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- advix, on 01/08/2009, -2/+41IMO every piece of tux based machine counts. Machines without command line will helps to raise linux desktop market share too. C'mon. For power user, this couldn't be a problem at all. I remember the first of those linux based Acer laptops, preinstalled with Linpus Linux without X. Acer knows how to target power users :)
- 3242130193, on 01/08/2009, -1/+35So what, just nerf it and install Debian*!
In any case, power users represent such a small demographic of the computer market (flamebait: otherwise we would have so many windows machines), I doubt that this will make a huge influence on their sales, if at all. In fact, it'll probably not make a difference at all - if you're interested in using CLI, you'd probably going to install your own distro anyways.
*may be substituted with distro of choice
By the way, I wonder what WM/DE it's based on - sigmaman2, on 01/08/2009, -1/+29This probably won't silence the "Linux is hard because you have to learn command line" crowd, but it looks like HP thinks they are wrong.
Still, I'd say that a Linux system without command line access is limited, almost to the point of being crippled. - Defiant001, on 01/09/2009, -1/+22You're doing it wrong HP!
Hide it from the users who wouldn't know how to use it, but make it so the power users can get to it at least - ptFoe, on 01/08/2009, -1/+15unless they are planning to make money on support this is pointless, because now if user has a problem with the laptop they cannot ask someone with Linux knowledge for help. The command line helps you do complex procedures in one line.
- diemunkiesdie, on 01/09/2009, -0/+13The CLI is probably still there, they just didnt put a link in the GUI for access to the CLI. You don't want your average user to accidentally click on the link for CLI and freak out that they just ruined heir machine! The CLI is probably not "disabled" per se, just hidden.
- bacon_skoda, on 01/09/2009, -2/+12so, you don't know about those pictures of your mom online then.
- sepelester, on 01/09/2009, -0/+10Ehm, crippled? And how difficult would that be to undo? laugh.
- bigsteve, on 01/09/2009, -0/+10True. Though I like the idea of buying a Linux machine from someone like HP. It sends a message that there is a demand for such a thing, and allows me to buy a machine without paying the Windows tax. Even if "command line" wasn't disabled, I'd still probably blow it all away and start from scratch with an install because I'm a control freak like that.
- theaceoffire, on 01/09/2009, -0/+9You don't have to, but its fun to.
Command line frees you from menus, obscure buttons, etc, and allows you to quickly do lots of things at one time.
Some people really appreciate that option. - smotpoker, on 01/09/2009, -1/+9No, he's saying "a non-crippled OS has a decent command line available".
Telling people they have to "learn the commandline" to use it *or* Linux is like telling new/casual drivers that they have to become a mechanic to drive or maintain their car. It ignores the fact that it's pretty trivial to copy (and paste) what they need from a reliable source and there are mechanics (GUI utilities) available if you need them.
Linux provides you with the tools, fluids, tires, manuals and the mechanics. Windows only give you the mechanics. Whenever your mechanics can't/don't do the job for some reason you are relatively screwed. - enantiodromia, on 01/09/2009, -0/+8a break down of who thinks this is a good idea:
Noobs: 100%
Noobs, who think they are Sysadmins: 0%
Sysadmins: 100% - Vinvin, on 01/09/2009, -0/+8...and of protecting the user from the user.
- martalli, on 01/09/2009, -0/+7Does <ctrl>-<alt>-<F1> still work for getting to the CLI? I suppose that with a modicum of effort, you could install xterm and go from there. Another alternative would be to simply install your favorite distro, as I am sure many digg.com/linux_unix readers may have already done.
- inactive, on 01/09/2009, -2/+9If you disable the command line, the average user, who reads about commands, but fails to understand completely, can not try them and bork their system
It is HP's way of protecting themselves from the user, in reality. - eldridgea, on 01/09/2009, -0/+7I know and I think it has, but *I* still want to use it.
If it's not in the GUI because they don't want my grandma to see it - fine. I agree.
But at least give me the *option*. You are taking away a powerful tool without asking.
Even if it's just a note in the manual saying press Ctrl-Alt-Shift-Meta-F7 to access CLI, I'd be OK as long as I could *do* it. - readme, on 01/09/2009, -2/+9What's the big deal here, I don't get it? These netbooks are meant to be appliances for people to surf the web with and write emails, not hardcore Linux boxes. Any "power user" worth their salt is just going to blow away the standard install with their own flavor of Linux anyway.
My EEE PC 901 didn't have a command line enabled by default either IIRC, but I used the gimped Xandros desktop install for all of 15 minutes before blowing it away for Ubuntu 8.10. - bacon_skoda, on 01/09/2009, -1/+8why not use machine code?
- cesclaveria, on 01/09/2009, -0/+7posting from w3m i guess
- Vinvin, on 01/09/2009, -4/+10<3 this move. The best thing is that this forces people that write help guides for this machine *need* to provide graphical instructions. All those internet tutorials (which are on of the strongs points) keep telling people to use the CLI when you can do it graphically, and while that works as well, it scares people and doesn't improve the reputation.
Also, I can imagine this very well just referring to there not being a menu entry for the terminal - you'll probably be able to press Alt+F2 and run, say, gnome-terminal. - inactive, on 01/09/2009, -0/+6Okay, I can understand making Linux more user friendly for the computer illiterate crowd, but disabling the command line entirely? That seems rather ridiculous. Leave it there for those who wish to use it, even if you hide it somehow from the average user so they don't start mucking around with stuff they don't know about.
HP has been making a lot of crap lately (I use the term "lately" loosely). Like their touch screen computer. Sounds innovative at first, but in practice it would be an extreme chore. I for one wouldn't want to hold my arm up for hours performing simple tasks that a mere click or slight movement with a mouse could easily take care of. I'm sure it probably has the option of using a mouse too, but that kind of defeats the point of making it touch screen in the first place. Of course, it's going after the crowd who will look at it and go "Wow that looks neat!" and make an impulse buy because it's different and "cool". - MattBD, on 01/09/2009, -0/+6Uh, no it hasn't. OS X also has the bash shell, but you don't hear too many people saying "Get rid of bash, it's too hard to use!".
However, the fact that they're even contemplating this shows that you don't need to use the command line to use Linux. - inc595, on 01/09/2009, -0/+5even windows has a command line interface. while taking the focus away from the CLI is not bad crippling the ability to use it is just weird. There is probably some key combo you need to do to access this within the gui or maybe you need to ssh in locally.
- Kingoftherings, on 01/09/2009, -2/+7CLI is easier to use in a tutorial. I'd rather copy and paste some text into my terminal, than search around for an obscure button. People need to realize this. I couldn't tell you how many times I've had to help people search for a button.
- cawpin, on 01/09/2009, -3/+8And how do you test if a Windows machine has a basic connection to the web? You open a command line window and ping yahoo.com or google.com to check name resolution. The command line is essential on any computer.
- bigsteve, on 01/09/2009, -0/+5I don't think what you first said was flamebait. The point you made is something we should all keep in mind, yet so few of us on this site tend to do. Remember, we are the minority.
We also must remember that we are the knowledge leaders for our families and communities, and people look up to us for guidance and for what we know. We need to keep scope in mind. - UselessTrivia, on 01/09/2009, -0/+5Of course it does, because then they don't have to worry about people breaking it accidentally, which lowers their support costs.
Jerks. - Kingoftherings, on 01/09/2009, -0/+4I grew up on Windows 98, and I was 7 or 8 at the time. I didn't really get deep into compuers until a couple years after XP came out, and I don't have a problem using a command line.
- ethamajin, on 01/09/2009, -0/+4Anyone who would want to use Linux to its full potential is much better off using another distro anyway. I think HP is marketing this as more of a console than a computer, in the sense of 'what you see is what you get'. Starting at $329, they can give me whatever software they want.
- enantiodromia, on 01/09/2009, -0/+4every kid with an Ubuntu machine thinks he is a power user. just look at these comments.
- Aleman360, on 01/09/2009, -5/+9Not all of us grew up with Commodore 64s. Nice and fully functional GUIs are essential for mainstream Linux adoption.
- directrix13, on 01/09/2009, -0/+4A Linux system doesn't need a command line just like Windows doesn't need a command line. You can do extra stuff with it, but you can do most everything you need without it.
- inactive, on 01/09/2009, -1/+5umm...they could just keep it out of plain view, like cmd in windows.
This is the auto equivalent of welding shut the hood so you can't change the oil yourself. - freeridstylee, on 01/09/2009, -1/+5I don't know why they couldn't just make it really hard to get to.
- MattBD, on 01/09/2009, -0/+4That has to be an oversight. Under Overview it says OpenOffice, so I reckon there must be a Windows version that comes with Works and they just copied some of the details over.
Don't know about you, but I can't see Microsoft releasing software for Linux any time soon. - Stonekeeper, on 01/09/2009, -1/+4I've been saying for ages: People want appliances, not "computers". This is a great move IMHO. Now if only the linux community got it's ass into gear and got a "powered by Linux" brand sticker, we should see the awareness of linux spread!
EDIT: I really hope HP are smart enough to opensource the UI. They'd get a bucket load of respect and a ton of coders to help them. - sigmaman2, on 01/09/2009, -1/+4And where would the linux programmers fix those problems?
From the Command Line!
The CLI is not a sign of complexity. It's actually a sign of power. Without the CLI, those "problems with the gui" you mention would not be fixable at all. Just because you can't play Flash games or view mpegs does not mean that the CLI is worthless.
Besides, the GUI interface was originally programmed from, yep, you guessed it, the command line/text interface. - nybble41, on 01/09/2009, -0/+3Actually, you can get to the command line under the default Xandros desktop via a keyboard shortcut; it isn't disabled, just hidden. I think the shortcut is either Ctrl+Alt+T or Ctrl+Shift+T.
- z00k, on 01/10/2009, -0/+3ASCII.
- mooninite, on 01/09/2009, -0/+3Are you stupid? My 8 ball says probably.
How is this article proof that HP is going to force Linux developers, such as myself, to change anything? You have no idea of the concept of the open source community do you? - mmgm, on 01/09/2009, -0/+3How exactly does one disable the CLI on linux? You can't just rm /bin/bash, can you?
- Steeeeve1, on 01/09/2009, -0/+3Don't worry guys all you have to do to enable the command line is this:
sudo apt-get.... Oh hell - kelchm, on 01/09/2009, -0/+3Stupid alarmist article.
This really isn't a problem for anyone what knows what they are doing. - inactive, on 01/09/2009, -1/+4For those who care not to RTFM
- atchon, on 01/09/2009, -0/+3If you know enough to need to command line you know enough to figure out how to enable/reinstall it. This is designed for simplicity as a device to look at pictures, read email, browse the web. What exactly do you plan on doing even if you have the command line from what I understand you are somewhat stuck in the interface they give, so by the time you reinstall all the things you need to have an actual linux distro you may as well have just wiped it and installed your distro of choice from the beginning.
This is a pretty knee jerk reaction, as other netbooks have been similarly crippled. - wonderbriefs, on 01/10/2009, -0/+3I think the idea is to motivate the Linux community to come up with solutions that every-day people will understand, not just people with advanced Linux knowledge.
- wonderbriefs, on 01/10/2009, -0/+3While the terminal may be quicker in the long run, it intimidates the hell out of your mom. If you believe in the idea of everyday people using Linux on their desktop then you need a GUI for everything.
- nybble41, on 01/09/2009, -0/+3You can't remove the shell because it's required by scripts, but you can remove all the virtual terminal programs (e.g. xterm) and the text consoles (Ctrl+Alt+Fn).
For actual embedded systems, it's possible to remove everything but /sbin/init (or equivalent) so long as it's statically compiled. The rest is customary to provide a full operating environment, and required for various preexisting software, but isn't required by the Linux kernel. - buddyw, on 01/09/2009, -0/+3<Ctrl+ z>
- Stonekeeper, on 01/09/2009, -0/+3A video of the nice loooking UI:
http://blip.tv/play/_U_WrSXbbg -
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