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124 Comments
- AssProphet, on 10/12/2007, -3/+42Um...you spelled "overlords" wrong.
- cday, on 10/12/2007, -10/+34Mark Shuttleworth is hardly "some guy".
- synystar, on 10/12/2007, -2/+21@wowbagger Brits say spelt, Americans say spelled. I say who cares.
- thombone, on 10/12/2007, -4/+21He's right. FIVE years between windows releases gives anyone time to catch up and surpass. Especially when that windows release people have been waiting for five years isn't much of an upgrade.
Please don't Digg me down. I'm not a fanboy of anything. It's just my opinion. I honestly am not excited about Vista, but I am excited about Linux for the simple reason that almost every day I hear something new and cool happening in the Linux world, and most of what I read about Windows is how frustrated people are with it. - bigtrouble77, on 10/12/2007, -11/+27Your comment is retarted. Shuttleworth wasn't spewing FUD. Ballmer insists on doing that everytime he opens his chubby mouth.
- deadbaby, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18I totally agree but I would preface it by saying Windows is going to remain very strong in the US for at least another decade. I think Linux's desktop growth is going to come from places like Germany, India, China, etc who simply have too many computers to be paying for per seat licenses. Let's face it, US consumers are spoiled. They don't want to learn new things unless they absolutely have to. As long as Windows is 'good enough' it will have a huge presence in the US. Again, I think the real threat to MS is the fact that in many parts of the world saving $100+ per PC on software costs is hugely compelling and is worth the learning curve. (and they'll get it into the schools so kids in those countries will grow up using Linux so it will be completely natural to them)
- shrewduser, on 10/12/2007, -0/+16in Europe and Australia linux is already huge, and gaining momentum, once U.S firms relise this is a competitive advantage they'll come around... don't you worry about that.
- atdigg, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17That's exactly why Linux should offer PPC support so people with old Mac will be able to have up-to-date software.
Also, isn't PS3 PPC? - AssProphet, on 10/12/2007, -4/+16@wowbagger
http://www.spellcheck.net/cgi-bin/spell.exe?action=CHECKWORD&string=spelled
Either are acceptable for past tense:
http://www.usingenglish.com/reference/irregular-verbs/spell.html - burke, on 10/12/2007, -13/+25"Retarted"
I don't even feel a need to comment on the ironing there. - anteyekon4myst, on 10/12/2007, -6/+17I'm an English Major and we have a way of settling this. The two parties beat each other into submission with dictionaries.
One time we walked into class and we found this girl unconscious. It turns out the guy she was dueling with heard wrong and beat her with an Encyclopedia. Britannica I think ,all 27 books. Just picked up the bookshelf and smacked her in the head. - macewan, on 10/12/2007, -2/+14:)
I've been playing with Beryl & Kiba-dock this evening - it really is wonderful - coldphoenix, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14umm...both forms of the word are widely accepted "spelt" and "spelled"
- stmiller, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14"apple dropped PPC support, its fading from the desktop..."
And that's where we need LINUX now. There's more of a need now, and that will be increasing. 1/4th of the kernel change logs are often for PPC Linux. It is far from being dead. - bobbybobington, on 10/12/2007, -15/+25I for one, welcome our new linux masters...
No, literally I do. - SmokedL, on 10/12/2007, -2/+12I've been running Beryl for a while now. Updating to the latest svn snapshot daily, taking part in discussions, and posting bug reports. It is indeed very nice.
I'd go so far as to say that it represent the first step in a paradigm shift in how you think about a computer interface.
Our brains are used to a 3d world, and are good at keeping track of things in a 3d world. I expect future interfaces to change greatly to take advantage of that fact. The current beryl implementation is limited to the sides of a cube, but I have little doubt that we will see full 3d immersion environments in the not too distant future. Not reality like environments, but environments that take full advantage of 3d.
It's about time for the next step in the evolution of computer interfaces. Linux is leading the way here. I like that :) - sinner0423, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10In my opinion, I should be a millionaire. Unfortunately, I'm not. See how that works?
"A matter of time" could mean a long time. Technology hasn't really followed one set pace. 5 years from now Vista could wind up being a giant failure, and could be replaced by Ubuntu on 50% of all desktops.
While I doubt this will happen, it could! This is what I think needs to happen in order for Linux to succeed :
1) Multimedia - Get the slate wiped clean, develop & maintain a new 2D/3D API, sticking with one main API for multimedia & gaming applications. Linux doesn't need 40 different standards , or 40 different ways to draw ***** on the screen. Standardize that *****. You want gaming done right on Linux? Give game developers something easier to work with, besides OpenGL. Preach all you want about how bad Direct X is and how Microsoft is evil - DX gets the job done. It's a starting point, which is a lot better than how Linux graphics are currently handled.
2) Design - When you've got 2,000 people working on *one* window manager, it tends to be glued & taped together, and the bureaucracy always gets in the way. OSS developers are great at making software, but I have serious doubts about their aesthetic tastes. Get someone who actually goes to school for the ***** to develop it, and it won't look like it was cobbled together by a 5 year old with a Crayon.
3) Organization - This is probably the biggest problem with Linux so far. There is too much going on for anyone to make any serious progress. Ubuntu is doing great, sure, but what about the rest of the OSS community? The "other guys" that program the stuff that Ubuntu puts in their distribution.
I shouldn't have to install 8 different packages to get a clock widget working, just because they decided to include X feature but it broke Y program and requires Z library to work, and also may require C toolkit to work with D window manager properly, if properly configured! This is reality with some Linux distributions, folks.
Whew.. /end rant. I really want to see Linux do great things, and possibly replace every single copy of Windows in the world, but a *LOT* needs to be done in order for this to happen. - wedderburn, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9with every iteration of ubuntu, getting linux on my pc or others pc's takes less and less work.
for a long time the linux destop was playing catch up and soon it will overtake, already non tech users can install run and config with minimal difficulty. - Dracos, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10I think exactly the opposite of Windows' fate.
Vista is late, bloated (despite the lack of a compelling set of new features), differently insecure than any windows since 3.0 (pre-networking capable days), and has insane pricing stratification.
The moment one informed CIO at a F500 company decides to compare TCO between Windows and Linux for themselves, and realizes that MS and all the consultant vendors who push it are just lining their pockets, Linux will spread through the business world like wildfire. Cities (Munich, Chicago) are already doing it, the corporate bean counters can't be that far behind.
Especially if MS starts moving toward a subscription based license model, like many suspect.
Vista will go nowhere in the business world because it's almost a technological non-event. Business buyers over the past 20 years are what made MS what it is, and now Vista's adoption rate rests on how many gamers want to upgrade their hardware for DirectX 10. MS has reversed their flow of influence.
Vista will churn along for a few years, spreading slowly (slower than XP did) with new PC sales. Meanwhile, the Linux desktop continues to get better, maintains it's price point (Free), and starts gaining commercial software products (games, then other mundane stuff like Quicken). By the time the next version of Windows is ready, people really won't care.
So, the next decade will bring about the end of the Windows monopoly. Especially if MS picks a patent fight and gets their clock cleaned by IBM. Either way, consider how arrogant MS was 10 years ago versus how arrogant they are now, then extrapolate that another 10 years. They are pricing, bullying, and non-innovating themselves out of the market in which they make the bulk of their money. - Ademan, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9Uh, Shuttleworth went into space, so yeah "just some guy". I mean going into space isn't nearly as exclusive as it used to be, but its not like some open market or something, its still a very select few.
- synystar, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9As much as I think The Gimp is a great program .. I still think that the only thing holding Linux back right now is Adobe. Give me a product that has all the features of CS2 on Linux and I would never use Windows.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11You can't compete with free. Face it, people don't want to pay for anything, especially software. That's why bittorrent is so popular.
- mabhatter, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8exactly, in 5 years Linux and Gnome/KDE has basically caught up with XP in terms of pure technical specs. KDE is arguably more feature-complete than Windows XP, with Gnome somewhere just behind. Note, I'll qualify that as "usability", not "desktop ready". To be "desktop ready" requires all those "windows replacement" things, but the underlying tech in Linux is un-arguably caught up and surpassed Windows. Vista is mildly ahead.. only because it's not actually released for everybody to see what they got. Vista will be pretty much "glued to the floor" from this point on, for at least 2 years... in that time even the Linux hackers will pass it's features. Grabbing market share/mind share will take longer, but with the Vista monster a known quantity, it's no longer a matter of will Linux "beat" Windows, but when will the public and ISVs figure out that Linux is already Window's equal, and Apple is 2-3 years ahead.
Of course, now it's time for "Linux" to stop copying and start real innovation... like all those things Microsoft was going to put in Vista!!! Linux has the ability to put features like database file systems, and pervasive applications into the distros in ways that MS can't do without sacrificing their cash cows, and apple is already doing. It was the one thing that BeOS had back in 1999, but the Be model sacrificed individual applications for overall system integration... that scared off the ISVs in a big huge way! The future is "build your own app" where the OS glues the best components together on the system, theres' not discrete apps, they are all interconnected. - shrewduser, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8not 100% correct... linux gets 100's of new features every day... you don't need to install them all of coarse...
but linux is lighter... - shrewduser, on 10/12/2007, -3/+10apple dropped PPC support, its fading from the desktop, and with it goes ubuntu support...
either way dropping ppc isn't going to stop widespread adoption...
you should still be able to use ubuntu on ppc if you don't mind compiling... :) - slugicide, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Why's that?
- cphuntington97, on 10/12/2007, -4/+11I believe Mark is right and here is why:
Every commercial OS in the world is going to have to keep adding "features" to keep people buying upgrades. This means perpetual feature creep; perpetually more memory, more processing power, etc.
Linux doesn't have need this incentive so it can concentrate on becoming light and fast. - bluesdealer, on 10/12/2007, -0/+6Except that Linux enthusiasts aren't brand name junkies. Linux is open and doesn't cost a cent. It's the only way for computer users to really be independent of either the Microsoft or Apple corporations.
- TimTim, on 10/12/2007, -1/+6Linux domination should be obvious to anyone who has been keeping up with technology news. If you aren't learning your way around Linux or at least trying a distro then you are on the trailing edge. Linux is everywhere: Wiis, palms, xboxs, Macs, embedded systems, etc... "just a matter of time".
For those still not convinced - download a copy of Slax, burn a CD and slap it in your parent's system and let them have a go! They will be able to use common applications just as easily as on a Mac or Windows. Get off your lazy ass and give it a try! No more lies, no more FUD, no more excuses! Find out why Ballmer is so afraid of it! - stmiller, on 10/12/2007, -2/+7^You missed his point by a mile.
- loconet, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4@JQP123
Just cost? You obviously haven't looked at/used Linux closely.
How about about choice, options, freedom, and the proven stability that Linux provides.
It is not for nothing that companies such as IBM and Google place most of their business in the hands of Linux, and thanks to how oss works, they are ultimately really are placing it in on their own hands! They control their own business, not another entity driven by their own financial interests.
- I/Organizations don't have to depend on MS to fix/adjust something deep in the programs.
- I/Organizations are not locked to a single vendor, proprietary unstable and greedy de facto standards.
- I/Organizations get to use a variety of high end technology with little or no restrictions (ie: think *xgl, the many high performance file systems, the possibility of Sun releasing OpenSolaris under the GPL, etc)
- I/Organizations don't have to worry about RIAA/MPAA greasing MS to cripple the multimedia functionality of my computer.
- I/Organizations don't have to worry about what other crazy usage restriction on my own machine MS will think of next
- Then there is the whole argument that, while Linux may still be facing some problems for average desktop users, at its core, it was designed from the start, as a solid piece of software (think proven decades of UNIX "way of doing things").
I hope you are not in charge of technology decisions in your organization (if you work in the field). because If all you see in Linux is its cost advantage, then you my friend are in the wrong field and I would be wary of doing any business with you. - randomc0de, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4I have an Xbox. It runs Linux. Microsoft lost money on their sale of it. Your point?
- mabhatter, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4for Linux or Apple to truly gain market share, users need to be convinced to work in open standards, so any application can perform their basic work. As long as users use proprietary data sets, other systems will be chasing the tail never able to catch up. The method has to be to find a way to change the game.. that's how you win.. but however OSS changes the game, it has to be 10x better and cooler and cheaper than what people use now, so they can justify putting their old ways on the shelf. Linux and Apple aren't winning in leaps because they're only as good or better... they have to be wildly better... enough to make you drop what you're doing and not go back!
- JQP123, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"You can't compete with free."
Uhhh, yes you can. For proof, just look at the multi-billion dollar market for bottled water. - BrainInAJar, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4Quite aside from the desktop, Shuttleworth seems to want to creep in on the enterprise stage, where POWER is a real big contender, especially for compute bound tasks
Given, OpenSolaris'll run on that too soon enough, but there have you - SmokedL, on 10/12/2007, -0/+4"If Wine were perfect there would be little to no incentive to develop native Linux applications."
Why in the world would that be the case? You may as well claim that there is no incentive to develop in anything but Java because the applications work on all platforms that support Java. There are a large number of advantages to native applications.
Currently we have a catch 22 situation, where people are waiting for companies such as Adobe and others to support Linux, while the companies waits for people to adopt Linux before they support it. Wine can fix that.
I personally know a number of people that have considered switching to Linux, but did not. Almost all of them decided not to because they were dependent on applications only available for windows or OSX. Having Wine work close to perfectly would enable a huge new group of individuals and companies to switch over, that simply cannot otherwise due to applications that must be supported. - stmiller, on 10/12/2007, -1/+5"Really? I can't think of one free, mainstream product that has a dominant market share..."
Apache is the leading webserver by far.
http://news.netcraft.com/archives/web_server_survey.html
Depending on who you ask, Linux has a strong hold of the server world. Not just webservers, but corporate data servers for many major corporations, and US gov't. I know that a corporate Redhat subscription doesn't translate to '100% free in cost' like you are probably saying, but, well in the server world Linux has some dominance. And far different licenses from any MS alternative. - slugicide, on 10/12/2007, -1/+4And yet your "#1" story right now is about being able to run Linux on the Wii... Tool.
- wedderburn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3ventrilo 2.3 has a silver rating by users of wine(lets you use windows apps in linux)
http://appdb.winehq.org/appview.php?iVersionId=3936 for the how-to etc - whatthehell, on 10/12/2007, -7/+10http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Education
- GMorgan, on 10/12/2007, -0/+3Never is a long time for something that will always exist.
- stmiller, on 10/12/2007, -8/+11https://wiki.ubuntu.com/PowerPCReview
If Shuttleworth wants widespread adoption, I wish he would reconsider dropping PPC Ubuntu Linux. - wedderburn, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2its true Disney uses wine+photoshop and I'm sure theres alot more studio's that would happily save costs and use linux.
plus it would make a nice choice gimps well and good but having the choice between adobe photoshop and the gimp would be great. - dgh1973, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2"I've never heard of him. And I keep up on tech news. Really, he is "some guy" to most people."
Reading the Microsoft Technet website doesn't count.
If you've heard of Ubuntu then you have heard of Mark Shuttleworth (or at least his work). - EtherGnat, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2It's not ready for widespread desktop use.
/sorry, could resist. Plus I accidentally replied here and can't delete the comment. - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2They've been saying this for years now.
- Dracos, on 10/12/2007, -0/+2You're absolutely right. The main thing that keeps me on Windows is Photoshop. GIMP is a powerful tool, but its main drawback is the lack of color space support (CMYK, pantone, etc). Sure you can do graphics for the Internets fine with GIMP, but you can't do print work.
Here's hoping Adobe has structured it's latest products in such a way that it would be easy to port the entire suite from OSX to GTK or Qt. And that they're willing to do it. -
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