What is Digg?34 Comments
- lifeforms, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7I dugg this story for my own memory, but now it's got to the frontpage I have to say the article is total crap. What we seem to have here is a Linux fan who is grabbing at straws to discredit a simple, run of the mill, marketing effort from Sun.
The most horrible part would have to be the linguistic blurb about the "better Linux than Linux tagline": it is self-explanatory what Sun means. Obviously Linux has momentum in the marketplace, but Linux is not the *goal*, it is a *means* to a certain goal. What they are saying is that Solaris could be better at meeting these goals.
But the article then goes on enumerating some Linux alternatives to common Solaris' selling points, conveniently leaving out Solaris' technologies that Linux doesn't have an answer to. Most of the anti-points can be generalized to ANY product or marketing strategy. Of course competitors will offer some technologies that can (partly) replace a product. It's not exactly obligatory to mention this in an advertorial is it. In the common usecase of ZFS it may be that ReiserFS or one of the others can compete, I am not up to date on this, but ZFS has a LOT of new features. Also it would be a lie to say that Xen or UML have similar performance and management advantages to Solaris zones, for instance.
Also, it tries to scare people about Solaris' license. This is the same type of behavior that many commercial outfits exhibit towards Linux. What gives? Most people only need to use the software in a commercial setting and most people don't understand GPL or its consequences either. At least with Sun, you have a entity with capital which is dependent on the software's success and will do anything to defend it. You can spin the license stories any way you want.
I have the feeling that the author of the article has not really had experience with Solaris, and also that this article was written in a hurry. It provides nothing other than perhaps the trivial claim that a company's marketing department focuses on positive points of its product. - jambarama, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Linux is a great desktop system. Solaris is not a desktop, it is a server OS. Sure you can get most stuff that runs on Linux to run on Solaris, but it is a pain in the neck and (IMO) the package management needs some work.
Solaris is a far better server than Linux. NASA uses Solaris/AIX and other real unices to run mission critical stuff. Linux just isn't stable enough to be on mars. But Linux really makes one heck of a great desktop OS (I'm on debian right now!).
The point is they are different. Solaris is where most people who know real Unix (not a clone) learned it. Solaris has nothing to fear from Linux, though it certainly does from the BSDs. - taswake, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2Quite an interesting page although I don't agree with his end premise which appears to be that Sun has had its day. Solaris is a capable operating system and has its place. Linux is also a capable operating system which has its place. The two don't have to fight it out.
- snupples, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4solaris is not "more stable than linux". Just because it CAN be, doesn't make it always so. That of course works both ways. But if you think linux isn't stable enough for nasa's consideration then check this link:
http://flightlinux.gsfc.nasa.gov/ - OperatorNo9, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1I think most of you missed the point of Andreesen's comment. Of course, he is not saying, or implying, that Solaris is Linux. What he's saying is that it's better at what Linux is supposed to be good and then some. It's like saying a motorcycle is a better moped that a moped as a motorcycle will do everything a moped will do and more.
Seriously, guys, stop being so concrete.
"Solaris not Linux...does not compute...illogical..." - robsonde, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1its like saying a truck is a better boat than a boat............
one is not the other and so can be compaired in that way.
it is fine to say it a truck is better than a boat for getting to work
I think that solaris is the better OS but that is driven by what I use if for.
I would never use solaris as a desktop OS and i would never use linux as a highend file server/mail server. thats just me.
i like coke and not pepsi too :-) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1You all are better at being me than me.
- 3lite, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1People who say that people should be shot should be shot. Oh, wait..
- pvera, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Slashdot is better than Digg at being Slashdot. No digg.
- Tux42, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1"While Sun wants you to 'get the facts' we notice that they persist in comparing Solaris10 to Red Hat's enterprise model."
Interesting. This is not the first time where the phrase "get the facts" was used against Linux. Every ones favorite Redmond company used that in a large and often controversial campaign.
http://www.microsoft.com/windowsserversystem/facts/ - buffalogeek, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Everytime an anti-Solaris screed starts, the writer invokes how usable Gentoo, Debian, Fedora, et al are as opposed to RedHat and Solaris. Here's a tip, enterprise computing customers (Sun's customer base) primarily use RHEL, Solaris and AIX.
Solaris 10 does provide many of the promised features of RHEL along with world class cryptography, dtrace, ZFS, zones, etc. It's free, the support is top notch, and it runs on pretty much any piece of server hardware on the planet. Would I run it at home like I run Debian? No, but Sun isn't looking to win the desktop market. - whiznat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+1Be sure to read the comments. There is a lot more to this story than just the article.
In particular, info on open source Solaris derivatives Nextenta, Schillix, and Belenix. "Nexenta is simply amazing. It is server and desktop friendly Solaris a la Ubuntu." - Dopeskills, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0Gahhhh..... No enterprise is going to run a community distro. The only valid comparisons are Red Hat and SUSE. Oracle 10g won't even install unless it detects an enterprise distro.
What a bunch of Linux fanboi ranting. And why do people keep comparing Solaris vs Linux on the desktop?!? - scbysnx, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0wow theres a title I didn't see coming *sigh*
- brownspank, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0People are getting syntactic and literal in here. No digg.
- bitswapper, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I would say it depends on what you want to do. If for example you want to use RRDTool for anything, then its hard to compare 'apt-get install rrdtool' with the work required on solaris. IIRC, its much more of a hassle. Package management on solaris is still far behind debian in general for many things. Not that debian *is* linux, but it still a matter of what you want to do leading to what OS (or distribution for that matter) you want to use.
Also their ethernet drivers won't do autonegotiation unless you tell them. The IEEE spec spells out that you must support detection of NLP (10/100) or FLP (1000). The sun drivers, unless they see the autonegotiation setting the in the config file, won't work on gigabit links. They won't even bring the ethernet link up at all. Never happens on linux. BTW, I'm not referring to duplex and speed, but rather the hardware level negotiation that 8-pin interfaces have to do to tell if they're plugged into a gigabit-capable network device. The 1000Mbps ethernet devices send out a signal on a different freq than 10/100 devices. Unless autonegotiation is turned on in solaris, the OS won't check, and won't bring up the interface. Not a minor oversight at all - a big one. A big enough oversight to point to a larger failure in the solaris 'camp', or whoever does QA for solaris. Its a little like having anti-lock brakes that won't pulse unless you press the 'driving on slippery surface' button. - wewa, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0I agree, this is a poorly worded story title. But I did manage to read it anyway.
I pretty much agree with the main points of the article.
If you have dealt with Sun, and their products, you too will know that there is a lot of BS you have to put up with, much like when you buy/use Apple. Its a love/hate relationship. You spend a lot, for a little, when it comes to customer service.
Back in the 90's, we use to service and support a lot of SPARCstations, running AutoCAD, as it was a superior productivity workstation compared to a 486 PC running Acad.
But this was a $10k+ workstation, compared to a $2k 486 PC. So you really needed to justify such a workstation. We had SGI Indigos running Acad faster, for less money, and we were an Apple VAR, but Acad on Mac was stillborn, but i think i'm going beyond the scope of the digg readership...
Its interesting to note that a story like 'new mac mini is perfect for HDTV' will get 60+ comments, and one like this will see 1/3 of that...but this is more of a topic for slashdot, but they'retoo busy over there trying to be 1st post, or funniest post, than to share and discuss, so i'm over here...but i digress...
Anyways, Sun doesn't know consumers, and so anything they do even approaching mainstream users, like trying to woo us with desktop solaris or linux, i stay away.
I had sold and supported a few dozen Cobalt appliances like the Qube and Raq, but when Sun acquired Cobalt Networks, they managed to MUCK that whole company, and products, as that was way too close to the 'consumer sun' orbit, and they got burned, with poor marketing, support lines, and future product development.
When i used to call for support back in 1990-91, they would keep having to reconnect me to 'sun' support east, which was a bunch of guys in the World Trade Center, who were assigned to 'Sun Cobalt' support. I was worried for them after 9/11. I still wonder if those guys I used to talk to are alright... - ZarZax, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0nice followup..
- DoctorShim, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0[Unrelated comment about how cool it would be to wrench my head down a toilet.]
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0i couldn't believe the first story even made front page, why would you support meaningless marketing upchuck...?
- neofactor, on 10/12/2007, -0/+0It comes to the community of support...
Goverment and private industry tend to use SUN (my company is one) for internat needs but when we offer our public hosting I would always recommend the community defacto like Redhat or Susi or any other flavor. - mancat, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1Well, Solaris is quite a bit better at being Unix than Linux. Hurr hurr.
- wewa, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I forgot to mention, i did download solaris x86 last year, all 4 isos, and did install it on a dell xeon server, and it sure was very basic. i felt it was like going back 5 years or more in installation interface. then i ran into so many hardware setup problems (NIC, video, etc.), that i ended up reformatting and installing CentOS x64...
So maybe it performs well, and is fast, if you can get beyond the install and config, but i'll never know...TMW. - sailor, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0I just installed and removed Solaris 10 from my puter...hardly a contender to any of the many fine distros out there.
- geminitojanus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0Not to mention a dupe from yesterday. GOOD JOB!
- tuna1, on 10/12/2007, -2/+1People who say "Hax0rish" should be shot.
- thewhitefedora, on 10/12/2007, -1/+0A well written article shooting down the lie recently posted on digg.
- newtronic, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Lame. No digg. Can't we leave the operating system squabbles to slashdot?
- Maverick83, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Dupe.
- chrislhardin, on 10/12/2007, -2/+0Finally an article that is worth the words. This guy should be hailed as a God.
- mikeod, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0All marketing is *****.
- 7of7, on 10/12/2007, -4/+1The only difference is that Linux always seems so Hax0rish. You can't get anything to work right unless your haxor skills are up to date. Solaris, on the other hand, works decently well, for what it does, which is nothing. Seriously, all it's good for is CLI. There are a few CAD programs for it, but there are better versions of that software for Windows. Both of these operating systems are amateurish at best and downright useless at worst.
- qixuan214, on 10/12/2007, -3/+0All marketing is *****.
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