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Linux Doesn't Lack Drivers, it Lacks Complete Drivers

apreche.net — Nowadays Linux actually supports the vast majority of PC hardware, but the perception is that it does not. This is because much of the hardware that Linux supports is not supported fully. Sure, your sound card may work, but the surround sound does not. Developers need to shift priorities from quantity to completeness of hardware support.

Who dugg this? Made popular Oct 28, 2007

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  • inactive, on 10/29/2007, -5/+60Most of these drivers are reversed engineered due to lack of documentations from the hardware vendors. Give me a break.
  • twtmc, on 10/31/2007, -4/+57XP supports so little hardware out of the box. But that's not what is being argued here. XP has more complete drivers in total than linux still.
  • thall, on 10/29/2007, -2/+49It's also slightly misleading. It makes it sound like the basement dwelling coders can't be bothered to write product-specific features for Linux when, in fact, it's the manufacturer who can't be bothered to write product-specific features for Linux.

    In the past the manufacturers leaned heavily on the chicken-n-egg problem that Linux was trapped in: Users didn't want Linux because it lacked HW support that they had in Windows, so manufacturers only developed drivers for Windows, which means Linux would not get those drivers and thus not support that HW.

    However, thanks to the slowly growing relationships between manufacturers and Linux developers, the balance is shifting. A lot of manufacturers are more comfortable now with writing Linux drivers or hiring Linux developers to do that for them, while others will at least release HW specs even if only under NDA terms. With more and more manufacturers supporting Linux now, the ones who still refuse will soon find themselves falling behind the competitive edge while the others will pull ahead as they put more effort into their Linux driver development....meaning the completeness this author is looking for is coming soon, but more because of manufacturers' efforts.
  • KyjL, on 10/29/2007, -9/+50Considering XP is about 6 years old, I'd file that under NO *****
  • bmartin, on 10/28/2007, -3/+41Gaming drivers?... ... What the hell are you talking about?
  • lava, on 10/28/2007, -3/+37Yeah, except that in XP I can always go to the manufacturer's website and find a driver based on my product. This isn't an issue of which OS is better, so stop comparing ***** to XP. It's the hardware manufacturer's responsibility to make the drivers. ***** ATI, they stopped supporting my video card ages ago, and I can't get compiz on my thinkpad.
  • 89vision, on 10/31/2007, -25/+56Linux supports more hardware than XP does out of the box.
  • supermanred, on 10/28/2007, -1/+28The flame shields not holding captain, theres nothing I canna do!!
  • geminitojanus, on 10/31/2007, -2/+22"Doesn't matter whose fault it is,"

    Actually it matters most who's fault it is. If your hardware isn't working completely, who are you going to blame, the company who's making it harder for your hardware to work completely, or some Open Source developer who likely isn't paid at all, and it's nothing more than his hobby to sit around and tinker with hardware until he can get it to work?

    The more we put blame on "Linux" for hardware shortcomings, the more the companies get to laugh all the way to the bank. You gave them money to support your hardware, the least they can do is give you specs to the hardware so you can use it to the extent of its abilities. If they're unwilling to do even that much, you should simply take your money elsewhere.
  • JaYBrooks, on 10/29/2007, -1/+19Patents suck. Most of the problem is due to them. I have been using debian for the last 3 years. The last year has been the best year for development and usability. Now with novell willing to make drivers for manufactures for free... You will probably see more complete drivers.
  • bobzibub, on 10/28/2007, -3/+19Buried for pissing me off.
    Most of these drivers were reverse engineered. Companies are so holier-than-thou when it comes to releasing specs to Linux developers.
    For instance, I bought a RaidCore BC4852 based upon good specs + linux "support". Now it is legacy and Broadcom only releases drivers (well they did) for specific kernels/distributions. Red Hat/Fedora. That means if you want to use it the way it was meant to be used, you have to have an intersection between Broadcom's chosen kernel/distribution and say Nvidia's chosen kernel/distribution. (Nvidia does have a system to recompile against the kernel source but what a pain.) Or at least use their choice of distribution. So my fancy raid controller is really a softraid (read crap) controller and the CPU has to pick up the slack. And watch out for that kernel security upgrate-- it'll break your raid driver!

    Blame the crappy hardware companies that think that their ***** is so special. Because of their attitude (not their products) I'll never buy Broadcom's stuff again. Professionally as well as personally.
  • schestowitz, on 10/29/2007, -16/+32This is rarely a problem with Linux. It's the incomplete documentation that is made available. There are more than enough people who work on Linux drivers, but companies snub openness or do half a job.
  • teh_techie, on 10/29/2007, -6/+22Blah blah blah... when it comes down to it, use what makes you feel good on the inside. If that's XP, Vista... or Mac OS X or "ooboontoo", it's all about what you do with it.
  • geminitojanus, on 10/28/2007, -2/+17Here's an outstanding idea: read my comment. If they released the specs to their device, no matter /what/ OS anyone releases, it can be 100% supported, depending on how much work that OS developer wants to put into it. Over 300 Linux developers in a single team are sitting on their hands without any specs in which to develop drivers for.

    So, whether you're OpenBSD, Mac OS X, Linux, even Windows users, whatever OS you pick, if the company provides a competent spec, the drivers will come. The companies aren't willing to intimate on the first part, so we, the users, don't get the second. Thusly, we should start taking our money to companies who are willing to take that first step.
  • XVampireX, on 10/29/2007, -17/+32I dugg this, this is awesome!!!!! AND TRUE!
  • Roger, on 10/28/2007, -4/+19Maybe. But its only partial support while XP usually has full support.
  • earlycj5, on 10/28/2007, -10/+23Rarely a problem? Did you read the article? There are several clear examples given, which I'm afraid I have to agree with. It IS a problem with Linux. The article is not who the fault is with, but rather what the problem is.

    It is frustrating to have completely functional but still lacking hardware support. Doesn't matter whose fault it is, unfortunately it's a problem.
  • AbyssV3, on 10/28/2007, -1/+13Because Linux is made to run on anything, not a specific, limited hardware. Exactly.
    Mac only has so many fanbois because they restrict everything they do. I still like the freedom Linux provides me.
  • bowens44, on 10/28/2007, -0/+11Gaming driver? What is that?
  • secleinteer, on 10/28/2007, -3/+141. MP3's are very easy to get working in Gutsy, so I don't know what to say.
    2. iTunes blows ass anyway, why aren't you using Winamp or Foobar on Windows? As for Linux, Amarok beats all 3 of the media players already mentioned.
    3. Windoze Live Messenger can replaced by Pidgin or Kopete, both of which support more protocols than M$'s bloated piece of ***** IM program.
    4. The GIMP does everything that Photoshop does for people who pirated it and just use it casually. If your e-penis grows when you use a $800 program you got for free, Linux isn't for you.
    5. Like #2, Quicktime blows ass anyway, why aren't you using VLC Media Player or MPlayer on Windows? Both of these programs are available on Linux as well.
    6. K3b does just about everything Nero does, and there's always NeroLinux if that's not enough.
    7. I don't know why the ***** you're using Ares when there's Bittorrent. Check out Azureus or KTorrent. I hear Deluge is pretty good too.
  • bowens44, on 10/28/2007, -0/+11This is not the fault of linux.
  • AbyssV3, on 10/28/2007, -0/+11I have to note, as an avid Linux user.
    This isn't necessarily something Linux users and developers need to look into. Sure, Linux developers make all the hardware drivers for Linux, but /why should they?/
    The main reason XP/Vista has such complete drivers, is because the hardware manufacturers make them, themselves. Most drivers are created by the company that made the hardware, so it's not hard how to figure out how to do all the features. Not to mention, they start programming the driver before the hardware comes out.
    Linux drivers are mostly created by non-payed developers, donating their time for the good of the OS. They get the hardware after it's released, so they're going to take longer to get a driver out there. They didn't make the hardware, so they aren't sure of how to utilize all of the features, and hell, they don't have a massive company giving them incentive to finish (money).
    Honestly, I think it's remarkable that a completely free (as in beer, AND freedom) OS can come THIS far. Most hardware will work, at least to some extent, most of the developers aren't being payed, most developers have no prior knowledge of the product or it's features, and the manufacturers really don't want to help.
    Let's bitch and moan to the manufacturers to make Linux drivers. If they want the high-end users (and maybe soon to be low-end users) to support them, support the user base.
    Digged, non-the-less. Article was well written, and does raise an interesting issue, even if it's guided towards the wrong group.
  • thall, on 10/28/2007, -0/+11Manufacturers make money on their hardware, not the driver, so as long as they followed good modular design and released a spec of how to properly interface to their proprietary design, they don't even have to write a Linux driver themselves because someone else will volunteer to do it for them. And if they don't, their competition will.
  • Noctem, on 10/28/2007, -5/+16"But it's still a valid point... XP is much harder to setup than most distributions of Linux, and that's a reason why many people so easily make the switch."

    That's just a complete fallacy. If I'm missing a driver in XP, I go to the manufacturer's website and download the XP driver executable, MAYBE reboot, and it works. If I'm missing a driver in Linux, or the bundled one doesn't work 100%, very few manufacturers have their own drivers for Linux. So you're stuck hoping there's a driver in a repository somewhere, or good luck trying to compile your own from a source that probably wasn't released from the manufacturer.
  • prammy, on 10/28/2007, -1/+11@brundlefly

    A manufacturer releasing a driver for Linux will help all those 65 flavors because they are all running on the linux kernel. If they release their specs, even other free OSs such as the BSDs, Haiku, even Hurd will benefit from the driver. And so will the manufacturer since people who use Free OSs will buy their hardware.

    This was the case with a few companies before. For example, when DRI was introduced to Xfree86 4.x , Matrox benefited greatly from it because they had a stable, fully working driver for the G400 series of cards.
  • EnterDaMatrix, on 10/29/2007, -2/+12I have a relatively obscure sound card (Chaintech AV-710). I had to do some advanced configuration to set up the SPDIF surround output, but I found the ALSA Wiki and documentation extremely helpful and had it working in about 15 minutes. The drivers and the documentation are out there. What Linux and the rest of the computing world lacks is patient, resourceful, and curious users.
  • geminitojanus, on 10/28/2007, -1/+10Called up ATi and complained?
    Didn't think so.
  • Dan2552, on 10/28/2007, -0/+8Do you mean graphics drivers? Or purhaps some pysics card drivers? Or maybe some joystick/pad/controller drivers? Come on! Give us some clues!
  • jcaino, on 10/29/2007, -0/+8or releasing open api's...
  • shunpo, on 10/30/2007, -3/+11That's quite the wall of text
  • GMorgan, on 10/31/2007, -0/+8There's already a MikeOS out there written purely in real mode ASM. You'll have to pick a different name.
  • MonGuSE1, on 10/28/2007, -0/+7I haven't had time to read all of the comments but I would just like to say that the Linux driver issue is quickly becoming a non issue. Network vendors, audio vendors, graphic vendors and printer vendors are all starting to take linux seriously. They realize that its a growing market and porting drivers to linux also allows them to support OSX easily as well. Next the business arena is always the first to catchup followed by obscure consumer electronics. That is why you see all the small business appliances network, printing and whatnot now incorporating driver support. The one area where driver support lacks is in the low cost market which is ironic because Linux is around because it is open first and cheap second. However the cheap raid cards and modems and network cards lack support in the consumer level for linux but even that is starting to turn. Give it another 3 years to come full circle then complain.
  • Alex2, on 10/28/2007, -2/+9"A developer is trying to make Vista easier to use. Cancel or Allow?"
    Cancel.
  • 9tendo, on 10/28/2007, -3/+10It's lacking a driver in my case. For my arcade stick. I just found out I have to get my device id, hack up and existing driver, and recompile my linux kernel. I guess I'm going to have to learn how to compile a linux kernel...
  • MWeather, on 10/28/2007, -0/+7The Nvidia driver works well enough to run cutting edge games faster than XP does. That's good enough for me. Can't wait for the new Unreal.
  • jellygraph, on 10/28/2007, -4/+11blah blah blah, blame linux for hardware vendors not supporting a market they clearly should be focused on, but are too afraid to the leave the windows world...

    get your prioritities straight... stop blaming linux and start blaming those jackasses who design the hardware and ignore drivers for linux... ok?

    good...
  • madroneDorf, on 10/28/2007, -1/+8You mean it only matters how you DONT use it...
  • Alex2, on 10/31/2007, -6/+12ATI wonder USB TV Tuner?
    Didn't think so.
  • MrDo, on 10/29/2007, -0/+6I doubt that you have tried.
    I have install Ubuntu on Dell, HP & IBM and in all of them it worked incuding wireless. With windows, I had to download drivers for video, network, wireless, audio, bluetooth etc.
  • bieber, on 10/28/2007, -6/+12Well, to be fair, my sound card works without surround sound. But you know, I'd rather my card work without surround than mine not work at all, and someone else's work _with_ surround sound...
  • daldredge, on 10/28/2007, -0/+6But it slows down the adoption of Linux so something needs to be done.
  • srg13, on 10/28/2007, -0/+6"That's just a complete fallacy."

    No it's not - but it's directly dependent on your hardware. For example, on most computers I've installed Ubuntu 7.10 or Fedora on, every peice of hardware has worked out of the box (save for nVidia graphics cards, which are a one click install). For these cases (or at least with intel graphics chipsets), Windows is technically infinitely harder to setup, as it requires you do do anything at all.

    Of course, if your hardware is not supported, then yes, the statement is untrue, and Windows is probably easier to set up.
  • jejones, on 10/28/2007, -0/+6It's your fault, for buying hardware from manufacturers who refuse to provide full documentation of their hardware to allow the development of Open Source drivers without the need to reverse engineer. If the manufacturer doesn't do this, don't buy their products AND TELL THEM THEY'VE LOST YOUR BUSINESS AND WHY.
  • Shootfast, on 10/28/2007, -0/+6It's pretty easy to compile, just takes a while. It's a pain in the ass if you forget to add something though :S
  • Genius16, on 10/28/2007, -1/+6iTunes/WiMP = Amarok. Trust me, they need to port Amarok to windows its so good. (I hear they are?) mp3 support works fine in linux, if you install the correct (non free) package. windows live messenger sucks if you ask me. but there are several great messaging programs that support multiple protocols (Pidgin, formally Gaim, is one of the better ones and its cross platform) Photoshop=Gimp (gnu image manipulation. its not AS good as photoshop, but unless you make a living using it you probably wont notice a diff) Nero=again, several alternatives. Gnonebaker, K3B, etc. they all work well and have similar features.

    also, a standard executable program is already available. google posix its about as close to "standard" operating system executables as you can get. linux is almost posix compliant (one version was at once, but that was a while ago)
  • JaYBrooks, on 10/28/2007, -3/+8One thing at a time. The drivers for nvidia and ati are getting better. I think we will have some decent drivers with in the next 3-4 months.
  • aaronm67, on 10/29/2007, -1/+6Go downgrade to kernel 2.4.0 (a 6 year old linux kernel) and tell me how much hardware is supported.

    I wont wait for a response, because in all likelihood you wont even be able to boot.
  • JaYBrooks, on 10/28/2007, -0/+5There are to many issues for USB TV tuners. I have a WinTV USB one that doesn't work. Its not a big deal for me. I have a box of ati tuner cards that work fine. Development for any new non digital broadcast or cable card digitizers is pointless. At least in the states it is.
  • brundlefly76, on 10/31/2007, -5/+10Its a combination of basement coders not being able to prioritize features (because their voluntary contribution lacks meaningful reward past feature 'x'), and manufacturers not being able to make a business case for paying expensive developers to write complete drivers for an OS used by less then 2% of the world's PC using population.
  • NeoPlatonist, on 10/31/2007, -4/+9I was planning to switch from XP Pro to Ubuntu and I had spent a good part of the day getting it set up. When I got to installing the drivers for my firewire sound card, I found out that there are no linux drivers and there are not likely to ever be any for this card (M-Audio Firewire Audiophile). Looks like I will be going back to XP Pro.
    Until every piece of hardware works as well on Linux as it does on XP, I will be sticking to XP. Sure, XP has its problems but at least it works.
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