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72 Comments
- TheWindBlows, on 11/05/2008, -0/+27What states are implementing this.
- cannonball, on 11/05/2008, -2/+28Computer uses in High School:
1. Type a paper and print it.
2. Access internet for research.
Am I missing anything? Do we really need to spend money on software to do those things? - DangerCollie, on 11/05/2008, -6/+28It's good news but I'm not sure about the choice of SUSE. For an educational system, that distro would be way down my list. The enterprise management tools are nice but you don't really need them in *nix world...if you know what you're doing.
My only fear is this type of enterprise management is aimed at former Windows administrators. Putting a Linux system in the hands of MCSE's is rarely successful. On the flip side, in a educational setting you're already used to supporting everything under the sun, so maybe this wasn't a bad place to start. It'll be interesting to watch. - inactive, on 11/05/2008, -0/+21Teachers hardly know how to use Windows. So, seeing how Linux GUI isn't that different I would say its a small change.
- gzim, on 11/05/2008, -0/+21Everything you said is wrong, quite literally.
- advix, on 11/05/2008, -2/+22Every cloud has a silver line.... This is a big chance for massive Linux adoption. Nice to hear about it.
- 4DFX, on 11/05/2008, -0/+16They won't have to. Every major Linux distribution comes with some kind of solitaire implementation.
- jvincent08, on 11/05/2008, -0/+15I don't think any kids need to be taught how to click on the Firefox or OpenOffice icons on the screen.
I mean really, what else are the kids going to be using them for that they need to be retaught (as if they were really taught how to use them in the first place)? - JakeW, on 11/05/2008, -0/+13I hate how you say it's propaganda to support a free operating system, so that school systems can save thousands of dollars to do.. oh, I don't know, several other things like new books, higher salaries for teachers, better food, etc.
- mysticalone, on 11/05/2008, -2/+15March of the Penguins. Morgan Freeman will be narrating the instructions for every school.
- 4321234, on 11/05/2008, -0/+10Who will protect the children from the Microsoft death squads?
- 4DFX, on 11/05/2008, -0/+9Nobody gives a ***** about what you think. Especially if this is the most intelligent comment you were able to put together.
- cubicledrone, on 11/05/2008, -0/+8Let the students run the network. They'll know everything about Linux in six months.
- JessicaSarahS, on 11/05/2008, -2/+10It's about time! And I love the name of the initiative. Free the Penguins!!
- CrackyJSquirrel, on 11/05/2008, -1/+9One, Two.... DOH!!!
- w3rdn4, on 11/05/2008, -0/+7I have been dreaming of the wide distribution of linux through out the educational arena as a means to cut budget spending so that young children who are starving can afford their lunch meals.
- bassman12593, on 11/05/2008, -0/+7Hell, the teachers who work in the computer labs in my school can't even get a publisher document to print correctly.
- inactive, on 11/05/2008, -0/+6Two words: lmfalafel
- 0xception, on 11/05/2008, -0/+6Swing and a miss.
- skyshock1, on 11/05/2008, -0/+6Hopefully those in more poor regions of the US. They need the educational experience now more than ever.
- liljay2k, on 11/05/2008, -1/+7Digital photography, CAD drawings, Oregon Trail.
Who says we're spending money on software. There are many open-source applications. FT link in the A: "Experience OpenOffice.org, Firefox®, Novell® GroupWise®, Evolution™, instant messaging, photo and music management software plus hundreds of free Linux-based education applications available on the web. " - Flamekebab, on 11/05/2008, -1/+6So using a similar open word processing program won't be a difficult transition then, will it?
- insanebrain, on 11/05/2008, -0/+5Dumb ass . .. also 2 words.
- insanebrain, on 11/05/2008, -0/+5They will switch to Kolitaire ;)
- insanebrain, on 11/05/2008, -0/+5Don't feed the trolls..
- ethana2, on 11/05/2008, -0/+5Gnome and KDE games are usually head and shoulders above Windows games. Not only are there more of theme, they've got better artwork, more features, etc.
I LOVE my gnomines.. - skipdog172, on 11/05/2008, -0/+5um, you don't need to "know anything about linux". do you think teachers "know anything about osx". no. they know how to click icons and run the programs they want.
- mk3k, on 11/05/2008, -1/+5Kinda the problem with Linux in general. Nobody is sure what distro to use or windows manager.
- inactive, on 11/05/2008, -0/+4***** aye
- growler1, on 11/05/2008, -0/+4I teach English at a Community College, and I just updated to Intrepid Ibex.
I am, however, the only person in my department who dual boots on their work computer. - inactive, on 11/05/2008, -13/+1729, thats all you need to know.
--Linux propaganda team - pHreaksYcle, on 11/06/2008, -0/+4Yes they do. ***** idiot.
- inactive, on 11/05/2008, -0/+3I don't think you know how that stuff works.
- JakeW, on 11/05/2008, -0/+3@danny37415 -- That's called a proxy. Everything coming in, and going out is monitored. So Xbox's connection is blocked, porn on your Linux/Mac is blocked and your PSP does not have permission to log on, because of user privileges.
- bigbangbuddha, on 11/06/2008, -0/+3For anyone interested in linux, heres a great site to see what all the noise is about:
http://www.whylinuxisbetter.net/ - hieveryone, on 11/06/2008, -0/+3opendns! free filtering!
- Frostek, on 11/05/2008, -1/+4Also, Frozen Bubble is pretty addictive too!
- MicrosoftBob, on 11/05/2008, -0/+3It's not irrelevant when it comes to cost. I think that is the whole point of the initiative.
- oblique63, on 11/05/2008, -0/+3http://xkcd.com/462/
- offrdbandit, on 11/05/2008, -5/+8The real question is, how many teachers know enough about linux to teach the kids how to use it?
I would say very few. - hieveryone, on 11/06/2008, -0/+2The same could be said about teachers and computers in general. How many teachers know enough about (fill in the blank...Vista, OS X, Linux) to teach the kids how to use it? Especially considering that most students alread know more about computers than the teachers do.
- rgrcabbage, on 11/05/2008, -0/+2Maybe, but any technologist worth their salt should know enough about it to be a viable option for teacher and student training. Teachers are like kids, they fear the unknown but once they see everything that it does for them, they take to it like honey. I for one am extremely interested in having an opportunity like this for my elementary building.
- smotpoker, on 11/06/2008, -0/+2@gee
#1 - The cost of relicensing is quite often equal or less than training/migrating
#2 - With MS you are forced to upgrade hardware more often, which over time costs more on top of licensing
#3 - There is almost no retraining required for desktop/workstation use. Admin installs programs, you click and run them. Alternatives nearly always function quite similar to their proprietary counterparts.
#4 - I don't know wtf you are talking about retooling PCs. If you are implying some/most hardware would need to be upgraded or replaced, you are sorely mistaken. There is way more industry/production hardware supported way better in Linux than in windows and most PC hardware is supported as well. The most common exceptions are internal modems, 3d graphics support and wireless - which are mostly irrelevant in academic environments.
#5 - All of the software and server alternatives that are fully interoperable with proprietary solutions allow for an infrastructure to be migrated as slowly as you want. You don't have to hire a massive number of linux experts to run in there and do it all in one day. A single person can do it one system at a time over the course of months if wanted/necessary.
MS techs/consultants/zealots go out of their way to make FOSS look highly expensive but it most certainly isn't. Sure, there can be up front costs but nothing like you suggest and they are usually mitigated by the massive saving from licenses, maintenance and upgrades. For the most part it doesn't require more than *maybe* a week of training for admins (way less if they are familiar with unix variants and/or actually have real knowledge of how computers work (unlike most MS admins)) and a tutorial video for desktop users. - hieveryone, on 11/06/2008, -0/+2Installed Ubuntu in all of the high school's computers labs where I work. Students like it, are still able to do all their work (word processing, spreadsheets, web design, web research), and have been asking where to get Ubuntu. Good and thorough planning is the key to making a switch to a new OS. This eliminates compatibility issues and maximizes efficiency. My guess is your school district didn't do enough planning before implementing the Apple one-to-one program.
- matthekc, on 11/09/2008, -0/+1While I don't think any student should not be educated to use windows. Even if Microsoft said windows is no longer profitable after 7 however unlikely; it would still be a legacy system for about a quarter of a century. Look at the devices still running 3.11 like atm's.
Teaching everyone Linux or BSD is good because it gives them a Unix perspective on which to compare the way things are done and why. I wish late grade school or early high school taught more computer fundamentals. For example the theory of how a pc works, what an os does, intro to networking, and an intro to programming. I know I took computing in high school and was disappointed to find it was a Microsoft office class. That was about a decade ago but I would be surprised if things were any better - ShyGuy91284, on 11/06/2008, -0/+1Not for long. Microsoft would probably give their software away to public schools for free before they let that happen on a reasonably large scale. Most people tend to like to do things with minimal effort. Using multiple types of computers requires effort to learn. If people use Linux more, they may decide to use it at home for their lives, and recommend it for use where they enter the workforce. I don't think Microsoft is the kind of company that is as concerned with short term sales to educational institutions as they are with long term sales throughout the lives of their potential customers that dislike change when they have a say.
- smotpoker, on 11/06/2008, -0/+1"It's just that the cost of retraining and retooling their Windows infrastructures to use FOSS would far exceed the savings. That, and, educational institutions try to "prepare" their students for the "real world", so they teach the most common platform and its tools."
That's what your local MS rep told you? There are a lot of companies and governments who would disagree. - MasteRR, on 11/07/2008, -0/+1"But some of them won't make it."
- smotpoker, on 11/05/2008, -0/+1They chose SuSE specifically because of their Microsoft affiliation is my bet. Microsoft gives schools incentives to use/teach their products and have for years (which is part of the reason I didn't major in computer science - *no* Unix courses of any type at colleges anywhere within two hours of my house. All courses were taught using MS from an Windows paradigm and much was not applicable to my career choice)
This is part of the reason so many people were against the Novell deal (and/or Novell's acquisition of SuSE) to begin with. MS used dishonesty and threats to bully/scare Linux vendors and Linux-based companies to buy licenses from them. Now Novell, one of their victims, IIRC, has teamed up with them to sell some of those licenses/support.
I would guess a few possibilities:
#1 - somehow they objectively decided SuSE was the best distribution to use
#2 - MS or SuSE had representatives convince them they needed licenses to avoid lawsuits (wouldn't be the first time they lied about stolen code and the need for useless licenses)
#3 - MS threatened to remove some of their discounts/incentives if they didn't use a MS approved vendor
I may seem like I need a tin foil hat, but I see no logical reason why they wouldn't favor a distribution geared specifically at education such as edubuntu, lorma or edumorphix. SuSE is supposed to be tailored to corporate environments rather than educational ones. - smotpoker, on 11/06/2008, -0/+1My mom is a teacher, she was interested in Linux to some degree since I first told her about it years ago. She loved the underlying philosophy of freedom and spreading knowledge. Like you said though, she was worried she would not be able to use it for more than playing gnome games, lack of compatibility with some of her current software and her ability to get used to running to OSes at once. As a result, she never switched (for anything more than playing games) until she quit last year.
Like you said, she was a bit apprehensive about learning a new OS but she was more concerned with having to know two and getting the details confused. Once she knew she didn't need Windows for work, she switched entirely and was doing nearly the exact same things immediately (I had already had it installed and waiting for her).
I had to show her how to use synaptic first instead of searching google when she wanted to find/try new software and tell her the names of some alternative apps (most of which could be determined from menu entries and and synaptic) but that was about it.
Personally, I think that many/most can use it (though maybe not administrate) as easily as any other OS and it is a lot harder to break a Linux system than XP. I also feel the use of Windows is the precise reason why most people do not understand the fundamentals of computer operations. I know I had no clue how networking worked before I pulled myself out of the windows adapter paradigm and proprietary developers often intentionally shroud how their software works in various ways. Simply being exposed to information is very likely to lead to learning some/most of it over time, but when there is no information besides "Error code #114" nothing ever gets learned, there is no hint how to fix the problem or affirmation/correction of intuited or learned concepts/knowledge.. -
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