What is Digg?377 Comments
- BrianR, on 10/12/2007, -11/+57Ubuntu for one is REALLY ready for the desktop. There are a lot of other Linux distros with easy to use applications.
- inactive, on 10/13/2007, -8/+46"Linux Not Ready for the Desktop" because Michael Gartenberg works for Microsoft.
http://www.techcrunch.com/2007/02/15/microsoft-hir ... - yunus, on 10/12/2007, -1/+35Some people say Windows is not ready for the desktop. This argument will never die. In the end choice is good.
- threeandout, on 10/12/2007, -7/+36It's ready for my desktop.
- MWeather, on 10/12/2007, -5/+30Try installing XP on a SATA drive that XP doesn't have the driver for. Linux is easy by comparison.
- mlmhenry, on 10/13/2007, -14/+38I agree.
- keyo, on 10/12/2007, -8/+30For me the availability of games and windows apps (without wine/vm) is a huge factor. Unfortunatly it keeps me on dual boot. With directX10 games coming out any new computer I buy will unfortunaly be running windows most of the time, but I certainly won't "buy" vista.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -25/+45The next person who posts a "linux is ready for the desktop" story deserves to be killed.
I'm not even joking. - CypherXero, on 10/12/2007, -10/+30It's not that Linux isn't ready for the desktop, but most people aren't ready for Linux. They're too far down the Microsoft rabbit hole.
- 10001110101, on 10/12/2007, -7/+27FTA: "What's most fascinating to me is that members of the public have no clue that they're not using Windows."
Think about it for a sec. Most non-techy people DON'T know anything about computers. It's a magic box that they can print pictures and play games on. To put it another way, would these members of the public be tech-savvy enough to know when they ARE using Windows?
Yah, 40000 is a nice big number.. But you're only counting logins.. How many UNIQUE users were there in that past year? - inactive, on 10/12/2007, -1/+19which is easy, and the new version of X out right now has a automatic failsafe mode, that reverts to a vesa driver i think, which gives high res
Heres your list of actions to make Windows never boot again:
1) install windows
2) change your motherboard or harddrive controller - or move your harddrive to another machine
windows will never boot again, no console, no possibility to change drivers from console, just bluescreen crashes on boot - sirhomer, on 10/12/2007, -3/+20Screenshots or it didn't happen
- sirhomer, on 10/12/2007, -4/+21Oh crap, so those people I was talking to from Red Hat over the phone don't exist?
- VinceNoir, on 10/12/2007, -2/+18True about whether or not people know that they are using Windows or not. Back when I started in technical support for a municipal library system, I was amazed when I would ask the simple question: "Is your PC running Windows NT4 or NT 3.51"? and I would get a "Huh" from the user. So I changed it to, "Do you have a button on the bottom left of your screen that says 'Start' or do you have a window or icon on your screen labelled 'Program Manager'"? That helped a bit. But over the years I've come to a realization. "User friendly" is dead. It's something that meant something at one time and one time only: Apple Macintosh between 1984 through MacOS 7. Once computers were introduced to network applications, user friendly disappeared forever. Some examples:
1. Can most users distinguish between a local application and a web site? Not from what I've seen. I've dealt with many many users (even friends and relatives who I've explained things to) who think that Google's search engine is an application on their PC. When I moved my folks from Windows to Linux (customized RedHat 9 a few years back and now they're on Gentoo 2006.1) the first question I got from both of them was, "Will you be able to install Google and Hotmail on the Linux machine"?
2. An offshoot of the above is whether or not a user knows what a web browser is. Where I work we have a web mail system and I provide support for the back end. But sometimes I get user calls about a problem with mail because no one else in my department wants to deal with it. Almost every time that I ask the user whether they're using "webmail" or a "mail program" (I've stopped saying 'mail client' because that's beyond most users) they say, "Yeah I'm using a mail program". So I probe a little deeper and nine times out of ten it turns out the "mail program" is Internet Explorer. Don't even bother to ask a user what web browser they're using. They say, "A what"? most of the time.
3. Add to this the compounding problem of multiple network applications that people could run on their PCs and you really have a problem where it's difficult for them to put their finger on where their data actually exists. Think about the number of people who want to "download Youtube". Or the people who assume that if they've listened to a song from the net, it's now on their PC. Or... people who use P2P without realizing that they're also sharing their downloads with other people. This is the death of User Friendly in a big way. And it's never going to come back unless we find a way to educate end users on the particulars of local and remote applications and data. (fat chance)
4. Besides the network applications, there's also "de facto" standards. My father in-law calls his copy of Wordperfect, "Microsoft Word". If I were to move him to OpenOffice, it would be the same thing. (Note: I'm not making fun of him. He has no reason to know or care what the difference is since all he really wants to do is write his memoirs and I don't blame him one bit.)
Computers aren't getting easier. They're getting complex in ways that were friendly once, but are now an obstacle. Think of it like the travesty that is the modern telephone industry vs. the heaven that we had when Ma Bell was a monopoly. Back then, the phones "just worked". If something didn't work, you could call the local Bell office and they'd come out and fix it quickly, efficiently and successfully. You weren't asked a million questions to make sure that it's not your fault. You didn't have to navigate a phone tree that doesn't have any options that match your situation and eventually routes you to voicemail, drops your call and says a friendly "goodbye" or at best gets you to a rude and surly tech who asks you the million questions mentioned before. Back then, the systems were simpler and offered fewer features, but they worked and they worked well. Maybe too well. To the point that these businesses felt they weren't getting as much money as they could if they could keep you on a treadmill of upgrades. Today, you have your "choice" of a handful of phone service providers and the number of features is staggering. But, if you buy completely into one of them, you have to forfeit the the functionality of the others. Or in some cases you wind up with something that is incompatible with a few of the others that your family or friends may have bought into. (And don't even talk to me about the new at&t. It's the raped dead husk of what once was.) But think about this... what use is all the extra functionality if the basic service (making a goddamned phone call) only works about 95% of the time and when it does the quality pales in comparison to the old style analog phones? I don't want to take pictures with my phone! I don't want to text message people! I don't want a ton of ring tones that ALL SUCK! I want my damned phone call to stay connected. I want to know that people can call me and actually reach me. And above all, when they call me I want to know that they can hear me instead of me having to constantly say, "can you hear me now" like that idiot on TV. I don't want the quality of my call to drop because my kid decided to download a new game demo from the internet. I don't want my phone to be "hackable" by spammers, phishers and other criminals.
Now all of that anti-phone business rant has a point. It all applies EXACTLY the same to computers. And it's exactly why Joe "non-tech" is never going to be able to deal with them. They're NOT easy to use! The individual layers might be somewhat easy to use, but when you have to deal with three or more layers to get something done, that's when you lose Joe "non-tech". And it's unavoidable today that you have three or more layers for everything you do:
Web browsing ("The Internet" in non-tech speak):
What kind of connection do you have to the internet? DSL? Cable? U-verse? FioS? Dial-up? Cellular? Satellite? WiFi from your neighbor?
What OS are you using? Windows? MacOS? PDA with WiFi? Other?
What web browser are you using? IE? Firefox? Opera? Safari? Konqueror? Epiphany? Lynx? ELinks? Other?
Do you have all the needed plugins? Windows Media Player? RealPlayer? Flash? Quicktime? MPlayer? Xine? VLC? Java? Adobe Acrobat Reader? Evince? Various image viewers? Other?
Do you have all the needed codecs for media plugins? "MP3"? MPEG4? MPEG2? Quicktime? Ogg?
It's easy to see with just that simple example that it's FAR TOO complex for the non-technical people to ever understand. - hexydes, on 10/12/2007, -2/+17So don't support companies that develop Windows-only games. Support companies like id and Epic, who make native Linux clients for their games. Say what you want, but money talks. If you use Linux, but dual-boot Windows, and then buy games that run only on Windows, these companies will see that Windows is where the money is at. If they start seeing companies that support cross-platforms in their software are the ones making money, they will have to evaluate why they aren't making, and that will hopefully be one conclusion they draw.
- Tyr7BE, on 10/12/2007, -3/+17When was the last time you used OOo? If this was 2001 I'd agree with you, but since the early 2.x days it's been more or less flawless. I've been using it in an office where a lot of others use MS Word for a while now and have had no issues whatsoever.
- oakhilltop, on 10/12/2007, -4/+18That's strange. My wife and son, who had always used windows, just asked me to make the computer default to linux at boot time. Because they almost always use linux now. I guess I'll have to tell them that linux just isn't ready for them to use, even though they like it better.
- MWeather, on 10/12/2007, -1/+15Try opening an Office 2007 document in Office XP. The average user isn't going to know how to fix that either.
- SteveMax, on 10/12/2007, -0/+14On Linux you click on that small icon that tells you there are updates (just like on Windows or OS X, actually). And it updates not only the OS, but every application you have, no matter who developed it (This doesn't happen on Windows or OS X).
- hexydes, on 10/12/2007, -3/+16The community.
Including proprietary drivers when absolutely necessary.
Including automated help for installing codecs.
Crashing to VESA mode rather than a CLI (coming in two weeks).
Etc. Canonical just does a really good job of keeping the average desktop user in much of the heart of their concerns, whereas other distros stray from that idea. - kamiller, on 10/12/2007, -0/+13I'm running Ubuntu 7.0.4 and I have not had to use the command line to install ANY application.
- hex2bush, on 10/13/2007, -2/+15"Ubuntu for one is REALLY ready for the desktop"
I see this a lot. I'm a Fedora guy - Once was a Slackware guy.
I find Fedora's (7) Desktop and even RH8's desktop were quite nice - (GNOME). I hear the KDE guys say it's better, but I prefer GNOME.
Anyway, what makes Ubuntu's so much better as a desktop Linux than the others? - tcpip4lyfe, on 10/12/2007, -5/+18You have no idea what you're talking about.
- earlycj5, on 10/14/2007, -0/+12Huh? He said Wine, he didn't say he was using a VM. So no, he's not using another OS.
- earlycj5, on 10/12/2007, -1/+13That doesn't mean it's not ready for the desktop. That just means it's not ready for the average user to install it. You're not making a fair assessment here. If the user gets the computer and all those issues are addressed the question is, can they use it? You missed that point apparently.
- dasunst3r, on 10/12/2007, -0/+12Or if you're lucky, it'll make you activate again.
- earlycj5, on 10/12/2007, -3/+15Err, why yes. That IS the point. It IS ready for the desktop. No one said anything about installing it. Joe Sixpack didn't download and install Windows either.
- norman619, on 10/13/2007, -8/+20I'm an IT pro and have tried to make the jump to Linux as my primary OS. After a couple days I had to go back. Sure you can install Linux pretty easily. Sure the various GUIs available for it are much like any other GUI driven OS. The problem is when you want to do some work with it or something fun. The open source offerings for the type of apps I use are substandard. They lack the functionality I need to get things done in a timely manner. Then we have the other big use of a computer. Video games. Video game vendors are not porting the games everyone wants to play over to Linux. This is a HUGE problem for people like me who enjoy all the new video games. MS isn't helping much with their DX10 exclusivity. While it's not a big deal now it will be a big deal in a year or so when most games will be supporting DX10. No one is saying Linux sux. It sure as hell does not suck. I use it on my file server and firewall box. But for the average user Linux is not a real option. The biggest obstacle Linux has is software support. Only if/when the software vendors who produce the applications most people use decide to support Linux will Linux truly be ready for the home desktop.
- zwaldowski, on 10/12/2007, -0/+11When was the last time you used Linux?
- bebopredux, on 10/12/2007, -5/+16The proper question these days should be "Windows not ready for desktop?"
Read Jim Louderback's column on his Vista hassles. I have a friend who has re-installed Vista 5 times in 3 months! Searching for compatible drivers is now easier on Linux that Vista. Let's see, no adware, no malware, no trojans, no need for anti-spyware/anti-virus programs eating up resources. No need to buy endless software to merely protect a porous system OS from attack. Oh.....and no need to pony upwards of $400 for an OS!!
Ubuntu 7.10 next week folks, hence the article above. MS wants to sabotage Linux and more importantly, take the scrutiny off of them. I haven't so much as touched Windows in 5 years now. Sabayon 3.4/Ubunutu Gutsy Beta and OSX are in my home and I have need of nothing. THAT irks Young Frankenstein Ballmer and Big Borg Bill to no end and I, for one, couldn't be happier. - hex2bush, on 10/12/2007, -3/+14Linux is ready for the desktop.
I'm feeling depressed and a little suicidal. I least if you kill me, my wife will get some $$$ from insurance. - AnarkeIncarnate, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10go to their site??? Most decent distros just have you update the packages automagically. You are stuck in the wrong mindset, my friend.
- arjie, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Drivers?! Don't use technical jargon on me man. I just installed Ubuntu and didn't need to install any 'drivers', things just work. Jesus, windows users, always talking in technical terms.
- argoff, on 10/12/2007, -1/+11Some advice. Don't worry about the *****. Back in 98 I tried to tell my bosses that SCO was dying and that Linux was getting ready to take over the server space. They literally laughed loudly in my face and said that Linux was a toy OS not fit for the enterprise and will never be enterprise quality like SCO. I'm serious. You can't make this stuff up!
If they start trying to push the windows *****, don't even fight it. Just try and find another place to work. Chances are that their stupidity will lead them into the ditch soon enough anyhow. - dgh1973, on 10/12/2007, -0/+10It's totally ready, the things holding it back at this point aren't user acceptance though... it's market dominance by another product. End of story.
All of the problems anyone could say about it not working would be fixed within a year or two (less most likely) in a parallel universe where people HAD to write code for it. Companies feel they have to write code for windows so they do... making this a self maintaining monopoly that will be tough to break. - stupidbrowner, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10I fully agree that does occasionally happen, but have you ever moved between different versions of MS Office? The same bloody thing happens!
- next, on 10/12/2007, -0/+9Actually, applications can be installed from one of two GUIs. There's a general one with categories of useful tools available in the Applications menu, or an advanced one for searching through applications, called Synaptic, in the System menu. Drivers are downloaded and installed automatically with updates, which can be set to download automatically in the background as well.
Alternatively, downloads like Skype that are packaged in a .deb are just like a Windows installer, but are actually quicker and easier.
Further, Canonical provides support for Ubuntu for a modest price when you buy a new Dell machine with Ubuntu ($50 or so I think?). But honestly, family always looks for help from me or someone else in our family. My grandpa got absolutely nowhere the last time he tried to call Gateway or Dell for support. He could barely understand the CSR on the phone, became frustrated, and hung up. Several times.
This is particularly relevant as more power users move to the Linux world, meaning that if grandpa wants support for his computer, he's losing his Windows-lifeline. We're all moving. ;P - TheHydrogens, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11Installing new applications is not that difficult... go to your package manager, search for what you want, click it and it installs.... or go to a website, download the file, double click it.
If you are really that concerned with having somebody to call, you could always pay for support. I'm sure you could pay for support for plenty long enough to get the hang of things with the money you would have otherwise spent on non-free software.
.... is there really a number you can call at Microsoft for support? I was unaware of this if so. - totorototoro, on 10/13/2007, -1/+10Gartenberg quit Microsoft about a month later.
http://blogs.zdnet.com/microsoft/?p=306
Try to keep up :p - sirhomer, on 10/12/2007, -1/+10Nuh uh. X now fallbacks to VESA when it can't find a valid driver.
- VinceNoir, on 10/12/2007, -2/+11You're a perfect example of the problem with man of the members of the Digg audience: short attention span, low intellect, and no patience for reading. This is why I constantly talk about Digg missing the point of community. Slashdot excelled at this and it is sorely missed since Slashdot is now somewhat of a Ghost town. Apparently you didn't agree with what I wrote for some reason. But did you bother to outline your objections so we could dialog? No. Instead you resorted to the typical defense of a Digger who despises thinking about things: the joke at the poster's expense. This is typical here when someone posts something that is well thought out and makes a real point. I'm going to give you a second chance which I know you will fail to take me up on. Go ahead and tell me why you disagree with what I wrote. If you didn't read it, then you had no right to comment. If you did read it and responded with the joke response, then you failed at the art of conversation. You can choose to refute what I stated above, or... you can shut the ***** up and ***** your ass with a hot soldering iron for my pleasure. The choice is yours.
- AlmostEvil, on 10/12/2007, -1/+9It all comes down to what it will be used for. If you're wanting to do professional dtp, photography, prepress work etc then it's out of the question. You will have to use windows or a mac. The same with games, the support isn't there.
If however it's just being used for email, web browsing and basic word processing (office type stuff) then it's perfectly fine, same with servers too. (servers being Linux's biggest strongpoint, its server support is outstanding.. I use a Linux fileserver at work which fileserves to windows (samba) and macs (netatalk) with a raid-6 3.4TB share. (8x 750GB drives)) - hexydes, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8Right, because the average user is trying to rip and re-encode DVDs while creating CAD drawings.
- inactive, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10ive been using linux exclusively, on the desktop for over 2 years
so it must be doing something right
i can play movies, play flash, watch movies in flash ;) play games, including windows games (using wine or cedega)
browser is better than windows
its got all the office tools you need
im not really sure what else it could need
i like photoshop, for now it works in wine, i wish i they would make a native version cause i hate gimp..
its got lots of good media players, more than youd ever need
plays windows formats.. - TheZorch, on 10/12/2007, -4/+12You obviously haven't used Open Office.org recently then. You're incompetence is showing.
- MWeather, on 10/12/2007, -0/+8DVD? Yes. Halo? Yes. Netflix? No. But that's what bittorrent clients/players like Vuse are for.
- Chewie67, on 10/12/2007, -2/+10The concept is the same as Mac users face.
Why doesn't Halo 3 work on this PC?
Why don't my Excel macros work?
Why can't I open this MS Access database?
Until all apps are 100% cross-platform, the dominant OS is going to be the one "ready for the desktop" because what that really means is "won't get my mom calling me with support questions". - betterth, on 10/13/2007, -2/+10Want to get a car? Get a Toyota.
Just because you prefer something, doesn't mean that everyone alive prefers it. - Coldkill, on 10/12/2007, -1/+8Just ignore codehkr, he's a troll
- skyshock1, on 10/12/2007, -0/+7Considering most people these days just use a web-browser and maybe a few Office programs, there's really no need for some insanely clunky OS like Windows. And even the Office programs are starting to go web-based too (Google docs?).
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