really old (tnt2) video card. Give Microsoft credit where it's due. They did a good job bringing computing to the masses. And, no I'm not a windows fan boy. I am using Linux right now, and have built a system for my brothers and sister using SuSE. And suse actually had good video drivers for said tnt2 video card. Whoda guessed?
- rutty, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0"Linux is not for the masses. Install linux on a moderately computer literate person, you know, they check email, use word, ect... First day, everything is peachy. Then they try and install something. They can't. It involvees using the terminal, recompiling the kernel, then just plain doesn't work because the directions were wrong. They go back to windows. Honestly linux community. When you can make programs and hardware that just install, no terminal, to dependancy warnings, no other crap, then it will be ready."
When was the last time you installed anything in Linux? 1998?
I recently updated Adobe Acrobat on my work XP machine. It wanted to reboot. TWICE. I never have to reboot my Linux box unless I update the kernel or graphics driver.
Modern Linux distros come with package managers these days and installing applications is easy, just like Windows but in a different place. It's not all about compiling from source these days you know. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0This is not a very good title (Linux not for the masses? Think again!) because the article doesn't mention one very unavoidable situation. Let's just say that I did install Linux on my Grandparents PC (or anyone else's for that matter) and they had never used Windows/OSX before... (So far so good) They love it! It's easy to use and very secure and stable. Now they are shopping for various items at Walmart and something catches their eye... So now they are at home with their new software they just bought from Walmart. They stick the CD in the drive and follow the directions from the box. You know where this story is going... If they ever figure out how to get their money back from Walmart, now that they have opened the software and could have potentially copied it and written down the serial number... They find the same software free on the Internet as there is an open source clone version available that does the same exact thing the other software would have done, only without the cost of retail software... Now Grandma just needs to know how to extract a tar.gz ./configure make and make install and we are all good. Good luck Grandma! I just finished showing her how to record with the VCR...
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0cybernetic798 said... "And as for viruses and trojans, hmm let's see...if more people target one platform, that platform is going to have more vulnerabilities right? Yes that's right. Thank you for admitting that we can't place ALL the blame on Microsoft."
Linux usually doesn't get viruses/spy-ware because "viruses/spy-ware" need root/administrator privileges to infect your OS. Windows wasn't built from the ground up for multi-user logins like Unix/Linux, thus Windows doesn't function well when a user is logged in without having "Administrative" rights. If you do not believe me, then try to install something as administrator, then when the program needs to reboot, log in as a regular user. (non-admin) Many times, the program you are trying to install will need to write to the registry when it reboots. Since you are not "Administrator" using this "other" login, your program will not finish setup properly, and the program will crash or be buggy. To prevent this, you can always be logged in as Administrator, but then you open doors for viruses and spy-ware. Your explanation sounds like "conspiracy theory" to me. - senectus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I did this for my Mother as well.. using Ubuntu
http://www.modmeup.net/?page_id=2 - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0My POV is this:
To the complete computer n00b, linux can be a godsend, because there is simply nearly no way for them to contract windows viruses and malware. Everything is there for them: Internet, solitaire, music player, word processor, etc.
For the middleman/ end user, ie the jaded 15 year old who loves to play CS:source on his windows XP installation, he may be thrown by the ways in which to install and run programs, configuring Wine/Cedega, etc. It will take alot of growing pains, like searching forums for answers to how to gain file permissions, etc and how to install his ATI drivers (ive been at it for months, still cant get it right).
As a total geek, I am in love with linux. It just looks and feels sharp. I have my letdowns and sighs about it here and there, but there are many victories to be had when running this OS as well. I love linux, and believe it can only get better and better. - liaohoahui, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Great to have another article to promote Linux.
I am fed up with people asking me Windows related questions. I never like Windows and since Windows is for the mass, why ask me questions?
Mac is for the mass, but not Linux user like me. Single button mouse just sucks! I want Three-Button-Mouse with scroll capability. - Kiba, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Linux and window are like apple and orange.
Linux is only easy if you know how to use them.
Window is only easy if you know how to use them.
Linux don't suck and will never be like window. They rock and kick ass for me. All I need is to learn the rope.
If you are willing to learn and do things the linux way than it is for you. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0At least none of the software they buy in the store won't work for their computer.
We bought my grandmother a linux machine for christmas and within a week I had to drive 100 miles to install Windows XP for her because the interface was too confusing. - mancat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0@brokencrystal
Don't blame Microsoft for developers that have flat out IGNORED Microsoft's own guidelines for writing NT-compatible applications. I use Windows as a limited user, and aside from some few badly written programs (e.g. Winamp wants to write to its installation directory), everything works fine. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Let me add one more thing:
If you really want to do good, start a small child out on linux. Show them the ropes and then let them have at it. I set my 5 year old sister up on it, and she's lovin it. Playing PlanetPenguin racer, playing the typing tutorial games, gnibbles, surfing the internet securely on Firefox, viewing photos, and listening to Raffi MP3's. When she becomes more adept at reading, I'll teach her how to use Ubuntu's package manager to download new games. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Myself, I love Linux. I use it regularly and wouldn't think of running Windows on my HTTP/FTP server, but Linux does have its problems. For example...
1. Need a easy standard for installing programs. (AKA Setup.exe) Deb and rpm are ok, but there are different versions for every distro of Linux and not always available for your distro. Many times, there is not a deb or rpm file available at all and you need to build it from a command line. What about a GUI for tar.gz that auto configures, make, and make installs your applications? (It could include some checkboxes for options and a text box for path or other options.) Is there something like this available? If so, I haven't found it yet.
2. Dependancy Files. (Hint - Include them in the package when possible!!!) Windows programs include needed DLL files. This can be a nightmare!
Again, I love Linux, but it needs some standards for basic software installation. - arkanoid, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0As I can see Linux will be sooner or later the most used OS. As time passes more people migrates, and distros becomes better. Dark gray future for MS.
- Hyperion, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Dupe, and already made to the front page, just article was on a different site.
http://digg.com/linux_unix/Linux_for_your_Mum_Dad - furtwan1, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0No BSOD, but Kernel Panics instead...
Our Linux (Redhad) labs at school (MSU) always have at least 2 KP'd computers. It's funny because our XP labs never have BSOD's...
Wait, it can't be a problem with Linux, M$ must have somehow messed up the Linux labs. - mancat, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"Mac is for the mass, but not Linux user like me. Single button mouse just sucks! I want Three-Button-Mouse with scroll capability."
So buy a cheap USB mouse and plug it in. Solved. - Burner, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I swear I've seen this article on Digg before?
- outerspaceapple, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I know I'm slacking with my Slackware distro
- estvir, on 10/12/2007, -3/+2they won't have bsod, but they'll experience kernel crashes due to 'developers' being slack and othe reasons.
they always will not experience [decent] gaming, hardware support, software support and many other things. - digitalsin, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"At least they'll never experience the BSOD"
What a slanted crappy addition to the headline. Guess what? I've seen the BSOD twice on one of my computers since XP has been out. One of those times was due to a bad driver.
Take your biased crap elsewhere fanboy. - EyeDye, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"newbie-friendly Mac"
haha! - alethien, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0A properly set up computer not crashing is not exactly big news. I'm a developer and the only time my WinXP crashes is when a program I am writing does something unexpected.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0"Damn it i knew i should of stuck with Computer Science, why the ***** did i decide to graduate with communication and history just to go off to law school. Now I'm going to be a blood sucking lawyer for this corps and charge them up the ass, when i could be working for them and be there when the bottom belly's up again in a couple of years....."
moron.
99% chance you're still (failing) in highschool. Learn how to speak, before becoming a "lawyer".
clown. -
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