What is Digg?Sponsored by Bing
When Should I Book My Flight Home for Christmas? view!
bing.com - Bing predicts if your fare is likely to fall by $50 or more within 7 days. Shockingly accurate.
53 Comments
- WoollyMittens, on 10/10/2007, -1/+14Getting Microsoft rammed down their throats is just as bad.
- Bicep, on 10/10/2007, -2/+15I actually emailed this article to some teachers and a director of a college. People need to know that open standards and technological freedom are the future for technology.
- schestowitz, on 10/10/2007, -7/+19In Soviet Russia, American learns from Russian.
[Did I do this joke right? ;-) ] - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9in Soviet Russia, Jokes do you.
- abadonn, on 10/10/2007, -0/+9Russian education is worlds better in all ways. I moved to America from Russia in 4th grade, and it wasn't until 7th grade that I learned any new math.
- Spr0k3t, on 10/10/2007, -1/+9When was the last time you used Linux? The learning curve is nowhere near what you are suggesting.
- astrojith, on 10/10/2007, -4/+12We should all learn that Open Source is not communism as its understood by people now.
- Spr0k3t, on 10/10/2007, -4/+12I'm happy to say, this article was brought up at the local college board meeting today. The debate got pretty heated.
- happytron, on 10/10/2007, -0/+7For the most part, its only communists that contend that open source has anything to do with communism.
- blackturtleus, on 10/10/2007, -0/+5As an educator who used Linux for a number of years, I have to agree with many statements made in this article. I was constantly attacked for my choice of OS and ultimately I was replaced by someone far less knowledgeable who was willing to use Windows. The irony of ironies is that a former student who attacked me rather vigorously during his high school career admitted to me several years later that I was right and he was wrong. That was after attending UC Riverside for a few years and learning from other computer geeks that Linux is superior to anything that MicroSoft ever created! Now that same student is the only graduate from our school ever to be accepted as a graduate student at MIT! While I feel somewhat vindicated, it still doesn't compensate for all the grief I got back in the 1990's and early 2000's! (BTW, I figured out that the main reason that HS students don't like Linux is that I was able to block various MS vulnerabilities that they knew of that allowed them to cheat on assignments in various ways.)
- inactive, on 10/10/2007, -0/+4 Linux isn't easy?
Who told you that? - JQP123, on 10/10/2007, -2/+5Thanks to our sub-standard education system, most people think communism is history and wouldn't recognize it if it bit them on the ass.
- SubZ3r0, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4freedom and innovation try slavery with rediculous taxes
- JQP123, on 10/10/2007, -1/+4This debate is yet another example of what's wrong with the US public education system --- too many people pushing their own agenda for their own reasons. No one cares or even considers if it will actually improve education in any significant way.
- FeriCyde, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Listening in here to a lot of the discussion:
1) On the ease of use front, you can't convince me these days that Ubuntu is any harder to learn than any modern windows distribution (or OSX for that matter).
2) On the setup front, I've seen major organizational changes with Linux and sometimes the users don't even notice. It's simply not that big of a deal anymore -- especially given things like network terminals and the LTSP (look it up if you haven't heard of it -- I've seen it in action).
3) On the application front -- these days the dearth of free software from a functionality perspective simply rocks. AutoCAD? Ok, maybe you have a point there -- Some kids (some) need to learn AutoCAD so that they can get a job doing drafting and engineering work (someday). That's, what? 1 out of 100 kids? And CAD terminals are not something everyone needs to get a word processing document done, after all.
4) The most telling of all of the comments talks about process: "Technology folks do not realize how foolish they sound to teachers.
Figure out how to use Open Source to increase test scores and produce measurable student learning outcomes.
Once you do this, teachers and school administrator will listen."
AMEN. My comments around Linux *were* about technology -- but in the context of potential. My view is that Windows offers very little potential. Likewise, the potential to make OSS succeed in education lies possibly in some kind of grass-roots teacher community that figures out well-designed classes that leverage OSS elements.
This could be done on top of Windows with Cygwin, possibly, as an alternative to Linux. Just a thought.
Cheers
-=FeriCyde=- - maz2331, on 10/10/2007, -0/+3Actually, open source software is not communist, socialist, or fascist in nature. It is libertarian. It respects every user's rights to enjoy thier own property (computer), while allowing developers to freely choose what they will or will not participate in creating. It is not centralized, controlled, or owned by any one entity but is distributed as market forces dictate, while protecting the contributions of individual developers from misappropriation by those who do not wish to participate fairly in the process.
How's that for an analysis? - datakid, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2I was using http://k12os.org/ at work for a while, and I've gotta admit, you people are living in a hole - it's been around for ages, and for the year that I was on their mailing list, it seemed like every second school in America was using it. Good on them too - one school even had the kids admining the stuff and interviewed Linus.
Of course, nix on the school desktop would be awesome. - djGentoo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2And thanks to decades of anti-Communist propaganda, everyone else wouldn't recognize *real* Communism if it bit *them* on the ass.
- eugene259, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2Change always makes people unhappy so that not a reason to stick to windows. In fact thats I bet M$ loves people like you, advocating to stick to their product lest people will 'get unhappy'. As for bizarre argument of other OS being more locked down so 'students who are interested in poking around will not really get to see any inner workings', WTF? I tell ya, any admin will burn you for suggesting students should hack schools library machines 'to learn their inner workings'. Anyhow the level of restrictions placed on the OS depends on the admin, not the OS. I am sure every OS would have its own quirks, be it windows with its group policies or Linux/X11. What I do agree with you on is that most people are only interested in reading mail, browsing the net and using some office productivity ads and I think Linux/Thunderbird/Firefox/OpenOffice or Linux/KDE apps/OpenOffice is equal/better than Vista-XP/IE/Office and *a lot* cheaper.
- empraptor, on 10/10/2007, -0/+2In Soviet Russia, jokes make you. ?
- lcarsdeveloper, on 10/10/2007, -1/+3Yes, pat yourself on the back for it. And here's me laughing:...........I'm sorry. I tried, but I couldn't make it happen.
- daftman, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Would you care to enlighten us what constituted communism or would you rather drop one-liners here and there attempting to sound intelligent?
- lump1, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Interesting - though am a big Linux supporter, I thought that article was terrible. I think we can make the case for Linux much more persuasively. First of all, the examples are stupid: If a student uses windows and wants to know how web browsers work, she can look at the Firefox code or Webkit code (from Safari). There is lots of open source sofware on Windows, including "tools". I also think the article overstates how much penetration Linux has among the ordinary desktop computer users in other countries. Sure, it's more than in the US, but no country has ever actually done what Russia is threatening to do. And that's another problem: The author acts like it's a done deal, this switch to Linux in Russian schools. But that's not how it works. It's just the first step in bargaining with Microsoft. Who knows what the terms are. Maybe Russia is like "you get off our case about piracy, or we will just switch to Linux and you will cry." And MS probably will get off their case. Then MS will issue a press release saying that Russia did research which showed that the Total Cost of Ownership of a Linux system is actually higher than Vista. This has already happened a dozen times. Let's get over our naivete. Within two years, Indiana schools will be back on Windows, and suddenly find themselves with MS-sponsored big-screen TVs as a thank you. Then, the inevitable press release: The TCO of Linux was higher than Vista so we switched. Of course it's crap, but it's crap supported by money, something that Linux can't compete with.
- Gambit89, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1"Tetris - From Russia with Love", although the analogy isn't completely accurate (if it was intended to be one).
- daftman, on 10/10/2007, -1/+2Alot have changed since 3 years ago. Linux software move much faster than Windows.
- AwesomeAndy, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1The difference in learning one OS versus another is that the vast majority of HOMES are running Windows, so a student doesn't HAVE to learn to use it in school, since they do at home. Yeah, Linux isn't much more difficult to learn, but it does have some minor curve that isn't really necessary. Using your own argument for CAD, how many students will want or need to look at source code? About as many as will need a CAD program. Possibly the same kids, really. Even ignoring that, there's plenty of OSS software on Windows they can take a look at (including web browsers!), as well as many development platforms. Most importantly, outside of the IT world (and people going into IT will likely figure out what they want to use themselves and ideally will be familiar with a multitude of OSes), businesses and governments use Windows and Windows software. I think you'll have a hard time convincing anyone that using OSS solutions will improve anything but the bottom line, since there's really little to nothing Linux can do that Windows CAN'T.
- schestowitz, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Well done. It's the next generation that's important for change. Adults resist change.
- JQP123, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Bottom line: Linux won't improve education in any meaningful way but it will make Linux fans and promoters happy.
- narlzac85, on 10/10/2007, -3/+4Changing the OS that a school uses will have no effect on student development. Students will be using essentially the same applications regardless of OS and due to the secure nature of Linux, you can bet that the OS will be even MORE locked down than windows machines so that students who are interested in poking around will not really get to see any inner workings. No point in pulling the rug out from under people who have a hard enough time understanding windows. Changing the familiar settings on barely-computer-literate teachers will not make them happy. What applications are on the majority of school computers? IE and word, that's really about it except in classrooms that are technology oriented. In that case, the computers will be running some specialty software (3D studio, AutoCAD, Inventor, Photoshop, etc). As much as I love open source software, I think teaching students on software that they won't use in a profession is a bad idea. The real advantage of using open source is that you don't have to pay for it. As long as the school can take care of its own support, then they can save money. That's it, using open source software in a locked-down setting is no different than using what they are already using, especially when they can just install the open source software on the windows machines. As as side bonus of using linux, most of the stupid kids won't be able to run any unauthorized programs without the help of ye olde geeks. Possible chance for the next gen of geeks to get some social skills?
- djGentoo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Lame joke, heard it millions of times before you spammed up every ***** Linux-related page on Digg with it. And I'm not alone.
- Spr0k3t, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Pick your preferred distribution. Any of the top 5 distros will give you a better idea of where Linux is at today. Ubuntu, Fedora, OpenSuSE, Debian, or even Mandriva will give you a fantastic sample of what you have missed. If you have an older computer system, give Xubuntu, DamnSmallLinux, PuppyLinux, or Zenwalk a shot. You can even install some of those on a USB key if you need.
- maz2331, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1The key with Linux is understanding that it's more akin to a toolkit than a "product" like Windows is. It really does allow a decently skilled admin staff to create a software environment that is tailor-made to their requirements without outside pressure to do things "someone else's way". However, that DOES take a good bit of work and talent to actually implement.
- djGentoo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Pure win. Dugg.
- maz2331, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Communism is distinguished by collective ownership of all property and means of production, with the individual completely and totally subjugated to the state. All economic activity is centrally planned and controlled, with prison or death as a punishment for any independant activity not sanctioned by the state.
- JQP123, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1".... since there's really little to nothing Linux can do that Windows CAN'T."
See my comment above. There is one thing it can do that Windows can't --- make Linux fans happy. Which is really all that this "debate" is about. - djGentoo, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1Those dern kids with their shiny toys! Too good to tell me where the "any key" is.
Get off your walker, wake up, and smell the 0xC0FFEE. This is 2007, not 1957. Computers have become an invaluable tool for education (and everything else), like it or not. - JQP123, on 10/10/2007, -0/+1"What agenda?" ---> "intelligent design"
Since you provide one of many possible answers to your own question, maybe you're not totally "daft" after all. - JQP123, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1"Lets debate Linux in schools..."
Yes, lets ... because everyone is tired of the education debate. - djGentoo, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1In Soviet Russia, the material learns YOU!
Please don't kill me, Roy. - daftman, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Come on, you have got to stop this one-liner *****. What agenda? American has the worse education system for K-12. The European and East Asian High School education is much higher than the American. In fact graduating High School in Italy puts you in 2nd year of university. That's how much content they actually teaches in European education system.
America used to be the land of innovation and ideas, yet these days you get morons trying to introduce intelligent design and other ***** to keep our kids dumb. It's much easier to control dumb people than smart people. - daftman, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1Yes Russian education are alot better than American. Would you like to look up how many Russian scientist, mathematicians American stole from Russia? Helluva lot.
I'm not Russian but I do know for a fact that their Mathematics curriculum is so far ahead that American only get taught the same content at University. - daftman, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1OOo air planes. You are so right, Russia don't have air planes.
- JQP123, on 10/10/2007, -1/+1No worry, we have airplane ... you can go back now.
- oneoverzero, on 10/10/2007, -6/+6From Russia with love.
- ActionMemo, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2Stop the technology debate altogether, and start talking teaching and learning.
Technology folks do not realize how foolish they sound to teachers.
Figure out how to use Open Source to increase test scores and produce measurable student learning outcomes.
Once you do this, teachers and school administrator will listen.
Until we make an educational case for Open Source, and back up our claims with demonstrated and measurable instructional improvement (increased test scores, directly attributable to our solutions) we are wasting teachers and school district decision-makers' time with our Open Source debate.
Joseph Chmielewski
How-to know, do, live, dream, think, teach...with insight and imagination. - inactive, on 10/10/2007, -1/+0How about the US public education system stop giving 10 year-old kids computers for them to get on myspace and put an actual book in their hand.
Computers are overrated as educational tools because for the majority of kids they are toys and time wasters. Sure it comes in handy to type up a term paper but research? Make them go to a library the old fashioned way instead of cutting and pasting wikipedia. - poontangpirate, on 10/10/2007, -5/+4May the SOURCE be with you :)
http://www.geekstir.com/pictures/linux-may-the-sou ... - manifestdata, on 10/10/2007, -3/+2Russia is the best country to model any system after. Everyone knows their educational system is the best in the world. /rollseyes
- thisdaysucks, on 10/10/2007, -5/+4this article just proved that russia has a more wonderful educational system than america.
- warriorscot, on 10/10/2007, -3/+1I first used it 3 and a bit years ago, it wasn't difficult but in comparison with Windows or OSX it would be a lie to say it was just as easy to get it up in running in fact it was downright infuriating getting it to dual boot properly. Unix was easy at university but mostly because i didn't have to install it and was already familiar with using the terminal allot of people had bother with it.
-
Show 51 - 53 of 53 discussions
© Digg Inc. 2009
— Content created and posted by Digg users is