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- Phocion55, on 10/12/2007, -28/+176One problem holding back Linux is that people are so brainwashed to using Microsoft products.
I did an "experiment" over the weekend and asked a friend to launch Firefox from Gnome.
He blankly looked at the screen as said: "Where the hell is the Start button?"...completely neglecting the fact that it clearly says "Applications" up top.
He'll probably be the same person to flame Linux on a comment thread because he can't figure out how to perform a simple function. - jmpcrew, on 10/12/2007, -11/+71There is a learning curve for everything. The first time you touched a windows box, I bet you were not able to do "simple tasks." I agree that I felt much more comfortable on Windows for quite a long time, and when I decided to switch over to Linux (because I wanted to learn something new) it was tough. However, it would be extremely interesting if you conducted a study by giving one group of children (without preconceptions about computers) Linux and another Windows. My guess is that both groups would advance at the same speed and end up equally fluent.
Don't knock Linux just because you can't immediately be as well versed in operating Linux as you are in Windows. Linux is different, not less or worse. - picktwo, on 10/12/2007, -12/+60I think that there are way more important factors that play against the expansion of Linux than bad comments on forums. One of them is that 800 million users are "used" to work on Windows and the other one is that Linux people are not very interested about this ( http://wskills.blogspot.com/2006/12/biggest-linux-problem-it-makes-users.html ).
I'm a Windows user/developer but I have to do with Linux from time to time. And I must tell it's amazing how hard it is to do some simple tasks if you don't know the work flow upfront. That's more important than performance/appearance and so on... - z00k, on 10/12/2007, -5/+33We can also not forget XPDE:
http://www.xpde.com/shots.php - b7illsmith, on 10/12/2007, -6/+23That's the neat thing about Linux, you can make it look any way you like. I prefer the simple look. No desktop icons, no task bar, no start button, no eye candy, a menu with only the applications that I like.
http://i114.photobucket.com/albums/n245/b7illsmith/myscreen.jpg
Yes, you can even make Linux look like Windows, I don't know why you would want that, but it's OK with me :)
Have fun! - AngryBacon, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16No, they were sued because Lindows rhymes with Windows, then they changed their name to Linspire.
- regeya, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14"Who's copying who now?"
Aw, c'mon, there have been themes/patches/whatever copying the look of Windows, MacOS, and other OSes for years now. This is nothing new. The thing that's new is, erm, copying the Vista look.
I'm still annoyed that early OS X themes used blue inactive title bars. Yep, they copied the OS X 10.0 screenshots, the ones taken against a blue desktop wallpaper. And now, 6-7 years later, we have early-beta-quality support for compositing? Yipee. At least most people concentrated on things like usability and on application writing, rather than gauss-blurred drop shadows and translucent inactive titlebars. Sure, Apple managed to do both...wait, I have nowhere to go with that.
See, this is why y'all should have gotten behind a project like Berlin, which wanted to completely replace the X Window System with something different, but instead we watched people go ga-ga first over KDE's ability to do the same things other desktops could do, then over how Rasterman managed to hack pixmap theme support into GTK. Hell, I would have taken a framebuffer-friendly GNUstep over the current mess, whether or not it included OpenGL eyecandy goodness. - aaronm67, on 10/12/2007, -9/+22@jmpcrew
He's not saying Linux is bad. All he's saying is that if he knows how to do everything in Windows, what is the point in switching? It will take him quite a long time to learn to do everything as fast as he could do in Windows, and a lot of people don't see any reason to learn that. - Computer_Kid, on 10/12/2007, -7/+20This is great for converting grandma to Linux!
- thinsoldier, on 10/12/2007, -5/+17Should have just had the firefox icon on the desktop.
Ever noticed how some people have every app they would ever possibly use on their desktop?
After a while of having all the relatives install crap on the system (+the crap the system came with) the start menu is so full of junk that some people don't even use it. They just have one of the kids put shortcuts to the stuff they actually use on the desktop.
I think mimicking windows is a great idea. The vast majority of win users have no idea what anything is called and need assistance to accomplish even the simplest things.
Anyone who disagrees is probably experienced enough to successfully switch to any other descent OS if they had to. - JeffH, on 10/12/2007, -1/+12Uh, didn't they used to have the same thing with "Lindows" and they ended up getting sued?
- calebhawk, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13Why would you want it to look like everyone else... you're running linux! get creative and make it your own
- thtroyer, on 10/12/2007, -4/+15That's scary... not to mention ugly.
Doesn't Microsoft have the rights to the Fisher Price-look anyway? - ZaNkY, on 10/12/2007, -2/+13Because ONE distro mimics windows you say Linux is copying off of Microsoft?
Innacurate - rowanjl, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11The problem is, the innovative people can't cater for everyone, because not everyone is willing to learn an entirely new method of working.
- InsaneMachine, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12@ptFoe
I wouldn't be talking about intelligence without proper grammar skills. - Alex.w, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12I think what he means is.. "I'm a spammer, click on my link that has nothing to do with the topic."
But porting GNOME to Win32/Areo would be awesome burke. - exsst, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10haha, cool... They should make it look so identical that even a person who's used xp for years wouldn't be able to notice, then microsoft would be really pissed!
- 0x0000ff, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10Commander Keen disguised as windows!
- crazybrit, on 10/12/2007, -3/+11That's a terrible idea. If people don't want to use Linux, don't force it on them.
- JimV, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7@ AssProphet
I hate opinions like yours. If you don't like the damn theme, then don't use it. Jesus...I don't know how many times I read the exact same thing as what you just posted while looking for a Mac OS X theme for my Ubuntu. SOME PEOPLE LIKE THE WAY XP OR OS X LOOKS. That is not a reason for you to whine. Go make your own damn innovative themes and leave those of us, who like what we know, alone. - crazybrit, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10Ugh... that looks horrible. I can understand why someone would want to make a PC look like OS X, but Luna is just plain fugly, not to mention not nearly as user friendly as default GNOME.
- z00k, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8If my mind serves me right they were sued because of the word "Lindows" saying that it infringed on their copyrights... they lost every case and finally Linspire INC. gave them the right to the name after a transaction was made.
- sirhomer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Microsoft sued and basically lost, and could have lost the "Windows" trademark for attempting to sue. They paid Lindows $20 million to settle.
- sirhomer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7X Windows has it's limitations, but it is a solid framework. Rewriting a new graphical subsystem from scratch would be a huge undertaking, not to mention probably breaking API with virtually all X applications in existence. Fortunately X is flexible, and virtually everything OSX and Windows can do, X can do better (given the right window manager).
- raldz, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8there is nothing hard in Linux when it comes to end-user... everything has a learning curve.. I was born with Windows, and I did experience a hard time figuring out how to execute a simple task in Windows 3.1 the first time I used it... but my son was born with Linux, he can surf the web, go to his favorite sites in the bookmarks, play games, draw pictures... and he is just 3 years old...
you may look at him playing Supertux here:
http://photos.friendster.com/photos/63/15/2205136/224913455l.jpg - AssProphet, on 10/12/2007, -6/+12I can see how this may be helpful for some people, but it's honestly too bad that so many developers spend their time trying to make linux more like windows instead of trying to be innovative. I know there are some out there who are copying osx/doing their own thing, but for too long the majority of gui design in linux has tried to mirror the win9x-xp look. Not cool.
- BrienD, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Where's the 'any' key?
- aaronm67, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7Ugh. Emacs. Go vim.
(Just kidding. Sort of) - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6It would be interesting to pull a switcheroo on someone thats used to using XP and see what they do with it!
- jbus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5Well sorry to tell you but that's not going to happen as long as you and others keep feeding Microsoft's monopoly in both its operating system and gaming platform. You need to start demanding that game developers make games that make use of standards and support regulation and development of open standards in the gaming industry.
Most people seem to think it is a competitors fault that they don't run games that are made to be exclusive to Windows. That's a huge and unlikely feat... The fact that Linux has the amount of compatibility it does at this point (Wine) is a testament to the great efforts that many skilled developers have made to overcome the hurdles that proprietary code and standards present, but all the skills in the world isn't going to get DirectX 10 on Linux or Mac. The only thing that will work is for game developers to take notice that there is a market for more than just Windows gamers and to make sure Microsoft can't bribe them into ignoring that market. Intel, ATI and Nvidia have started to come around, now it's time for the game developers to do the same. - DeadPenguin, on 10/12/2007, -0/+5I agree games is a huge part of the linux migration equation. I will have to keep a small partition to boot XP to play the non Linux games.
I have a feeling its going to get worse when directx 10 hits.
Support the companies that produce linux native games. Write the ones that don't.
I go out of my way to purchase hardware that is "friendly" to Linux (Nvidia) I do the same with software. - Marthinus, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@picktwo
I could say the same to you, as an avid GNU/Linux user I am totally lost in the Windows workflow setting, same goes for the Mac OSX world.
Just because you know windows best does not mean my OS of choice GNU/Linux should work like yours. Same goes for OSX.
I prefer the current OS landscape, three OSes that work great and is stable and everyone can pick and choose what they want. Having different OSes that function differently is a good thing except if you are a big 1984 fan and do not want choices in life.
Corporates never base decisions on how things look or even work, they base it on costs, if it is cheaper to keep the corporate on windows then they will, if it is cheaper to switch to something else and retrain the workers then they will. - cynicist, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"That's a terrible idea. If people don't want to use Linux, don't force it on them."
Actually a majority of those elderly (my mother included) do not notice or care what operating system they have as long as you point them to an easy to use browser and email client. And with lower maintenance costs you'd be doing most of these people a favor. As long as you let them know what you are doing and dual-boot at first to make sure they have software for all of their needs, I don't see a problem with it.
I told my mom I was installing linux on her computer so she wouldn't have the wireless disconnect problem she was having (her particular card happened to be very well supported in linux), all she asked me was if she would still be able to visit cnn's website and check her email. As soon as I showed her where the firefox/thunderbird icons were located she went back to using her computer like she always did, and ubuntu runs much better on a 600mhz machine than windows xp does. - MrTea, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Yeah, the control and flexibility is best IMO. I especially never stop trying to configure KDE the way I want it (e.g. replacing the Kmenu icon with penguin.png).
With windows, you would have to decrypt uxtheme.dll (with a patch) and download a bunch of programs that will do all of the customization. After that, you are pretty much limited to themes. While with KDE or GNOME (don't know about Fluxbox, XFCE, and others) you can just configure everything the way you want it (no, not from the command line). - Computer_Kid, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"Linux is no religion and Linus is no god"
Linus, please forgive him, he lost his way on the righteous path. Try to tech him th way! :-) - jbus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5I don't think this is meant to copy XP. Rather it's meant to allow those poor souls that can't think outside the confines of a Redmond created OS to more easily transition from Windows. That being said, I personally don't agree with it. I think the more people learn in regard to the diversity and similarity of different operating systems, the better off they are. My mother who used to only be able to use a Windows PC, now can easily transition between Linux, Mac and Windows thanks to the fact that she has used them all and adjusted to their similarities and differences without the need to make them look alike.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Better Linspire getting the money than a bunch of attorneys. But I still say it's obvious to anybody that Lindows was an obvious attempt to trade on Microsoft's Windows brand. I suspect Microsoft's problem was not paying enough bribe money to the judge in the first place.
- heavensblade23, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Wasn't there a whole distro based around this idea called licorish, or something like that? It's been a few years.
- wonkavsn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4Yeah man.
Go with what works. Some people have a hard time understanding that a computer is merely a tool for most users. - msgyrd, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Umm...launching firefox from CLI: "firefox"
I wouldn't expect them to know it, but if they aren't willing to try something they don't already know the answer to, then linux is not for them. Linux is not for everyone. I don't intend to be an elitist, but running linux is something you have to want to do, and be willing to put in the effort (which can vary based on what hardware you're trying to use). It's come along way in the last several years, but it still doesn't do much hand holding, and I don't expect it to ever take over as the dominant OS unless Microsoft decides to stop making OSes. - rhfb, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6The only thing holding me back from switching to Linux is
Game Support.
When Linux can run all of my games flawlessly I'll switch in a heartbeat. - CBTF, on 10/12/2007, -3/+6In windows, you can delete all your desktop icons and choose to auto-hide the start bar, just a point...
- TheReport, on 10/12/2007, -4/+7I use to think that Linux wasn't more popular due to the fact that it had a steeper learning curve than it does now but if that was truly the case then OSX and Macs would be a much more prominent platform. Then I began thinking that maybe it had to do with how Windows got popular in the first place. Catering to business needs and allowing for 3rd party developers to develop easier on their platform in turn luring even more fresh 3rd party apps and repeat. The problem with that is that in turn of becoming a very compatible Operating systems for an assortment of computers it also sacrificed some of the security aspects that Linux disto's are more known for. Can a disguised Linux that looked like XP alone make it more popular? if you were looking for a straight shooting answer I can easily reply by saying...No
- SupaDawg, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3It helps the learning curve. I only attempted linux when Linspire (then lindows) gave a user-friendly transition. When you're used to certain things in certain places it makes it handy to have them kept there. Now I use Gentoo as my linux distro of choice (still a windows-primary user however)
I like apps like these, give people a more friendly option to switching. - DeathfireD, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3I've read allot of comments about sneaking this off to grandma and grandpa but wouldn't it be more realistic to sneak this on kids computers to get the more prepared for the future?
I remember my UNIX professor telling us a story how she started her daughter on Linux at age 8 and her daughter fell in love with the games that come with Fedora. After that she had no plans on using windows since Linux was easier in her eyes.
So if anything I think people should start sneaking this on younger peoples computers and stuff. - sadler121, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3whatever, TWM rulez!
- r3zonance, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4"if i could get the truetype-feeling of windows..."
What the hell does that even mean? - r3zonance, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3"File systems? I've seen Windows files systems get corrupted to the point of unusability - literally had to mount on another system and pick out pieces using track & sector recovery. (although haven't seen this on NTFS - yet, I have been told that you have to be very careful about taking an NTFS drive and mounting it on a different NT-based OS - not cool)"
I've had that on NTFS. Everytime the drive (the built-in hard disk) tried to mount under Windows, NTFS.SYS caused Windows XP to "Blue Screen" (yes it does still happen under XP, just a slightly different layout to Win95). Absolutely NO DOS/PC utility (PartitionMagic/Spinwrite etc.) could recover the data or read the drive correctly without hanging/crashing. I tried the drive externally on 3 other Windows-based PCs and they crashed because of NTFS.SYS
How did I get the data off of the drive?
I used Mac OS X (I dare say Linux would have done the job just as well), absolutely no problems, read the drive and partition table perfectly, which was more than the native machines/OSes could manage. - b7illsmith, on 10/12/2007, -2/+4@CBTF -
Sure, why not. I can include a start bar with auto-hide, but I decided to chuck it out completely. The thing about Linux is that I can customize it any way that I like.
I could make it simple...or I could use the spinning cube/wobbly windows stuff if I want. I could also have both; I could also run them both simultaniously and switch between them. I could also choose to not have a GUI at all.
I use Windows at work and I think it's fine. I use Linux at home and I think it's fun.
And really, what can be more important than fun? -
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